It finally happened! Denied entry at BKK on METV

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, tlandtday said:

not entirely true.  the reason is called a vacation whether it happens for an extended period.  i would be more concerned about the masses of "tourists" many young and broke arriving from china and india and trying to start businesses here and probably never reporting and on overstay.  

Focus on the Chinese and Indians and let White people do as they please ?

   Those days of White privilege are long gone 

[onera1961]

Why would you take another chance????? They don't want you there! Perhaps it time to move on. 
Last I checked Thailand was not the only country in the world. 
Dont understand why people are putting themselves thru all this aggravation.

The lure is very powerful. Can't you see all the honey bees all around Thailand which probably is not easily and economically available to farangs in their home counties at 40+ age. If available why they would come to Thailand - a third world corrupt, environmentally bad with crazy drivers all over the country

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[donnacha]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

She turned my baggage inside out and then even asked me if I had child or animal porn on my laptop and took it away to check it.

Your denials clearly didn't convince her. Some guys just look animal porny ????

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[Old Croc]

16 minutes ago, donnacha said:

36 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

It would be very surprising if Thailand is still in the proverbial abacus era.

Considering their various reporting requirements, extension regime and the copious digital pics they take of us, it would be impossible for all that to be only stored on paper.

Evidence was provided by a poster earlier in this thread who stated he had looked at his record open on a screen in front of an IO.

They must have an all encompassing computer record of us all!

The reason I addressed the question to people with first-hand experience is, as I said, many members here confuse how they believe things should be for how they actually are.

That a poster saw the complete record relating to his one passport - the passport he had just presented to the IO - on a screen tells us nothing about whether they have made the major investment that would be required to cross-reference each visitor's details with the details of ALL other visitors of ALL nationalities. At roughly 40 million visitors per year, and just going back five years, you would need to cross-reference 200 million records.

Computers and computer networks are wonderful, but they are not magic and they are certainly not free. That much processing would be wild. It is far more likely that they simply search against the name, nationality and date of birth presented, pull up any previous records, and make sure you are not on any of their blacklists.

That is why we need to find people with first-hand knowledge within the past six months, because only they, not our guesses, can tell us whether or not it still works.

You are the one confused about how things are and how you would like them to be!  Also, I wasn't addressing your post, so don't indicate that my opinion is out of order.

You should read again, and try to comprehend, the post where someone saw their own record, and not ignore the parts of it that don't suit your commentary.

Your knowledge of tech is sadly lacking if you think computers can't handle 200 millions records or more. It's not magic, it's basic. Even cross referencing millions of records going back to the start of the system is commonplace. It's not wild that enormous amounts of information are available to a processing officer. Have you heard of Google?

Thailand may not always spend money on equipment in the right way, but they will have access to updated computer systems. Outdated systems won't keep up with modern passport technology, and dare I say it - biometrics.

As I'm long retired, my first hand knowledge may be a bit dated, but I still retain the ability to think and understand. I hope you find someone with the patience to want to help you update your mind. 

[onera1961]

I think every IO through out the world has the same power - to deny entry even with a visa.

If they believe Ministry of Foreign Affairs staff in embassies are issuing visas improperly, they should take it up with the MFA. It is just not reasonable that they override the decision of the embassy to issue the visa, and simply state that you are denied entry because you should not have been issued that visa. That is really precisely what they are doing.

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jacko45k]

59 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

According to his post he does not live 'here' if by 'here' you mean Thailand.

 

He said he wanted to go back home. To Canada. That would indicate that he actually lives in Canada rather than 'here'.

No, just means he sees Canada as 'home'..... and refers to it that way. In a way I still think of UK as 'home' and have not lived there for 4 decades.

[onera1961]

Good luck for your next time. You should have accepted the offer for 100 USD for a neighboring country flight. Much better than an expensive/long flight back to Canada.
 
Lessons learned: do not fly into Thailand from far away unless you have retirement/marriage/Elite visa etc.
Fly to Malaysia or another neighboring country and then into TH so your way back is shorter if something goes wrong.

I would have bargained for entry for $100 USD not to another country. Paying $100 gives more leverage to bargain hard for my benefits.

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Khon Kaen Jeff]

I would just put it down to the blazer and wear something different next time.

 

It intrigues me why so many are desperate to come here all the time and even after being interrogated and made to feel like  a criminal then want to come back and try again. Why, are the streets here paved with gold???

 

If it wasn't for my kids here I would have been gone long ago.

[onera1961]

I'm surprised a 'wealthy young person' would even try to enter Thailand.
Plenty of nicer places where he would actually be welcome.
 
None of them ever mention why they are so desperate to come here.
10 years back sure, but now, totally beats me.

Ten years back the lure of Thailand was better and cheaper due to weak baht

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[donnacha]

14 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Have you heard of Google?

Yes, I have heard of Google. Here is one of their data centers:




Note the lack of immigration officers and Siam TV salesmen.

I am not saying that it is not possible to cross reference over 200 million records with multiple fields. I am saying that it requires a lot of computing power. Every. Single. Time. Almost a million visitors per week. Distributing the data to dozens of points of entry.
 

 

14 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Outdated systems won't keep up with modern passport technology, and dare I say it - biometrics.

Well, that's swell they have all these cutting-edge systems, because the addition of biometrics massively increases, not reduces, the size of your 200 million record search.
 

 

14 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

my first hand knowledge may be a bit dated

Quite possibly.
 

 

14 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

I hope you find someone with the patience to want to help you update your mind. 

Ideally, I would also like them to know at least something about the subject at hand.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[Old Croc]

5 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Yes, I have heard of Google. Here is one of their data centers:



I am not saying that it is not possible to cross reference over 200 million records with multiple fields. I am saying that it requires a lot of computing power. Every. Single. Time.

 

Well, that's swell they have all these cutting-edge systems, because the addition of biometrics massively increases, not reduces, the size of your 200 million record search.

 

Quite possibly.
 

 

Ideally, I would also like them to know at least something on the subject at hand.

 

Piecemeal quotes, sparse insulting answers, still a demonstrated lack of understanding of basics.

[Happy Grumpy]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

So you are really sc....ed when under 50, even when you have good reasons for wanting to be in the Kingdom long-time.

Just what sort of right do you think some foreigner has to simply choose to rock up and live here long term????

 

JHC.

 

Simply because they want to??

 

The visa systems here are great.

 

Marriage.

Kids.

Education.

Work.

Retirement.

Tourism.

 

Most tourists, probably 97%+ don't even need to get a tourist visa. they simply arrive, get a stamp, have their holiday and leave.

 

why the h3ll do people feel that they should be allowed to simply live here without working, studying, marrying or parenting???

 

Absolute arrogance. 

[rott]

Any desirable country in the world seems to be awash with foreigners, so perhaps somebody with adequate funds feels that reasonably he can live where he can afford to.

[donnacha]

31 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Piecemeal quotes, sparse insulting answers, still a demonstrated lack of understanding of basics.

If you had any idea of how ludicrous your conception of computing is, and what is practically possible within the publicly-stated budget, you would know that my responses were notably restrained.

Look, no worries. You continue on in your world in which massive data queries are universally possible and appropriate because you once used a IBM XT or watched Star Trek or whatever. It sounds like a rich and entertaining inner world, long may you enjoy it, I bare no ill will towards you.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[55Jay]

Even in the 7 years I've lived here, looking at TVF and watching the trends in these Immigration Threads, I recall getting a new passport used to be Plan A for those with too many in/out stamps, or those who got bounced out and needed a clean slate.  Wasn't it also a fairly standard procedure among "Travellers" who consciously over-stayed, as a way to avoid Immigration enforcement/fines when they did finally leave the country via aiport?  Just report your passport lost/stolen/damaged to the Thai Keystone Cops, get a new one at your embassy, and you're pretty much good to go. 

 

These things were discussed openly all over the internet for years, including here on TVF.  TI tightened up on these starting a few years ago.

 

So despite their own failings and corruption, TI has seen you chumps 1,000 times before and sees you coming a mile away, like a zit on a prom queen's nose.  Fresh passport = quick cross-check.  Data match confirms their profiling was bang on, yet again, so they bounce the cheeky J-class farang in the blazer over to secondary inspection for your arrogance.  You play your game.  They play theirs - with an obvious Home Team advantage.

Edited September 26, 2019 by 55Jay

[sillyfool]

2 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Just what sort of right do you think some foreigner has to simply choose to rock up and live here long term????

 

JHC.

 

Simply because they want to??

 

The visa systems here are great.

 

Marriage.

Kids.

Education.

Work.

Retirement.

Tourism.

 

Most tourists, probably 97%+ don't even need to get a tourist visa. they simply arrive, get a stamp, have their holiday and leave.

 

why the h3ll do people feel that they should be allowed to simply live here without working, studying, marrying or parenting???

 

Absolute arrogance. 

please step aside sir into secondary. we have some question we would like to ask you. 

 

i wonder if the op thinks cbsa would act the same way towards a person in a similar situation to his ? leaving the corruption out of it and only focusing on the visa situation in regards to what exactly this person is doing in thailand. last time i checked the visa requirements for thai's entering canada are quite harsh. 

op has continued to leave out very vital information that would help.

 

step up op and let it all out. 

[sillyfool]

5 minutes ago, donnacha said:

If you had any idea of how ludicrous your conception of computing is, you would know that my responses were notably restrained.

Look, no worries. You continue on in your world in which massive data queries are universally possible and appropriate because you once used a IBM XT or watched Star Trek or whatever. It sounds like a rich and entertaining inner world, long may you enjoy it, I bare no ill will towards you.

 

live long and prosper. na nu na nu. 

[wisperone]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

 

None of them ever mention why they are so desperate to come here.

10 years back sure, but now, totally beats me.

Sex

[chrisinth]

5 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

It seems like the METV issuing process from your home country doesn't check nor care about a person's previous travels.  So they take your money and issue you a METV.  Then at the Thailand border, the immigration folks, then start looking at travel numbers, stays, etc.  Now is this a coordinated money grab effort?  I doubt it.  Just horrible pre-coordination that should be raised in the news.

That is a major part of this whole problem, consulate/embassy ticking the MFA boxes to issue the visa (without access to the immigration database) and immigration ticking their boxes by using said database. 

 

That said, if it were ever possible to let the consulates/embassies have access, this would be another nail in the 'long stay tourist' coffin as a lot more would not have visas issued because of too many visits.

[donnacha]

15 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Fresh passport = quick cross-check.  Data match confirms their profiling was bang on, yet again, so they bounce the cheeky J-class farang in the blazer over to secondary inspection for your arrogance.

People do sometimes get new passports. Most last only ten years.

The OP said nothing about getting a new passport in order to hide his past visits. He merely mentioned that it was new.

His previous record does not sound that bad to me. He had no overstays. It is not as if he was hiding any denied entries. We are all in big trouble if a new passport and previous stays in Thailand is considered a problem.

In their rush to condemn the OP, and suggest he did something wrong, you all seem to be missing the fact that this was a shakedown. This has been happening with increasing frequency. Airport Immigration Officer now appears to be the dream job for any Thai who aspires to build up a nice collection of hundred dollar bills. It could just as easily happen to any of you.
 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[Percy Penguin]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

The reason stamped in his passport actually translates to: Doesn't have basic needs. Or to simplify it: He is impoverished.

This reason is just abused by immigration to deny people who they suspect of working even though they have zero evidence.

 

3 hours ago, Mattd said:

Exactly, it is their way of saying we think you work here but cannot prove it.

As I said, you can see the reasoning, a young bloke who is spending large amounts of time in Thailand, how is he supporting himself etc. 

As far as immigration are concerned, the means to stay in Thailand in cases such as this is provided for by the Elite program, I am not saying this is right or wrong, but you can see the logic.

 

To add to this, the pattern of denials are mostly visitors who make serial visits to Thailand and are under the age of 50.

That's exactly it. I disagree when Jackdd says it's abuse though.

 

The OP says he was questioned for half an hour but doesn't say what they asked him or what chance he was given to say where his money was coming from, if not from some kind of work in Thailand. If he can't demonstrate a source of income outside Thailand, you can't blame them for drawing the obvious inference.

 

Having cash on you doesn't help show where it comes from- those are two different things.

 

OP also doesn't say how many months of the year he spends in Thailand, only how many entries over the life of the last passport. More than 6 months per year is asking for trouble IMO, and I don't think that's a new thing.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Percy Penguin

[donnacha]

13 minutes ago, Percy Penguin said:

More than 6 months per year is asking for trouble IMO, and I don't think that's a new thing.

Well, it's a post-coup thing.

God, I hope this government collapses and we can all return to the beautiful simplicity of the previous system. It feels like a dream now but I used to pop into my local Thai consulate every year and pay £40 for a six month tourist visa that could be extended to 9 months. No paperwork or bank statements were required, they were apparently willing to believe that I wasn't planning on arriving in Thailand with no money in order to sleep rough and beg in an exotic new environment.

We came, we spent money, sometimes they overcharged us, but, on the whole, everyone was happy, lots of foreign money filtered through to every nook and cranny of the kingdom, and no one felt harassed.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[Sametboy2019]

5 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

Doesn't sound like a genuine tourist. 

 

why are you really spending so much time here? 

If he just spent 2 months at home he obviously isn't working in Thailand.

Should of been let in as he has the met the requirements.

 

 

[sillyfool]

3 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Well, it's a post-coup thing.

God, I hope this government collapses and we can all return to the beautiful simplicity of the previous system. We came, we spent money, sometimes they overcharged us, but, on the whole, everyone was happy, lots of foreign money filtered through to every nook and cranny of the kingdom, and no one felt harassed.

 

 

hahahah another one blissfully unaware that the world is rapidly changing. 

 

head meet sand. 

 

 

[jayboy]

12 hours ago, JamJar said:

"wearing a nice blazer and nice pants" is exactly what I wear when I'm going on holiday. ????

Try wearing trousers next time.Could make all the difference.

[BritManToo]

29 minutes ago, wisperone said:

Sex

Sex is available in Vietnam, and available cheaper in the Philippines and Cambodia.

And the women in those countries are all younger and prettier than the elderly Thai hookers.

Edited September 26, 2019 by BritManToo

[donnacha]

12 minutes ago, sillyfool said:

hahahah another one blissfully unaware that the world is rapidly changing. 

 

head meet sand. 

No, I am talking very specifically about Thailand.

You might not have noticed, but other countries in the region, such as Vietnam, are mostly making it easier for tourists to give them money.

The current Thai government is getting this wrong and needlessly blowing a massive asset that previous Thai governments (some of them democratically elected) spent 50 years building up. There is nothing natural or logical about what they are doing to their reputation as the world's most famous easy-going and stress-free destination. 
 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[maxpower]

56 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Yes, I have heard of Google. Here is one of their data centers:




Note the lack of immigration officers and Siam TV salesmen.

I am not saying that it is not possible to cross reference over 200 million records with multiple fields. I am saying that it requires a lot of computing power. Every. Single. Time. Almost a million visitors per week. Distributing the data to dozens of points of entry.
 

Google data centers are huge because the data quantity and global demand are huge.

In multimillion record databases searches are not made across all records. In fractions of a second, a base is divided into indexed compartments. A simple gender request would  provide significant start split. 

 

We have single server systems with several million records each addressing cloud storage locations. An i486 computer could easily handle a search index.
 

[jackdd]

26 minutes ago, Percy Penguin said:

I disagree when Jackdd says it's abuse though.

They misuse a law and cause damage to OP, this is exactly what "abuse" is.

 

27 minutes ago, Percy Penguin said:

The OP says he was questioned for half an hour but doesn't say what they asked him or what chance he was given to say where his money was coming from, if not from some kind of work in Thailand. If he can't demonstrate a source of income outside Thailand, you can't blame them for drawing the obvious inference.

If they were sure that OP is working they should have denied him for section 12.3. instead of abusing 12.2.

By using 12.2. they show that they weren't sure, so they should not have denied OP.

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, donnacha said:

here is nothing natural or logical about what they are doing to their reputation as the world's most famous easy-going and stress-free destination. 

They are forecasting 80,000,000 visitors for 2030 and it will cover 30% of GDP. Okay mostly from China and India, but at least they are expected to <deleted> off home after their holidays and not try and hang around whining about a sense of entitlement and how their sexpat antics support the local community!