Scuffles break out in Paris as pensions protesters, 'yellow vests' march

[rooster59]

Scuffles break out in Paris as pensions protesters, 'yellow vests' march

 

French labour union members and workers on strike attend a demonstration after 24 days of strike against French government's pensions reform plans in Paris, France, December 28, 2019. REUTERS/Benoit Tessier

 

PARIS (Reuters) - Protesters marching against the French government's planned pension reform clashed with the police in Paris on Saturday as police fired tear gas to disperse some groups of demonstrators.

 

French trade unions have spearheaded nationwide strikes since early December in an outcry over President Emmanuel Macron's pensions overhaul, disrupting schools, railways and roads, while lending support to regular protests.

 

On Saturday "yellow vests" - an anti-government movement that sprung up a year ago as a backlash against the high cost of living - joined a rally of several thousand people against the pensions shake-up.

 

Police used tear gas against protesters close to tourists hotspots like the Centre Pompidou museum of modern art, where some demonstrators had tried to erect barricades and set fire to them, and smashed up a bus stop.

 

Clashes broke out at other points of the demonstration too, although the protest was dying down by the late afternoon.

 

Jerome Rodrigues, a prominent figure in the "yellow vest" movement, was hurt in the eye although it was not immediately clear how he had sustained the injury. Rodrigues was blinded in the same eye earlier this year during another demonstration.

 

France's transport network remained disrupted across the country and in Paris on the last weekend of the year, and rail and metro workers have so far insisted they will keep pressure on Macron to abandon his overhaul.

 

"We're ready to hold for quite a while," said Laurent Djebali, a representative of the metro branch of the Unsa union as he joined the march.

 

Macron has touted his reform as conducive to a fairer system that will incentivise workers to stay in the labour force until 64 instead of 62 and balance the pension budget, while eliminating many special regimes.

 

(Reporting by Clotaire Achi and Benoit Tessier; Writing by Sarah White; Editing by Hugh Lawson)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-12-29

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[sammieuk1]

Always wear safety glasses when smashing up a bus stop is a lesson that needs to be learned ????

[RuamRudy]

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

French retiring at 62 and possible increase to 64 and they are rioting ? Come live in the UK it's near seventy for kids growing up now. No sympathy.

Kids today do not yet have the ability to take a stand - it is the adults who should be doing something about it.

 

This attitude of no sympathy because we have it worse is utterly depressing to me; we should be seeking to support and encourage the struggles of the working class rather than facilitating this race to the bottom. Ultimately, we all lose otherwise.

[samran]

47 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Kids today do not yet have the ability to take a stand - it is the adults who should be doing something about it.

 

This attitude of no sympathy because we have it worse is utterly depressing to me; we should be seeking to support and encourage the struggles of the working class rather than facilitating this race to the bottom. Ultimately, we all lose otherwise.

Compassion in policy making is sorely lacking. Nevertheless how do the French get around the fact that people are living much longer than when these pension thresholds were first put into place, and that under current frameworks, financing them is very challenging? 

Edited December 29, 2019 by samran

[mogandave]

24 minutes ago, samran said:

Compassion in policy making is sorely lacking. Nevertheless how do the French get around the fact that people are living much longer than when these pension thresholds were first put into place, and that under current frameworks, financing them is very challenging? 

It’s not challenging, just tax the rich.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, samran said:

Compassion in policy making is sorely lacking. Nevertheless how do the French get around the fact that people are living much longer than when these pension thresholds were first put into place, and that under current frameworks, financing them is very challenging? 

There certainly seems to be a disparity between the model of capitalism we are currently enduring and the expectations of the masses for fair recognition and compensation for their efforts. Something has to change or all the gains that our forefathers secured for us will be undone before our eyes - as we all passively watch them disappear.

[samran]

23 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

There certainly seems to be a disparity between the model of capitalism we are currently enduring and the expectations of the masses for fair recognition and compensation for their efforts. Something has to change or all the gains that our forefathers secured for us will be undone before our eyes - as we all passively watch them disappear.

I’m not saying that throwing away what parents, grandparents and unions have fought for should be thrown away.

 

But the maths of demographics and longevity mean that what worked 40 years ago may not be suitable for today.

 

As nice as it sounds, I don’t think soaking the rich is the answer. 

[Scott Tracy]

In my view, pensions should be paid until you're 35, then you die in harness.

 

Up to 35, you're young enough and fit enough to enjoy the State Pension. When you're 70, it helps relieve the boredom and lon loneliness. If you still work, that doesn't apply. If you're dead, ditto.

For those who say Firefighters, police, ambulance crews, soldiers etc can't do that, remaining in post ensures an early death.

 

Darwinism rules.

[RuamRudy]

58 minutes ago, samran said:

I’m not saying that throwing away what parents, grandparents and unions have fought for should be thrown away.

 

But the maths of demographics and longevity mean that what worked 40 years ago may not be suitable for today.

 

As nice as it sounds, I don’t think soaking the rich is the answer. 

I agree that returning the means of production to the masses is not the answer, but I feel that there is a balance to be struck, and currently the balance is too much in favour of the few. 

[Chazar]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

It’s not challenging, just tax the rich.

The  problem is I  know some rich people (although youd  have to define  rich) and they work almost 24/7 whereas  other people do   as little  a s possible and expect everything.

[mogandave]

10 minutes ago, Chazar said:

The  problem is I  know some rich people (although youd  have to define  rich) and they work almost 24/7 whereas  other people do   as little  a s possible and expect everything.

People that “...do as little a possible...” likely did not grow up with the privilege you “friends” enjoy, but they still deserve a decent life. 

[Chazar]

7 minutes ago, mogandave said:

People that “...do as little a possible...” likely did not grow up with the privilege you “friends” enjoy, but they still deserve a decent life. 

they may  well  have worked  very hard for that privelege, Im talking lazy  buggers who expect everything handed to them on a  plate, I never said they were friends.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Chazar

[Cryingdick]

They should encourage their citizens to invest as much as they can into private markets. Anybody not putting money into something other than some government scheme are doing themselves a huge disservice. 

[metisdead]

A troll post and the replies have been removed. 

 

A post with off topic comments about the UK has been removed as well as the following posts regarding the UK's pension plan. 

[baboon]

7 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

They should encourage their citizens to invest as much as they can into private markets. Anybody not putting money into something other than some government scheme are doing themselves a huge disservice. 

Like Enron? Or the Maxwell pension scheme?

I would rather the state took care of such things, thanks.

[Cryingdick]

6 minutes ago, baboon said:

Like Enron? Or the Maxwell pension scheme?

I would rather the state took care of such things, thanks.

 

That's fine but don't complain when you don't like what the state offers. I like matters to be in my own hands when it involves my quality of life through my golden years. Also I am saying to invest along with a government pension one isn't exclusive of the other.

 

Buy a low cost ETF. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Cryingdick

[kingdong]

16 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Kids today do not yet have the ability to take a stand - it is the adults who should be doing something about it.

 

This attitude of no sympathy because we have it worse is utterly depressing to me; we should be seeking to support and encourage the struggles of the working class rather than facilitating this race to the bottom. Ultimately, we all lose otherwise.

And what stand do you propose the"adults" should do?

[brokenbone]

15 hours ago, samran said:

Compassion in policy making is sorely lacking. Nevertheless how do the French get around the fact that people are living much longer than when these pension thresholds were first put into place, and that under current frameworks, financing them is very challenging? 

its as nice as it is rare to see an actual understanding of the issue.

germany was the first to set up a general pension,

the economists had done their due homework

and set pension age slightly above life expectancy,

so tax money would only ever go to a few.

 

today is a different kettle of fish altogether,

nearly everyone ends up being a parasite on upcoming generations

Edited December 30, 2019 by brokenbone

[Stargeezr]

So how long is the work week in France? Is it 40 hours long? Retirement is 

before 65, wow.  Wonder if the French have gone to

the great USA, and stayed there, I think they have a lot longer work week, and longer

to retirement.  I retired in Canada young enuff, as I worked in the Federal Government

for a lot of my career and got to have my pension started early.

  I have become quite anti union, and actually do not like unions  very much.

Guess I am fortunate, and wonder what the French really have to complain about?

Geezer

 

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

So how long is the work week in France? Is it 40 hours long? Retirement is 

before 65, wow.  Wonder if the French have gone to

the great USA, and stayed there, I think they have a lot longer work week, and longer

to retirement.  I retired in Canada young enuff, as I worked in the Federal Government

for a lot of my career and got to have my pension started early.

  I have become quite anti union, and actually do not like unions  very much.

Guess I am fortunate, and wonder what the French really have to complain about?

Geezer

 

Early retirement in the US is 62, and depending when you are born 65 and six months for full SS retirement, my Union pension with 65. We do work longer hours but I am not sure that's a good thing, The average work week is 40 hrs. anything over 40 hrs is time and a half, Sundays are double time, 

[Cryingdick]

21 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

So how long is the work week in France? Is it 40 hours long? Retirement is 

before 65, wow.  Wonder if the French have gone to

the great USA, and stayed there, I think they have a lot longer work week, and longer

to retirement.  I retired in Canada young enuff, as I worked in the Federal Government

for a lot of my career and got to have my pension started early.

  I have become quite anti union, and actually do not like unions  very much.

Guess I am fortunate, and wonder what the French really have to complain about?

Geezer

 

 

My husband is British.So we were just talking about this today and it is funny you just brought it up. He works for a big American company and gets two weeks a year off. He doesn't like it but that is how America is able to out perform any other western country economically.

 

I did the math and England loses something like 12% because of holiday pay. Also the prices are way higher. Now if the French have 4 day work weeks you are losing 20% productivity in addition to the 12% for a month or more holiday.

 

Add in very high taxes on everything and consumer goods are expensive, productivity slow and pensions are consistently in danger.

 

Working sucks but being dependent on the government or your family is embarrassing. If you want to retire earlier in America you reign in the spending and make your own retirement plans. Anybody that let's something outside of their control dictate their future are stone cold nuts.

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Cryingdick

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

And what stand do you propose the"adults" should do?

You could start by not voting for parties that are bankrolled by big business.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

My husband is British.So we were just talking about this today and it is funny you just brought it up. He works for a big American company and gets two weeks a year off. He doesn't like it but that is how America is able to out perform any other western country economically.

 

I did the math and England loses something like 12% because of holiday pay. Also the prices are way higher. Now if the French have 4 day work weeks you are losing 20% productivity in addition to the 12% for a month or more holiday.

 

Add in very high taxes on everything and consumer goods are expensive, productivity slow and pensions are consistently in danger.

 

Working sucks but being dependent on the government or your family is embarrassing. If you want to retire earlier in America you reign in the spending and make your own retirement plans. Anybody that let's something outside of their control dictate their future are stone cold nuts.

 

Of course it is perspective, however your talk of countries 'losing' productivity because people take vacation suggests you think we are all commodities to be exploited to the max. I don't want that me, my descendants or my fellow humans are thought of the way we think of dairy cows, simply there to be exploited in the most economically efficient manner possible. 

 

That 20% you say France loses in productivity equally equates to a percentage of the lives of American workers which are taken from them to allow a few very rich people to stuff their already overflowing mattresses with even more money. France doesn't lose anything in your analogy; the real losers are the American workers.

[Cryingdick]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Of course it is perspective, however your talk of countries 'losing' productivity because people take vacation suggests you think we are all commodities to be exploited to the max. I don't want that me, my descendants or my fellow humans are thought of the way we think of dairy cows, simply there to be exploited in the most economically efficient manner possible. 

 

That 20% you say France loses in productivity equally equates to a percentage of the lives of American workers which are taken from them to allow a few very rich people to stuff their already overflowing mattresses with even more money. France doesn't lose anything in your analogy; the real losers are the American workers.

 

If that's the case I don't understand. I don't riot for free in the December cold. My time is important to me.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Cryingdick

[mogandave]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

Early retirement in the US is 62, and depending when you are born 65 and six months for full SS retirement, my Union pension with 65. We do work longer hours but I am not sure that's a good thing, The average work week is 40 hrs. anything over 40 hrs is time and a half, Sundays are double time, 

Early retirement in the US is any age you want. No one is compelled to work. I retired at 60, my brother is worth twice what I am and he’s still working at 66. 

 

Nothing wrong with working, keeps people busy and generally happy. Kids used to work in the US, remember?
 

Time spent working not only generates money, but it saves money as well. No need to spend money entering myself when you’re working. 
 

Lot’s of people are proud of the work they do (or did) and I think that includes you, yes? 
 

Far and away most people have it much better than they ever have. 

 

[JonnyF]

It's all going wrong for Macron. What a shame, maybe he should have focused more on domestic issues instead of grandstanding to his EU buddies by constantly criticising the British over Brexit. 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

It's all going wrong for Macron. What a shame, maybe he should have focused more on domestic issues instead of grandstanding to his EU buddies by constantly criticising the British over Brexit. 

He is merely following the same path our UK governments have been forging over the years - the difference being that the British public are spineless and weak; the French workers should be an inspiration to us all. Sadly, all we seem to do in the UK is to criticise our fellow man who stands up for his - and our - rights. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

Lot’s of people are proud of the work they do (or did) and I think that includes you, yes? 

I'm deeply ashamed of the work I did, even though it paid a lot of money.

(UK government censorship and propaganda if you want to know)

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

Early retirement in the US is any age you want. No one is compelled to work. I retired at 60, my brother is worth twice what I am and he’s still working at 66.

That is true for any planet in the universe except Omicron Persei 8. But for the purpose of this conversation and if one wants to start collecting SS in the US one has to be 62 .  In Omicron Persei 8 you start collecting at birth but every  year at your birthday a credit is automatically deducted, when you run out of credits you are devoured by Lrrr.

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

You could start by not voting for parties that are bankrolled by big business.

And vote for Labour who were funded by the trade unions? They did a lot for them in their 3 terms of office.Well