Village Maintenace Charges

[Guderian]

On 10/24/2019 at 12:59 PM, topt said:

If that's meant to be high our village has stratospheric charges.

Getting all that you say for 12k a year seems like a bargain.

How much do you pay then? As I mentioned earlier, the fee in our village is 800 Baht/month which includes street cleaning, lighting, garbage collection, 24-hour security and the use of a very nice swimming pool, as well as at least one Thai employee on-site in the office during working hours six days a week if you need help.

 

The only reason I could see for paying more is to beef up security as we only have one guard on each 12-hour shift. Security is very much a matter of scale, as the cost of a guard is fixed, so the more units you have contributing the more guards you can employ. There hasn't been a problem in the village in eight years, though, so it would be hard to justify a fee-increase for extra security to the co-owners at the AGM.

 

As an aside, though, I know a guy who lives in the up-market Jomtien Park Villas project on Thepprasit Soi 17. He pays 6K Baht/month, and I told him that's just silly, most village can do what's necessary for 500-1000 Baht/month, but he was adamant that he knows where the money goes and it's good value. Well, it's his money, so up to him. Then a month or two after our conversation about the village fees his village made the headlines. In spite of all the (apparently overpaid) security in his village a farang had been kidnapped from the house he was renting and turned up not long afterwards dead in a ditch. Something to do with Australian Hells Angels, you may recall it? Anyway, my point is that I really can't see any need to pay more than, say, 100 Baht/month as it's clearly sufficient to provide all the essential services to the residents and charging and spending more doesn't necessarily make things better, as shown by the security in Jomtien Park Villas.

[topt]

16 minutes ago, Guderian said:

How much do you pay then?

The village only has 52 houses. 30 baht per month per Talung Wah close to the centre of Pattaya. We  don't have a communal swimming pool.

 

We had a nice surplus until after the really bad floods 4/5 years ago when overflowing water from a fishing village removed a lot of one perimeter wall and sand from a development on another side took out another wall - somehow we ended up paying to fix it including adding a large storm drain from the fishing village to go into the village mains drainage...... 

 

[luk AJ]

I know of a gated moo baan with electronic card entrance. No card no entrance and you can discuss this all day with the guards, they won’t let you in. For a permanent guard this is maybe difficult but this can be overcome by hiring guards from security company.
Give home owners 1 week time to pay, if not paid action!


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[CNXexpat]

On 10/21/2019 at 1:31 PM, giddyup said:

It's illegal to remove someone's meter

 

On 10/21/2019 at 4:45 PM, giddyup said:

Again, illegal to deny entry to your own house

 

On 10/21/2019 at 4:45 PM, giddyup said:

Illegal.

 

On 10/21/2019 at 4:58 PM, giddyup said:

but the non payers just threaten the security guards

Well it´s also illegal to threaten the security guards. ????

 

If the moo baan cuts the electricity the house owner can go to the police. The moo baan managment says: "Ok, let´s go to the court". So the house owner has to wait for years - without electricity. I guess he will pay before.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, CNXexpat said:

 

 

 

Well it´s also illegal to threaten the security guards. ????

 

If the moo baan cuts the electricity the house owner can go to the police. The moo baan managment says: "Ok, let´s go to the court". So the house owner has to wait for years - without electricity. I guess he will pay before.

You can't just turn someone's electricity off. The meters are owned by the electric company and they may well become involved with the unlawful tampering of their meters. That's already been looked into at our village, and it's a no-no. What a resident says to a security guard, even a threat, is unlikely to involve the police, the resident would just deny the allegation, and it's very unlikely that the security guard would report the incident anyway.

[CNXexpat]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You can't just turn someone's electricity off. The meters are owned by the electric company and they may well become involved with the unlawful tampering of their meters. That's already been looked into at our village, and it's a no-no. What a resident says to a security guard, even a threat, is unlikely to involve the police, the resident would just deny the allegation, and it's very unlikely that the security guard would report the incident anyway.

Sure, but by example the electric meter of my hose is on the opposite side of the street and after the meter there is a cable to my house over the moo baan´s land (the street). They could say, that they don´t allow me the cable on their land. 

 

If you have a camera and perhaps a microphone at the entrance gate there is no chance for the non-payer if the moo baan gives the video to the police. And the guard is not personal involved anymore. Or the moo baan gives him some extra money for the report at the police. If the non-payer has to pay ten thousands of bahts, the management can give him 1,000 Baht what is a lot of money for him. 

 

If the moo baans really want to get their money, there are ways. 

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

Sometimes all it takes is just a hug from a neighbor and problems begin to solve themselves like magic. Hug it out with the local deadbeats, you'll be glad you did when you see the looks on their faces.

 

 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, CNXexpat said:

Sure, but by example the electric meter of my hose is on the opposite side of the street and after the meter there is a cable to my house over the moo baan´s land (the street). They could say, that they don´t allow me the cable on their land. 

 

If you have a camera and perhaps a microphone at the entrance gate there is no chance for the non-payer if the moo baan gives the video to the police. And the guard is not personal involved anymore. Or the moo baan gives him some extra money for the report at the police. If the non-payer has to pay ten thousands of bahts, the management can give him 1,000 Baht what is a lot of money for him. 

 

If the moo baans really want to get their money, there are ways. 

The only way, and it's mentioned here several times, is to put a lien on the residents property so it can't be sold until all the back maintenance has been paid, but this doesn't do you much good if the resident lives there for 20 or 30 years and then transfers the property to one of their kids. All these other suggestions like cutting off water and electric are illegal, as is denying the resident acces to their property, so I'd like to know what ways you are talking about.

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, MiNombreEsFicticious said:

Sometimes all it takes is just a hug from a neighbor and problems begin to solve themselves like magic. Hug it out with the local deadbeats, you'll be glad you did when you see the looks on their faces.

 

 

Are you serious? A hug will get a non-payer to cough up all the maintenance owing? Dream on.

[CNXexpat]

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The only way, and it's mentioned here several times, is to put a lien on the residents property so it can't be sold until all the back maintenance has been paid, but this doesn't do you much good if the resident lives there for 20 or 30 years and then transfers the property to one of their kids. All these other suggestions like cutting off water and electric are illegal, as is denying the resident acces to their property, so I'd like to know what ways you are talking about.

So much is illegal in Thailand and nobody gives a sh... Starting with driving without helmet.

If they cut the cable behind the meter over the moo baan´s street, the house owner can do what? Complain at the electricity company. They complain at the moo baan and the moo baan does nothing. The house owner complains again after 2 days at 38 C in his house, the electricity company complains again - and the moo baan does nothing again. And then? The house owner goes to the police and complain. The police asks the moo baan manager to come to the police station, but unfortunately he is outside the city for one or two weeks. And the house owner is sweating at 38 C since one week or more. Fridge is warm, washing mashine not running, etc. What do you think who will give up first, the house owner or the moo baan. And what do you think how quick the other non-payers will pay if they hear the story? 
There are always ways - especially in Thailand. 

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, CNXexpat said:

So much is illegal in Thailand and nobody gives a sh... Starting with driving without helmet.

If they cut the cable behind the meter over the moo baan´s street, the house owner can do what? Complain at the electricity company. They complain at the moo baan and the moo baan does nothing. The house owner complains again after 2 days at 38 C in his house, the electricity company complains again - and the moo baan does nothing again. And then? The house owner goes to the police and complain. The police asks the moo baan manager to come to the police station, but unfortunately he is outside the city for one or two weeks. And the house owner is sweating at 38 C since one week or more. Fridge is warm, washing mashine not running, etc. What do you think who will give up first, the house owner or the moo baan. And what do you think how quick the other non-payers will pay if they hear the story? 
There are always ways - especially in Thailand. 

You obviously have never put any of these things to the test, you are just tossing ideas around and giving all these silly scenarios. I have lived in the same gated village for 10  years, I know what works and what doesn't. Your gung ho suggestions are not reality. For instance, who's going to cut a live cable, you? All the house owner does is ring the electric company and they come and repair it. If you don't have anything more constructive to offer might be better to say nothing.

Edited October 27, 2019 by giddyup

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

Are you serious? A hug will get a non-payer to cough up all the maintenance owing? Dream on.

So what you're saying is, you've never tried my proposed solution but you have some way of knowing beforehand whether it will be effective or not? You may be psychic. 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, MiNombreEsFicticious said:

So what you're saying is, you've never tried my proposed solution but you have some way of knowing beforehand whether it will be effective or not? You may be psychic. 

I have lived in this village 10 years, the non-payers have been approached many times, never aggressively, but always with tact, but when someone point blank refuses and is unwilling to even discuss the matter, you are flogging a dead horse. Are you suggesting we knock on their door and give them a big bear hug? Are you even living in Thailand?

[CNXexpat]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You obviously have never put any of these things to the test, you are just tossing ideas around and giving all these ficticious scenarios. I have lived in the same gated village for 10  years, I know what works and what doesn't. Your gung ho suggestions are not reality. For instance, who's going to cut a live cable, you? All the house owner does is ring the electric company and they come and repair it.

Why should I cut? An employee of the moo baan would do. And if the electricity company arrives and the moo baan says: "You can repair, but not over the moo baan land. Find a way to connect the house without using our land, the workers will leave to find out and ask their boss what to do. The moo baan can make an endless discussion of it. And in this time the non-payer has no electricity.

 

Use your fantasy what is possible. The problem is, as everywhere in Thailand, that nobody is willing to enforce their own right or wants to get in a conflict with someone. So they increase the moo baan fee for the people who pay to pay the gardener and the maintenance and the non-payers smile and save money. Or the moo baan looks worse and worse by the years, what I also have seen. The pool is green, nobody cut the tees, holes in the streets and so on. 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, CNXexpat said:

Why should I cut? An employee of the moo baan would do. And if the electricity company arrives and the moo baan says: "You can repair, but not over the moo baan land. Find a way to connect the house without using our land, the workers will leave to find out and ask their boss what to do. The moo baan can make an endless discussion of it. And in this time the non-payer has no electricity.

 

Use your fantasy what is possible. The problem is, as everywhere in Thailand, that nobody is willing to enforce their own right or wants to get in a conflict with someone. So they increase the moo baan fee for the people who pay to pay the gardener and the maintenance and the non-payers smile and save money. Or the moo baan looks worse and worse by the years, what I also have seen. The pool is green, nobody cut the tees, holes in the streets and so on. 

Sorry, I refuse to discuss your ridiculous ideas any more, you're living in some alternate universe.

[CNXexpat]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Sorry, I refuse to discuss your ridiculous ideas any more, you're living in some alternate universe.

No problem. Be happy to pay your moo baan fee for your house and the houses of others they refuse to pay. 

I guess you don´t give me a huge credit. I really want to see what you will do if I refuse to pay it back and to pay interest. Some friendly words I guess and then you give up, full of hope that I´ll pay one day ????

[DILLIGAD]

Why should I cut? An employee of the moo baan would do. And if the electricity company arrives and the moo baan says: "You can repair, but not over the moo baan land. Find a way to connect the house without using our land, the workers will leave to find out and ask their boss what to do. The moo baan can make an endless discussion of it. And in this time the non-payer has no electricity.
 
Use your fantasy what is possible. The problem is, as everywhere in Thailand, that nobody is willing to enforce their own right or wants to get in a conflict with someone. So they increase the moo baan fee for the people who pay to pay the gardener and the maintenance and the non-payers smile and save money. Or the moo baan looks worse and worse by the years, what I also have seen. The pool is green, nobody cut the tees, holes in the streets and so on. 

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[CNXexpat]

1 minute ago, DILLIGAD said:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess you got this very often and now you want to show it to others.

[Pattaya46]

On 10/21/2019 at 4:45 PM, giddyup said:

Again, illegal to deny entry to your own house, besides they just threaten security.

People, yes, but maybe not illegal to prevent their car to enter... 

I say that because I heard of a condo in Pattaya where, when people didn't pay their charges, the manager deactivates on their magnetic pass the access to the car park and to the lifts !...

Don't know about the legality of such action, so just to share the idea...

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, jack7106 said:

I have lived here for many years in this complex and have never had a problem before

Pay your bills or make arrangements to have them paid on your behalf. I have a neighbour who comes back from extended trips and expects utilities to still be on weeks after the bill became due.... yet automatic systems keep up the consumption. It's dumb!

[EricTh]

On 10/21/2019 at 11:02 AM, giddyup said:

We have the same problem in our village of 40 houses, one (Thai) has not paid for several years and refuses to do so, just enjoys all the benefits like security, lighting, pool etc that others pay for, others (Thai) have to be chased, pay in dribs and drabs, and end up months in arrears. I feel sorry for the people who have to collect the money, always getting excuses and having to go back several times. It's a nightmare.

 

 

You call those security?

 

In my village, they let everyone into the village without recording their details. If a theft occurs, there is no way to trace them.

 

I would call them gate-openers.

 

Not everybody use the pool so I think the pool should be paid per usage.

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by EricTh

[giddyup]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

You call those security?

 

In my village, they let everyone into the village without recording their details. If a theft occurs, there is no way to trace them.

 

I would call them gate-openers.

 

Not everybody use the pool so I think the pool should be paid per usage.

 

We have CCTV at the gatehouse, don't know whether it works or not.

[Banana7]

13 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

People, yes, but maybe not illegal to prevent their car to enter... 

I say that because I heard of a condo in Pattaya where, when people didn't pay their charges, the manager deactivates on their magnetic pass the access to the car park and to the lifts !...

Don't know about the legality of such action, so just to share the idea...

Completely legal. You can't prevent the person from entering but you can prevent motor vehicles from using common property, the roadways. Also the elevators use lots of common electricity so not allowing the non-fee paying owner to use elevators is ok too. In our condo, the water is paid to the condo office and the water meters are owned by the condo and rented by each unit. If water meter is not paid then the meter is removed, 300b re-connection charge after water bill is paid. The electricity runs from a unit's electric meter into a circuit breaker panel owned by the condo. The breaker for each unit protects the wire from the electric distribution room to the unit. They haven't yet pulled the breakers in the power distribution but have pulled the meter, if the electric bill is not paid. Some units buy electricity from the PEA and some from the condo. Both PEA and the condo pull meters based on who is providing the electricity to the unit.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Banana7

[topt]

49 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

Completely legal. You can't prevent the person from entering but you can prevent motor vehicles from using common property, the roadways. Also the elevators use lots of common electricity so not allowing the non-fee paying owner to use elevators is ok too. In our condo, the water is paid to the condo office and the water meters are owned by the condo and rented by each unit. If water meter is not paid then the meter is removed, 300b re-connection charge after water bill is paid. The electricity runs from a unit's electric meter into a circuit breaker panel owned by the condo. The breaker for each unit protects the wire from the electric distribution room to the unit. They haven't yet pulled the breakers in the power distribution but have pulled the meter, if the electric bill is not paid. Some units buy electricity from the PEA and some from the condo. Both PEA and the condo pull meters based on who is providing the electricity to the unit.

I presume you are talking about disconnection due to non payment of utility bill - not non payment of a fixed "community" charge which is what this discussion is about?

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

We have CCTV at the gatehouse, don't know whether it works or not.

 

I watched the CCTV recording in my village last year.

 

The image was so blurry that you cannot see the number plate nor the face clearly at night time.

 

It's essentially useless unless it is very bright because it's low resolution.

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by EricTh

[Siam Bruce]

If it was a condo then the Juristic Manager can take them to court and recover all the outstanding debt and the Legal charges. Failure for them to pay the court can and Will arrange for the unit to be sold, the total outstanding debt paid, the court costs paid and the original owner given any balance.

If the Housing association was set up properly the same SHOULD apply, a quick check with a lawyer and you will find out.

It would be easier if you can get the Thai's to do this rather than expose yourself but in any case you all have to stand against them or it will not work

Good Luck

 

[Banana7]

On 10/28/2019 at 2:00 PM, EricTh said:

 

I watched the CCTV recording in my village last year.

 

The image was so blurry that you cannot see the number plate nor the face clearly at night time.

 

It's essentially useless unless it is very bright because it's low resolution.

 

I had a similar problem. Get a decent modern IP camera 3mp or higher with WDR (wide dynamic range) auto switching between day/night mode, and white balancing. Hikvision or Dahua cameras are decent ones. Record at maximum frames per second (usually 25 FPS) and maximum quality. Be sure to choose the correct lens based on target distance.

[Rhys]

Sadly this is somewhat like the neighbor's dog running amok and he does nothing... 

[Banana7]

On 10/28/2019 at 11:13 AM, topt said:

I presume you are talking about disconnection due to non payment of utility bill - not non payment of a fixed "community" charge which is what this discussion is about?

We changed water delivery point for upper floor rooms if the maintenance charge is not paid. Municipal water is delivered to the cistern at ground level. If you want water and not paid maintenance, you have to go to ground level with your bucket. Municipal water pressure is not adequate to supply upper floor rooms.

 

Pipes and pumps from the cistern to the upper floors are common property. We are not required to use common property resources such as pumps, water supply lines, electricity for the pumps to benefit people/rooms that don't pay for the service, namely common maintenance fee.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Banana7

[mahjongguy]

Unfortunately, remedies under the Condo Act are more robust than those under the Land act which applies to moobans.

 

Worse yet, so many moobans don't have a Juristic Person. Or, over the years, the Village Committee has declined in power or failed entirely due to a lack of volunteerism.