Preparing for my death.

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 12:01 PM, SteveK said:

That's a good idea. I will write a sealed letter to be opened upon my death with my ATM pin. No need for lawyers fees, I gather her friend that I mentioned ended up losing over 200k through them. I don't want any of my money going to lawyers if possible.

That won't work, they will freeze your account when dead. Joined account will be better, keep her ATM card and PIN in a sealed letter.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

On 12/19/2019 at 11:53 AM, mauGR1 said:

Sorry to hear that, and i'm not really an expert, but what about a joint bank account with your wife ?

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it's got his name on it it's frozen.

Are you absolutely sure about that @thaibeachlovers? It certainly would not be the case in western countries and I can't believe that Thailand would be any different. Their banking regulations do seem to mirror those of the major western systems.

 

A joint bank account is the method I would recommend to the O/P, just as it was recommended to us by the Manager in our Krungsri branch.

 

If @SteveK is concerned about his wife plundering the account, then simply don't allow her access to the ATM card, on-line banking or the passbook. Sounds a bit harsh IMO but 'needs must' as they say.

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Moonlover

[khunPer]

On 12/19/2019 at 5:11 AM, SteveK said:

I don't really have possessions, just a bank balance. Would it be easier to just leave her my atm pin rather than have the hassle of lawyers, fees and paperwork?

Probably yes, I've heard about others that has prepared for worst casescenario like that, and unfortunately also a few cases where it happened – sad, traffic accidents, so way too early – I was told that withdraw shall be done immediately before the account is frozen.

 

If you have more fund than can be instantly withdrawn by ATM – mind the maximum limit per day – you could split the bank savings into two accounts, where one being in two names, shared with your wife. I have for example a "rainy day" emergency account like that, so others than I – i.e. my girlfriend – have access to funds, should anything happen to me; which also could be paying hospital bills or whatever.

 

Another thing is to make a Last Will with specifications – here-under what do be done with your remains like cremation and ceremony – which will remove any doubts, like your wife is the sole heir. Just a handwritten document in your native language signed with witnesses is enough for being a legal document, eventually save time by also having it translatged to Thai, so in dual language, before signing it. Remember to write the date when you sign it. You can also go to the amphor office and sign it there – get your wife to check in advance if you need to bring you own witness/witnesses – and either leave it on file by the amphor, or just bring it home with an official notary stamp. If your case is not complicated – you leave everything to your wife – you don't need a lawyer, anything you write and sign can be legal as Last Will in Thailand (according to the book "Thai Law for Foreigners").

 

I would – well, I have – make a Last Will, together with the bank solution with ATM pin-code and eventually a shared account, to remove any doubt.

[DJ54]

You should check with your bank about their policy when someone 

gpes on to the other side.

 

i do know what happened to me on two occasions I was assumed dead..... but not. 

 

Joint account. Two separate times same bank I’ve used for 29 years. Two times an outside agency reported me as deceased. 

The account was immediately locked down no one had access. 

 

I will I’ll save you a long story both times I was in/lived APAC first 

time I had to personally go to social security in USA get a letter to take to bank. Had 5 different government issued ID and passport.

Bank wouldn’t take me standing in front of them would not accept

needed SS letter.

 

second time tried signing online account as previous couldn’t get

signed on. Called the bank told can’t give our closed reason on phone come to branch... I’m in China. Then I said let me guess I’m 

dead again...

 

Good Luck

[ubonr1971]

You look young in the photo. 

 

You should do a simple Will and assign an executor and your wife as the beneficiary. Dont give PIN ... risk of fraud

[twix38]

My father died earlier this year in chuangmai. He did not make a Will and he died 1 week before my already booked flight to visit him where we were going to do a joint bank account.

 

So, although the death aspect entailed a steep learning curve in procedure and burocracy, I will address only the lack of a will issue.

 

My father only had a bank account - no property, car etc

 

I therefore needed to employ a lawyer and had to get together paperwork from UK and a consent form for mother and brother which then was notorised. This was obviously timeu consuming and required being in UK. However on return with all documents I attended court with my lawyer and it only lasted 15 minutes. Then waited 30 days in case any objections etc and my lawyer arranged funds transfer into my bank account now all completed.

 

My point is.....

The cost of a Will and probate sounds like it's approx 40k in total. My lawyer fee was 40k. 

Monies if otherwise put in joint account cause a problem if using 800k for immigration as a joint account needs 1.6m balance or lose 800k as cannot have immigration 800k in joint account. 

A Will is best if you have a trustworthy lawyer and assets in thailand but really it's not so bad just getting the paperwork and going to court and the joint account option can't really be certain when funds frozen on death , not legal route and probably going to exclude immigration money. 

 

I found my father's preferred option of joint account- though he died before we could achieve this. Would still have meant going to court for the immigration money or losing it and going to court without any Will was only a bit more troublesome on the paperwork angle that's required and similar cost to doing a Will and probate. Had we done joint account I would have still had to get a lawyer to get immigration 800k in my circumstances.

Edited December 20, 2019 by twix38

[micmichd]

22 hours ago, SteveK said:

No, shes's the only person in my life who could lay any claim to my assets.

Be careful. Once you're dead, all kinds of vultures will be around (including your home government)   So better make a clear will which cannot be misunderstood. 

[Krataiboy]

On 12/19/2019 at 11:55 AM, SteveK said:

That's a good idea, but if I put all of money in there she will spend it. So most of my money will still be in my account when I die.

You can have organise a joint bank account from which money cannot be withdrawn without the simultaneous signatures of both you and your partner.

Check with your bank, but my understanding is that on production of your death certificate your partner will be able to access the account.

Alternatively, why not just make a simple do-it-yourself Thai will leaving your bank money to your partner?

Edited December 20, 2019 by Krataiboy

[Just Weird]

 

22 hours ago, Tagged said:

For a last will, you need whitnesses. 

 

Found this one, and seems straight forward to me

 

https://info.legalzoom.com/make-lawyer-4213.html

Witnesses are needed for any will to be valid.

[SteveK]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

That won't work, they will freeze your account when dead. Joined account will be better, keep her ATM card and PIN in a sealed letter.

they won't freeze my account unless someone tells them that I have died.

[Tagged]

1 minute ago, Just Weird said:

 

Witnesses are needed for any will to be valid.

Im sure I did not state anything else ???? 

[Just Weird]

17 hours ago, SteveK said:

The main aim of this thread is to avoid outrageous lawyers fees. Yes, I know that leaving my ATM card and PIN is not the correct way of doing things, but would this really be considered as theft as one poster has mentioned?

No, it would be fraud.

[FritsSikkink]

46 minutes ago, SteveK said:

they won't freeze my account unless someone tells them that I have died.

They will find your body, police will be informed, your embassy, local government agencies and banks.

It is a crime to use a bank account from a person who died.

Edited December 20, 2019 by FritsSikkink

[Orton Rd]

18 hours ago, steven100 said:

This topic is too sad for me …. 

Cheer up it's something to look forward to, no more bills or nagging Mrs ????

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

23 hours ago, Tagged said:

For a last will, you need witnesses. //

Witnesses are needed for any will to be valid.

I am not at all a specialist, but I think that it's not true. 

Doesn't Thailand accept holographic testaments ?  They don't need witness.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

You can have organise a joint bank account from which money cannot be withdrawn without the simultaneous signatures of both you and your partner.

Check with your bank, but my understanding is that on production of your death certificate your partner will be able to access the account.

Alternatively, why not just make a simple do-it-yourself Thai will leaving your bank money to your partner?

 "...Check with your bank, but my understanding is that on production of your death certificate your partner will be able to access the account."

 

I rather doubt that would be true.

 

It's possible that the deceased (with or without a will) wishes that the wife gets nothing on his death and wants his estate passed to some other person.

 

Also, it's possible that the deceased wish that his/her entire estate be passed to another person is all stated in a will but the bank manager has no copy of that will, and there is no reason or law etc., indicating that the bank manger should have a copy of the will.

 

Therefore the bank manager should not be making any decisions about withdrawal of funds after the death of the account holder.

 

Further even if the bank manager did have a copy of an original / earlier the will there is no absolute way the bank manager knows if that will has since been cancelled or adjusted in terms of beneficiaries. 

 

Any bank manager should be well aware of all of the above and know that he/she has no authority whatever to be deciding who should get any funds from the accounts of the deceased.

 

 

[Krataiboy]

What you say makes sense. I was merely passing on - with my recommendation that he check first - what my wife had been told by her/our bank.

 

Looks like I need to do some checking for myself!

[SteveK]

I mean obviously after I have kicked the bucket not much will be of concern to me. I just prefer to think that because in my situation there is only one claimant to my estate, and it's simply a bank balance and not much else, we could avoid getting gipped by some Thai lawyer so that my wife can get all of my money.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

What you say makes sense. I was merely passing on - with my recommendation that he check first - what my wife had been told by her/our bank.

 

Looks like I need to do some checking for myself!

Sure, over many years many TV members have shared what they were told by local bank managers, some of which has no logic or even common sense, plus checking with the various head offices of the banks reveals that local managers make it up as they go along and also seems that some banks at HO level have no real policies on these points.

 

Worst I've read was where a local bank manager told a farang and his Thai wife, 'I'll make it very easy, no need for documents, just give all your money to me, I'll hold it and when you die I'll give it to your wife'.

 

The HO of the bank was asked to verify is this was bank policy, was ethical etc.

Response, 'your local manager is just trying to help you'. 

 

[Grusa]

8 hours ago, Saltire said:

Mmm now where can I get my Thai copy proof read? I am generaly both a cautious and trusting person but I believe this happens.

Any competent and unassociated translation service should do it, about 400 - 1000 baht per A4 page. Or, try Google translate, or a teacher.

[Guest]

I also only have bank accounts, but you will be surprised how much trouble your partner can end up in by "liberating" your account.  For 400 Baht, you can get a perfect Thai / English Template --- Last Will and Testament ... and in a about an hour ... BINGO ... "Problem Resolved" ... My wife has her copy, and all the bank account information ... so I rest easy, knowing she is all set.  DM me ... for more details.

[Ron jeremy]

On December 18, 2019 at 11:55 PM, SteveK said:

That's a good idea, but if I put all of money in there she will spend it. So most of my money will still be in my account when I die.

That's quite sad to hear.

[Tounge Thaied]

1 minute ago, Ron jeremy said:

That's quite sad to hear.

Become your own bank. Put a large secure safe at home. Put your cash or gold in there. Leave only the limited required that you need in the bank account. You will of course need to leave the safe access information with some you can trust to be revealed upon your death. 

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

Sure, over many years many TV members have shared what they were told by local bank managers, some of which has no logic or even common sense, plus checking with the various head offices of the banks reveals that local managers make it up as they go along and also seems that some banks at HO level have no real policies on these points.

 

Worst I've read was where a local bank manager told a farang and his Thai wife, 'I'll make it very easy, no need for documents, just give all your money to me, I'll hold it and when you die I'll give it to your wife'.

 

The HO of the bank was asked to verify is this was bank policy, was ethical etc.

Response, 'your local manager is just trying to help you'. 

 

I've made a will for my Thai assets, with my wife as sole beneficiary and executor. She will be able to seek probate at the local court without even needing a solicitor.  

 

By the sound of it, this is probably the most sensible way for expats to protect any partner.

[digibum]

On 12/19/2019 at 11:55 AM, SteveK said:

That's a good idea, but if I put all of money in there she will spend it. So most of my money will still be in my account when I die.

What's your nationality?  I ask because in the US you can create a trust that lives on well after you.  Specify that the trust only pays her out a % of the value of the estate every year so neither her nor anyone else can drain it.  Assets belong to the trust and you can be the trustee until death.  Once you pass, the trust has to follow specific rules on how it distributes the money left in the trust.  Very hard to break your plan both in the US and in Thailand. 

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, SteveK said:

I mean obviously after I have kicked the bucket not much will be of concern to me. I just prefer to think that because in my situation there is only one claimant to my estate, and it's simply a bank balance and not much else, we could avoid getting gipped by some Thai lawyer so that my wife can get all of my money.

And IMHO you are very wise to 'beware' of lawyers both many Thai and many of the foreign lawyers in Thailand.  

[digibum]

1 hour ago, Ron jeremy said:

That's quite sad to hear.

It is sad to hear.  But, if you understand the power of Thai culture, you realize that it's less about her and the peer pressure. 

 

Like I said in my previous post, create a trust and put the bad decisions out of her reach. 

[scorecard]

18 minutes ago, digibum said:

It is sad to hear.  But, if you understand the power of Thai culture, you realize that it's less about her and the peer pressure. 

 

Like I said in my previous post, create a trust and put the bad decisions out of her reach. 

 Certainly agree to the peer pressure, several years back my Thai son decided to make a will partly of the loudmouth vultures in his wife's family.

 

He totally trusts his wife but has great concerns that, when he dies they will but strong pressure on his wife to sell house and land (worth quite a lot) and give the proceeds to them, and son's wife is quite frightened of her all older siblings.

 

So son made a simple will, everything left jointly and equally to his three daughters, 2 of whom are old enough to understand the purpose and process and hate and ignore their aunts and uncles. This was all with the strong support of son's wife because it relieved her of sibling pressure. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by scorecard

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/20/2019 at 6:24 PM, FritsSikkink said:

That won't work, they will freeze your account when dead. Joined account will be better, keep her ATM card and PIN in a sealed letter.

Wouldn't they freeze a joint account as well? IMO the reason for this very good rule is to stop people murdering their partners to get the money. Being able to get it from a joint account would circumvent the rules.

[CarlosDanger]

Oh wow sorry to hear that but I actually have been wondering where can you buy cheap coffins around here? They don’t sell them at Tesco Lotus or the mall I checked. Anyway sorry you’re dying dude. Just give her the PIN number and buy the coffin ⚰️ now. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by CarlosDanger