Legallity of visa agents

[KhunFred]

No one is addressing the fact that Jomtien Immigration (and probably other offices) have their own "visa service" right there in the IO. The stamp is given by an officer who is rather highly placed. Total cost is 14 thousand baht. It is highly unlikely that such a visa service would be challenged by anyone. It is expensive, but for some of us, it is the only way to get an extension. I can't keep an obscene amount of money in a Thai bank and also pay my bills. Just common sense.

[The Cobra]

Just now, Orton Rd said:

Of course it's a bribe and a corrupt illegal payment. While not illegal for an officer to waive the financial requirements, taking cash to do so is illegal, it's not a service, it's a crime! Let the buyer beware, some have had their extensions done in another province to where they live and have met with difficulties when going to their own office. Lets not pretend this money making is anything other than what it is.

And how exactly can you or anyone prove what the money paid by the agent is for ? you cannot, no one can categorically state it was for that action.

Impossible to prove and your argument is flawed.

[Orton Rd]

2 minutes ago, The Cobra said:

And how exactly can you or anyone prove what the money paid by the agent is for ? you cannot, no one can categorically state it was for that action.

Impossible to prove and your argument is flawed.

It cannot be proved but still illegal. If it were legal there would be no need of visa agent go betweens and you could just go up to the counter explain you do not have the funds but are willing to pay for them to ignore it, you would be shown the door if you tried it because it IS illegal.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Orton Rd

[BritManToo]

Just now, The Cobra said:

And how exactly can you or anyone prove what the money paid by the agent is for ? you cannot, no one can categorically state it was for that action.

Impossible to prove and your argument is flawed.

My gfs pal is a lawyer who does the occasional VISA.

Retirement extension costs 25k, the lawyer keeps 5k and gives 20k to immigration.

You just need a valid passport.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

4 minutes ago, moontang said:

Or you could just take 2% here and then only pay 1900 every year, and 100 for the letter.  You really need a banking presence here, anyways.

i don't feel comfortable transfering money into thailand, after some horror

stories i've heard, that happaned to people with "TOO MUT" money in their

thai bank.

a recent story that was published on this board was that of a dutch man

who was sentenced to 100 years (!!) in jail for "money laundry" by thai court, while

his crime was only tax issues in this home EU country.

his mistake was transfering hundreads of millions of baht to thai bank accounts,

the thai banks allowed the payments no problem, and years later he lost it all.

 

just like any senior immigration officer can issue or cancell visas as much as he likes, 

so the authorities here or in other countries can, for the right amounts, arrest

you or confiscate your bank money , with and without the help of this or that agent.

so better keep your thai bank account thin and slim.

[The Cobra]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

It cannot be proved but still illegal. If it were legal there would be no need of visa agent go betweens and you could just go up to the counter explain you do not have the funds but are willing to pay for them to ignore it, you would be shown the door if you tried it because it IS illegal.

If a stamp/visa is issued by the legally authority by a legitimate authorised representative it cannot possibly be deemed illegal.

Edited October 17, 2019 by The Cobra

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

10 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Of course it's a bribe and a corrupt illegal payment. While not illegal for an officer to waive the financial requirements, taking cash to do so is illegal, it's not a service, it's a crime! Let the buyer beware, some have had their extensions done in another province to where they live and have met with difficulties when going to their own office. Lets not pretend this money making is anything other than what it is.

i don't care if it's illegal or imoral. all i care about is if it will not

get ME into trouble.

[onera1961]

3 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i don't feel comfortable transfering money into thailand, after some horror

stories i've heard, that happaned to people with "TOO MUT" money in their

thai bank.

a recent story that was published on this board was that of a dutch man

who was sentenced to 100 years (!!) in jail for "money laundry" by thai court, while

his crime was only tax issues in this home EU country.

his mistake was transfering hundreads of millions of baht to thai bank accounts,

the thai banks allowed the payments no problem, and years later he lost it all.

 

just like any senior immigration officer can issue or cancell visas as much as he likes, 

so the authorities here or in other countries can, for the right amounts, arrest

you or confiscate your bank money , with and without the help of this or that agent.

so better keep your thai bank account thin and slim.

Unless he is really laundering money, there is no way somebody can be accused of laundering money and put in jail. I simply don't beleive the storey. And if the person had hundreds of millions of dollars, why did he bring all his money to tthailand? Did he plan to buy 100 brothels (aka bars)?

[moontang]

8 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i don't feel comfortable transfering money into thailand, after some horror

stories i've heard, that happaned to people with "TOO MUT" money in their

thai bank.

a recent story that was published on this board was that of a dutch man

who was sentenced to 100 years (!!) in jail for "money laundry" by thai court, while

his crime was only tax issues in this home EU country.

his mistake was transfering hundreads of millions of baht to thai bank accounts,

the thai banks allowed the payments no problem, and years later he lost it all.

 

just like any senior immigration officer can issue or cancell visas as much as he likes, 

so the authorities here or in other countries can, for the right amounts, arrest

you or confiscate your bank money , with and without the help of this or that agent.

so better keep your thai bank account thin and slim.

bank accounts get levied in the US on a daily basis, state of California is notorious.  Dutch man brought over millions from a weed business.  The reality is that the Thai banking system 

is a safe haven, and that is causing pain at the exchange booth.  Recent reports by IMF say Thai banks are on par with Singapore and Hong Kong.

Edited October 17, 2019 by moontang

[The Cobra]

Just now, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i don't care if it's illegal or imoral. all i care about is if it will not

get ME into trouble.

If a visa was issued by the correct office/officer, and was later deemed to be invalid for any reason, thats a procedural issue for the immigration dept. In that the officer incorrectly issued it, it doesnt not make it illegal, it is not the recipients job to question or verify the officers decision to issue it. Thats HIS job to refuse or accept any visa application and its at his discretion.

[shadowofacloud]

 A bit OT, but would anyone be so kind and PM the details of an agent(s) in Bangkok, who'd charge 14-18k for this service?

 

The ones I've found expected to be paid 25-30k, as stated earlier in this thread.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I am talking about where fraudulent documents are submitted, such as bank statements, and a corrupt IO lets them go through. You are talking about agent services where the documents are legitimate.

The 25k retirement extension I was talking about, the only document you submit is your passport.

And you are taken along to sign the application form and have your photo taken at immigration.

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, The Cobra said:

Except that the senior officer who signs the visa stamp has the legal authority and discretionary power to issue a visa without ANY financial proof if he deems appropriate.

That is where all this talk falls apart. It is NOT therefore illegal.

Until the senior officer in charge gets fired, as happened at CM. Then all bets are off.

I can understand where the OP is coming from. I find the 800K baht earning 0.5% interest irritating too. However, he has to decide if the risk is worth it. I've already made the decision that it's not.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I have heard of visa agents who will do this. The going rate is apparently 25 - 30 K baht.

They are operating illegally, and in the event of either the agent or a corrupt Immigration officer being caught, will drag the extension applicant down with them.

This is not a western country.

False thinking and will never happen.

Some of you just do not get it.

It is accepted and encouraged by Immigration.

Millions of baht spread throughout the entire system.

The agents will never never never go away and in fact are becoming more a part of the system as things change.

[Lacessit]

38 minutes ago, The Cobra said:

Except that the senior officer who signs the visa stamp has the legal authority and discretionary power to issue a visa without ANY financial proof if he deems appropriate.

That is where all this talk falls apart. It is NOT therefore illegal.

So let me put the question: How do YOU obtain your retirement extension, assuming you are in that category? If not, what makes you an expert on the topic?

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I have heard of visa agents who will do this. The going rate is apparently 25 - 30 K baht.

They are operating illegally, and in the event of either the agent or a corrupt Immigration officer being caught, will drag the extension applicant down with them.

They work in cohorts with the local banks who provide fake statements. In Pattaya I have heard of two big name banks who are in on the deal. So the paperwork presented to immigration is all kosher and imm have no reason to dig deeper cos everybody gets a bite. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

This is not a western country.

False thinking and will never happen.

Some of you just do not get it.

It is accepted and encouraged by Immigration.

Millions of baht spread throughout the entire system.

The agents will never never never go away and in fact are becoming more a part of the system as things change.

Same question. How do you get your retirement extension?

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

17 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Unless he is really laundering money, there is no way somebody can be accused of laundering money and put in jail. I simply don't beleive the storey. And if the person had hundreds of millions of dollars, why did he bring all his money to tthailand? Did he plan to buy 100 brothels (aka bars)?

you can read about this story if you search "dutch man 100 years thai jail".

it was 100's of millions of baht, not dollars.

he propably brought all this money to thailand to save it from confiscation

by EU atax authorities (he had some tax problems in his home country), but

thai law say that tax evasion is not a reason for money laundry.

the bottom line of this story is that the verdict this dutch man got

was not according to the thai law. later his 100 years sentence was reduced to 70

years, and later to 20 years. why?

because that is how the "senior officers" felt like. that is the problem

with flexible rule of law like thailand's. it might feel nice

to get shortcuts like those semi legal visa agents, but it can

get nasty when the unsystematic system turns it's table on you.

[The Fat Controller]

This is the table of fees from an agent !

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Same question. How do you get your retirement extension?

Well, the topic is about agents, not my extension.

I know several agents and immigration officers.

It is all about the money that in turn is supporting RTP lifestyles.

I actually have no problem with it as several people I know are wealthy, working, busy and have no time to spend at immigration so they hire agents to complete the process.

In fact, I would not be surprised if they make it mandatory at some point over the next several years to have an agent represent everyone.  It is much more efficient and easier for them to process.

But, if you think everyone is going to jail using agents, well good luck with that thought.

 

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

you can read about this story if you search "dutch man 100 years thai jail".

it was 100's of millions of baht, not dollars.

he propably brought all this money to thailand to save it from confiscation

by EU atax authorities (he had some tax problems in his home country), but

thai law say that tax evasion is not a reason for money laundry.

the bottom line of this story is that the verdict this dutch man got

was not according to the thai law. later his 100 years sentence was reduced to 70

years, and later to 20 years. why?

because that is how the "senior officers" felt like. that is the problem

with flexible rule of law like thailand's. it might feel nice

to get shortcuts like those semi legal visa agents, but it can

get nasty when the unsystematic system turns it's table on you.

Will he or won't he? Looks like you are undecided. Good luck with your choices.

[Lacessit]

Just now, bkk6060 said:

Well, the topic is about agents, not my extension.

I know several agents and immigration officers.

It is all about the money that in turn is supporting RTP lifestyles.

I actually have no problem with it as several people I know are wealthy, working, busy and have no time to spend at immigration so they hire agents to complete the process.

In fact, I would not be surprised if they make it mandatory at some point over the next several years to have an agent represent everyone.  It is much more efficient and easier for them to process.

But, if you think everyone is going to jail using agents, well good luck with that thought.

 

In other words, you choose not to answer.

I use an agent myself; however, I play a straight bat. Strictly legit.

I will be applying tomorrow for an extension without the usual agent. Another thread could be coming up.

[moontang]

27 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Until the senior officer in charge gets fired, as happened at CM. Then all bets are off.

I can understand where the OP is coming from. I find the 800K baht earning 0.5% interest irritating too. However, he has to decide if the risk is worth it. I've already made the decision that it's not.

Does misrepresenting bank interest in Thailand really help anyone?  

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, moontang said:

Does misrepresenting bank interest in Thailand really help anyone?  

Please elaborate. That's what I get on a savings account. Yes, one can get higher rates on a term deposit, but then Immigration looks askance at that because it is not immediately available.

[beautifulthailand99]

16 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Well, the topic is about agents, not my extension.

I know several agents and immigration officers.

It is all about the money that in turn is supporting RTP lifestyles.

I actually have no problem with it as several people I know are wealthy, working, busy and have no time to spend at immigration so they hire agents to complete the process.

In fact, I would not be surprised if they make it mandatory at some point over the next several years to have an agent represent everyone.  It is much more efficient and easier for them to process.

But, if you think everyone is going to jail using agents, well good luck with that thought.

 

In my overwintering condo in Jomtien - two immigration officers very helpfully came to assist an elderly gentlemen who lived down the corridor with his visa extension. What a friendly and accomodating service. 

[Jingthing]

i don't care if it's illegal or imoral. all i care about is if it will not
get ME into trouble.

Probably won't but no guarantees.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

In my overwintering condo in Jomtien - two immigration officers very helpfully came to assist an elderly gentlemen who lived down the corridor with his visa extension. What a friendly and accomodating service. 

Different IO's at CM. I was told no special treatment for people over 70. Or in other words, <deleted> off.

[moontang]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Please elaborate. That's what I get on a savings account. Yes, one can get higher rates on a term deposit, but then Immigration looks askance at that because it is not immediately available.

CIMB and Krungsri both offer savings accounts in the 1.3% range.  A high percentage of offices accept FD, which simply call for a forfeiture of some interest if redeemed early. 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

2 minutes ago, moontang said:

CIMB and Krungsri both offer savings accounts in the 1.3% range.  A high percentage of offices accept FD, which simply call for a forfeiture of some interest if redeemed early. 

how about buying foreign investment / securities via thai banks?

i own shares in SHELL company, which pays 6.5% annual dividend.

i saw that SCB offer offshore investment account, with quite

god fees, and access to stock markets in many countries.

does anyone know if those foreign trading accounts are allowed also for

foreigners on retirement extention? and if other thai banks offer them?

http://www.scbs.com/en/product/product-offshore/

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i don't care if it's illegal or imoral. all i care about is if it will not

get ME into trouble.

Since you don’t have hundreds of millions of baht to transfer, don’t worry about it. Transferring Thb800k into Thailand won’t get you into trouble. I doubt if anyone, especially at the BOT will even notice. 
I would say that using an agent is more likely to get you into trouble compared to doing it yourself.