Thailand to demand proof of health insurance for 'risky' long-term visitors

[illiterate]

7 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Agree!  Being able to prove you can cover your cost of care and not be a burden on the State is what matters, not being forced to buy insurance from a Thai-based insurance company.  Something very fishy about this IMO.

Rest assured, 100%, not even up for discussion, any time the govt compels you to buy a product from the private sector, it is wrong. 

 

People that support this type of thing need to wake the <deleted> up.

 

Mind you, insurances is not bad people, governments forcing you to buy insurance IS however. 

[brewsterbudgen]

I had a feeling this was on the cards and I was shrugged off with your worrying about nothing. This was the reason why we left. Right at the beginning of our stay I looked at insurance for me and my family and just my wife and children. First was a "your F^~&ING joking" the second was a "laughing moment". My health insurance was my wife's credit card, my car and our big bikes so if we could not pay we would sell. 10 years we had 1 x pick up, 1 x Everest and 3 times big bikes and never had to sell any unless we wanted to. Thank god we left. 

Why would it apply to you? OA visas are not for people with young families.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[zydeco]

9 hours ago, randy723 said:

I am 77years old and have tried with 3 different insurance companies to get insurance and they all say I am too old and will not insure me so does that mean I have to Leave Thailand, where I own a condo, car, motorbike, have a Thai wife and 2 children from my wifes first marriage and over 3 million baht in a Thai bank account where I am only getting 1 1/2 % interest. Does this mean i have to sell everything and leave and let the Thai goverament take care of my wife and kids.

The Thai government doesn't care about your wife or your children. They are just serfs in waiting so the bigshots can rule the country like a Renaissance Pope.

[Russell17au]

7 minutes ago, illiterate said:

Rest assured, 100%, not even up for discussion, any time the govt compels you to buy a product from the private sector, it is wrong. 

 

People that support this type of thing need to wake the <deleted> up.

 

Mind you, insurances is not bad people, governments forcing you to buy insurance IS however. 

How many other countries force their residents (citizens) to pay into a medical insurance scheme. Australia does with the Medicare because it is a forced insurance which is taken out of your tax when you do a tax return. Every tax payer pays 2% of their taxable income into this medical scheme that covers both doctors and hospitals. How does the NHS in the UK work? How does the Medicare in the USA work?

[zydeco]

8 hours ago, yahboo11 said:

Trump did the exact same thing in the States. Immigrants require to demonstrate they have health insurance. In the States, health insurance is very expensive

It's not the same thing. None of us on retirement extensions are immigrants. That is why we received "non-immigrant" visas to start with. We are just long stay tourists. And we get nothing from the Thai government. No free medical, education, welfare, housing, nothing! And Immigrant to the US is not only entitled to Obamacare and free emergency medical care but a huge variety of US welfare programs, including cash assistance and Medicaid.

[brewsterbudgen]

So, pray tell me what a 76 year old does when the insurance companies will NOT accept you. I was under the impression that this stupid government had made the ruling that your had to keep 400,000 Baht in your account ALL YEAR ROUND in order to cover yourself for any medical costs you may incur. I have used Thai hospitals here in HH and have never failed to pay my bills. I do not see how anybody can leave a hospital WITHOUT paying any monies owed. Simple answer, let the hospital retain your passport until your bill is paid, but that is too easy for these idiotic nurds to understand. 
How about us being allowed to pay a monthly health insurance fee to the government to cover the use of Thai hospitals, or have a bond paid for that covers say 400,000. This could be a 12 month saving deposit account held purely for health reasons? 

If you live here under a Retirement extension it doesn't apply to you. It's only for those applying for OA or OX visas in their home country.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Alicia Beaudin]

 

After reading the Thai Immigration Notice published on October 9, 2019 in ThaiVision, I came away with the impression that most retirees 

over 50 years old had to have health insurance.  In the section titled "Criteria for Consideration of Granting an Alien's Extension of Stay...",

sub-section six states "Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A, must buy a Thai health insurance...."

 

During their first year of stay, I think most retirees had an O-A visa from there embassies in their home countries. They had been granted an O-A.

The fact that the visa is not current is irrelevant. 

 

If the law only meant O-A current holders, health insurance could only be required in the first year. 

 

I wish the law had been written "Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A after October 31,2019..."

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, Max69xl said:

The article says "foreigners over 50", nothing about expats with O-A Visas. The number 80000 is very low compared to every foreigner in Thailand over 50 years old. 

How many foreigners do you think there are i.e westerners are in Thailand. I think the number will be far lower than you imagine. Less than 150,000 is a reasonable figure going on numbers published from time to time. But going on the numbers who have left and those claiming to leave soon there will only be me and you left.

[zydeco]

8 hours ago, manta said:

As retirees need too have 800,000 in the bank, that would cover any illness so I can see as being any problem?????

That is not your money. It's the bank's money, now. On permanent loan to them with no right to remove 400,000 and limited rights to remove the amount between 400K and 800K.  Now, the insurance companies want their turn. More of your money is going to become their money.

[whitemouse]

34 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Agree!  Being able to prove you can cover your cost of care and not be a burden on the State is what matters, not being forced to buy insurance from a Thai-based insurance company.  Something very fishy about this IMO.

A foreigner in Thailand are not, and can never be burden to the state. If foreigner  lacks insurance and lacks money for treatment, foreigner won't be treated, that simple. 

Where did this notion that foreigners are a burden to Thailand come from? 

[zydeco]

8 hours ago, whitfield said:

It's going to be tricky to get Health Insurance for my Mum, aged 88 years, with Alzheimer's.

And just a month or two ago Thailand was trying to advertise itself as a new medical hub for long term care at nursing homes.

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, Alicia Beaudin said:

 

After reading the Thai Immigration Notice published on October 9, 2019 in ThaiVision, I came away with the impression that most retirees 

over 50 years old had to have health insurance.  In the section titled "Criteria for Consideration of Granting an Alien's Extension of Stay...",

sub-section six states "Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A, must buy a Thai health insurance...."

 

During their first year of stay, I think most retirees had an O-A visa from there embassies in their home countries. They had been granted an O-A.

The fact that the visa is not current is irrelevant. 

 

If the law only meant O-A current holders, health insurance could only be required in the first year. 

 

I wish the law had been written "Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A after October 31,2019..."

If you read "Order of the Royal Thai Police no. 548/2562" you will see printed at the bottom, "This order is effective as of October 31, 2019

[whitemouse]

36 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

How much of the 500 million baht, foreigners have not paid for hospital bills, was culpably caused by traffic accidents involving Thai motorists with non or only minimal standard insurance (max 50000 baht for personal injury)?
 

I'd like to know, too. Articles claims that hospitals are being st1ffed 500 Mil baht every year. 500 Mil is a negligible amount, as far as hospital budgets and Thai private hospitals profits go, still, would be interesting to know what circumstances cause this 500 Mil whole. Do foreigners run off, after being treated? Who are these foreigners? How do they manage to pull it off, knowing that patients are asked to provide valid insurance, or cash before being treated. 

[monkfish]

4 hours ago, Teee said:

To enable a person from outside EU to have a long term Visa for UK...they have to first have a TB test...then if cleared a £2000 medical payment is required on Visa Application. This is to cover any medical expenses if required during stay in UK.

The thais are just putting in place what happens anywhere else in the world if you have long term Visa.

Why moan about this.

If you dont or cant afford the Insurance then why should the Thai Govt pay for your ills.

Simple really.

I believe for long term Visas it's £300-£400 per year to use NHS services same as a Brit and that's without any excludes.

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/visiting-or-moving-to-england/moving-to-england-from-outside-the-european-economic-area-eea/

 

 

[monkfish]

4 hours ago, zhorik said:

Thais in Britain unless they  Have permanent residence are charged for hospital treatment. Of curse collecting it may be a problem.

Does this stricture cover elite visa holders. also if you stay 11 months do you still need it. do you need a medical to prove you are not risky. why one year as illness canstrike in a month especially if  you eat food that is not hygienically prepared. 

I believe for long term Visas in the UK it's £300-£400 per year to use NHS services same as a Brit and that's without any excludes.

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/visiting-or-moving-to-england/moving-to-england-from-outside-the-european-economic-area-eea/

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, illiterate said:

What you have said essentially you do not have a problem with a government forcing people to buy products from private companies. 

 

Insurance can be summed up as a middleman collecting fees and overhead to make your healthcare more expensive. All they do is bloat health costs and reap profits. 

 

You may not have a problem with it. Hell, you may not have a problem with denying free speech and freedom of religion. But, it does not matter, some people do have a problem with it. 

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything. There are always choices. For example should you wish to purchase a 12 month Non Immigrant class OA visa then there are conditions attached one of which may be insurance. Whether you decide to purchase said Non OA visa is a matter of personal choice.

[zydeco]

6 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I would encourage all retired here to write letters to their respective Emassies outlining the demand by Thailand, pointing out the hardship caused by insurance policy excluded pre-existing conditions and the financial burden being unaffordable by many retirees. I will als include in my letter, a proposal that the issue be investigated, statistics gathered and a proposal to cover any deficit burden borne by Thailand be covered by an annual tax on the different segments of foreigners burdening Thailand with unpaid medical costs.

Unfortunately, the US Embassy is probably laughing at us. This means less work for them. the repatriation of retirement funds into US banks, and then they can get back to colluding with regional dictators, depots, and tyrants without a squeak from the expat community here.

[mngmn]

4 hours ago, kylep said:

They fattened themselves to the extreme with obesity-causing foods back home in their countries, drank themselves drunk with cirrhosis-inducing substances and now they complain about insurance being made mandatory. Shameless to the very core.

32% of the Thai population identify as overweight and 9% obese. It's estimated three are three million alcoholics in Thailand.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

You do not know what is going to happen, you are only speculating and you could be very wrong with your speculation but you could cause a lot of unnecessary stress on people by your unfounded speculation. It is not being prepared when you spread you unfounded speculations around, it is called scare mongering and it is not needed

You're entitled to your opinion, and I to mine. 

 

I agree that unfounded speculation is not a good thing, but if Non-O-A visas now carry this requirement, I don't think it is unfounded at all to seriously consider that extensions will follow, especially when you consider the basic premise that the new regulation is based upon.

 

Everybody on this forum is mature enough to consider the possibilities without being unduly stressed.  I think you give members on here too little credit.  There's no cause to censor discussion of this topic in the name of scaremongering. 

 

To not consider the possibilities is no different than just burying your head in the sand, believing that if you ignore a potential problem then it will not occur. 

 

Far better IMO to consider possible options so you are prepared if and when it happens.  Nothing to lose if the problem doesn't materialize.  A lot to lose for some if it does and they are not prepared.  Just my opinion of course.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by WaveHunter

[zydeco]

6 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Well one thing I find refreshing....We dont have to listen to those on the top of the visa food chain belittle those people going through a visa tightening lower down the visa food chain..As has been happening for many years now...

 

And then the Nazis came for me and there was no one left to say any thing...

 

This is precisely what I feared what was it six or seven years ago when Immigration first tightened the screws for too many visa runs, then ed visas, then digital nomads, and then the people aced out of their income letters. Now, it's hitting all of us. Even a poster above bringing in 275,000 per month will have to leave because he is uninsurable. At the least people should have had sympathy for those effected earlier. Preferably, everyone should have kept together. Now we'll all hang separately.

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

You're entitled to your opinion, and I to mine. 

 

I agree that unfounded speculation is not a good thing, but if Non-O-A visa now carry this requirement, I don't think it is unfounded at all to expect Extensions to follow when you consider the basic premise the new regulation is based upon.

 

Everybody on this forum is mature enough to consider the possibilities without being unduly stressed, and there's no cause to censor discussion of this topic in the name of scaremongering.  Just my opinion.  

I also have my own speculations but it does not help matters. My speculations on why this has happened are different from yours and it is something that you have not thought about.

[Mark mark]

1 hour ago, whitfield said:

I've just been to Immigration and asked about my 88 year old Mum.  They said this rule only applies to those on Non Imm O "A" Visas.  If you have a simple Non Imm O it doesn't apply.

This post should be blown up and put on every page of this Blog I think !!! - Thanks !

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, GSec said:

Nonsense...we are not politicians, last time I checked

The only recourse we have here is actually to..... stiff them hospital bills.

They started calling us names, we better rise to the occasion ????????

 

Seriously, mandatory health insurance for all long-termers was a question of time.

 

And, as yet, it has NOT been introduced. OA visa nobody else. Yet. But at present the overwhelming majority of expats in Thailand are not affected. 29 pages of comment with 26 pages of off topic posts. Pity the bloke who has to clean this thread up.

[Woolsgibb60]

11 hours ago, steve2112 said:

ditto, i didn't know it was even possible

How about all the Thais who live in europe work 1 year and get all the benefits specially free hospitals dont see them moan about at the thai goverment and who pay for them tax payers 

[Russell17au]

5 minutes ago, zydeco said:

This is precisely what I feared what was it six or seven years ago when Immigration first tightened the screws for too many visa runs, then ed visas, then digital nomads, and then the people aced out of their income letters. Now, it's hitting all of us. Even a poster above bringing in 275,000 per month will have to leave because he is uninsurable. At the least people should have had sympathy for those effected earlier. Preferably, everyone should have kept together. Now we'll all hang separately.

That person does not have to leave, all he has to do is change his visa from a Non-Imm O-A visa to a Non-Imm O visa and get an extension for either retirement or marriage. I will not speculate about what is going to happen in the future but just think about this for a moment. A Non-Imm O-A visa requires financials but those financials are normally in the applicants home country whereas a Non-Imm O visa those financials must be in a Thai bank account. Think about the financials.

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

First of all, those people from the USA who have Medicare and do not elect the supplemental coverage are foolish.  It costs nothing at all for two of the three optional plans, and in fact I believe that Medicare requires it be mandatory to have it (though I could be mistaken on that.). 

 

Suffice to say that most people who have Medicare also have supplemental coverage since it costs nothing at all to have.

 

Secondly, I discussed the international coverage with my agent before I moved to Thailand.  The agent was fully aware that I would be here as a long-stay.  In short, I was assured that such coverage as I described would be mine for the duration of my stay, however long that might be, as long as I maintained my coverage.

 

Again, I am not saying medicare is appropriate for day to day medical coverage here in Thailand.  It is not.  I have a separate "travelers insurance" policy for serious injury or illness that might not meet the threshold of "Emergency" Medicare.  For lesser needs, I simply pay out of pocket since most minor medical needs are inexpensive here

 

I merely said that Medicare provides a layer of protection for a serious life-threatening situation you might face in-country that my travelers insurance might not provide, and it gives me the option to return to the USA if that is more appropriate.  My travelers insurance also gives me that option to return to the USA should that be necessary and even provides transportation by private jet if required.

 

My original point in bringing this up is that Thai officials should take this into account in deciding whether or not an Expat must buy insurance in-country.

They won't and the rest of your post is , sadly, irrelevant. The policy will be purchased before the OA visa is granted so it cannot be purchased in-country, it will be purchased ex country the same as the application for an OA visa will be done ex country i.e home country. Maybe people will get lucky and the policy you are talking about will be accepted.

Edited October 10, 2019 by emptypockets

[Lacrimas]

10 minutes ago, Mark mark said:

This post should be blown up and put on every page of this Blog I think !!! - Thanks !

Yesterday they also posted the complete rules and it clearly mentions O A visas. This thread is pure clickbait and creates a lot of panic for nothing.

 

I'm wondering if this is because of the Thai Visa Health Protection Insurance they are advertising right now... I instinctively rushed to check it as well so the plan is working it seems.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Lacrimas

[WaveHunter]

41 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

A foreigner in Thailand are not, and can never be burden to the state. If foreigner  lacks insurance and lacks money for treatment, foreigner won't be treated, that simple. 

Where did this notion that foreigners are a burden to Thailand come from? 

With all due respect, that is a silly remark.  If a foreigner is brought into a hospital with a life threatening injury, they are not going to be turned away and allowed to die for lack of funds!  I mean, C'mon, what kind of country do you think we're living in anyway?

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by WaveHunter

[GrooveRI]

I was wondering the same thing as I am contemplating going from a retirement extension to a marriage visa. >?

Edited October 10, 2019 by GrooveRI

[Russell17au]

There is no need to falsely speculate this issue and cause panic among many ex-pats when there is a simple solution to the problem. For those who are married to a Thai then change to a Non-Imm "O" visa and get an extension based on marriage and have your financials in a Thai bank account and for those who are not married but are over 50 get a Non-Imm "O" visa then get an extension based on your retirement. Both of these options are available to you but you must have your financials in a Thai bank account and not in your home country.