O/A visa and insurance experience today

[UncleMhee]

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Is that the official view from Immigration? 

It's what was told to me, and allowed on one re-entry this past January, as attested to by the attachments #1267 and laid out in the immigration act in the previous post by @lkv so yes; I'd say that's more than a view, that's official.

Edited November 18, 2019 by UncleMhee

[garyk]

On 11/15/2019 at 11:51 AM, Max69xl said:

There are no reason at all for the rest of the embassies to stop issuing income letters. You don't seem to know that the affidavits from the UK,US and Australian embassies didn't show stamped and signed documented pension. That's what the income letter from other countries embassies do,and that's what Immigration wants. 

Please, I know so many Europeans that alter the letter when they get it, it is crazy. One German guy I lived by told me it is a joke. They keep it pretty tight lipped but after I got into the click it is common knowledge.

Edited November 18, 2019 by garyk

[Peter Denis]

 

On 11/16/2019 at 2:51 PM, Forresttrump said:

Hi all, new member but not new to your forum.  I find your members experiences a great help when preparing for my frequent visits to Thailand.  I have the O-A visa issued December 2018 and returned here on Thursday.  Now the one thing I’ve learnt is never to question an IO’s knowledge of his job and have more documentation than you need!  Ok that’s two things.  First question from the IO you have your insurance certificate please, yes here it is, quick scan and stamp for one year extension and sent on my way.  For your information I only had multi-trip travel insurance for one year.  It worked for me your experience maybe different.

Attached below scans of a fully documented first-hand-case of re-entry on an original not expired OA Visa.

Some TV Forum members (including myself), are/were very worried whether they will be denied the 1 year permission to stay when they re-enter Thailand and some even postponed or cancelled trips outside Thailand for that reason.

But the report indicates that re-entering on a pre Oct 31 issued and still valid OA Visa is safe.  Also there are NO reports of people being refused when re-entering on an already expired OA Visa with a valid re-entry permit.

CONCLUSION > Entry or re-entry in Thailand with a pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa does NOT require health-insurance.

 

Note: The travel-insurance shown to the IO when he did query about health-insurance is NOT a thai-approved health-insurance, but a UK travel-insurance policy.  Was probably just a routine-question asked by the IO on which the answer didn't matter anyway, because after a quick look on it the IO proceeded with stamping the OA Visa holder in for the full-year.

 

On 11/17/2019 at 5:47 PM, Forresttrump said:

...I arrived 6pm at swampy, my original O-A is due to expire on 5th December 2019. I am only here for 15 days this time and have a multi-trip travel insurance policy issued in the UK by holiday extras.  The IO looked at the visa and the dates seem to mean nothing to him, he just ask for my insurance.  The interesting thing was he never looked at the cover just who issued it?  My policy does not have an official company heading, it’s just a policy issued by a reputable travel company underwritten by one.  It just has a policy number.

 

The IO just scanned it and stamped me in for one year.  The next day I went to Chaeng Wattana to do my tm30, and I think it’s a tm8 multi-entry stamp ฿3800.  Had no problems with either.  Hope this helps.

Note: documented report is from 2 days ago, but I only post now as I waited for permission of @Forresttrump

to share it.  Many thanks for that!

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

CONCLUSION > Entry or re-entry in Thailand with a pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa does NOT require health-insurance.

 

Note: The travel-insurance shown to the IO when he did query about health-insurance is NOT a thai-approved health-insurance, but a UK travel-insurance policy.  Was probably just a routine-question asked by the IO on which the answer didn't matter anyway, because after a quick look on it the IO proceeded with stamping the OA Visa holder in for the full-year.

 

I'm not sure I would automatically draw the same conclusion as you post above in bold.

 

In the example you've reposted, a pre-Oct. 31 O-A visa holder WAS asked upon entry for proof of health insurance (and ended up showing a non-O-A insurance document).

 

If Immigration weren't actually enforcing the insurance rule against pre-Oct. 31 O-As, then why would the IO have asked for proof of insurance?

 

The traveler's experience would have been more on point to your conclusion if the traveler, when asked for proof of insurance, was unable to produce any insurance paperwork. In that event, it would have been very interesting to have seen what the IO would have done on his entry.

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[AAArdvark]

27 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

 

Attached below scans of a fully documented first-hand-case of re-entry on an original not expired OA Visa.

Some TV Forum members (including myself), are/were very worried whether they will be denied the 1 year permission to stay when they re-enter Thailand and some even postponed or cancelled trips outside Thailand for that reason.

But the report indicates that re-entering on a pre Oct 31 issued and still valid OA Visa is safe.  Also there are NO reports of people being refused when re-entering on an already expired OA Visa with a valid re-entry permit.

CONCLUSION > Entry or re-entry in Thailand with a pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa does NOT require health-insurance.

 

Note: The travel-insurance shown to the IO when he did query about health-insurance is NOT a thai-approved health-insurance, but a UK travel-insurance policy.  Was probably just a routine-question asked by the IO on which the answer didn't matter anyway, because after a quick look on it the IO proceeded with stamping the OA Visa holder in for the full-year.

 

Note: documented report is from 2 days ago, but I only post now as I waited for permission of @Forresttrump

to share it.  Many thanks for that!

 

Do we know where that reentry took place.

It also appears that there is a separate ME stamp in his passport.  My passport with a still valid O-A (1st year) has not such stamp.  It has just the ME which is on the visa itself.

[LivinLOS]

33 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

 

 

CONCLUSION > Entry or re-entry in Thailand with a pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa does NOT require health-insurance.

 

Note: The travel-insurance shown to the IO when he did query about health-insurance is NOT a thai-approved health-insurance, but a UK travel-insurance policy.  Was probably just a routine-question asked by the IO on which the answer didn't matter anyway, because after a quick look on it the IO proceeded with stamping the OA Visa holder in for the full-year

 

Poster arrives.. gets asked to show insurance.. does show insurance.. and the conclusion is you dont need insurance.. 

 

Interesting perspective.. 

[Peter Denis]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

If Immigration weren't actually enforcing the insurance rule against pre-Oct. 31 O-As, then why would the IO have asked for proof of insurance?

 

The traveler's experience would have been more on point to your conclusion if the traveler, when asked for proof of insurance, was unable to produce any insurance paperwork. In that event, it would have been very interesting to have seen what the IO would have done on his entry.

Thanks for your response. 

Imo - which is of course just that: an opinion - it only demonstrates that border-immigration still does not have its act completely together, and individual Immigration officers are trying to cover their ### by asking for health-insurance because they are still confused even after the Nov7 Big Boss clarification meeting.

Also, I did not make the statement NOT required, solely on this 1 report, but there are at least 2 similar reports of re-entry with a still valid OA Visa.

One of them was asked for insurance and showed a non-approved foreign policy document and was stamped in for 12 months, exactly like case above.

The other one - even more interesting - was asked for insurance and not being able to show that, was after some internal deliberation still stamped in for 12 months.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Peter Denis

[vivananahuahin]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks for your response. 

Imo - which is of course just that: an opinion - it only demonstrates that border-immigration still does not have its act completely together, and individual Immigration officers are trying to cover their ### by asking for health-insurance because they are still confused even after the Nov7 Big Boss clarification meeting.

Also, I did not make the statement NOT required, solely on this 1 report, but there are at least 2 similar reports.

One of them asked for insurance and showed a non-approved foreign policy document and was stamped in for 12 months.

The other one - even more interesting - asked for insurance and not being able to show that, was after some internal deliberation still stamped in for 12 months.

 

 

i will know exactly Friday 22,i go to my immigration office for 90 days and will ask if i can in the country convert my OA extension to O based on  marriage before  march 24,or go out the country the 22 march to Laos(extension and basis visa OA invalid) to make a new visa Non O based on marriage for 90 days and extend later for one year.My basis OA visa was expired in 2014 and never go out the country.

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

Do we know where that reentry took place.

It also appears that there is a separate ME stamp in his passport.  My passport with a still valid O-A (1st year) has not such stamp.  It has just the ME which is on the visa itself.

1. Yes, in his comments between the scans he said Swampy.

2. That's correct, but he mentioned there  also that he bought that at CW after he was stamped in for his full 12 months.

[AAArdvark]

23 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

1. Yes, in his comments between the scans he said Swampy.

2. That's correct, but he mentioned there  also that he bought that at CW after he was stamped in for his full 12 months.

Thanks, I missed that.

[scubascuba3]

a friend just tried to do an OA extension at jomtien and was rejected for having no insurance. He's been doing extensions for years. Discuss

[Kadilo]

16 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

a friend just tried to do an OA extension at jomtien and was rejected for having no insurance. He's been doing extensions for years. Discuss

It’s becoming more commonplace. Seems to be clearer now what’s required. 

[lkv]

41 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

a friend just tried to do an OA extension at jomtien and was rejected for having no insurance. He's been doing extensions for years. Discuss

The Police order states, that extensions of stay require insurance, only Thai, and only from participating companies.

 

If John entered 10 years ago and received a permission of stay, today, he is on the same permission of stay (derived from a non O-A).

 

A 10 year permission of stay. Because he kept extending it (with extensions of stay), and kept it valid with re-entry permits.

 

From an Immigration point of view, there is no difference between Mike entering 1 year ago, or John entering 10 years ago, because they both kept the initial permission of stay valid (or the last permission of stay they could get before the visa expired, by doing a visa run, i.e entering one last time before visa expiry, does not matter).

 

That particular permission of stay has been kept alive for 10 years, and is still alive today, when John wants to extend his stay once again.

 

That's why, anyone that has a permission of stay derived from a non O-A, is asked for participating Thai insurance today, if they want to extend.

Edited November 19, 2019 by lkv

[Max69xl]

14 minutes ago, lkv said:

The Police order states, that extensions of stay require insurance, only Thai, and only from participating companies.

 

If John entered 10 years ago and received a permission of stay, today, he is on the same permission of stay (derived from a non O-A).

 

A 10 year permission of stay. Because he kept extending it (with extensions of stay), and kept it valid with re-entry permits.

 

From an Immigration point of view, there is no difference between Mike entering 1 year ago, or John entering 10 years ago, because they both kept the initial permission of stay valid (or the last permission of stay they could get before the visa expired, by doing a visa run, i.e entering one last time before visa expiry, does not matter).

 

That particular permission of stay has been kept alive for 10 years, and is still alive today, when John wants to extend his stay once again.

It's when your O-A Visa's first year is about to expire, you can leave the country and re-enter and get another year. After the second year it will expire and you'll need a 1 year extension,and if leaving the country using a re-entry permit will not change anything. 

[lkv]

13 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

After the second year it will expire and you'll need a 1 year extension,and if leaving the country using a re-entry permit will not change anything. 

You can keep any given permission of stay valid, with extensions and re-entry permits, forever (or until they refuse to extend your stay or issue re-entry permits).

 

It can be the first entry on a multiple non O-A, the second, the last, it doesn't matter.

 

What matters is, whichever permission of stay you choose to start extending, it derives from a non O-A.

 

Which is why they ask for insurance today at Local Immigration offices.

Edited November 19, 2019 by lkv

[ThaiBob]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

a friend just tried to do an OA extension at jomtien and was rejected for having no insurance. He's been doing extensions for years. Discuss

Bummer. So what's he going to do? 

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

a friend just tried to do an OA extension at jomtien and was rejected for having no insurance. He's been doing extensions for years. Discuss

 

When you say O-A extension, do you mean an extension of stay for the reason of retirement (retirement extension)?

 

I am asking because there are many people who arrived in Thailand with an O-A visa and later extended their stay for the reason of living with the Thai wife (marriage extension)

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, ThaiBob said:

Bummer. So what's he going to do? 

I've not spoken to him but the only thing you can do is go for the O

[OJAS]

14 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

a friend just tried to do an OA extension at jomtien and was rejected for having no insurance. He's been doing extensions for years. Discuss

Jomtien enhancing their credentials as a rogue office these days when it comes to retirement extensions, I think  - coming on top of their current requirements for (1) those using the 800k/400k method to return after 90 days with their bank books; and (2) Americans, Aussies & Brits using the 65k monthly income method to obtain a special bank letter listing details of transfers from abroad including home country currency debits (with standard 6-month/12-month bank statements, which are generally accepted by most other offices, not proving adequate).

Edited November 20, 2019 by OJAS

[kingofthemountain]

12 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've not spoken to him but the only thing you can do is go for the O

Go for the O is not as easy as it seems to be

but good luck for him and it 'll be nice if you give us more

details about the others steps

what he decides to do, what are the difficulties he has with the way he choose and so on

TYIA

Edited November 20, 2019 by kingofthemountain

[Exploring Thailand]

3 hours ago, OJAS said:

and (2) Americans, Aussies & Brits using the 65k monthly income method to obtain a special bank letter listing details of transfers from abroad including home country currency debits (with standard 6-month/12-month bank statements, which are generally accepted by most other offices, not proving adequate)

Could you expand on this "including home country currency debits"? I read in another thread that some offices won't accept a transfer from your own account in your own country. I'm trying to understand what they actually want to see. I'm in Bangkok, but all information is helpful.

[Thaidream]

18 hours ago, lkv said:

From an Immigration point of view, there is no difference between Mike entering 1 year ago, or John entering 10 years ago, because they both kept the initial permission of stay valid (or the last permission of stay they could get before the visa expired, by doing a visa run, i.e entering one last time before visa expiry, does not matter).

 

That particular permission of stay has been kept alive for 10 years, and is still alive today, when John wants to extend his stay once again.

 

That's why, anyone that has a permission of stay derived from a non O-A, is asked for participating Thai insurance today, if they want to extend.

Edited 17 hours ago by lkv

There is a loy of difference between anyon with an O-A issued prior to 21 october 2019 and after the start date indicated on the Police Order/Memoranda.

 

Those applicants on an O-A prior to the start date, especially long term O-A extensions had no idea this would be a requirement for the future and planned their affairs  with that in mind.

 

Any country I know of to include Thailand have always grandfthered people when a new regulation/law or change came out.  It is the only faair and mostly legal way to conduct business.

 

Let's hope  someone with some sense and a level of authority will listen to the expats and the Embassies who have sent Diplomatic notes to the Thai Immigration Bureau and the Ministries involved that the execution of the police order is not only confusing but just plain wrong and in my opinion not legal.

[Max69xl]

53 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Could you expand on this "including home country currency debits"? I read in another thread that some offices won't accept a transfer from your own account in your own country. I'm trying to understand what they actually want to see. I'm in Bangkok, but all information is helpful.

Which thai bank do you have? 

And forget "including home country currency debits". I don't know where he got that from. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Max69xl

[Exploring Thailand]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Which thai bank do you have? 

Kasikorn and Bangkok.

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Kasikorn and Bangkok.

To which bank do you transfer your income/pension? 

[Exploring Thailand]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

To which bank do you transfer your income/pension? 

I am in the first month of the twelve, so I can transfer it wherever I need to. I've made one transfer to Bangkok, but I can make another to Kasikorn. I'm aware that the transfer must be marked as international.  From what I've read, using transferwise to transfer to Bangkok Bank,  the transfer is guaranteed to marked as international, providing that you select the correct option from the drop-down when making the transfer.

 

My query to OJAS was more concerned with Immigration wanting information about the provenance of the funds. I am transferring my own money. It is not a pension.

[Max69xl]

10 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

I am in the first month of the twelve, so I can transfer it wherever I need to. I've made one transfer to Bangkok, but I can make another to Kasikorn. I'm aware that the transfer must be marked as international.  From what I've read, using transferwise to transfer to Bangkok Bank,  the transfer is guaranteed to marked as international, providing that you select the correct option from the drop-down when making the transfer.

 

My query to OJAS was more concerned with Immigration wanting information about the provenance of the funds. I am transferring my own money. It is not a pension.

Imo Bangkok Bank is better than K-Bank when we're talking Immigration matters. CW Immigration in BKK might ask for the source of the money. Normally on a retirement visa/extension you are supposed to be retired. Just telling them that the money comes from savings back home "might" not be enough. They want the transfers to be foreign,and when using TransferWise as you said, correct 'reason for transfer' is still important = 'Funds for long term stay in Thailand'. They want a bank letter from your thai bank and bank statements showing the transfers as foreign. Are you still on your 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa? 

[Exploring Thailand]

9 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Imo Bangkok Bank is better than K-Bank when we're talking Immigration matters. CW Immigration in BKK might ask for the source of the money. Normally on a retirement visa/extension you are supposed to be retired. Just telling them that the money comes from savings back home "might" not be enough. They want the transfers to be foreign,and when using TransferWise as you said, correct 'reason for transfer' is still important = 'Funds for long term stay in Thailand'. They want a bank letter from your thai bank and bank statements showing the transfers as foreign. Are you still on your 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa? 

I'm on an OA. I was previously on a retirement, using the 800k method. This year, I'm going to start bringing 65k monthly to give me more options when it is time to extend. For the 800k, they wanted proof that it was an international transfer, but there was no requirement for me to tell them where I got the funds from.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Exploring Thailand

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

I'm on an OA. I was previously on a retirement, using the 800k method. This year, I'm going to start bringing 65k monthly to give me more options when it is time to extend. For the 800k, they wanted proof that it was an international transfer, but there was no requirement for me to tell them where I got the funds from.

The 800k just have to be a foreign transfer. But for the 65k monthly method the source is required at several immigration offices. I can use both pension or money in the bank,but it's so easy when using the money in the bank method. I'm out of immigration in 5min and no hassle with transfers and bank statements or income letters.

[Peter Denis]

32 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

I'm on an OA. I was previously on a retirement, using the 800k method. This year, I'm going to start bringing 65k monthly to give me more options when it is time to extend.

Some relevant tips when opting for the +65K monthly income method:

1. Ensure that the funds are transferred a couple of days before the end of the month.

When there is a delay in receiving the funds on your thai bank-account (e.g. bank holidays / funds held up for administrative reason to be clarified), your application can be denied as some provincial IO's insist that there should be a transfer in every single of the 12 months.

2. When you transfer funds, it should be minimum 65.000 THB, so foresee a 'safety buffer' of say 2000 THB in case of possible bank-charge fees, exchange rate fluctations, etc.

There have been reports of people having their application denied because of a slight dip under 65.000 THB in one of their monthly transfers.

3. Same applies for the 800.000 THB / 400.000 THB in the bank.  Be sure to have a (small) buffer-zone, as you do not want to go below the requirement amount.  

I remember one report of somebody whose extension was denied because his bank had charged him the annual bank-account cost, leading to him dipping under the 800K.

Also separate accounts (a regular living expenses one and one dedicated for the IO financial requirements) will prove useful, to avoid accidentally withdrawing too much from your account and not being able to meet the financial requirements anymore for the running year.