Why the Retired Expat Exodus to Vietnam seems very real

By Dan Cheeseman

 

 

Living in Thailand for many of us Expats is what dreams are made of. With a beautiful climate, food and wonderful Thai people, it is paradise. But everything has its tipping point yet we don’t really know what an expats tipping point was when it came to upping sticks and leaving.

 

There has been a whole number of factors in recent times that has made living in Thailand more challenging, more so for retired expats; with the strengthening of the baht and weakening of domestic currencies causing a serious financial issue. This shifting of valuations has meant Thailand is no longer a cheap place to retire.

 

I have tried to look for clues of evidence as to what is really happening, and, although some of the data below are questionable, the sum total does help give an indication as to what’s maybe happening.

 

Survey Insight

Back in August 2018, Thaivisa.com conducted an Expat Survey which attracted over 1,400 respondents. If you were a Brit living in Thailand it was 42 baht to the pound back then, so the lowest it had ever been.  40% of all respondents said they had considered leaving Thailand in the last 12 months due to economic hardship. If that was the case then it could be argued, the figure is even higher now. It is also a fair assumption to believe that of that 40% considering leaving, some have already left Thailand for pastures new.

 

The survey also revealed a staggering 1 in 4 (26%) survived on less than 45k baht a month. Using the UK versus Thai baht exchange rates it means with further polarization of rates that 45k baht back then is nearer 40k baht today – in less than 12 months. Something has to give.

 

Full story: https://danaboutthailand.com/2019/08/23/why-the-expat-exodus-to-vietnam-is-very-real/

 

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I must admit, I'm getting close to that tipping point, and so are most of my British friends, but we've built a comfortable life here and it's just not quite bad enough to leave - yet.

With the exchange rate with the aussie dollar I am now having to survive on under 36,000 baht from my age pension which s going to send me back in January when my next extension is due .

 

My step daughter got finance for a pickup for me in 2017 on 0% deposit (in her name) and the payments are 15,600 baht a month which she is go to be responsible for once I go back and I feel really bad for her , I will have to send her some money every month to try and help but considering the prices of things back home it wont be very much maybe only 5,000 baht per fortnightly payment .

Leaving is not really an option fo me. I have a good wife of over 10 years, an adopted son who is closer to me than most biological sons, and a niece who is more like a daughter, who tells everyone I’m her dad.

 

I have no family or friends left back in the States, so there is nothing back there for me. Leaving Thailand, even for Vietnam, is not really an option for me. I’m over 70, and have had a minor stroke, which makes getting around difficult at best most of the time. You could say I’m “stuck” here, and in some ways you would be correct. But with an income more than double needed for retirement here, it is a comfortable “stuck”.

If they up the anti again, I’ll just switch from Retirement extension to Marriage, A bit more of a hassle, but not unbearable,

Went there for a holiday a few years back, enjoyed it, but I will leave it as a holiday destination.

Didnt see in my time there, anything that would make me choose to live there over Thailand.

42 baht to the pound, the lowest it has ever been??? I guess the writer of the article was not around in the early 1980's !!

re: exchange rates - there's a simple solution - earn some money in baht to fill the hole, et voila, problem solved

 

many do & many have said goodbye to their problems.. put those wives and girlfriends to work boys!

 

 

58 minutes ago, quandow said:

I must admit, I'm getting close to that tipping point, and so are most of my British friends, but we've built a comfortable life here and it's just not quite bad enough to leave - yet.

I first came to S.E. Asia to find a place to retire to. Visited most countries in the region but the more I visited, Thailand became a no brainer for me.....at the time.

 

If I had to make the same choice today, it would probably be Vietnam.

 

However, like you, I've made a comfortable life here, house, car and most of all family. In reality, the only way I'll be leaving Thailand is in a box.

Count me as one of the ones who will be leaving soon. Just need to sell the house and I'll be on the next plane out. I've been here for over 12 years now and back when I first came here, I couldn't say enough good things about Thailand. I have plenty of monthly income to qualify for immigration's requirements so, it's not the money that's the problem for me. It's more the attitude of the Thai government towards us expats. I can't help but feel like I'm being treated like some sort of low life criminal who's trying to scam Thailand. They seem to be sitting around behind closed door meetings trying to come up with new ways to harass us. The government has given me the feeling that they really don't want me living here full time. They just want me to be a wealthy tourist that comes to Thailand and drops loads of cash into their pockets and then leaves within 2 or 3 weeks.

Well, they got part of their wish with me about leaving, but I won't be back as a tourist, ever again. 

45 minutes ago, Bobsuruncle said:

I've been here for over 12 years now and back when I first came here, I couldn't say enough good things about Thailand. I have plenty of monthly income to qualify for immigration's requirements so, it's not the money that's the problem for me.

I've been here just a little longer and back then it WAS the perfect dream. I could go out with 5000 baht in my pocket, have a decent meal, do a short time, then go out drinking until the sun came up and still have change left when I poured myself back into my room. LOS has changed and honestly, I haven't seen any for the better of us expats.

1 minute ago, quandow said:

LOS has changed and honestly, I haven't seen any for the better of us expats.

The only things that I've noticed, in Pattaya, is the availability of decent quality Western food. And shopping malls. And better hotels although YMMV on that.

Until there's a soi 6 or nana plaza or cowboy or something similar.. ain't gonna happen

1 hour ago, Just1Voice said:

Leaving is not really an option fo me. I have a good wife of over 10 years, an adopted son who is closer to me than most biological sons, and a niece who is more like a daughter, who tells everyone I’m her dad.

 

I have no family or friends left back in the States, so there is nothing back there for me. Leaving Thailand, even for Vietnam, is not really an option for me. I’m over 70, and have had a minor stroke, which makes getting around difficult at best most of the time. You could say I’m “stuck” here, and in some ways you would be correct. But with an income more than double needed for retirement here, it is a comfortable “stuck”.

If they up the anti again, I’ll just switch from Retirement extension to Marriage, A bit more of a hassle, but not unbearable,

Switch to a Marriage Extension as soon as you can;  it's nowhere near as daunting as some people will have you believe.   I've been on one for 12 years, renewed last week , all done in 25 minutes.

9 minutes ago, AllThaiedUp said:

Until there's a soi 6 or nana plaza or cowboy or something similar.. ain't gonna happen

I totally agree.

Those type venues at similar availability and a few more golf courses and I would consider just about anyplace in SEA.

Angeles City is close.

Vietnam doesn't have a retirement visa and doesn't offer long term residence security. If they ever do and my guess they never will, I reckon the financial requirements would be prohibitive for most. 

Cambodia does have a retirement option but then you're living in Cambodia. 

So I don't see Vietnam as a "real" expat retirement option. At least yet. Sorry. 

As a place to hang up for a year or a few years. Sure, sounds pretty good. But that's not what everyone is looking for. 

20 minutes ago, quandow said:

. LOS has changed and honestly, I haven't seen any for the better of us expats.

And how has your home country changed and made it better for you or others?

If we had the paperwork for our adopted daughter, me and the wife would sell our uk house that we currently use as income combined with my early pension, buy a house more northern in the UK - bigger and better than my 2 bed southern - and have enough money in the bank to show uk immigration. But as it is I am having to live in Thailand and suck it up for a while longer. That's life.

 

I know many people struggling to stay who take care of Thai families and have enough to do so, BUT are falling foul of income regulations due to high baht level.

59 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Vietnam doesn't have a retirement visa and doesn't offer long term residence security. If they ever do and my guess they never will, I reckon the financial requirements would be prohibitive for most. 

Cambodia does have a retirement option but then you're living in Cambodia. 

So I don't see Vietnam as a "real" expat retirement option. At least yet. Sorry. 

As a place to hang up for a year or a few years. Sure, sounds pretty good. But that's not what everyone is looking for. 

Vietnamese are closer to the Chinese than the Thais. They value education highly and are fast moving forward. Inevitably the prices will rise there too. If anyone is making plans for Vietnam longer than 5 years and factoring today's prices, they are fooling themselves.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Vietnam doesn't have a retirement visa and doesn't offer long term residence security. If they ever do and my guess they never will, I reckon the financial requirements would be prohibitive for most. 

Cambodia does have a retirement option but then you're living in Cambodia. 

So I don't see Vietnam as a "real" expat retirement option. At least yet. Sorry. 

As a place to hang up for a year or a few years. Sure, sounds pretty good. But that's not what everyone is looking for. 

Dutch people I know are heading out to live in the Philippines. Just having hassles ( normal) in selling their houses.

3 hours ago, keith101 said:

With the exchange rate with the aussie dollar I am now having to survive on under 36,000 baht from my age pension which s going to send me back in January when my next extension is due .

 

My step daughter got finance for a pickup for me in 2017 on 0% deposit (in her name) and the payments are 15,600 baht a month which she is go to be responsible for once I go back and I feel really bad for her , I will have to send her some money every month to try and help but considering the prices of things back home it wont be very much maybe only 5,000 baht per fortnightly payment .

Why did she buy a pickup truck she could not afford the repayments on? Did you support her decision. Frankly I would send her nothing and if the car is repossessed, well so be it. 

1 minute ago, legend49 said:

Dutch people I know are heading out to live in the Philippines. Just having hassles ( normal) in selling their houses.

Yeah, but it's the Philippines.

So far nobody has mentioned Bali. Financial requirements are about the same, but a lot less hassle with immigration. These are 1 year retirement visas. I live elsewhere in Indonesia. I am married to an Indonesian. First one year visa my wife sponsors me. She has to have money in the bank, not me. Second one year visa was just an extension. Again my wife is my sponsor. Third visa is for five years. Fourth visa is also five years. But once you are past the 10 year mark you no longer need sponsorship from your wife. Somewhat expensive but you can then get a lifetime visa. You get a multi exit reentry visa. There is no 90 day reporting. There is no TM30. And you get your own special line at airports for immigration. I go through immigration much faster than my wife as generally there is no queue for me. Some of you will be thinking Muslim country etc. Certainly Indonesia is not perfect. However, I lived in Thailand 32 years. I thought that I would miss living there. I do not. There is a much more wholesome feeling living in Indonesia. You do not feel like you are just a cash cow. Take holiday to Indonesia and check it out. 

For me is not about the exchange rate. I dont feel welcome here and I don't want to reward a country that treats me poorly by spending money here. For all I care this government can shove it up their <deleted>. My lease is up in 5 months and the count down for me has begun. 

Vietnam more precisely Ho Chi Minh City has been on my radar for years and it has been developing fast. 

1 minute ago, 3421abc said:

For me is not about the exchange rate. I dont feel welcome here and I don't want to reward a country that treats me poorly by spending my money here. For all I care this government can shove it up their ass.

Vietnam more precisely Ho Chi Minh City has been on my radar for years and it has been developing fast. 

????

 

 

 

imo it's all about the money, the rest of the reasons are window dressing..

4 hours ago, keith101 said:

My step daughter got finance for a pickup for me in 2017 on 0% deposit (in her name) and the payments are 15,600 baht a month which she is go to be responsible for once I go back and I feel really bad for her , I will have to send her some money every month to try and help but considering the prices of things back home it wont be very much maybe only 5,000 baht per fortnightly payment .

You have to be kidding me. You would stick your step daughter with a huge debt after she did you a favor? Man up and pay the car off, or send her the full payments. Damn dude how low can you go?

2 hours ago, AllThaiedUp said:

Until there's a soi 6 or nana plaza or cowboy or something similar.. ain't gonna happen

 

personally i find all that intellectual stimulation hard to bare

Will hang on for another 5% currency drop—then leave.  First, to a beachfront hotel in Vietnam for a couple of months.  If the currency doesn’t recover—will consider permanent status, or return to USA.  Have house, truck and boat here—so will always return for a while...

When the local currency hit 40 to sterling, I asked the gf to find some work. She found a job 15k a month and I reduced her allowance from 30k to 5k. A little harsh!

With her now working we stopped going out daily for lunch and dinner. This saved another 15k or so.

I also made an one off payment and settled the finance on her bike and picked up another 3,500 a month. 

 

Overall I reduced my outgoing's by approx 43k and she now generates 15k. 

 

 

the chemicals agent orange sprayed on vietnam will be there for centuries to come

 

dioxin is not on my menu to try with local meat or veggies

 

pesticides and herbicides in thailand are already bad enough

 

if I COULD leave, with my daughter, I would be on the next plane to homeland...