Disrespected and insulted at the US embassy. Tourist visa denied to wife of US citizen for no specific reason.

[pgrahmm]

25 minutes ago, newnative said:

   I am so sorry this happened.  This exact same thing happened when my spouse applied for a travel visa.  We had spent hours and hours gathering all the support documents we could think of using the Embassy's guidelines and we felt we had a strong case for approval:  legally married in the US to an American citizen; received a travel visa in 2015 (Obama administration);  traveled to the US with me in June 2016 and returned to Thailand after 10 days (Obama administration); traveled to Australia, Europe, and other Asian countries and returned to Thailand; condo ownership in spouse's name; good lawyer job in Thailand (few good job prospects for a 53 year-old Thai in the US); new CR-V auto in spouse's name; strong ties to Thailand including family members and caring for his elderly mother; American spouse is living in Thailand and has been living in Thailand since 2010; large Thai bank accounts in spouse's name; and strong community ties. 

    A complete and utter waster of time because they did not look at one document.  The interview, which, of course, I was not allowed to be a part of, went much the same as your wife's.  Turned down for the same reason your wife was turned down. 

     I sent an email to the Embassy asking for an explanation of why my spouse was turned down and I got the answer that the interviewing officer (IO) is making the determination in the interview as to whether the applicant will disappear into America if he or she is granted a travel visa.  I think they used the polite term of 'non-returning' but basically that's what the IO is suppose to be determining.  Makes sense but how can the IO make a fair decision if none of the documents that support the case of the spouse returning to Thailand are even looked at?

     I, too, wrote my Senators and Congressman and I did get a letter of support from one of the Senators asking that my spouse be given every consideration, etc., etc., at the next interview.   It's been a number of months since our rejection and we are planning to try again later this month--likely the Senator's letter will be ignored along with everything else we show up with.  I have no evidence but I think the word is out with the Trump administration--we had no problem under Obama.

We had zero problem under Trump's presidency.....I think that's an easy blame, but not necessarily a truth.....

[Curt1591]

6 hours ago, bronzedude said:

After the four minute interview, the interviewer said, "I'm sorry, you cannot go to America."

How long were you and your wife separated? 

Most embassy employees will use the term "United States", not "America". I assume you are quoting her. 

Can we also assume that the marriage certificate is Thai?

Unfortunately, all that can really be documented is that she may plan to stay with you. Until such a time that she choses to immigrate, she needs to show compelling reason to return to Thailand. Her son, might seem to be an anchor. However, being from another father, he might not fit the bill.

[Kelsall]

1 hour ago, Washingtonmike said:

My Thsi wife got denied because she didn't have property or a house book.

Unless I missed it or the OP omitted it, that appears to have been the case with the OP's wife.

 

 

[fceligoj]

Other than her 11 year old son, she showed them very little for coming back to Thailand.  Does she own a house?  Does she own a car?  Does she have an occupation where she was given a letter from her employer indicating, how long she worked, her responsibilities and approval for being away from her job for 8 weeks? (8 weeks is a very long time to be gone- you should have said only 2-3 weeks.)  OR, does she won a business where she can provide them with the Business Registration?  They don't want to see only things that are tied to the trip and nothing showing firm reasons for coming back to Thailand.  They have to be confident that she will return.  All they saw was a trip with her American husband.  Oh, money in the bank can be immediately withdrawn and taken with you all, and from their perspective, they probably felt the money in the account really belonged to you!

Edited December 10, 2019 by fceligoj

[Fex Bluse]

Half of me must say to you I'm sad you received such treatment, assuming your intentions are as you state. 

 

The other half of me (with no specific disrespect to you or your wife) must rejoice that FINALLY Thais are getting back some of their due karma. 

 

I hope 1 out of 2 of them are denied, and always for arbitrary reasons. ????

[theonetrueaussie]

I do find it extremely funny when westerners complain when thais get rejected for visas in their country....I bet you also support the crackdown on visas to foreigners here, now you know how all of them feel....Under Obama he didn't care if people overstayed or came in illegally, The democrats still don't care in fact they support this 100%!!

Immigration officers under trump are clearly just enforcing the rules that were already there, A strict background check and verification of all documents would have been done before she even arrived at the embassy. Before the interview even began she was probably flagged as a high risk individual and the reason the interview was so short (in your mind) is that she obviously failed to convince the interviewer otherwise. 

Yes MANY thais go to America/ Australia/ Uk to either work illegaly or end up overstaying or filing for refugee status so the bar is extremely high and the Onus is on YOU and YOUR WIFE to prove otherwise....Any doubt in the interviewers mind and you will be denied!

Edited December 10, 2019 by theonetrueaussie

[Fex Bluse]

5 hours ago, JAFO said:

Sheryl's first 2 paragraphs are exactly why they deny people. I know at least 6 Thais that worked it for months, finally got their US Visa and never came back to Thailand and have been in the states for a numerous years now.

 

Unfortunately the screening process can be rather discouraging because it really is a "Call" made by the agent. Facts, documents or not, its all about the perception in the interview. 

 

Hope it all works out for you.  

 

 

It also does not help that so many Thais break the law and stay illegally to work, often criminal work like sex work. 

 

We have all seen the many stories about Thais all over the world - in places like Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, EU countries, US - working illegally in large numbers. 

[lopburi3]

1.  A recent marriage.

2.  Child from former partner (at least appears from the 9-11 years quoted).

3.  No employment ties to Thailand for either.

4.  An exit year for many here on retirement stays.

5.  A scheduled 2 months trip (longish for a tourist - especially at this cold time of the year).

 

As was said not only the normal tourist issue but the remain for change of status to immigrant in play for this application.

 

I had similar application approved many moons ago but key factor was had applied for approval to apply for immigrant visa as was intended to move to home in Florida but after approval we changed minds to remain here so never applied for immigrant visa.  Several years later at tourist visa interview that paperwork was key.

 

There is no right or wrong but key is to convince officer of intent to return to Thailand after trip.  Not easy I agree.

Edited December 10, 2019 by lopburi3

[Kleepanna]

What happened to you unfortunately is called K-A-G KEEPING AMERICA GREAT and that sucks to pay the fees and follow all application rules and requirements only to be denied in a few minutes. You guys should have received a legitimate interview with all supporting documents reviewed and considered.

[Kelsall]

I would suggest the OP abandon his plan to contact his Senators and Congressman and to write letters to the editor in several newspapers.  Those actions would be the kiss of death wrt getting his wife a visa.  Better to talk further with those who have successfully obtained a visa and develop a solid plan before proceeding.  The specific items he mentions in the 30 pages of documentation do not appear to be particularly useful to his cause.

[Thingamabob]

6 hours ago, khunyod said:

Welcome to America under the Trump regime. The State Department takes its lead from leadership, and aliens are suspect (especially from <deleted>hole countries https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/01/<deleted>hole-countries/580054/ ).

Nothing whatever to do with the Trump regime. 

 

6 hours ago, khunyod said:

Welcome to America under the Trump regime. The State Department takes its lead from leadership, and aliens are suspect (especially from <deleted>hole countries https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/01/<deleted>hole-countries/580054/ ).

...and you think Thai Immigration officials are difficult.

[seajae]

unfortunately a few bad apples screw it up for everyone else, I went through the same getting my wife to Australia for a visit, they were worried because several thais go there for a holiday and dont return because the conditions are so much better than Thailand, better money/work, living conditions, basically everything is cleaner and better for them, its the same with most western countries. If she can show she is employed, owns a house etc, has children then they usually get through because they have a reason to return, just being married is not enough these days as they are the ones that dont come back. Hopefully you can sort this out especially if all the paper work they ignored can show she has a definite reason to return, also  do you own a house etc here so that you have a reason to return

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by seajae

[tlandtday]

I wish all law abiding legally applying sincere requests could be approved but that is highly unlikely.  You can bet if there were not thousands of illegals running across the border every day and circumventing the proper process this would be a lesser problem for Thais.  Sadly the easiest route is simply to walk across the southern border. 

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, Nip said:

While trying to comprehend why a 'particular' Honorary Consul I knew would take up the position which is supposedly unpaid apart from €1100 per annum and the unchecked 'Diplomatic Bag' I then looked at the small print and discovered that the visa fees etc are or can be paid directly to the Honorary Consul. I often wondered could this have something to do with rejected applications? Also Transparency International last year noted the rise of Diplomatic Crime?

Think you are off topic. As far as I am aware the US has the Embassy in Bangkok and the Consulate in Chiang Mai. We have no Honorary Consuls ...

[newnative]

25 minutes ago, fceligoj said:

Other than her 11 year old son, she showed them very little for coming back to Thailand.  Does she own a house?  Does she own a car?  Does she have an occupation where she was given a letter from her employer indicating, how long she worked, her responsibilities and approval for being away from her job for 8 weeks? (8 weeks is a very long time to be gone- you should have said only 2-3 weeks.)  OR, does she won a business where she can provide them with the Business Registration?  They don't want to see only things that are tied to the trip and nothing showing firm reasons for coming back to Thailand.  They have to be confident that she will return.  All they saw was a trip with her American husband.  Oh, money in the bank can be immediately withdrawn and taken with you all, and from their perspective, they probably felt the money in the account really belonged to you!

     I don't think you read the OP's post carefully enough.  In both his and my case, the Interviewing Officer did not even look at any of the documents  we brought with us that would support our cases.  I can answer yes to all your questions in your post--and we had the documents--but, again, they didn't look at them.  I think they are just going through the motions and when you are rejected there is no appeal. The American spouse isn't even allowed in the room during the interview--which makes me wonder why.  In my case, we are a gay married couple.  Whether that played any part in the decision we'll never know.   

    

[The Theory]

How young is your wife ? 

If a big age difference, that could be the reason.

Edited December 10, 2019 by The Theory

[newnative]

29 minutes ago, theonetrueaussie said:

I do find it extremely funny when westerners complain when thais get rejected for visas in their country....I bet you also support the crackdown on visas to foreigners here, now you know how all of them feel....Under Obama he didn't care if people overstayed or came in illegally, The democrats still don't care in fact they support this 100%!!

Immigration officers under trump are clearly just enforcing the rules that were already there, A strict background check and verification of all documents would have been done before she even arrived at the embassy. Before the interview even began she was probably flagged as a high risk individual and the reason the interview was so short (in your mind) is that she obviously failed to convince the interviewer otherwise. 

Yes MANY thais go to America/ Australia/ Uk to either work illegaly or end up overstaying or filing for refugee status so the bar is extremely high and the Onus is on YOU and YOUR WIFE to prove otherwise....Any doubt in the interviewers mind and you will be denied!

     This is incorrect.  The Embassy had no idea what supporting documents we would be bringing to the interview and none of the documents we brought were examined before or during the interview.  We are told to bring documents to the interview that support the applicant returning to Thailand.  The main categories if I remember correctly are: Previous travel history; Family ties; Employment; Ties to the community; Property ownership and financial data.  None of the supporting documentation is downloaded to the on-line application.  You do the application on-line and get an interview date and time.  

[1FinickyOne]

Sorry for your problems... many years ago it was explained to me that the Thai person needed a very valid reason that they would return and that was mostly described in financial terms as earning more here than they could if working in the USA... and since there are doctors here that make less than janitors in USA, that means pretty much nobody qualifies...

 

That said, from what i have seen in 20 years, there were times when near every married couple I knew, including May-December, were getting visas and other times nobody was... it is no surprise to me that at this time visas may be tough to get... 

 

And it might be a good reminder for others from USA who are here, how little/no effort we can walk in with a 30 day stay... and with not much effort can retire and live here... 

[cmarshall]

I have encountered Americans who thought that having married a Thai woman they would find it easy to bring the Thai wife back with them to the States, whether to visit or to immigrate.  I am only speculating, but the opposite could be true.  In the case of the Op he would have been well-positioned to apply to change here status after they had entered the US, more so than a guy just bringing his girlfriend.

 

Then again, the incentives for the consular official, to the extent that there are any, encourage him to deny rather than admit.  There wouldn't be any repercussions for refusing to admit a legitimate tourist, while there could be if approved a tourist visa for a Thai who overstayed.  I don't know, however, if there is any mechanism to tie such an overstay to a particular official.

 

There are websites devoted to the visa process for wives of US citizens, which provide information about current practices  of State Department.  The OP should take a look at some of those.

[SpanishExpat]

Didn`t read all the comments and I just know the process for Schengen-Visa. Does your wife have a job? It´s weird, but this is often the thing the look most at in the embassies. I mean an official document where it states that she works at place xyz as xyz and will return at that specific date. 

Another problem (know it from UK friends) is that their gf`s got denied, because of the length of the first intended stay. 

Overall it`s clear you were not treated fair, but I guess one of those 2 reasons was a problem.

[kralledr]

sorry for off topic, we where as well there today, however they keeped my wifes passport, why?

[kevin612]

your wife is consider poor because you are financially support her. This is a short trip, many people can file for green card once they arrive USA and not return. You can’t guarantee whatsoever.

[onekoolguy]

3 minutes ago, kralledr said:

sorry for off topic, we where as well there today, however they keeped my wifes passport, why?

Probably to put the visa in it?

You didnt say they denied you?

[natway09]

I would be surprised if any country had a law that said a full explanation of denial is required

Just keep lightly knocking on the door. Good Luck

[pgrahmm]

11 minutes ago, kralledr said:

sorry for off topic, we where as well there today, however they keeped my wifes passport, why?

I believe that's good news - to attach the visa.....

On a NO the passport is returned.....

[SpanishExpat]

9 minutes ago, kevin612 said:

your wife is consider poor because you are financially support her. This is a short trip, many people can file for green card once they arrive USA and not return. You can’t guarantee whatsoever.

That`s not a reason. My gf earns around 80-90k+ Baht/month and the German embassy still always asked her, how I support her/ if I paid the flight tickets blabla. So we decided to play their game and now I always write I in the invitation letter that I support her. However...on the long-term I guess most important embassies will start with a visa-service, where you are not allowed to directly apply at the the embassy. That`s the case with the German embassy now...so no interview anymore and this might lead to a much higher denial rate in the future.

Edited December 10, 2019 by SpanishExpat

[Shot]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

   I am so sorry this happened.  This exact same thing happened when my spouse applied for a travel visa.  We had spent hours and hours gathering all the support documents we could think of using the Embassy's guidelines and we felt we had a strong case for approval:  legally married in the US to an American citizen; received a travel visa in 2015 (Obama administration);  traveled to the US with me in June 2016 and returned to Thailand after 10 days (Obama administration); traveled to Australia, Europe, and other Asian countries and returned to Thailand; condo ownership in spouse's name; good lawyer job in Thailand (few good job prospects for a 53 year-old Thai in the US); new CR-V auto in spouse's name; strong ties to Thailand including family members and caring for his elderly mother; American spouse is living in Thailand and has been living in Thailand since 2010; large Thai bank accounts in spouse's name; and strong community ties. 

    A complete and utter waster of time because they did not look at one document.  The interview, which, of course, I was not allowed to be a part of, went much the same as your wife's.  Turned down for the same reason your wife was turned down. 

     I sent an email to the Embassy asking for an explanation of why my spouse was turned down and I got the answer that the interviewing officer (IO) is making the determination in the interview as to whether the applicant will disappear into America if he or she is granted a travel visa.  I think they used the polite term of 'non-returning' but basically that's what the IO is suppose to be determining.  Makes sense but how can the IO make a fair decision if none of the documents that support the case of the spouse returning to Thailand are even looked at?

     I, too, wrote my Senators and Congressman and I did get a letter of support from one of the Senators asking that my spouse be given every consideration, etc., etc., at the next interview.   It's been a number of months since our rejection and we are planning to try again later this month--likely the Senator's letter will be ignored along with everything else we show up with.  I have no evidence but I think the word is out with the Trump administration--we had no problem under Obama.

In 2015 your partner was granted a "tourist" visa, I'm guessing a B2 tourist visa, it's a bit odd it wasn't good for 10 years as that seems to be the norm (I have done four of these). You then traveled to the US, got married, and those documents were presented to the IO the second time round.

 

You were denied for the second visa because you didn't apply for the correct visa the first time round. You should have applied for a K1 fiancé visa. The IO made the right call.

 

"While it is technically possible for a fiancé to enter the United States on a B1 or B2 visitor visa, it’s highly discouraged and it may even be fraudulent. The K-1 visa is designed specifically for the purpose of coming to the United States for marriage to a U.S. citizen fiancé."

 

https://citizenpath.com/faq/fiance-b1-b2-visa-marriage/

Edited December 10, 2019 by Shot

[Captain 776]

I helped with 3 in the last year.

my wife = 10 yr Visa

wife friend = 10 yr Visa

single Chinese woman = 1 yr Visa

 

All 3 went thru very easy the first time, no issues.

 

it seems to have a lot with who interviews the person, my wife had all the paperwork........interviewer didn’t ask to see a thing, was very talkative and jovial telling my wife what a great time she would have in Boston.

 

wife friend.........interviewer not really friendly, didn’t ask much, still gave 10 yrs

 

Chinese girl, the lady interviewing seemed mad, was rude, didn’t believe she would leave and return to China, so only 1 yr.

[pgrahmm]

25 minutes ago, newnative said:

     This is incorrect.  The Embassy had no idea what supporting documents we would be bringing to the interview and none of the documents we brought were examined before or during the interview.  We are told to bring documents to the interview that support the applicant returning to Thailand.  The main categories if I remember correctly are: Previous travel history; Family ties; Employment; Ties to the community; Property ownership and financial data.  None of the supporting documentation is downloaded to the on-line application.  You do the application on-line and get an interview date and time.  

 

Not necessarily.....

 

We went through a visa service.....I thought what they wanted was overkill - much more than the process dictated as needed, but they built a complete history & file.....

This complete file was scanned & sent to the consulate prior to any physical appointment.....I'm assuming this was all reviewed before the appointment date....

On the day of the interview we were handed the actual file to go to the consulate.....I was not allowed in and waited outside with many others....In our case they kept my wife's passport so they could affix the visa....We did not know what the conditions/duration would be, but it turned out to be a 10 year visa.....

[Shot]

7 minutes ago, Captain 776 said:

I helped with 3 in the last year.

my wife = 10 yr Visa

wife friend = 10 yr Visa

single Chinese woman = 1 yr Visa

 

All 3 went thru very easy the first time, no issues.

 

it seems to have a lot with who interviews the person, my wife had all the paperwork........interviewer didn’t ask to see a thing, was very talkative and jovial telling my wife what a great time she would have in Boston.

 

wife friend.........interviewer not really friendly, didn’t ask much, still gave 10 yrs

 

Chinese girl, the lady interviewing seemed mad, was rude, didn’t believe she would leave and return to China, so only 1 yr.

I did one this year for my GFs younger sister. She was approved for a 10 year B2. She will be traveling with us the US in April for three weeks. GF and her/our two kids approved 8 years ago.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Shot