UK PM Johnson cannot keep Scotland in union against its will: Sturgeon

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

You have benefited from the infrastructure of the last 300+ years, the same as the rest of us. That's not the issue. As an example, it's the projected future infrastructure for Scotland that's already been paid for by the whole of the UK, but will only benefit Scotland that I'm talking about.

Any costs would mean that Scotland only paid about 9% of the total but would receive 100% of the benefit while the rest of the uk pay 91% of the cost but receive zero % of the benefits. That sort of anomaly has got to be included as part of any divorce settlement. 

Can you give specific examples of the works you are talking about? Most infrastructure is paid for by Holyrood out of the Scottish block grant. Westminster does fund National Infrastructure Projects but I am unaware if any are being executed in Scotland. But you raise a good point. Scotland is contributing to HS2, the London Sewer Upgrades, Crossrail to name a few National Infrastructure projects so I would like to see a full refund of all those.

[john terry1001]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Can you give specific examples of the works you are talking about? Most infrastructure is paid for by Holyrood out of the Scottish block grant. Westminster does fund National Infrastructure Projects but I am unaware if any are being executed in Scotland. But you raise a good point. Scotland is contributing to HS2, the London Sewer Upgrades, Crossrail to name a few National Infrastructure projects so I would like to see a full refund of all those.

According to the Government, Forty new hospitals are going to be built. Are you suggesting none are earmarked for Scotland?

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

According to the Government, Forty new hospitals are going to be built. Are you suggesting none are earmarked for Scotland?

When Westminster talks about the NHS, invariably they mean the English (and possibly Welsh) NHS only. So yes, I am suggesting that none will be built in Scotland.

 

General election 2019: How many 'new' NHS hospitals are Conservatives building?

[john terry1001]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

When Westminster talks about the NHS, invariably they mean the English (and possibly Welsh) NHS only. So yes, I am suggesting that none will be built in Scotland.

 

General election 2019: How many 'new' NHS hospitals are Conservatives building?

I can't see anything in the link you provided that says no hospitals will be built in Scotland. I have seen no such comment anywhere to back up your comments. Please provide another link with some proof.

[Nigel Garvie]

9 minutes ago, tpinvest said:

That whingeing ginger jock dwarf has nothing better to do with her life - very sad under-achiever.

No wonder all the jocks come here to find a woman who knows when to shut up!!!

Someone needs to tell her Scotland is not a country, it's a defeated province of England and will stay so until we decide otherwise. Her vote tally in the recent election was a mere 3% the same as Farage's non-party, that should put things into perspective

 

TROLL ALERT. Learn some history before embarrassing yourself by posting nonsense.

The king James 6th of Scotland became James 1st of England. (Referred to as the Union of the crowns) No defeat - Scotland still a country.

In 1707 the union of the parliaments came about when Scotland (Whose parliamentary landed scum had largely been bought off) voted of their own free will for said UNION. No defeat - Scotland still a country.  

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, john terry1001 said:

I can't see anything in the link you provided that says no hospitals will be built in Scotland. I have seen no such comment anywhere to back up your comments. Please provide another link with some proof.

I am not trying to be obtuse, but the NHS in Scotland is a devolved matter so a new hospital would invariably be for the Scottish Gov to decide upon. That and... how do you propose I prove a negative?

[Basil B]

32 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

... the London Sewer Upgrades, Crossrail to name a few National Infrastructure projects so I would like to see a full refund of all those.

And did not the EU contribute as well?

 

As for HS2 is Europe still committed?

[melvinmelvin]

26 minutes ago, tpinvest said:

That whingeing ginger jock dwarf has nothing better to do with her life - very sad under-achiever.

No wonder all the jocks come here to find a woman who knows when to shut up!!!

Someone needs to tell her Scotland is not a country, it's a defeated province of England and will stay so until we decide otherwise. Her vote tally in the recent election was a mere 3% the same as Farage's non-party, that should put things into perspective

 

 

thats surely the kind of Xmas message that will make jocks feel comfortable in the union

 

[tpinvest]

Please note - Countries have Kings or Presidents, their own armies, airforces and navies, diplomatic services, a place in the UN - I could go on but don't have a PHD in whingeing like that lot north of Hadrians great wall, Geordies excluded!!!

[john terry1001]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am not trying to be obtuse, but the NHS in Scotland is a devolved matter so a new hospital would invariably be for the Scottish Gov to decide upon. That and... how do you propose I prove a negative?

It's not for me to propose anything. 

 

I simply suggested that, with the UK National Government declaring they would be building forty new hospitals, Scotland would be getting their fair share, and that the majority of the cost of building those hospitals would be borne by UK Central Government.

 

You were the one that said no new hospitals would be built in Scotland and, as I can find no link to a reference about that I asked you to provide one. I don't care where it came from or who said it ..........as long as it's relatively recent and 100% accurate.

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

It's not for me to propose anything. 

 

I simply suggested that, with the UK National Government declaring they would be building forty new hospitals, Scotland would be getting their fair share, and that the majority of the cost of building those hospitals would be borne by UK Central Government.

 

You were the one that said no new hospitals would be built in Scotland and, as I can find no link to a reference about that I asked you to provide one. I don't care where it came from or who said it ..........as long as it's relatively recent and 100% accurate.

Of the 40 proposed new hospitals, Johnson has been characteristically vague. Details of 6 health trusts benefiting have been announced - none of which are in Scotland. Until Johnson comes forth with fuller details, it is not possible to conclude where all will be sited. But, as I have already explained to you, Scottish NHS is devolved so it would be extraordinary and wholly unexpected for Scotland to benefit from this particular proposal. The only impact would most likely be that the block grant will be affected positively by increased English expenditure. 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

According to the Government, Forty new hospitals are going to be built. Are you suggesting none are earmarked for Scotland?

So those 40 new hospitals aside, what other Westminster funded projects will you expect recompense for?

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, tpinvest said:

Please note - Countries have Kings or Presidents, their own armies, airforces and navies, diplomatic services, a place in the UN - I could go on but don't have a PHD in whingeing like that lot north of Hadrians great wall, Geordies excluded!!!

 

same same me,

I dont have a PhD in whingeing either, even though I stem from north of said wall

 

whats your PhD field?

 

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

So those 40 new hospitals aside, what other Westminster funded projects will you expect recompense for?

The new hospitals are part of the HiP , nothing has been allocated to Scotland

 

see appendix attached to document HIP

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-infrastructure-plan

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

(took me a while to find those relevant entries again,

 this TVF "software" is so much worse than what I was used to use, hopeless case this TVF app is)

 

Now; some reasons why I didn't comment on your entry;

+ didna detect a question in it

+ your opinion is OK and different from mine, so what? no need to beat that to death

+ hammering on this could easily lead to an exchange of views linked to

   constitutional law and other legal matters, that would somewhat divert from the gist of this thread

+ I made my point, so did you, OK to leave it at that

 

Having said that, I also think that the last point i my entry is very relevant.

 

As you say, emotions easily run high when discussing these issues,

(who would have thought pommies were capable of emotions outside of football?)

with boiloing/simmering emotions it often is fruitful to focus on formalities

 

 

Emotional reasons, must be Nessie then the English will have to say goodbye to.

[Kwasaki]

On 12/16/2019 at 5:23 AM, webfact said:

Scotland's first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, warned Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Sunday that he could not keep Scotland in the United Kingdom against the country's will.

Then Fxx deleted, deleted, deleted p off then, good riddance.  ????

[RuamRudy]

30 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Then Fxx deleted, deleted, deleted p off then, good riddance.  ????

You do realise, don't you, that it is nothing personal?

[englishoak]

Scots TV once its independent.

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, englishoak said:

Scots TV once its independent.

 

 

so Wednesdays set aside for historical lessons,

what about Mondays and Fridays?

 

[englishoak]

13 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

so Wednesdays set aside for historical lessons,

what about Mondays and Fridays?

 

Pub on Fridays and bagpipe lessons mondays, mandatory of course.

[JAG]

2 hours ago, englishoak said:

Pub on Fridays and bagpipe lessons mondays, mandatory of course.

Saturday afternoons sport - Celtic v Rangers. A demonstration  (were one needed) of tolerance openmindedness and goodwill throughout the community on the sporting field.

[Rookiescot]

7 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Then Fxx deleted, deleted, deleted p off then, good riddance.  ????

We are trying to but for some reason Westminster and little Englanders refuse to let us go.

 

[Rookiescot]

18 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

And that's just the start of paying your way yourselves. You'll have to:

 

Set up and pay for your own health system. No free NHS available to you after independence.

 

Pay for your own local Government. No more subsidies from the UK.

 

Set up and pay for your own Social Services system. Again no more UK subsidies.

 

No more going south for work. As an independent Nation, no more slipping over the border, you'll have to apply for visas under the new points based immigration system, just like people from any other country.

 

And Scottish pensioners, do you realise the value of any of your pensions paid by the UK Government will be frozen from the day you become an Independent Country, the same as it is for all of us who live outside the UK. No more annual increases from the UK for you........................????

 

???? ???? ???? ???? ????

That stuff is already paid for by the Scottish government from its block grant.

As for the pensions. Are you saying that post independence Westminster is going to be so spiteful that it will hurt pensioners in retaliation for Scotland having the temerity to leave?

Desperate stuff.

[Mansell]

On 12/16/2019 at 6:48 PM, evadgib said:

- What about currency? &

- How many of the people you're slagging off qualify for Irish, Scottish or other EU citizenship courtesy of their historic ancestory if they ever bothered to look into it? My guess is that they would collectively outnumber the Scots by some considerable margin.

There already is a Scottish pound.

And who did I slag off? I stated a fact that that the English on here rise up about Scotland getting independence......not exactly slagging anybody. 

[transam]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

That stuff is already paid for by the Scottish government from its block grant.

As for the pensions. Are you saying that post independence Westminster is going to be so spiteful that it will hurt pensioners in retaliation for Scotland having the temerity to leave?

Desperate stuff.

Well they stuffed me for living in LOS.....????...............????

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Well they stuffed me for living in LOS.....????...............????

They stuffed you because you are not yet dead; like they do to most pensioners unless they are billionaire press barons or peers of the realm. 

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

They stuffed you because you are not yet dead; like they do to most pensioners unless they are billionaire press barons or peers of the realm. 

Stuffing humans after they are dead, is that Anthropodermy?

[Solinvictus]

He needs to fix that hair and tuck in his shirt. ????

[melvinmelvin]

 

I see in the news that Nico. Stur. now is in the process of requesting an OK from down south

in order to go through with another indep. referendum.

 

dunno, but kinda doubt she will get her desires fulfilled,

at least - this will keep the debate going . . . .

 

[RuamRudy]

55 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I see in the news that Nico. Stur. now is in the process of requesting an OK from down south

in order to go through with another indep. referendum.

 

dunno, but kinda doubt she will get her desires fulfilled,

at least - this will keep the debate going . . . .

 

Without the request, there cannot be the denial. The denial accomplishes 2 things - firstly, a party with 10% of MPs in Scotland is dictating the rules - that will obviously go down badly with the masses, but more importantly, without the denial, the legal challenges cannot commence. Next step will, I am sure, be the courts. The SG has had 3 years to prepare their case. I suspect that it is very compelling.