Landlord not going to return apartment deposit.

[New beginnings]

Just for a bit of background have resided in apartment for 6 years and always paid rent on time. When I moved in landlord, Chinese, lived in Chiangmai but moved to Bangkok a few years ago. Had always thought we had a very good relationship.

 

Since I gave notice this appears to have changed and message received today basically stating that I will not get deposit back. Despite the fact that signed lease clearly states that deposit will be returned within 15 days she has implied that I should move to another apartment, not one of hers, for one month and book air ticket any day after one month has passed. She clearly knows that any apartment will clearly cost me most of the deposit, 20,000 bahts, and I think she is also aware my current retirement extension expires on 30 November. She has also made it clear that she will be looking not to refund full deposit. She has already stated in an earlier message that I will not get any of the deposit back if I leave Thailand prior to the question of the deposit being resolved.

 

Whilst I have come to accept that I will lose the deposit I have about 3 weeks before current tenancy agreement expires and would appreciate any advise members are able to offer.

 

Incidentally apartment is rented out through a letting agent and I wonder if it would be worth approaching them for assistance or is there first priority to landlords.

 

Many thanks

 

 

[BestB]

If you already paid rent, you do not need to move out anywhere, if you have not, do not pay and again you do not have to move out anywhere.

 

She can not kick you out, because there is security deposit .

 

You can also send her email back, asking for receipt for all your rent paid which she would most likely refused, and in your reply let her know you would be contacting revenue department to clarify if rental tax has been paid.

 

You can also lodge a complaint with OCPB, have english speaking staff and let them contact her.

 

If a phone call from them would most likely change her mind and put her on the right path

[New beginnings]

Many thanks for your reply BestB. I pay rent 12th monthly. From your comments are you saying that, pending me pursuing other action to recover  the deposit, I do not have to leave when the current tenancy expires on 12 November or will I be evicted. Also as all rent has been paid through the letting agent would they be able to confirm proof of rent paid?

Edited October 23, 2019 by New beginnings

[RichardColeman]

Had 3 Thailand landlords - 2 paid deposit back in full. 1 made up silly reasons to keep 2 months worth.

When renting a house, always plan on losing it and be grateful if you get anything back.

[BestB]

21 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

Many thanks for your reply BestB. I pay rent 12th monthly. From your comments are you saying that, pending me pursuing other action to recover  the deposit, I do not have to leave when the current tenancy expires on 12 November or will I be evicted. Also as all rent has been paid through the letting agent would they be able to confirm proof of rent paid?

She can not just evict you. Police will not help her either.how do you pay rent? Transfer or cash ?

[New beginnings]

Cash at the letting agents office.

[BestB]

Just now, New beginnings said:

Cash at the letting agents office.

Do not they give you a receipt for money paid. ?

[New beginnings]

Yes.

[BestB]

6 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

Yes.

I am confused then why you want them to confirm if you have receipt for rent paid 

[Dante99]

What would happen if you moved out and the next day somebody got in and just trashed the place.  You have returned home on the airplane and your landlord has lost a lot of money on repairs.  Sad situation for her, really would not want it to happen.  

 

The landlord is clearly messing around with you in more than one way.  Talk to the agent.  If not responsive sleepily wonder outlaid about the above?

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Dante99

[cnxnicho]

Also rented a house with a 2 month deposit, when giving the required notice and follow up messages requesting an inspection meeting to confirm no damage and return of deposit, no response from the owner, found out this was not the first time !

 

Anyway, went to the local Police Station, the officer actually tried to telephone her, but she cut the call when realising where the call was from.   The officer advised us to stay put and not pay for 2 months, he gave us a police report, which was sent to the owners email address.   After understanding that she was messing with the wrong person,  one month later after staying put, received a message that the deposit would be returned, which she left at the security gate.   Returned in full and had a 1 month free rental !!

 

If your circumstances allow be strong !   

 

 

[New beginnings]

47 minutes ago, BestB said:

I am confused then why you want them to confirm if you have receipt for rent paid 

In your original post you suggested I contact landlord to obtain proof of all rent paid which you stated she would probably refuse to do. That’s was reason I wondered if letting agent would confirm proof of rent for full 6 year tenancy.

[BestB]

3 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

In your original post you suggested I contact landlord to obtain proof of all rent paid which you stated she would probably refuse to do. That’s was reason I wondered if letting agent would confirm proof of rent for full 6 year tenancy.

Oh you misunderstood what I meant 

 

The reason for asking is to let her know subtly that you would be letting tax office know she has a rental property and most likely does not pay taxes. This is why you ask for all receipt for the entire stay, which she would refuse as most if not all landlords do, and then in response to let her know you are contacting revenue department and OCPB.

 

Many landlords assume foreigners are stupid and do not know thai laws or what to do , once you let them know that you know , they change their ways.

 

Just as many landlords are just plain stupid and do not know the law themselves , once you hint to know more than them and can bring the heat ,they also change their ways.

 

it has not failed me in 20 years whenever landlords tried to pull some kind of scams with me. 
 

Oh and if she tries to change the locks or lock you out in anyway what so ever, go direct to police station and file trespassing charges. It’s instant arrest and 250000 bail for her. 
 

 

[YoungBrit]

What is her reason for not returning it within the 15days of you vacating the apartment?

[ThomasThBKK]

11 minutes ago, YoungBrit said:

What is her reason for not returning it within the 15days of you vacating the apartment?

 

In 99% of these cases the reasons are either

1) She would just like to keep it to buy a new handbag

2) She would just like to keep it because she already bought a new handbag and has no money or simply does not want to use her own money to repay you

 

 

 

[Vacuum]

A Chinese landlord doesn't return the deposit, I'm shocked.  555

[samsensam]

5 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

In 99% of these cases the reasons are either

1) She would just like to keep it to buy a new handbag

2) She would just like to keep it because she already bought a new handbag and has no money or simply does not want to use her own money to repay you

 

 

 

 

3) in debt due a gambling.

[beau thai]

not clear if you have sought help from the letting agent? Do they still get an annual cut after 6 years or do you and Mrs Chinese deal direct, cutting the agent out? If so, I guess they wont be interested in helping you.

Good luck.

It may risk throwing good money after bad, but a cheap letter from a lawyer may be worth a shot. Personally, I would not want her to get away with it even if it cost me some cash.

[New beginnings]

1 minute ago, beau thai said:

not clear if you have sought help from the letting agent? Do they still get an annual cut after 6 years or do you and Mrs Chinese deal direct, cutting the agent out? If so, I guess they wont be interested in helping you.

Good luck.

It may risk throwing good money after bad, but a cheap letter from a lawyer may be worth a shot. Personally, I would not want her to get away with it even if it cost me some cash.

 

Hi - To be honest I agree with you and will happily pay 50K baht in fees if it does not allow her to get away with shafting another tenant. I am popping down to letting agents tomorrow, closed today due to holiday, as I deal direct with letting agent not landlord.

 

[JimmyJ]

4 hours ago, Dante99 said:

What would happen if you moved out and the next day somebody got in and just trashed the place.  You have returned home on the airplane and your landlord has lost a lot of money on repairs.  Sad situation for her, really would not want it to happen.  

 

 

 

 

This is not a bad idea.

 

Reading the landlord and having a good fix on their personality before very subtly hinting this in a non-threatening manner will work with people who can apply basic logic - 

 

Such as -

 

"My tenant may trash my unit and blame it on a break-in.

I owe him X amount and he could cost me 3 times X amount or more.

I'm better off refunding his deposit, and hoping I get a sheeple tenant next time who I can steal from".

If its a loon who lives for conflict, that would be a bad fit for this avenue.

Better in that case to try some of the other tactics mentioned  (calling the Government agency which deals with this issue; telling landlord you will make sure he has paid tax -  and then doing so if necessary; going to the police;  etc.).

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by JimmyJ

[JimmyJ]

22 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

 

Hi - To be honest I agree with you and will happily pay 50K baht in fees if it does not allow her to get away with shafting another tenant. I am popping down to letting agents tomorrow, closed today due to holiday, as I deal direct with letting agent not landlord.

 

You could tell the letting agent that you will be spreading your experience on all social media. And that it's unfortunate that you will be mentioning his name and company as well, as he is the agent.

If he mentions the defamation laws, tell him you're leaving the country.

Edited October 23, 2019 by JimmyJ

[New beginnings]

1 hour ago, YoungBrit said:

What is her reason for not returning it within the 15days of you vacating the apartment?

 

To be honest I don’t know. Originally she stated that we would both have to agree to the signed tenancy agreement which clearly states deposit repaid in 15 days. Today received message I must wait 1 month plus 1 day before I should get part of security deposit returned. Not sure why she feels delay is acceptable apart from the fact she knows if I have to rent for full month the cost to me will be greater than security deposit.

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Had 3 Thailand landlords - 2 paid deposit back in full. 1 made up silly reasons to keep 2 months worth.

When renting a house, always plan on losing it and be grateful if you get anything back.

Lost count.. had maybe 9 or 10 rental houses.. In all of them the only ones I had issues with were 2 western agents on Phuket, and one thai where I broke the terms of the agreement and they correctly kept it. All my Thai landlords were fair IMO. 

 

Going by the horror stories I assume I was lucky, but I also accept that I have cultivated a relationship with my landlords (usually the wife of the household) who was on friendly terms. One in fact was a huge support after a wife died and really mothered me, bringing near daily food and checking on me for months. 

 

For me it feels like there needs to be a personal bond, if its just business, your much more likely to lose it. 

[YoungBrit]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

In 99% of these cases the reasons are either

1) She would just like to keep it to buy a new handbag

2) She would just like to keep it because she already bought a new handbag and has no money or simply does not want to use her own money to repay you

 

 

 

In that case, assistance from the police would help. 

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

In 99% of these cases the reasons are either

1) She would just like to keep it to buy a new handbag

2) She would just like to keep it because she already bought a new handbag and has no money or simply does not want to use her own money to repay you

 

 

 

3) Chinese never return money received, never, it's against their believes (Confucius )

[EricTh]

Get an agent or close friend to demand deposit on your behalf after you have left.

 

Ask the agent or close friend to transfer the money back to you in your home country bank account.

 

I think landlord should return deposit unless you have damaged her property. No excuse otherwise.

[JimmyJ]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

Get an agent or close friend to demand deposit on your behalf after you have left.

 

Ask the agent or close friend to transfer the money back to you in your home country bank account.

 

 

Except this is very likely why she is doing it - he will be out of the country and can't bring pressure on her at that point.

 

Plus she's done it before and gotten away with it, so why not?

Edited October 23, 2019 by JimmyJ

[New beginnings]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Except this is very likely why she is doing it - he will be out of the country and can't bring pressure on her at that point.

 

Plus she's done it before and gotten away with it, so why not?

 

She is not actually connected to the letting agency. They are a professional agent in Chiangmai and as such she will not have direct contact with individual employees.

 

[New beginnings]

Following on from recent notes I have posted below message sent to landlord a few moments ago, suitably redacted.

“Hi xxxx- It was great speaking to you today.

 

As I have said previously I have always felt you have been a good landlord, indeed I consider you more than a landlord but also a friend. However I would like to assure you that the following action is not being taken based on any feeling of malice between us.

 

However I am conscious of the people in Thailand and feel it is incumbent on me to ensure that all my taxes over the last 6 years have been collected and paid in accordance with local laws.

 

In this respect I am intending to approach the Thailand revenue department to ensure all my rental payments for the last 6 years have accorded with local tax law regulations.

 

Whilst I am able to forward them a copy of your passport (now expired) to the local revenue authorities together with copies of signed tenancy agreements, proof of rent paid, name of school where you are currently employed I do not have details of your current address. Accordingly can you confirm if the revenue department should contact you in case of need care of the school or xxxxxxxx office. Having said this I assume under TM30 regulations they will know your current address. Please let me know.

 

I have no doubt that you have fully met your tax liabilities in Thailand and the above proposals are merely for my peace of mind. Incidentally I understand that apartment xxxx is in your husbands name and suspect these details can also be passed onto the revenue authorities.

 

I have no doubt that all your earnings whilst in Thailand have been strictly observed and 
as such all appropriate taxes have been paid”

 

I await her response but have already resigned myself to fact that she will not return deposit and looking for anyway that she will not get away with this in the future with other tenants.

 

 

[beau thai]

25 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

Following on from recent notes I have posted below message sent to landlord a few moments ago, suitably redacted.

“Hi xxxx- It was great speaking to you today.

 

As I have said previously I have always felt you have been a good landlord, indeed I consider you more than a landlord but also a friend. However I would like to assure you that the following action is not being taken based on any feeling of malice between us.

 

However I am conscious of the people in Thailand and feel it is incumbent on me to ensure that all my taxes over the last 6 years have been collected and paid in accordance with local laws.

 

In this respect I am intending to approach the Thailand revenue department to ensure all my rental payments for the last 6 years have accorded with local tax law regulations.

 

Whilst I am able to forward them a copy of your passport (now expired) to the local revenue authorities together with copies of signed tenancy agreements, proof of rent paid, name of school where you are currently employed I do not have details of your current address. Accordingly can you confirm if the revenue department should contact you in case of need care of the school or xxxxxxxx office. Having said this I assume under TM30 regulations they will know your current address. Please let me know.

 

I have no doubt that you have fully met your tax liabilities in Thailand and the above proposals are merely for my peace of mind. Incidentally I understand that apartment xxxx is in your husbands name and suspect these details can also be passed onto the revenue authorities.

 

I have no doubt that all your earnings whilst in Thailand have been strictly observed and 
as such all appropriate taxes have been paid”

 

I await her response but have already resigned myself to fact that she will not return deposit and looking for anyway that she will not get away with this in the future with other tenants.

 

 

you have sent this before even approaching the letting agent??.  surprising. personally I would not react positively to attempted blackmail, but I hope it works for you.