Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[nrasmussen]

Yes it's way to early to say anything definitive about actual enforcement policies in any office.
It isn't even 31 October yet!

Exactly! Until then, just read the published regulations.

All these speculations based on "what if", "maybe", "he said", "she said", etc., accomplish nothing except spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt).

[KeeTua]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well OK, but without ever having that base visa for retirement (O or O-A) whether recent or many years old, there would have never been any basis for an extension. Personally I think this hair splitting over terminology on this issue has become tedious and silly. It doesn't change anything either way for how the enforcement of the health insurance requirement turns out.

I think it is the constant reminder from posters on this forum that we aren't extending our visa, the visa is expired, is part of what is causing a lot of confusion.

 

The O-A visa is a temporary stay visa. The extensions we get are extensions of that temporary stay visa.

 

The TM.7 asks "Type of Visa"
What are people entering on that TM.7 line for type of visa?

Personally I enter Non-Immigrant O-A. My O-A had an enter by date and has never been stamped as used like tourist visas are.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

I think it is the constant reminder from posters on this forum that we aren't extending our visa, the visa is expired, is part of what is causing a lot of confusion.

 

The O-A visa is a temporary stay visa. The extensions we get are extensions of that temporary stay visa.

 

The TM.7 asks "Type of Visa"
What are people entering on that TM.7 line for type of visa?

Personally I enter Non-Immigrant O-A. My O-A had an enter by date and has never been stamped as used like tourist visas are.

Yes I've mentioned that before. You're always required to write the base visa type you originally had on the retirement extension applications. O or O-A. But however we describe the fine points of what extensions actually are, I seriously doubt the enforcing immigration officers are having the same discussions. They already know all about original visas and extensions. What is still unclear now are the specific enforcement policies of the specific offices for the new health insurance requirement. So in my view expats arguing about these fine point theories about what extensions technically are or aren't are basically pointless mental masturbation. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's kind of interesting that we're now about one week before the formal start of the O-A insurance requirement, and at least as of today, neither the Thai Embassy in Wash DC nor the Thai Consulate in L.A. have updated their O-A web pages to make any mention of the insurance requirement, or what kind of documentation they'll want to see.

 

The London Embassy has... but its O-A insurance blurb says absolutely nothing about what kind of policy documentation they will accept:

 

Quote

Copy of evidence stating that applicants have insurance as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and health insurance of Thailand which has insurance coverage for outpatient not less than 40,000 Baht and for inpatient not less than 400,000 Baht. Please check < http://longstay.tgia.org> for more information regarding the insurance requirement. 

 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html#7

 

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The London Embassy has... but its O-A insurance blurb says absolutely nothing about what kind of policy documentation they will accept:

What is needed will probably appear when a person tries to apply for a OA visa on the online application site those in the UK. 

There is nothing about insurance on the site about insurance yet. See: https://thaievisa.go.th/Home/LongStay

 

[lkv]

1 hour ago, KeeTua said:

I think it is the constant reminder from posters on this forum that we aren't extending our visa, the visa is expired, is part of what is causing a lot of confusion.

 

The O-A visa is a temporary stay visa. The extensions we get are extensions of that temporary stay visa.

 

Permissions of stay get exteded, visas just preauthorise someone to travel to the borders of a country, entry being subject to Immigration clearance.

Edited October 23, 2019 by lkv

[flexomike]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's kind of interesting that we're now about one week before the formal start of the O-A insurance requirement, and at least as of today, neither the Thai Embassy in Wash DC nor the Thai Consulate in L.A. have updated their O-A web pages to make any mention of the insurance requirement, or what kind of documentation they'll want to see.

 

The London Embassy has... but its O-A insurance blurb says absolutely nothing about what kind of policy documentation they will accept:

 

 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html#7

 

The Chicago Embassy has updated it's website requiring insurance

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, flexomike said:

The Chicago Embassy has updated it's website requiring insurance

 

 

Quote

 

**Additional requirement for Non-immigrant Visa “O-A” (for retirement long stay) application

As of 31 October 2019, visa applicant for Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (for retirement long stay) must have health insurance which covers the whole period of stay in Thailand.

Details of the requirement for health insurance are as follows:

• For In-patient: health insurance policy must have coverage at least 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year.
• For Out-patient: health insurance policy must have coverage at least 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year.

In addition to the existing required documents, visa applicant for Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (for retirement long stay) must furnish a completed“Insurance Certificate” as attached, as well as an original health insurance policy. A copy of the health insurance policymay only be accepted, provided that the applicant purchases the health insurance from participating Thai insurance companies as listed here http://longstay.tgia.org/.

 

 

http://www.thaiconsulatechicago.org/pages-non-immigrant-visa-eng.html

 

This text above, repeated for highlight below, is the kind of specific documentation guidance I've been trying to find from any of the Thai MFA folks in the U.S.

 

Quote

visa applicant for Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (for retirement long stay) must furnish a completed “Insurance Certificate” as attached, as well as an original health insurance policy. A copy of the health insurance policy may only be accepted, provided that the applicant purchases the health insurance from participating Thai insurance companies as listed here http://longstay.tgia.org/.

 

It looks like they're saying, as expected, if you wanna use a U.S. based policy, you're gonna have to get the MoPH type certificate signed by your U.S. insurer, in addition to providing an original copy of the policy itself.

 

 

[Pib]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It looks like they're saying, as expected, if you wanna use a U.S. based policy, you're gonna have to get the MoPH type certificate signed by your U.S. insurer, in addition to providing an original copy of the policy itself.

Or said another way, the Thai govt has made it practically impossible for a foreign policy to be accepted because no insurance company is going to sign a MoPH foreign insurance certificate saying the company has insured the person in accordance with a Thai govt resolution XYZ.  This effectively forces a person to use one of the Thai insurance companies listed on the TGIA website.   TIT.

 

 

[Pib]

To me the form is unclear in terms of how many insurance company names/signatures are required.  

 

Does two Director names need to be entered and then one additional signature.  Or are they looking for "three names and three signatures from the insurance company? 

 

You can bet the Thai General Insurance Assn (TGIA) constructed the form for the MoPH....constructed it in such a way they knew that no foreign insurance company would ever sign such a document.

 

http://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

Edited October 23, 2019 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, Pib said:

You can bet the Thai General Insurance Assn (TGIA) constructed the form for the MoPH....constructed it in such a way they knew that no foreign insurance company would ever sign such a document.

 

Now you're getting the idea!!! 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Interestingly, the above language from the Chicago Consulate also does NOT seem to incorporate the idea from the TGIA website (quoted below) that foreign policies would only be accepted for the "first year"...

 

Though it has never been entirely clear to me whether the TGIA wording means first year of the new insurance regime (and never after that), or first year of the particular O-A visa being issued (in other words, the initial year of each potentially two-year O-A period). Though it's apparent meaning in regular English would seem to mean just for the coming first year, and not ever after that.

 

Quote

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only.

 

Either way, the Chicago Consulate O-A insurance language seems to omit any mention of any "first year" limitation.

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

Interestingly, the above language from the Chicago Consulate also does NOT seem to incorporate the idea from the TGIA website (quoted below) that foreign policies would only be accepted for the "first year"...
 
Though it has never been entirely clear to me whether the TGIA wording means first year of the new insurance regime (and never after that), or first year of the particular O-A visa being issued (in other words, the initial year of each potentially two-year O-A period). Though it's apparent meaning in regular English would seem to mean just for the coming first year, and not ever after that.
 

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only.

 
Either way, the Chicago Consulate O-A insurance language seems to omit any mention of any "first year" limitation.
 
Not so sure. Wouldn't renewals mean extensions in Thailand. Why would embassies and consulates even bother to address that.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not so sure. Wouldn't renewals mean extensions in Thailand. Why would embassies and consulates even bother to address that.

 

Lots of folks get an O-A for almost a two-year duration, and then sometime during that period, go back to the home country and reapply for another O-A, and so on and so forth.... In part because it avoids having the requirements about bringing money into the country. But also because some folks live in the U.S. part year and then in Thailand part year.

 

[Jingthing]

 
Lots of folks get an O-A for almost a two-year duration, and then sometime during that period, go back to the home country and reapply for another O-A, and so on and so forth.... In part because it avoids having the requirements about bringing money into the country. But also because some folks live in the U.S. part year and then in Thailand part year.
 

Of course but from the embassy / consulate POV that is completely new application! Not by any stretch of the imagination a renewal.

Of course the reentry at the airport to get an additional year could be described as a renewal.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[UKresonant]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But also because some folks live in the U.S. part year and then in Thailand part year.

For them the Thai insurance policies Ts&Cs may not be met? So how would it solve anything....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Of course but from the embassy / consulate POV that is completely new application! Not by any stretch of the imagination a renewal.

 

I think the point was... folks will be applying for new O-A visas a year from now (or maybe not...) And from reading the Chicago Consulate's info, there's nothing that would seem to bar them from applying with a U.S. health insurance policy -- provided they could get their insurer to sign the MoPH certificate.  Which would be a different version from what TGIA is seeming to say.

 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Of course but from the embassy / consulate POV that is completely new application! Not by any stretch of the imagination a renewal.

Of course the reentry at the airport to get an additional year could be described as a renewal.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

40 pages of rubbish. The reentry to trigger 2nd year is not a rewnal.

O-A has life of 12 month. The next year if you choose to exit and reenter prior to expire date if O-A you have permission of stay for ~ 12 month. Leave and wish reenter in that period you will require reentry permit.

Then upon next out/in you are not using your OA . Your using reentry permit. Same as folk on extensions. 

To the folk entered years back on an O-A and been on extension relax. You are NOT extending your O-A. 

Your living in los on permission of stay. Heck you may have married since and now on extensions ME.

Such a stupid thread for 40 pages.

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

40 pages of rubbish. The reentry to trigger 2nd year is not a rewnal.

O-A has life of 12 month. The next year if you choose to exit and reenter prior to expire date if O-A you have permission of stay for ~ 12 month. Leave and wish reenter in that period you will require reentry permit.

Then upon next out/in you are not using your OA . Your using reentry permit. Same as folk on extensions. 

To the folk entered years back on an O-A and been on extension relax. You are NOT extending your O-A. 

Your living in los on permission of stay. Heck you may have married since and now on extensions ME.

Such a stupid thread for 40 pages.

You're just playing runaround games now.

The O-A visa gives you a one year entry.

As long as that visa is valid, every time you enter you get a NEW one year entry.

I'm sorry -- that CAN be a kind of renewal. 

The context here is HEALTH INSURANCE.

When people enter with their still valid O-A visas to get a NEW one year stay, what kind of health insurance proof (or none) are they going to be required to show to the border agent?

 

Also extensions are commonly called renewals. Precise language or not, they are. In fact immigration officers often say that.

 

Now let's be clear OK? I have no investment in the word RENEWAL. In fact, I don't like it at all. It's incredibly AMBIGUOUS.

So WHY have I been discussing it here? Because this text was pasted from the Chicago consulate:

 

Quote

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only.

Not my fault. That is THEIR language. So what is your reading of what the Chicago consulate means there by RENEWAL? 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Jingthing

[Almer]

On 10/16/2019 at 3:14 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's the million dollar question of the month... I believe UbonJoe believes not. But others believe it will be required, including based on some comments received from some Immigration offices.... At this point, I'd say, it's pretty unclear.

 

Well as clear as mud i would say

[KeeTua]

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

To the folk entered years back on an O-A and been on extension relax. You are NOT extending your O-A. 

Your living in los on permission of stay.

Immigration disagrees.

 

From Immigration Bureau website 'Visa Extension':

Home > Service  > Visa Extension > Visa Extension - In the case of retirement

 

The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

[DrJack54]

32 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

Immigration disagrees.

 

From Immigration Bureau website 'Visa Extension':

Home > Service  > Visa Extension > Visa Extension - In the case of retirement

 

The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

Its just the same as farang saying that they are living here on retirement visa. No such thing. 

Visas cannot be extended. The ongoing permission of stay can be extended. For example I enter los on a non o based on marriage valid for 90 days then I apply for 12 month permission of stay based on marriage. The following year I apply for permission of stay based on retirement. Followed the next year as being parent of Thai child. Which visa am I extending. I do not have a valid visa. 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, KeeTua said:

Immigration disagrees.

From Immigration Bureau website 'Visa Extension':

Home > Service  > Visa Extension > Visa Extension - In the case of retirement

Not really. It is whoever did the translation from Thai to English.

In Thai. 

Google translate to English.

[no deal]

On 10/18/2019 at 8:15 PM, ubonjoe said:

I don't think so.

The 2nd year is covered in the last memo in the English version for those issued after the 31st. On entry to the country you must have insurance valid for the entire year of the last entry.

hello ubonjoe i just ckeck my passport and it show that befor i get my extention mariage i have a non OA VISA do you think the insurance applie to me,thank you

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You're just playing runaround games now.

The O-A visa gives you a one year entry.

As long as that visa is valid, every time you enter you get a NEW one year entry.

I'm sorry -- that CAN be a kind of renewal. 

The context here is HEALTH INSURANCE.

When people enter with their still valid O-A visas to get a NEW one year stay, what kind of health insurance proof (or none) are they going to be required to show to the border agent?

 

Also extensions are commonly called renewals. Precise language or not, they are. In fact immigration officers often say that.

 

Now let's be clear OK? I have no investment in the word RENEWAL. In fact, I don't like it at all. It's incredibly AMBIGUOUS.

So WHY have I been discussing it here? Because this text was pasted from the Chicago consulate:

 

Not my fault. That is THEIR language. So what is your reading of what the Chicago consulate means there by RENEWAL? 

 

Jing, the excerpt you quoted in this post of yours above -- which came from a prior post of mine -- was not language from the Chicago Consulate.

 

It was language from the TGIA O-A insurance website, which I had posted to compare/contrast with the language used by the Chicago Consulate.

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, no deal said:

hello ubonjoe i just ckeck my passport and it show that befor i get my extention mariage i have a non OA VISA do you think the insurance applie to me,thank you

You do not need insurance.

Your OA visa probably expired years ago and you are on an extension of the last one year entry it allowed.

[no deal]

10 minutes ago, no deal said:

hello ubonjoe i just ckeck my passport and it show that befor i get my extention mariage i have a non OA VISA do you think the insurance applie to me,thank you

i start whit a NON OA visa ,i change for a retirement visa and change again for a mariage extention when i got maried.

[no deal]

54 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You do not need insurance.

Your OA visa probably expired years ago and you are on an extension of the last one year entry it allowed.

Thank you you have a good day good job!

[no deal]

 

ubonjoe i know you for longtime in this forum and you all way give good advice,i want to ask you about something, i read every where on the internet: farang are just tolere in thailand

i live there for 11 years and i never feel that,what you have to said about that? thank you.

 

1 hour ago, no deal said:

Thank you you have a good day good job!

 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You do not need insurance.

Your OA visa probably expired years ago and you are on an extension of the last one year entry it allowed.

I believe that current information leads to the conclusion immigration offices are looking for OA visa extensions. 

 

Whats real subtle will be what about those who arrived with an OA, generated a permission of stay, then extended on marriage.. Will they look at it that a marriage extensions doesnt need insurance, or that the initial OA visa generated the initial permission of stay, hence does ?? 

I think this whole system is one of the messiest 'logic changes' in years. Prior to this a visa generated a permission of stay, and going forward it was all about qualifying going forward. Each renewal is determined on its own merits. This changes that entire mindset.