Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[Martyp]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

 

It looks like the permissions of stay will be granted according to the validity of insurance. I.e. if your insurance expires, then they will limit the permission of stay to the expiry date of the insurance.

 

Also, don't know how people will get their "second free year" without insurance.

 

Unless I am not understanding this well.

 

My Pacific Cross agent said they would synchronize their policy dates with Immigration dates and pro-rate the fees accordingly. So it may be possible to work with your insurance company to adjust the dates so that you get your second year. However, it is one more thing you have to do to manage your immigration status.

[lkv]

29 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The effective date of he order is 31 October that means anything done before that date is is not affected. If it was retroactive it would state that and immigration has never done a police order that was retroactive that I am aware of.

I am getting tired of writing the same thing over and over again every time somebody starts a new topic.

Ok so you're saying that:

 

John gets a non O-A visa multiple on Oct 25, lands in Suvarnabhumi on October 29.

 

He will be issued with a 12 month permission of stay, up to 27 October 2020.

 

When John exits Thailand on 20 October 2020 and reenters on 21 October 2020, John will not be required to prove insurance and will be issued with a new 12 month permission of stay.

 

Best of luck to John in his interaction with Thai Immigration on 21 October 2020, arguing about when his O-A was issued.

Edited October 16, 2019 by lkv

[Martyp]

2 minutes ago, lkv said:

Ok so you're saying that:

 

John gets a non O-A visa multiple on Oct 25, lands in Suvarnabhumi on October 29.

 

He will be issued with a 12 month permission of stay, up to 27 October 2020.

 

When John exits Thailand on 20 October 2020 and reenters on 21 October 2020, John will not be required to prove insurance.

 

Best of luck to John in his interaction with Thai Immigration on 21 October 2020, arguing about when his O-A was issued.

It's all in the computer.

[lkv]

Just now, Martyp said:

It's all in the computer.

It's on the visa sticker as well, that's not the issue. The issue is every IO might interpret this internal memo as they wish.

[mosan]

2 hours ago, steevjee said:

Ok my heads spinning.... so I got my non imm o a multi entry visa from Oz in January this year. I’m going back to Oz in November and plan to return a few days prior to my visas expiration in January 2020, will I be expected to have Medical insurance or not?

For the record, I spoke to UbonJoe specifically about this situation as I too have a Non Immigrant O-A which I received in January of this year.  However, even after he advised me that I probably would be safe exiting and returning in January 2020, I went ahead and made a strategic decision.  I made a border run yesterday (15 Oct 2019) and got stamped back in for 13 October 2020.  My decision was based on the fact that interpretations may change between 31 Oct 2019 and January 2020.  I don't feel that losing 90 days means much to me in the overall scheme of things--But 54K to 85K is a bit of money to be betting on.  Besides, now I have a whole year to see how things shake out.  Additionally, over the next 90 days we're sure to get some reports of some getting caught out--or not. If not, then I can still exit and return in January 2020 and I'll have only lost a couple of hours travel time and 1500 Baht for the border run.  As we all say here, "up to you". 

Edited October 16, 2019 by mosan
Clarity

[Martyp]

1 minute ago, lkv said:

It's on the visa sticker as well, that's not the issue. The issue is every IO might interpret this internal memo as they wish.

It's one more thing in their arsenal but they are already looking at cash, hotel reservations, previous travel history. If you get pulled aside they will look at it like everything else.

[Martyp]

1 minute ago, mosan said:

For the record, I spoke to UbonJoe specifically about this situation as I too have a Non Immigrant O-A which I received in January of this year.  However, even after he advised me that I probably would be safe exiting and returning in January 2020, I went ahead and made a strategic decision.  I made a border run yesterday (15 Oct 2019) and got stamped back in for 13 October 2020.  My decision was based on the fact that interpretations may change between 31 Oct 2019 and January 2020.  I don't feel that losing 90 days means much to me in the overall scheme of things--But 54K to 85K is a bit of money to be betting on.  Besides I still have a year to see how things shake out.  Additionally, over the next 90 days we're sure to get some reports of some getting caught out--or not. If not, then I can still exit and return in January 2020 and I'll have only lost a couple of hours travel time and 1500 Baht for the border run.  As we all say here, "up to you". 

My current extension ends 19 November but I applied for a new one 7 October at CW so I am good until October 2020. This was before the announcement. Now I just wait to see what happens to others next month whether at the airport or at the Immigration office when applying for extensions.

[dotpoom]

Nothing new here ?

[chrisinth]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It does not apply to you since you got your visa in January.

Joe, while on the subject of this O-A issue, and not trying to hi-jack the thread weegee.......

 

Logically (yeah, I know) after the 31st October this should only fall on consulates and embassies that actually issue the O-A visas, ie, without acceptable insurance the O-A visa wouldn't be issued in the first place. Otherwise you would need IOs to be proficient with all types of insurance policies before allowing entry of an O-A holder into Thailand.

 

If I am correct in my assumptions, this to me, again thinking logically, raises a couple of issues as to the application for the O-A:

 

1. If using a Thai company for insurance as seems to be the insistence, and that Thai company does not have foreign branches then all applications for insurance would be online or by 'snail-mail'. (just putting this in as it will increase the application period in the future, something anyone applying should be aware of)

 

2. Would the insurance policy not need to be covering a two year period, the potential coverage period of the O-A visa, to make any sort of sense? If after the typical one year cover of the O-A, would insurance not be needed (as is being discussed here already) for the potential one year, re-entry covered, permission to stay?

 

And yes, I understand that the visa gets you to the country and it is the permission to stay that allows you to remain in country.

 

Although this doesn't currently affect me personally, the O-A route could be plan X, Y or Z further down the road for me.

Edited October 17, 2019 by chrisinth

[Martyp]

19 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Joe, while on the subject of this O-A issue, and not trying to hi-jack the thread weegee.......

 

Logically (yeah, I know) after the 31st October this should only fall on consulates and embassies that actually issue the O-A visas, ie, without acceptable insurance the O-A visa wouldn't be issued in the first place. Otherwise you would need IOs to be proficient with all types of insurance policies before allowing entry of an O-A holder into Thailand.

 

If I am correct in my assumptions, this to me, again thinking logically, raises a couple of issues as to the application for the O-A:

 

1. If using a Thai company for insurance as seems to be the insistence, and that Thai company does not have foreign branches then all applications for insurance would be online or by 'snail-mail'. (just putting this in as it will increase the application period in the future, something anyone applying should be aware of)

 

2. Would the insurance policy not need to be covering a two year period, the potential coverage period of the O-A visa, to make any sort of sense? If after the typical one year cover of the O-A, would insurance not be needed (as is being discussed here already) for the potential one year, re-entry covered, permission to stay?

 

And yes, I understand that the visa gets you to the country and it is the permission to stay that allows you to remain in country.

 

Although this doesn't currently affect me personally, the O-A route could be plan X, Y or Z further down the road for me.

I am living in Thailand and I purchased Pacific Cross insurance last year. The entire transaction occurred on-line using emails and pdfs. They send you an application as a pdf. They have to consider and approve your application which may take a week or two. You pay with a bank transfer and eventually you get a paper copy of your insurance policy in Thai and English. Assuming you get this before you get your approved O-A visa your insurance and visa will be out of sync by say 1 month.

 

The insurance policy is for one year. You pay upfront. Pacific Cross has told me that they can synchronize their policy date with your visa dates and they will refund any portion of the first year policy that you didn't use. Synchronizing your insurance with your O-A visa is a bit of a hassle. Also, It is not the end of the world if you don't get the full second year of your O-A visa. I only got 9 months additional on my O-A visa.

[jesimps]

17 hours ago, weegee said:

Oh well, the info i got is there at the start of this Thread....take it or leave it. It may be of use to some members...

Just follow Ubon Joe's leads...he has it spot on....

 

The moral of this story is post helpful information by all means, most of us are grateful for it. However, you have to be prepared for the unappreciative replies, as though you're trying to sell something. I sometimes use my time and effort to post info that I think may be helpful, but I never stick around to argue the toss. Take it or leave it.

[Davejf2017]

18 hours ago, weegee said:

And the Answer to that question was...NO! not required...Non OA only....and they are only obtained OUT of Thailand...Anything applied for INSIDE Thailand is exempt.

 

My friend  went to Yasothon Immigration yesterday for a extension of his OA visa which he got in UK he has been here on extensions of this OA visa for 12 years they gave him the extension this year but he was told when he next renews next year he MUST HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE so I think what is being stated a lot on here about not needing it is not true members should check with their local immigration and find out this is true.

[Jingthing]

My friend  went to Yasothon Immigration yesterday for a extension of his OA visa which he got in UK he has been here on extensions of this OA visa for 12 years they gave him the extension this year but he was told when he next renews next year he MUST HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE so I think what is being stated a lot on here about not needing it is not true members should check with their local immigration and find out this is true.

Interesting report.
We need similar reports from many offices from people extending now from original O visa bases as well.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[fishtank]

25 minutes ago, Davejf2017 said:

My friend  went to Yasothon Immigration yesterday for a extension of his OA visa which he got in UK he has been here on extensions of this OA visa for 12 years they gave him the extension this year but he was told when he next renews next year he MUST HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE so I think what is being stated a lot on here about not needing it is not true members should check with their local immigration and find out this is true.

I think I would trust the Police Order rather than some idiot Immigration Officer who has no clue.

[Deerculler]

Weegee

Thank you very much for the info 

Myself and others do appreciate your post.

[DUNROAMIN]

Too much speculation for me, I am over it, when immigration tells me I cant renew my extension in December because I need health insurance, then I will act. I just reported for my 90 days this week, no signs up in the office and nobody informing me that when I renew my extension of stay I may be required to have health insurance. Who knows in this place, one day something new , next day changes and from office to office they change the rules that suits them.

[Ej2562]

  18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

AFAIK, there was never any question or serious indication that the latest insurance requirement was in any way going to apply to marriage extensions of stay or even to O visas based on marriage.

 

 

What type of insurance is required.  Will the health insurance coverage one has in their home country be accepted by IM ?

[Ej2562]

Will the health insurance one has in their home country be accept for the insurance requirement?

Or does it has to be medical insurance purchased in Thailand?

[Exploring Thailand]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

I am living in Thailand and I purchased Pacific Cross insurance last year. The entire transaction occurred on-line using emails and pdfs.

So, at no point do you have to sign in ink - is that correct? I'm asking because I might be dealing with them from overseas.

[Martyp]

7 minutes ago, Ej2562 said:

Will the health insurance one has in their home country be accept for the insurance requirement?

Or does it has to be medical insurance purchased in Thailand?

There is a form on this website to certify foreign insurance coverage. 

 

http://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa?fbclid=IwAR1EF8TfpoHviQ7XW7Jr1pqmJcp-Dv7axopn3_Yogo47IgvrkabLxqj-EYU

 

Who knows if this will work. It asks for the signatures of two directors of the insurance company but I suspect that the signature of your agent and one other senior insurance person would do. 

[Bangkok Barry]

18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

AFAIK, there was never any question or serious indication that the latest insurance requirement was in any way going to apply to marriage extensions of stay or even to O visas based on marriage.

 

There was a report about 10 days ago in which an official said that from the end of October the insurance requirement would apply to ALL multi O visas for those over 50. Of course, it might have been that the official was talking out of his a***. Happens often enough.
 

I'll be going to Savannakhet next month for my multi O based on marriage, and will seek info on here before I go as to whether anyone has been asked for insurance there or not. Of course, others may post on their experience anyway before I go there in the second half of the month.

[Martyp]

2 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

So, at no point do you have to sign in ink - is that correct? I'm asking because I might be dealing with them from overseas.

They will issue a policy. You will probably have to follow up with an inked copy just like they will send you a printed copy of the policy. I never went to an office or met the agent. Choose a company. Phone or email the agent and go over the details. I don't think you have anything to worry about doing this from overseas. It shouldn't be much different than my doing it from my condo. Maybe an extra 5 days of mail time.

 

Now that the Police order is out regarding the need for insurance you can also ask them how to synchronize your policy with the visa process. My policy is due for renewal January 1st. I emailed my agent. He responded with a phone call an hour later and they were very accommodating about the policy renewal. If I want to sync with my extension of stay dates they have a plan for this.

[Bangkok Barry]

18 hours ago, TSF said:

I agree entirely with you. Just putting this regulation on one type of visa makes no sense whatsoever. They claim we farang devils have run up 500 mil thb in unpaid medical bills annually and the chief culprits are the "risky over 50 retirees". So surely it's only a matter of time before the insurance is made mandatory for all retirement exts. Anyway, it's going to be interesting so see the reports coming in from people doing exts in the coming months.

 

Why is it too difficult for them to deny or revoke the visa of anyone who fails to pay their bill, or to detain anyone at the border/airport if they try to leave the country with a bill unpaid? Rather than make demands of the multitude of people who have not left bills unpaid because of a relative few who do.

[Sheryl]

18 hours ago, steevjee said:

Ok my heads spinning.... so I got my non imm o a multi entry visa from Oz in January this year. I’m going back to Oz in November and plan to return a few days prior to my visas expiration in January 2020, will I be expected to have Medical insurance or not?

 

If what you got is an O visa and not an O-A visa (double check this) then definitely not.

 

If it is an O-A -- which it  sounds like  if it has a 1 year expiration - then the answer depends on who you ask as interpretations vary. It should be clear how airport Imm Officers understand it after the 31st as people start entering/re-entering on O-As issued prior to that date.  Certainly should know well before your planned re-entry.

[Exploring Thailand]

10 minutes ago, Martyp said:

I don't think you have anything to worry about doing this from overseas. It shouldn't be much different than my doing it from my condo. Maybe an extra 5 days of mail time.

That's the part I was worried about. I might well be short on time. Looking at the London Thai Embassy, they refer to a "copy" of insurance documentation, so you would think an ink-signed original won't be required. I just wanted to remove as many possible stumbling blocks as I can.

[edwinchester]

7 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Why is it too difficult for them to deny or revoke the visa of anyone who fails to pay their bill, or to detain anyone at the border/airport if they try to leave the country with a bill unpaid? Rather than make demands of the multitude of people who have not left bills unpaid because of a relative few who do.

It's not too difficult which suggests this is either an ill thought out policy targeting those not responsible for the vast majority of the bad debts or a brazen money grab from retirees with next to no options....take your pick.

[ToddinChonburi]

And that each immigration office will do what ever they want.

[Martyp]

4 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

That's the part I was worried about. I might well be short on time. Looking at the London Thai Embassy, they refer to a "copy" of insurance documentation, so you would think an ink-signed original won't be required. I just wanted to remove as many possible stumbling blocks as I can.

Here is how I do this. I get a pdf from the insurance company. I print it out. I sign it. Then, using an app on my phone, I photo/scan the signed document page and it becomes a pdf that I can then send back to the insurance agent. 

 

Really. Just talk to the agent and them them tell you the process.

[Sheryl]

22 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Why is it too difficult for them to deny or revoke the visa of anyone who fails to pay their bill, or to detain anyone at the border/airport if they try to leave the country with a bill unpaid? Rather than make demands of the multitude of people who have not left bills unpaid because of a relative few who do.

 

Revoking or denying the visa won't get the hospital paid. It is locking the barn door after the horses already got out.

 

Detention at the airport or border possible only if hospital has made a police complaint in time, which I do believe will start happening.

 

However not uncommon for people who can't pay their bill at time of discharge to enter into a repayment contract with the hospital (to pay in installments) and that leaves open the possibility of leaving the country and defaulting. I personally know at least 1 person who did so despite being a longtime resident with deep ties to the country.

 

Getting someone arrested doesn't get a hospital repaid either,  so naturally they will first seek every means of getting their money including in installments before resorting to that.

 

Contrary to what many have posted the problem of unpaid bills is real, and it does include (though is certainly not restricted to) retirees.

 

The solution that has been formulated is deeply flawed and won't solve the problem, indeed may make it worse (by luring people into the country with adequate insurance cover) and is also very likley  to   decrease uptake of O-A visas and deter  extended tourism by retirees.

 

In fact, it is astonishingly badly designed. But the problem is real.

[Sheryl]

38 minutes ago, Ej2562 said:

Will the health insurance one has in their home country be accept for the insurance requirement?

Or does it has to be medical insurance purchased in Thailand?

 

If your home country insurer signs the form listed on the longstay.tgia.org website (click under O-A visa then guidelines) it will definitely be accepted for the initial entry. It is unclear at this point if it will be accepted for a second entry. The website says no but that is not an official government source. Local insurance brokers are seeking clarification from Thai Immigration but have not yet gotten it. 

 

Getting the form signed may not be easy, however. You'll see why when you read it.

 

This applies only if you are entering on an O-A visa.