Sub Panel Help

[RideJocky]

We hired a guy to relocate our washer and dryer, and he abandoned the electric portion after taking it apart and relocating the panel.

 

I am trying to get it back together and have some questions. The panel provides power to:

1. Front-loading washer

2. Dryer

3. Shower water heater

 

This box was installed and worked fine for about six months before we tried to have it moved.

 

It looks to me like the double breaker is working as a main breaker feeding the two single breakers via the connecting strip on the top. Is this correct?

 

If so, the hot wire in should come up through the inside leg of the double breaker. Is this correct?

 

One bar on top is for neutral, and the other is for earth, correct?

 

I am not sure if the outside leg of the double breaker should be for the shower, and one of the single breakers for the washer and the other for the dryer, or if the outside leg should be left empty and one of the singles used for the washer and dryer and the other for the shower-heater.

 

Will the double breaker trip if the combined load on both legs is 32 amps?

 

Any recommendations on how best to set this up?

 

All the wire is 4mm^2

 

Thanks!

 

 

[RideJocky]

To be clear, I think the wires were moved around inside the box during the relocation...

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, RideJocky said:

To be clear, I think the wires were moved around inside the box during the relocation...

 

They almost certainly were as the left hand pole of the 2 pole breaker has no feed to it and is currently doing nothing. Why you would have a 2 pole breaker as there is no neutral in the box is strange

 

1 hour ago, RideJocky said:

It looks to me like the double breaker is working as a main breaker feeding the two single breakers via the connecting strip on the top. Is this correct?

Yes.

1 hour ago, RideJocky said:

One bar on top is for neutral, and the other is for earth, correct?

That isn't how it's being used at the moment but usually yes.

The line connection on the right bar is superfluous.

 

Its a bit of a mess with no visible neutral that should be on the left of the 2 pole breaker.

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[RideJocky]

That isn't how it's being used at the moment but usually yes.

The line connection on the right bar is superfluous.

 

Its a bit of a mess with no visible neutral that should be on the left of the 2 pole breaker.

 

 

 

Both L & N were red. There is no power going to the panel now.

[bankruatsteve]

The double breaker is the "main" breaker for the other two circuit breakers.  If no power to the box, why is there a wire going into the bottom of the main breaker?  And where does it come from?

 

Where will the power come from if you activate the box?

 

Edit:  Yes, the main breaker is a C-curve 32 amp breaker.

Edited September 14, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[bankruatsteve]

After enlarging the photo, my guess is that the 3 wires coming in at the top are L, N, E from your primary box.  The L should be connected to a breaker in the primary box.  If that is the case, then the N should be connected to the left side of the main (double) breaker and NOT going directly to the power point.  You would want to verify that with a meter before switching things on.

[RideJocky]

The double breaker is the "main" breaker for the other two circuit breakers.  If no power to the box, why is there a wire going into the bottom of the main breaker?  And where does it come from?
 
Where will the power come from if you activate the box?
 
Edit:  Yes, the main breaker is a C-curve 32 amp breaker.

The wires going into the box have been cut, but they originated from a breaker downstairs in another sub panel.

My plan is to rewire the panel, then splice it back in.

Assuming the L & N should go to the bottom of the double breaker:

32A single breaker should feed the shower with 4mm black wire

16A single breaker should feed the receptacles for washer and dryer with 2.5mm black wire

N leg of the double breaker should feed the N bar with 4mm white

4mm white wire should go from N bar to shower

2.5mm white should go from N bar to receptacles

4mm green should go to the earth bar, with 4mm green going to shower, 2.5 mm green going to receptacles and to the stud in the bottom of the panel

Does that all sound correct?

[bankruatsteve]

Looks good to me.  ????

 

Please confirm the ground/earth green wire actually connects to ground/earth at some point.

Edited September 15, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[RideJocky]

Looks good to me.  [emoji41]
 
Please confirm the ground/earth green wire actually connects to ground/earth at some point.

The ground looks to be connected. I have a plug-checker that I hope will confirm this once it’s wired up...

Thanks!

[bankruatsteve]

Regarding color:  Those appear to be 4mm^2 red.  (?)  If so, you could convert them to black/white by using black/white tape at the ends.  No need to run new wire.

[Crossy]

Yeah, I concur with the above. At least the ground wire isn't red.

 

[RideJocky]

Regarding color:  Those appear to be 4mm^2 red.  (?)  If so, you could convert them to black/white by using black/white tape at the ends.  No need to run new wire.

Thanks for the tip. The only “new” wire I’m going to run are the short pieces in the panel and from the panel to the shower, as it is too short and has been cut.

[carlyai]

I think you really need to sort out another colour than red for the neutral somehow, first.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[bankruatsteve]

Also, try to shove that L incomer into the breaker a bit more.  That's too much wire exposed for my liking.

[RideJocky]

Also, try to shove that L incomer into the breaker a bit more.  That's too much wire exposed for my liking.

Thanks, I’m planning to rewire it, and will make sure the fit-up is much better.

[RideJocky]

Does anyone know what thread/nut this stud is/takes?

 

 

 

Considering the wire is 4mm^2 I’m guessing the dia. of the stud is 6mm

[bankruatsteve]

5mm would be my guess. The diameter of the wire is 2.26mm (if my math is correct) Do you plan on using it for something?

Also, it looks like that breaker is cracked. Maybe not an issue but should probably be careful when re-seating the L.

Edited September 15, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[RideJocky]

5mm would be my guess. The diameter of the wire is 2.26mm (if my math is correct) Do you plan on using it for something?
Also, it looks like that breaker is cracked. Maybe not an issue but should probably be careful when re-seating the L.

I had planned to tie a ground to it.

The plastic on the breaker does not seem to be cracked, the housing splits on that centerline. I may crazy-glue it back together once I pull it out.

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, RideJocky said:

 

I had planned to tie a ground to it. 

 

But, that's what the ground bar/buss is for. Whatever. ????

[Crossy]

16 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

But, that's what the ground bar/buss is for. Whatever. ????

 

It is an essential safety ground for the metalwork of the board, the ground bus does not appear to connect to the casework..

[bankruatsteve]

41 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

It is an essential safety ground for the metalwork of the board, the ground bus does not appear to connect to the casework..

Oh.  That doesn't make sense to me. But there you go. 

[RideJocky]

Oh.  That doesn't make sense to me. But there you go. 

Yeah, one would think the buss would be grounded to the metal box, but it does not appear to be.

[RideJocky]

Oh.  That doesn't make sense to me. But there you go. 

Apparently you were right, while it didn’t look like it, the ground bar is screwed directly to the box via the center screw.

[RideJocky]

Go the panel and receptacles relocated and rewired:



And the handy-dandy says it’s okay...

[RideJocky]

The “empty” breaker conduit connector will go to the shower...

 

 

 

[RideJocky]

Just noticed the tester said 115-125VAC. Bummer that. The package said what I thought was 300 max...



Guess it’ll work ‘till it doesn’t...

[Crossy]

10 hours ago, RideJocky said:

Guess it’ll work ‘till it doesn’t...

 

It will probably be just fine. You may want to check it still indicates correctly by wiring up a "faulty" outlet.

 

[RideJocky]

 
It will probably be just fine. You may want to check it still indicates correctly by wiring up a "faulty" outlet.
 

Works fine on a incorrectly wired receptacle, so I imagine it’s okay, although probably not a good idea to leave it plugged in fo a long time....