Lion Pub closed permanently.

[Tomahawk21]

4 hours ago, tomauasia said:

Owned by Keith lock stock and barrel no landlord

and that why hes still open

[Leaver]

On 12/27/2019 at 12:46 PM, TaaSaparot said:

Seen every one since 1989.

I bet you haven't seen one as low as this one, possibly with the exception of the tsunami. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Leaver

[neeray]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 2:11 AM, roger101 said:

I was in he Lion Pub a week or so ago and I saw a Thai man walking round, looking ,tapping on walls. I thought to myself its the sort of thing a prospective buyer would do (or possibly the landlord). I hoped then they would not be selling it.

Between my condo and Tigglebitties there were 10 bars (I've lived there for 13 years) now only the Caddy Shack is left.

The Loin pub was handy as I could go in there while my wife shopped at the market

I like how you altered the name from Lion Pub in the first sentence to Loin Pub in the last sentence. That's a handy bit of massaging. Very apropos.

[TaaSaparot]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

I bet you haven't seen one as low as this one, possibly with the exception of the tsunami. 

LOL .... not even close.

 

You should have seen 1993, which was the quietest I have ever seen.

 

The only one that comes close was when the Yellow Shirts closed Suwanapoom, and that downturn only really lasted a month.

 

The Tsunami? ... why would you think that would affect Pattaya?

Edited December 29, 2019 by TaaSaparot

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

LOL .... not even close.

 

You should have seen 1993, which was the quietest I have ever seen.

 

The only one that comes close was when the Yellow Shirts closed Suwanapoom, and that downturn only really lasted a month.

 

The Tsunami? ... why would you think that would affect Pattaya?

I wouldn't call 1 month a high season, even if that 1 month was in the middle of high season, but yes, the airport shut down had a major effect on tourism, so did the volcano. 

 

I wasn't here in 1993.  What caused that downturn?

 

I mentioned the tsunami because I am hearing from friends down south that it's dead in many of the well known tourist areas, and was talking about high season across Thailand.

 

Once again, I should clarify, the numbers may very well be up, but they are not spending money in traditional hospitality establishments.

 

So, whilst there may be a lot of people walking around, that's no good to bars if they buy beer from 7/11's or supermarkets, and no good for restaurants if they buy cheap eats from the same. 

[TaaSaparot]

16 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I wouldn't call 1 month a high season

Who did?

16 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I mentioned the tsunami because I am hearing from friends down south that it's dead in many of the well known tourist areas, and was talking about high season across Thailand.

Not a clue what is relevant about this

 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

So, whilst there may be a lot of people walking around, that's no good to bars if they buy beer from 7/11's or supermarkets, and no good for restaurants if they buy cheap eats from the same. 

Oh I see, High Season numbers can only be calculated by your means?

 

In any High Season, good businesses will always survive, while the poorly run ones will fail, and look for excuses. What business do you own?

[Leaver]

12 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

Who did?

So, peak season is included in your high season.  Is that correct?  I differentiate between the two.  It's actually called peak season on many hotel booking sites.

 

13 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

Not a clue what is relevant about this

 

So, are we just talking about high season in Pattaya, or high season across Thailand.  From what I see here, and speaking to friends elsewhere, high season is down, across the board.

 

You are saying it's not, so percentage wise, where do you rate this Pattaya high season, compared to the last five high seasons?

 

15 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

Oh I see, High Season numbers can only be calculated by your means?

 

No, high season is usually calculated by profits.  See all those For sale signs, on top of the closures?  Owners don't close or sell, if they are making money.

 

16 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

In any High Season, good businesses will always survive, while the poorly run ones will fail, and look for excuses. What business do you own?

 

I don't own a business here.  Never would here.  Not worth the head <deleted>, for a few baht.

 

Business 101 is good businesses survive, whilst others fail, however, however, in Thailand, there are other variables.

 

In this case, it's reported the Thai landlord raised the rent, obviously to an amount the owner knew the business could not sustain, so he closed the doors.  I believe this was after a renovation was done 6 months ago.  Would you say this owner poorly run his business, or was a victim of a greedy Thai landlord.  

 

Many Thai landlords have several properties.  Thai Business 101.  Money go down, put price up.  What do you think they do to renewing tenants when they have a vacant properties?   

[LennyW]

I know this is in the Pattaya forum but some people need to take the blinkers off if they want to gauge tourist number, i was in Rayong last week...not that far from Pattaya, the Marriot was full, beach side restaurants were full and thriving, Ban Phae was thronging with foreign tourists coming and going to the islands. All shopkeepers, hoteliers, drivers etc. that we met were very upbeat about the current season.

 am quite sure many other areas will be the same...dont base everything on the current state of central Pattaya.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, LennyW said:

I know this is in the Pattaya forum but some people need to take the blinkers off if they want to gauge tourist number, i was in Rayong last week...not that far from Pattaya, the Marriot was full, beach side restaurants were full and thriving, Ban Phae was thronging with foreign tourists coming and going to the islands. All shopkeepers, hoteliers, drivers etc. that we met were very upbeat about the current season.

 am quite sure many other areas will be the same...dont base everything on the current state of central Pattaya.

Once again, we are in peak season, which is not technically high season. 

 

What you describe is not what I am hearing from friends on islands down south, for the HIGH SEASON. 

[LennyW]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

No, high season is usually calculated by profits.  See all those For sale signs, on top of the closures?  Owners don't close or sell, if they are making money.

Been here since the mid-nineties and this is quite normal to see, and for a very good reason....easy to catch a smitten new arrival when the new squeeze says "bar good business tilak" kaching....lets do it darkling! Nothing at all new in this. Some survive some dont.....rinse and repeat for the next year!

Edited December 29, 2019 by LennyW

[LennyW]

Just now, Leaver said:

Once again, we are in peak season, which is not technically high season. 

 

What you describe is not what I am hearing from friends on islands down south, for the HIGH SEASON. 

Only describing my own findings, would never rely on second hand info from anyone else.

[Don Mega]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

 

What you describe is not what I am hearing from friends on islands down south, for the HIGH SEASON. 

Technically it is not high season................. your words !!

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, LennyW said:

Been here since the mid-nineties and this is quite normal to see, and for a very good reason....easy to catch a smitten new arrival when the new squeeze says "bar good business tilak" kaching....lets do it darkling! Nothing at all new in this.

With the majority of tourists here now Chinese and Indians, there's no "tilak" to ask to buy a bar for them, so no, "kaching.  ????

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Technically it is not high season................. your words !!

Yes.  that's correct.  Like I have said, this is the 2 week peak season.

 

Are business owners expecting 2 weeks of peak season to get them through the low season? 

[RichardColeman]

On 12/23/2019 at 9:42 PM, SidJames said:

the clever landlord can pat himself on the back & count the 1000000's of baht he'll now not be getting in rent & keymoney

Depends on what 'imagined faults' the landlord suddenly finds wrong

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Yes.  that's correct.  Like I have said, this is the 2 week peak season.

 

Are business owners expecting 2 weeks of peak season to get them through the low season? 

High season October-April. Low season - May-September. Peak season Two weeks of Christmas. Has been that way for many years. Only change is that the high season is getting nibbled away at either end and peak season is shrinking towards one week at Christmas/New Year. Also numbers of farangs is down across the board. Particularly noticable in the last 12 months.

 

Bars have always just ticked over in the low season, laying off staff and not making a profit. Peak season has always been bonanza time with many establishments putting prices up at Christmas/New Year.

 

Bars opening and closing? Hard to say if more are closing than opening but the disparity is not as great as some people think. A number of successful bars have opened in the last 12 months. It's all about having a USP, good business model, top girls and good management. There never has been room for some Barnsley trucker who buys a bar for his "teerak".

 

The Baku group have opened several bars/ gogos/ GCs recently, the majority of which are successful and making money, which IMO bodes well for the Avenue project. Nightwish continue to expand.

 

Gentlemens clubs are the new business model with both Nightwish and Baku having dipped their toes in that market. Babylon, open for a few months, not great location but packed out on a Friday night, standing room only.

 

The death of Pattaya is greatly exaggerated, but it is changing, some would say for the better, some not.

[BestB]

On 12/23/2019 at 7:54 AM, TaaSaparot said:

None of your usual old chestnuts are true.

 

Landlord raised the rent significantly is the reason given.

Exactly right, same thing happened with Retox on Soi Lengkee, no doubt now landlord is happy with empty premises and no rent 

[Guderian]

If you're desperate for a beer and a bite to eat in that area, there's a new Thai-German place recently opened more or less opposite Regional Land Soi 8, in other words just around the bend after the Lion Pub as you head towards Thepprasit. I've not tried it, but the food prices look reasonable. Has anybody been there yet?

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

High season October-April. Low season - May-September. Peak season Two weeks of Christmas. Has been that way for many years. Only change is that the high season is getting nibbled away at either end and peak season is shrinking towards one week at Christmas/New Year. Also numbers of farangs is down across the board. Particularly noticable in the last 12 months.

 

Bars have always just ticked over in the low season, laying off staff and not making a profit. Peak season has always been bonanza time with many establishments putting prices up at Christmas/New Year.

 

Bars opening and closing? Hard to say if more are closing than opening but the disparity is not as great as some people think. A number of successful bars have opened in the last 12 months. It's all about having a USP, good business model, top girls and good management. There never has been room for some Barnsley trucker who buys a bar for his "teerak".

 

The Baku group have opened several bars/ gogos/ GCs recently, the majority of which are successful and making money, which IMO bodes well for the Avenue project. Nightwish continue to expand.

 

Gentlemens clubs are the new business model with both Nightwish and Baku having dipped their toes in that market. Babylon, open for a few months, not great location but packed out on a Friday night, standing room only.

 

The death of Pattaya is greatly exaggerated, but it is changing, some would say for the better, some not.

I'm a bit dubious about the success of Nightwish group. Bars always look empty when i pass in Soi 6, the ones in Soi Pothole also empty and i think the gentlemen clubs opened a while back flopped and were trying to sell

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, LennyW said:

 am quite sure many other areas will be the same...dont base everything on the current state of central Pattaya.

Our old geezers here, familiar only with their old haunts, haven't yet got it thru their heads that much of the high season has moved to north Pattaya, where it's in full swing. ????

[jacko45k]

57 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Our old geezers here, familiar only with their old haunts, haven't yet got it thru their heads that much of the high season has moved to north Pattaya, where it's in full swing. ????

Where exactly? I got an impression North Pattaya was going up market, new hotels and fancy Malls and no place for the old Pats geezers to flick their ash! I keep expecting soi 6 to fall to these changes as it all heads Southwards... but it holds fast!

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

High season October-April. Low season - May-September. Peak season Two weeks of Christmas. Has been that way for many years. Only change is that the high season is getting nibbled away at either end and peak season is shrinking towards one week at Christmas/New Year. Also numbers of farangs is down across the board. Particularly noticable in the last 12 months.

 

Bars have always just ticked over in the low season, laying off staff and not making a profit. Peak season has always been bonanza time with many establishments putting prices up at Christmas/New Year.

 

Bars opening and closing? Hard to say if more are closing than opening but the disparity is not as great as some people think. A number of successful bars have opened in the last 12 months. It's all about having a USP, good business model, top girls and good management. There never has been room for some Barnsley trucker who buys a bar for his "teerak".

 

The Baku group have opened several bars/ gogos/ GCs recently, the majority of which are successful and making money, which IMO bodes well for the Avenue project. Nightwish continue to expand.

 

Gentlemens clubs are the new business model with both Nightwish and Baku having dipped their toes in that market. Babylon, open for a few months, not great location but packed out on a Friday night, standing room only.

 

The death of Pattaya is greatly exaggerated, but it is changing, some would say for the better, some not.

Good post.

 

I would add, are more opening, or just replacing existing bars?  I agree, hard to say, but when you have long term places like The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms close down, it doesn't show confidence in the market.

 

Can you name some of the successful bars you say have opened in the last 12 months?

 

You say Nightwish continue to expand, and I agree, they are.  I am just wondering if their business model is to eventually own every bar on Soi 6, and then up the prices on every customer to Soi 6.  Time will tell.  Last time I was in Soi 6 I went into a Nightwish bar and a local beer was 105 baht. 

 

I never predicted the death of Pattaya, but I have said Pattaya, and tourist areas in Thailand in general, have placed themselves in a strange place in the South East Asia tourism market.  Too cheap and nasty and dirty for wealthy tourists, and now too expensive for lower end to middle class tourists from developed nations.

 

Currently, the majority of tourists to Pattaya / Thailand are Chinese and Indians.  Beer and food is cheaper in their own country, so no wonder they stay away from the bars and restaurants.  

 

With the numbers of farang tourists here declining, that's not good for the establishments that cater for them, which is also US, as western expats. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Leaver

[TaaSaparot]

18 hours ago, Leaver said:

but when you have long term places like The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms close down, it doesn't show confidence in the market.

Was that the best you could come up with?

 

One, the owner died and so did the business because it became rudderless.

 

The other was sold as the owners wanted to retire from the business, and reopened shortly after to many good reviews.

 

[BigStar]

19 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Where exactly?

Do this: continue your baht bus journey up 2nd past Soi 6. At the corner of North Pattaya Rd. you'll probably notice a huge building with an airplane out front. Hundreds of new shops & restos, full parking lot on weekends and many weekdays, special drop off point for tour buses pulling up throughout the day. You've reached the epicenter.

 

Quote

 I got an impression North Pattaya was going up market, new hotels and fancy Malls and no place for the old Pats geezers to flick their ash!

So it is, which why the old geezers think there's no high season, that is, "real" high season. "Real" high season must take place only in central PTY. The only participants of "real" high season allowed are yobs and mongers to be seen at the same tiny beer bars, fleabag hotels, and faux Brit pubs they remember as the mainstay of the economy in 1994. Hence, dead Pattaya. ????

[Leaver]

On 12/30/2019 at 12:48 PM, TaaSaparot said:

Was that the best you could come up with?

 

One, the owner died and so did the business because it became rudderless.

 

The other was sold as the owners wanted to retire from the business, and reopened shortly after to many good reviews.

 

How about you post about all the thriving businesses here in high season, and name some.

 

We'll see over the next 12 months who survives, and who doesn't, and what becomes of the property. 

[topt]

On 12/30/2019 at 9:41 AM, BigStar said:

Do this: continue your baht bus journey up 2nd past Soi 6. At the corner of North Pattaya Rd. you'll probably notice a huge building with an airplane out front. Hundreds of new shops & restos, full parking lot on weekends and many weekdays, special drop off point for tour buses pulling up throughout the day. You've reached the epicenter.

Since I have not passed there for a while what is the situation with the bars just north of The Dolphin roundabout - a proverbial stone's throw away from the airplane you mention? 

 

 

[champers]

15 minutes ago, topt said:

Since I have not passed there for a while what is the situation with the bars just north of The Dolphin roundabout - a proverbial stone's throw away from the airplane you mention? 

 

 

The bar called 7 has closed, but all the rest remain. Some are more busy than others. I like Ryans Bar, Happy Bar and The Contemporary Bar but am not a true regular at any. It's very much a matter of personal taste but there is plenty of choice.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, topt said:

Since I have not passed there for a while what is the situation with the bars just north of The Dolphin roundabout - a proverbial stone's throw away from the airplane you mention? 

 

 

The ones just South were lit up but dead last time I walked by. In fact put me off and I had to walk South a good bit to find somewhere I felt was a beer bar, I might like. Made me realize North Pattaya had changed a lot. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by jacko45k

[somnumna]

On 12/23/2019 at 7:11 AM, roger101 said:

I was in he Lion Pub a week or so ago and I saw a Thai man walking round, looking ,tapping on walls. I thought to myself its the sort of thing a prospective buyer would do (or possibly the landlord). I hoped then they would not be selling it.

Between my condo and Tigglebitties there were 10 bars (I've lived there for 13 years) now only the Caddy Shack is left.

The Loin pub was handy as I could go in there while my wife shopped at the market

 The last time i went in there it was run by a Swiss guy who had owned the Harley Bar/hotel complex i think. He had a lovely Thai wife. Her names slips me. Jan was the cashier another lovely lady.  Must be 10 years ago though. The Indian guy owned the lease i think and there was a dodgy Brit Real Estate on the end in a glass enclosure they added. Julian i think his name was. How time flys hey!!! 

[somnumna]

On 12/29/2019 at 2:36 AM, LennyW said:

I know this is in the Pattaya forum but some people need to take the blinkers off if they want to gauge tourist number, i was in Rayong last week...not that far from Pattaya, the Marriot was full, beach side restaurants were full and thriving, Ban Phae was thronging with foreign tourists coming and going to the islands. All shopkeepers, hoteliers, drivers etc. that we met were very upbeat about the current season.

 am quite sure many other areas will be the same...dont base everything on the current state of central Pattaya.

Pattaya is the epicentre of the world for many. ????