Thousands rush to climb Australia's Uluru ahead of ban

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, JWRC said:

The word is aboriginal or Indigenous, not abo's, which is a highly derogative term. The Indigenous believe the rock is sacred, it is their dreamtime and culture, nothing to do with God.

I understand that, but the world is full of sacred places that are not reserved for a few because they are regarded as world  heritage. The Black Hills in the US for instance.

Walking on it isn't hurting it; they are not desecrating graves or anything like that. By denying thousands upon thousands of those that wish to climb it they are giving themselves a black eye, and IMO will come to regret it.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Thian said:

So why your name is THAIbeachlovers, plenty of beaches on the world and for sure in Oz...those are much better anyway.

If you hate ancient cultures so much then what are you doing here in thailand? Do also disrespect their culture and build a house on their mountain of big buddha?

I suggest that you stick to the debate about the rock, and stop getting personal. 

 

Do also disrespect their culture and build a house on their mountain of big buddha?

you are just being silly. No one is talking about building a house on Ayers Rock

[JamesBlond]

It's a bit rich to keep everyone off a natural feature because some people consider it 'sacred'. Just another example of the west's bleeding-heart syndrome. The aborignals keep calling it their "church'. It's not, it's a mountain that has been there for aeons before the aboriginals turned up. If they want a church they should build one on the top or carve one out of the rock itself. Then they can go there and enjoy their church. The rock though, is a rock.

[ballpoint]

One good reason not to climb it for some is that at least 35 people have died trying to do so.  Some by falls, others by heart attacks from the strain of the steep 348m climb.  In some sections you need to pull yourself up using a chain anchored to the rock.  I did it in the 80s, when I was 20 and reasonably fit, but was still knackered by the time I got to the top.  I wouldn't do it now though - and not just because I'm nowhere near as fit, but also because, no matter what the reason is, if someone doesn't want you climbing over their property then you don't do it.

 

[Thian]

5 hours ago, JamesBlond said:

It's a bit rich to keep everyone off a natural feature because some people consider it 'sacred'. Just another example of the west's bleeding-heart syndrome. The aborignals keep calling it their "church'. It's not, it's a mountain that has been there for aeons before the aboriginals turned up. If they want a church they should build one on the top or carve one out of the rock itself. Then they can go there and enjoy their church. The rock though, is a rock.

Right, so tomorrow i can send some huge fishing trawlers to Dirk Hartog island and catch all fish there since that''s just the sea which has always been there?

 

If the aussies want a closed of fish pond they should build one...

[sunnyboy2018]

When I was travelling in the Manali region of the Himalayas for the rubbing season I used to hire a study Gurkha type to carry me around up and down the mountain.

[Thian]

5 hours ago, ballpoint said:

One good reason not to climb it for some is that at least 35 people have died trying to do so.  Some by falls, others by heart attacks from the strain of the steep 348m climb.  In some sections you need to pull yourself up using a chain anchored to the rock.  I did it in the 80s, when I was 20 and reasonably fit, but was still knackered by the time I got to the top.  I wouldn't do it now though - and not just because I'm nowhere near as fit, but also because, no matter what the reason is, if someone doesn't want you climbing over their property then you don't do it.

 

Exactly!

Uluru is more than just a rock, it is a living cultural landscape that of which is considered sacred to the Yankunytjatjara and Pitjantjatjara people. These people of the land are the traditional owners and guardians of the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park.

[JamesBlond]

2 minutes ago, Thian said:

Right, so tomorrow i can send some huge fishing trawlers to Dirk Hartog island and catch all fish there since that''s just the sea which has always been there?

 

If the aussies want a closed of fish pond they should build one...

No, because fish are a limited resource whose existence is precarious. A rock is a rock is a rock. 

How if the aboriginals declare a huge swathe of the natural environment sacred? That's basically what they have done here. They can have their religious monuments but on a reasonable scale. No one's church, or even 'church', should take up more than a certain amount of the space out of modesty, practicality, and reason.

The issue with Uluru whiffs more of politics than religion. The aboriginals have adopted it as symbolic of their struggle for respect and while I think everyone should respect their culture and give them plenty of indulgence, I think they are making a mistake to push this as the rock is too big a thing for anyone to appropriate and that will only breed resentment. 

[klauskunkel]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

consider a sacred monolith

It's only sacred if it can give you lottery numbers

[JWRC]

46 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

It's a bit rich to keep everyone off a natural feature because some people consider it 'sacred'. Just another example of the west's bleeding-heart syndrome. The aborignals keep calling it their "church'. It's not, it's a mountain that has been there for aeons before the aboriginals turned up. If they want a church they should build one on the top or carve one out of the rock itself. Then they can go there and enjoy their church. The rock though, is a rock.

It is not a mountain, it is the worlds largest Rock. I do wish people would get their facts straight.

[thaibeachlovers]

44 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

One good reason not to climb it for some is that at least 35 people have died trying to do so.  Some by falls, others by heart attacks from the strain of the steep 348m climb.  In some sections you need to pull yourself up using a chain anchored to the rock.  I did it in the 80s, when I was 20 and reasonably fit, but was still knackered by the time I got to the top.  I wouldn't do it now though - and not just because I'm nowhere near as fit, but also because, no matter what the reason is, if someone doesn't want you climbing over their property then you don't do it.

 

It's only their "property" because some white guys gave it to them. They didn't build it. It was around a loooooooong time before they turned up. Did they buy it 50,000 years ago? Do they have title deeds from back then?

[thaibeachlovers]

28 minutes ago, Thian said:

Exactly!

Uluru is more than just a rock, it is a living cultural landscape that of which is considered sacred to the Yankunytjatjara and Pitjantjatjara people. These people of the land are the traditional owners and guardians of the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park.

It's just a rock. It's also a national treasure and should be shared by all.

Are they scared people will steal it? 

 

[keith101]

In my 60 yrs living and growing up in Aus I never had the inclination of climbing up that rock and never will I mean really what's the point its JUST A ROCK .

[Rookiescot]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

Do they have a way to drive up? from the back maybe?

We went to the temple near Udomrat dam in Khon kaen  and I climbed all the steps to the top.

 

only to find a bunch of cars parked behind it. Grrrrrr. Coming down was a breeze .

It would suck to climb that big ass rock  only to find a parking lot and a food truck there. 

Once climbed Mount Snowdon in Wales only to find a train at the top.

[Sujo]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's only their "property" because some white guys gave it to them. They didn't build it. It was around a loooooooong time before they turned up. Did they buy it 50,000 years ago? Do they have title deeds from back then?

Dont be an idiot.

[Thian]

5 hours ago, JamesBlond said:

How if the aboriginals declare a huge swathe of the natural environment sacred? That's basically what they have done here.

Oh come on, i've probably seen more of Oz than yourself and the abo's have Kakadu and maybe a few other spots, ALL the rest of that huge continent is occupied by those guys from Europe...

 

And it's said to say but since there are no decent nice churches in Oz they have claimed this rock to be their çhurch, well let them have it. There are plenty of same sized rocks in that area to climb but somehow they all want to climb this one.

 

I sure know why and how the Aussies think of them but hey these folks belong there as well. And if all they want is this rock i don't see the problem...you guys can have the other huge rocks.

[Thian]

5 hours ago, keith101 said:

In my 60 yrs living and growing up in Aus I never had the inclination of climbing up that rock and never will I mean really what's the point its JUST A ROCK .

Well it's the only thing to do in a radius of 1000 km around Alice...guess that's part of the problem...yup you can also climb termite towers there but even they will protect their property.

 

 

[ballpoint]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

It's only their "property" because some white guys gave it to them. They didn't build it. It was around a loooooooong time before they turned up. Did they buy it 50,000 years ago? Do they have title deeds from back then?

I'd suggest that it was theirs long before the white guys "gave" it to them, but, even so, title deeds don't work the way you mention.  It doesn't matter a fetid dingo's kidney who used to own a piece of land.  What matters is who currently owns it.  I grew up on a farm, and still own a half share of it.  A large mountain makes up part of the farm, with stunning views from the top.  I didn't build that mountain.  I don't consider it sacred, or a church.  I don't have title deeds from when it was thrust up from the sea 60 million years ago, but I do have the deeds for now, which some white guy "gave" to my great grandfather, and he in turn "gave" them to my grandfather, and so on.  If I don't want anyone climbing that mountain, for whatever reason I can think of, or even no reason at all, then I am perfectly within my rights to say so.  Just as the government has the right to ban people from climbing any crown owned natural feature.

 

It seems to me that, had the government banned climbing the rock because of erosion, or some endangered animal being threatened, or some other natural reason, then it would have been accepted, but because the local inhabitants asked that people not climb it for their own sacred reasons, it turns into a challenge.  Personally, I find religion and many other so called cultural beliefs, to be the biggest crock of manure invented by the human race, however, if a group of people are given the title rights to a piece of land then they have the right to dictate who gets access to that land, for whatever reason they have.  The fact that there is a rock in the middle of Australia that I'm not allowed to climb because the local inhabitants think it's sacred doesn't concern me in the least, though it would appear that it gets some frothing at the mouth, despite the strong likelihood they'd drop dead of heart failure before getting half way up it.

[Old Croc]

The fact that people have died climbing on this spectacular natural feature is no reason to close it. A small waterfall near Perth has killed about the same amount of idiot people, yet is still accessible.

Most deaths on the rock have occurred when people have wandered away from the marked paths, can't help stupidity. Many years ago I tried to climb it with a massive hangover, vomited all over it and gave up. Regretted it ever since.

Aboriginals have been using it for thousands of years. Around the base of the rock there are many fascinating natural features such as caves, waterholes and vegetation not found elsewhere in the surrounding desert. It is historically a special place for the locals. However, personally I believe closure is an indigenous political decision.

Interesting to see some Brits talking about the local culture. In the 50s they exploded their atomic bombs just south of there at Maralinga. They destroyed many cultural sites and an unknown number of nomadic desert people who couldn't all be found and moved.

[Orton Rd]

2 hours ago, JWRC said:

The word is aboriginal or Indigenous, not abo's, which is a highly derogative term. The Indigenous believe the rock is sacred, it is their dreamtime and culture, nothing to do with God.

There again abo's routinely use the word and it's no more 'offensive' then brits, yanks or jocks

[Thian]

After this rock is closed for tourists it will get pretty quiet in Alice and it's airport i bet.  No more tourists flying there to see the rock. The rednecks won't have anybody to fight with, nobody to play pool against (for a beer), nothing to do at all.

 

But the place will be perfect to build a huge solar power plant, cactus fruit farm, motocross track, or a spot where tourists can find their own gold nuggets with a rented metal detector.

 

And is this why they call that place Alice Springs?

 

 

 

 

 

[Thaiwrath]

I climbed it in 1991, when I toured Australia (and I was a lot younger !).

It was a really great experience climbing up, but coming down was terrifying, especially when your guide points out all the plaques at the base of the rock, of the people who have lost their lives in their attempt to get to the summit. Had to discard my underpants when I arrived back at my hotel ! ????????

 

 

[Brer]

I dont think this will kill off Alice, few other things around like King Canyon, a few other rocks or domes, walking around the rock.

 

Could go out and try to track a mob of camels for a shooting party, cut them up, bring back the legs dangling over the side of the Ute, leave the carcasses out there to rot, drink a lot of <deleted>, wake up in the morning boil the billy and make a couple of dampers, stuff the rock.

[GreasyFingers]

2 hours ago, keith101 said:

In my 60 yrs living and growing up in Aus I never had the inclination of climbing up that rock and never will I mean really what's the point its JUST A ROCK .

I valued my knees so just had a quite drive around it. It is spectacular if you get the right light on it, but that does not happen all of the time, so then it is another rock.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, ballpoint said:

I'd suggest that it was theirs long before the white guys "gave" it to them, but, even so, title deeds don't work the way you mention.  It doesn't matter a fetid dingo's kidney who used to own a piece of land.  What matters is who currently owns it.  I grew up on a farm, and still own a half share of it.  A large mountain makes up part of the farm, with stunning views from the top.  I didn't build that mountain.  I don't consider it sacred, or a church.  I don't have title deeds from when it was thrust up from the sea 60 million years ago, but I do have the deeds for now, which some white guy "gave" to my great grandfather, and he in turn "gave" them to my grandfather, and so on.  If I don't want anyone climbing that mountain, for whatever reason I can think of, or even no reason at all, then I am perfectly within my rights to say so.  Just as the government has the right to ban people from climbing any crown owned natural feature.

 

It seems to me that, had the government banned climbing the rock because of erosion, or some endangered animal being threatened, or some other natural reason, then it would have been accepted, but because the local inhabitants asked that people not climb it for their own sacred reasons, it turns into a challenge.  Personally, I find religion and many other so called cultural beliefs, to be the biggest crock of manure invented by the human race, however, if a group of people are given the title rights to a piece of land then they have the right to dictate who gets access to that land, for whatever reason they have.  The fact that there is a rock in the middle of Australia that I'm not allowed to climb because the local inhabitants think it's sacred doesn't concern me in the least, though it would appear that it gets some frothing at the mouth, despite the strong likelihood they'd drop dead of heart failure before getting half way up it.

My point, as you well know, is that they had no legal right under Australian law of "owning" Ayers Rock before it was given to them recently.

Best option in my opinion, is that it should have been made a national park, owned by all Australians. Problem avoided.

"Sacred" LOL.

They had the right idea about "holy" or "sacred" in Father Ted.

https://fatherted.fandom.com/wiki/Holy_Stone_of_Clonrichert

 

 

 

[brakar]

I was on a trip to Alice Springs in the year 2000 with my son. We visited Ayers Rock which was quite spectacular but we liked the trip to Mount Olga / Kata Tjuta the best. A walk of a few hours was the highlight of our trip to Alice Springs.

 

[natway09]

Climbed it twice, 2nd time because the weather closed in on the first & no view

Clear, but not much t see anyway, the Olgas just around the corner are beautiful though

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Old Croc said:

The fact that people have died climbing on this spectacular natural feature is no reason to close it. A small waterfall near Perth has killed about the same amount of idiot people, yet is still accessible.

Most deaths on the rock have occurred when people have wandered away from the marked paths, can't help stupidity. Many years ago I tried to climb it with a massive hangover, vomited all over it and gave up. Regretted it ever since.

Aboriginals have been using it for thousands of years. Around the base of the rock there are many fascinating natural features such as caves, waterholes and vegetation not found elsewhere in the surrounding desert. It is historically a special place for the locals. However, personally I believe closure is an indigenous political decision.

Interesting to see some Brits talking about the local culture. In the 50s they exploded their atomic bombs just south of there at Maralinga. They destroyed many cultural sites and an unknown number of nomadic desert people who couldn't all be found and moved.

Ah those lovely Brits. They are still destroying the original inhabitants of Diego Garcia by leaving them to rot elsewhere.

Sometimes it's really hard to love Britain.

[Captain_Bob]

Been there twice, but just walked the 9km path around it both times. Plenty of other things to climb in Aus. Aboriginals got a raw deal, so maybe show some respect for ancient beliefs. 

[JamesBlond]

13 hours ago, JWRC said:

It is not a mountain, it is the worlds largest Rock. I do wish people would get their facts straight.

Technically it's an inselberg - a weathered sandstone 'island mountain', and not the biggest one - Mt Augustus is bigger. Incidentally, the aboriginals have declared that one sacred too, even though it is quite dull-looking. Apparently when there is so much nothing around, anything that sticks up excites religious awe.