New requirement to show air ticket at land border

[PeaceBlondie]

One person's experience - out of the hundreds of thousands that leave and enter, re-enter Thailand each day - and then posted on a web forum is always enough to scare the pants of anybody. If you were to read the Lonley Planet's tips about travelling in Thailand, all similarly submitted by unpaid volunteerr travel writers who just want to see their name in the list of 5,000 contributors in the back page, you wouldn't want to set foot anywhere near the Kingdom. What one reads in tourist guides and on forums: caveat.

But it's not just one person's experience: we have had reports on this thread from wneaux, dgrohl, krazyboi, Kilgore Trout, Flatlander, wowpow, mopenyang, Lopburi and Mike l - nine posters - of actual signs they saw at the border, or actual website URL's of embassies and consulates, that some proof of onward travel is being required or requested.

Yes, don't believe everything you read in web forums. But in the process of advising folks who wish to keep on staying in Thailand (long after they could pretend to be mere tourists), we've consistently advised them to get visas if at all possible. And even when we say we super-moderators sympathize with the plights of the folks who can't get visas, we unpaid volunteers still get criticized. Can't win.

Perhaps some of the MFA and Immigration Police employees and bosses have decided to clamp down on perpetual 'tourists' who abuse the visa-less, free, stamp upon arrival.

[JimsKnight]

To answer some questions.

On the rig workers concern about visa conundrum, this should be no problem.

I spoke to one my collegues on the Thistle Platform (who lives in Thailand permenantely) he confirmed that Airline entry and exit were fine as it was not land border crossings that were being used. I've seen this spoken of already on the forum too. Unless the laws have changed AGAIN its likely to be still in effect.

From what I've gathered on the Poi Pet crossing point, yes, it seems like onward travel is needed but it seems only to be this crossing point and not the others (so far). So its reasonable to assume that Mae Sai and Ranong, Penang and Sungai Koluk are doable without air travel docs. Unless someone knows any better?

The bulk of farang they may wish to concentrate on in the eyes of the thais are best 'weeded' at Poi Pet, hence the air ticket enforcement.

Interesting times are in store. Its a necessary evil though, if it means Thailand loses some of the scummy element that, lets face it, seems intent on giving farang a bad name then so be it.

If the thai economy takes a down turn I won't be losing any sleep over it. If anything living becomes easier as the baht plunges!

[fortuneguy45]

One person's experience - out of the hundreds of thousands that leave and enter, re-enter Thailand each day - and then posted on a web forum is always enough to scare the pants of anybody. If you were to read the Lonley Planet's tips about travelling in Thailand, all similarly submitted by unpaid volunteerr travel writers who just want to see their name in the list of 5,000 contributors in the back page, you wouldn't want to set foot anywhere near the Kingdom. What one reads in tourist guides and on forums: caveat.

But it's not just one person's experience: we have had reports on this thread from wneaux, dgrohl, krazyboi, Kilgore Trout, Flatlander, wowpow, mopenyang, Lopburi and Mike l - nine posters - of actual signs they saw at the border, or actual website URL's of embassies and consulates, that some proof of onward travel is being required or requested.

Yes, don't believe everything you read in web forums. But in the process of advising folks who wish to keep on staying in Thailand (long after they could pretend to be mere tourists), we've consistently advised them to get visas if at all possible. And even when we say we super-moderators sympathize with the plights of the folks who can't get visas, we unpaid volunteers still get criticized. Can't win.

Perhaps some of the MFA and Immigration Police employees and bosses have decided to clamp down on perpetual 'tourists' who abuse the visa-less, free, stamp upon arrival.

All to the well and good. But this site has got a reputation as a rumour mill and does have strict rules as to what can and cannot be said. Also, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that some naughty people might conspire to instigate a grand April Fools joke.

Objective comment can and does get blocked. I guess the whole thing is a meaningless argument anyway, as it's quite easy to go off and get either a non imm. or tourist visa. I object to the whole hypocrisy and defenders who unwittingly serve the system where no support is merited.

I've had to heavily censor the above which may make it rather vague and not easily comprehensible. If I did otherwise, ie, said what I believe to be true my posting might not appear.

Do gooders have no place in this argument IMHO. Start thinking a little laterally and it becomes possible to have an entirely different take on the situation which is more to do with human freedom as Thai law.

[fortuneguy45]

To answer some questions.

On the rig workers concern about visa conundrum, this should be no problem.

I spoke to one my collegues on the Thistle Platform (who lives in Thailand permenantely) he confirmed that Airline entry and exit were fine as it was not land border crossings that were being used. I've seen this spoken of already on the forum too. Unless the laws have changed AGAIN its likely to be still in effect.

From what I've gathered on the Poi Pet crossing point, yes, it seems like onward travel is needed but it seems only to be this crossing point and not the others (so far). So its reasonable to assume that Mae Sai and Ranong, Penang and Sungai Koluk are doable without air travel docs. Unless someone knows any better?

The bulk of farang they may wish to concentrate on in the eyes of the thais are best 'weeded' at Poi Pet, hence the air ticket enforcement.

Interesting times are in store. Its a necessary evil though, if it means Thailand loses some of the scummy element that, lets face it, seems intent on giving farang a bad name then so be it.

If the thai economy takes a down turn I won't be losing any sleep over it. If anything living becomes easier as the baht plunges!

Hey Sir Lancelot. Your mate's a Thai lawyer is he? More gossip, more moralistic garbage. Your in Thailand mate, not ruddy heaven.

[jeebusjones]

Objective comment can and does get blocked. I guess the whole thing is a meaningless argument anyway, as it's quite easy to go off and get either a non imm. or tourist visa. I object to the whole hypocrisy and defenders who unwittingly serve the system where no support is merited.

I've had to heavily censor the above which may make it rather vague and not easily comprehensible. If I did otherwise, ie, said what I believe to be true my posting might not appear.

Do gooders have no place in this argument IMHO. Start thinking a little laterally and it becomes possible to have an entirely different take on the situation which is more to do with human freedom as Thai law.

As long as you're respectful, relatively polite, and genuinely offering your own constructive opinion, I don't think your post will be blocked.

As for this "it's easy to get a non imm. visa." Could you expound on that a little? It's not easy at all.

[fortuneguy45]

Objective comment can and does get blocked. I guess the whole thing is a meaningless argument anyway, as it's quite easy to go off and get either a non imm. or tourist visa. I object to the whole hypocrisy and defenders who unwittingly serve the system where no support is merited.

I've had to heavily censor the above which may make it rather vague and not easily comprehensible. If I did otherwise, ie, said what I believe to be true my posting might not appear.

Do gooders have no place in this argument IMHO. Start thinking a little laterally and it becomes possible to have an entirely different take on the situation which is more to do with human freedom as Thai law.

As long as you're respectful, relatively polite, and genuinely offering your own constructive opinion, I don't think your post will be blocked.

As for this "it's easy to get a non imm. visa." Could you expound on that a little? It's not easy at all.

Have you reviewed the rules and what can and and cannot be said about our hosts?

Why do you think somebody who refers to Poi-Pet travellers as ' the scummy element' deserves politeness?

A non-imm B visa can be obtained through any competent lawyer in Thailand. It's easy but expensive. By returning home on a holiday for instance you can obtain a year's visa for business or spec. purposes quite easily. I think I meant the tourist visa is easy, which is undoubtedly true.

I can not write what I would like to write on this forum, whereas as a farang anybody can write a fair bit about me. Do you defend this ?

[onebir]

Re Amadeus: according to Wikipedia, there are four major computerized reservation systems (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_reservations_system). And low cost airlines in particular tend to use proprietary systems (see 1st para in "Today's Challenges". So it seems very difficult to check an onward e-ticket.

I have an onward ticket problem for a planned trip via Hong Kong (thanks incidentally to the insightdull moderator who deleted my post about that) & spoke to a supervisor at the Oasis Hongkong bookings centre about it. I mentioned that "some people have suggested I use a doctored e-ticket", and he confirmed that it would be 'very difficult for us to tell if it was genuine' but mentioned that 'it would cause problems if we found out'. A poster claiming to be a travel agent on the thorntree forum also offered to make me a fake itinerary which he claimed the check-in staff would be unable to check.

Re cheap genuine onward tickets: Cebu Pacific Air has BKK to Manila flights for US$80-90. It would be a pain to pay this every month, but it looks like this wouldn't be necessary:

13.  Refund will be made provided that the unused coupons are surrendered to Carrier within two (2) years after the expiry date of the validity of the ticket. Refunds for credit card transactions are processed within 45 working days.

14.  The following refund fees shall be collected for voluntary refunds: Domestic tickets – PHP 300.00 ( CAB approval dated December 4, 2006 ); Hong Kong tickets – PHP 1,500.00; Singapore tickets – PHP 1,500.00 (CAB approval dated February 28,2006); Kuala Lumpur tickets – PHP 1,500; [b]Bangkok tickets – PHP 1,500[/b]; Jakarta tickets – PHP 1,500; Taipei tickets – PHP 1,500; Shanghai tickets – PHP 1,500; Xiamen tickets – PHP 1,500;

(Conditions of contract - http://secured.cebupacificair.com/itd/itd/TermsAndConditions)

So if you want to make land visa runs, it should be possible to a valid onward e-ticket for PHP1,500 (US$30) per run. This is about the same as the train fare to Penang - but should also satisfy any over-zealous officials who insist on an onward air ticket (although perhaps this is just something airline check-in staff tend to do?)

Airasia doesn't give refunds (not even on departure tax ), but does allow date changes; an Airasia ticket might make sense if you're actually planning to use it. If the onward ticket has to be for within 1 month of entry - sorry if I missed this fact, it's a long thread - you can change the date for THB500-900 (see their Terms & Conditions, link at bottom of home page).

So there are fairly inexpensive ways to 'genuinely' circumvent the onward ticket requirement. And if you're prepared to take the risk - which is difficult to quantify - a fake e-ticket might do the trick.

Edited April 8, 2007 by onebir

[fortuneguy45]

Re Amadeus: according to Wikipedia, there are four major computerized reservation systems (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_reservations_system). And low cost airlines in particular tend to use proprietary systems (see 1st para in "Today's Challenges". So it seems very difficult to check an onward e-ticket.

I have an onward ticket problem for a planned trip via Hong Kong (thanks incidentally to the insightdull moderator who deleted my post about that) & as a result spoke to a supervisor at the Oasis Hongkong bookings centre about. I mentioned that some people had suggested I use a doctored e-ticket, and he confirmed that it would be 'very difficult for us to tell if it was genuine' but mentioned that 'it would cause problems if we found out'. A poster claiming to be a travel agent on the thorn tree forum also offered to make me a fake itinerary which he claimed the check-in staff would be unable to check.

Re cheap genuine onward tickets: Cebu Pacific Air has BKK to Manila flights for US$80-90. It would be a pain to pay this every month, but it looks like this wouldn't be necessary:

13.  Refund will be made provided that the unused coupons are surrendered to Carrier within two (2) years after the expiry date of the validity of the ticket. Refunds for credit card transactions are processed within 45 working days.

14.  The following refund fees shall be collected for voluntary refunds: Domestic tickets – PHP 300.00 ( CAB approval dated December 4, 2006 ); Hong Kong tickets – PHP 1,500.00; Singapore tickets – PHP 1,500.00 (CAB approval dated February 28,2006); Kuala Lumpur tickets – PHP 1,500; [b]Bangkok tickets – PHP 1,500[/b]; Jakarta tickets – PHP 1,500; Taipei tickets – PHP 1,500; Shanghai tickets – PHP 1,500; Xiamen tickets – PHP 1,500;

(Conditions of contract - http://secured.cebupacificair.com/itd/itd/TermsAndConditions)

So if you want to make land visa runs, it should be possible to a valid onward e-ticket for PHP1,500 (US$30) per run. This is about the same as the train fare to Penang - but should also satisfy any over-zealous officials who insist on a flight out...

Airasia doesn't give refunds (not even on departure tax ), but does allow date changes; an Airasia ticket might make sense if you're actually planning to use it. If the onward ticket has to be for within 1 month of entry - sorry if I missed this, it's a long thread - you can change the date for THB500-900 (see their Terms & Conditions, link at bottom of home page).

So there are fairly inexpensive ways to 'genuinely' circumvent the onward ticket requirement. And if you're prepared to take the risk - which is difficult to quantify - a fake e-ticket might do the trick.

Again all to the well and good, but we are possibly talking about a mis-application of the rules, or even government officials re-writing the rules quite unlawfully. Great, you come up with a solution. But that's just the mouse playing in to the cat's hands.

If I were to write further then undoubtedly this posting would be withdrawn

[Gonzo the Face]

Just a guess, from an old bureaucrat here: if one set of regulations is too difficult to enforce or for the staff to comprehend, find some far easier excuse to say no to the clients, especially to those clients (perpetual 'tourists') who aren't paying anything to our agency.

Ah, so these folks have no visa issued by the MFA staff, and they have stamps in their passport that show they've been in Thailand a lot. Let's see, to whom do we give stamps for entry without a visa? To real tourists. Okay, real tourists should have a flight out of Thailand...voila, no counting of days, no counting of visa-free stamps.

All behaviour is caused. Governments do things for a reason. Do you see that the staff at the border crossings is greatly increased? Do they have time to count days, or stamps? Nope. Are they bright enough to recognize a squatter (an illegal resident who pretends to be a tourist) just by glancing through a passport? Yep.

With all due sympathy to those who cannot get real visas: you are in a bind. You are between a rock and your home country. If I were a second-level boss at a border crossing, without increased funds or staff, I'd cut down on the workload for my staff. Perpetual 'tourists' would soon learn not to cross at my bridge. Especially if my boss's boss hinted down the chain of command that we had to make do with the staff we have, and how to do it.

Very well put..... Amen

[hansnl]

I am living in Thailand, married to a Thai woman, bought a house (yes), pay taxes (yes), and follow the rules. (Mmmmmm.....well........nearly all of them)

I must confess I do have some help from my brother in law, who is in law, as they say!

But, I need some enlightment.

I read all the postings about doing visa-runs, getting info about the easiest way to dodge the rules, etc.

My understanding about wanting to stay in this country goes out to all and everyone.

However, why do I always get the idea that people from countries with very restricting visum-rules always complain most about the rules for getting and holding a visum in Thailand.

Can somebody give me an answer?

I know, I have a non O visum multiple entry, have to leave the country every 90 days, have to apply for a new visum in Amsterdam or in Thailand, and who knows what will change for me?

Maybe I will be in some bind next year, or the year after.

Tough sh*t.

I decided to live in Thailand, and it is most certainly up to the Thai government to do with the rules whatever they want to do, wise or unwise! (maybe the latter is paramount)

I just try to ride the waves, so to say.

And hope that one day I will not be anxious if I am allowed to stay indefinitely, because I have nothing in Holland any more!

Now, getting a visum for my wife to accompany me to Holland, that is easy!!!!!!

Have to go to Bangkok for the interview (have done it before), have to endure to see how my wife is degraded by the official who thinks that all Thai women are prostitutes and want to go to Holland to work or enjoy the social benefits over there, have to call next day what is happening, and have to return again on another day for collecting the passport with visum.

Mind you, I live in Khon Kaen, so that is two days lost per journey, travel expenses and/or hotel costs, the indignation because of the implied treatment, in short......pure joy and entertainment.

Well, I am lucky, a visum for a legally married wife is free of costs, yessssssss

Having the visum, travelled to Holland, then try to renew it IN Holland for staying longer as allowed in the visum.

Entirely impossible!

Having been there, as a Thai, returned to Thaialnd, then try to get a new visum within a specified time.

Impossible!

Being in Holland, to the immigration police for extra control of your whereabouts, extra stamp and sticker in your passport, another day lost.

But, lucky again, for a legally married wife, no costs.

So, who is complaining about Thailand and its rules!

Of course it is a shame that the world is not as we want it to be, that we cannot stay in the country we want to stay, but that is life.

I think the rules in Europe are very much stricter!

However, I also wish that the rules were simpler, and very much easier.

In Thailand and in Holland.

Be assured that if I can, I will publish any loophole I can find, or get from bro in law.

And yes, I check all info relating to visum rules for Thailand.

Salutations and good luck with staying in Thailand and of course, the visum!

For all of you, tourists, semi tourists, visum holders, non visum holders anbd even illegals!

[Crossy]

If I were to write further then undoubtedly this posting would be withdrawn

Why do you feel it necessary to discuss moderation issues in every one of your posts? This is indeed against forum rules apart from being more than slightly irksome.

PM me if you don't want to answer on the open forum

[stevenl]

Have to go to Bangkok for the interview (have done it before), have to endure to see how my wife is degraded by the official who thinks that all Thai women are prostitutes

Sorry Hans, you are no longer allowed inside anymore, you can't see your wife being degraded any longer.

Well, I am lucky, a visum for a legally married wife is free of costs

Unfortunately also not true anymore, you will have to pay, just as everybody else.

I noticed these changes last time I went to Holland with my wife.

[fortuneguy45]

If I were to write further then undoubtedly this posting would be withdrawn

Why do you feel it necessary to discuss moderation issues in every one of your posts? This is indeed against forum rules apart from being more than slightly irksome.

PM me if you don't want to answer on the open forum

Because being able to say what is really important to say puts one in breach of the board rules and the censors are easily offended. We talk about this, that, and the other as if it really mattered, but let's face we can't openly criticise Thais and their ways.

[gavstah]

I totally agree with you,i also think it is an april folls joke,just to make our hearts beat up abit and worrie.Some people enjot this,lopburi and Co do not reply to show that they think the same,not fully sure but almost.

Just to weigh in here - I just got back from Ban Laem and can assure you that this is no joke. Signs are prominently displayed on both the outbound and inbound windows at eye level. All in capital letters as the previously posted picture shows.

[sjaak327]

I

Now, getting a visum for my wife to accompany me to Holland, that is easy!!!!!!

Have to go to Bangkok for the interview (have done it before), have to endure to see how my wife is degraded by the official who thinks that all Thai women are prostitutes and want to go to Holland to work or enjoy the social benefits over there, have to call next day what is happening, and have to return again on another day for collecting the passport with visum.

Mind you, I live in Khon Kaen, so that is two days lost per journey, travel expenses and/or hotel costs, the indignation because of the implied treatment, in short......pure joy and entertainment.

Well, I am lucky, a visum for a legally married wife is free of costs, yessssssss

Having the visum, travelled to Holland, then try to renew it IN Holland for staying longer as allowed in the visum.

Entirely impossible!

Having been there, as a Thai, returned to Thaialnd, then try to get a new visum within a specified time.

Impossible!

Being in Holland, to the immigration police for extra control of your whereabouts, extra stamp and sticker in your passport, another day lost.

But, lucky again, for a legally married wife, no costs.

So, who is complaining about Thailand and its rules!

Of course it is a shame that the world is not as we want it to be, that we cannot stay in the country we want to stay, but that is life.

I think the rules in Europe are very much stricter!

That's a matter of opinion, I think it is actually the opposite. I presume you applied for a tourist visa at the Dutch Embassy (Schengen Visa good for 90 days).

I have done this for my Lao partner two times now, he will be arriving in 3 days Anyway getting the visa was a piece of cake, there are some restrictions though: The Visa is good for 90 days, not extendable (except for special circumstances) but of course no need to leave the country at any time. The next restriction is that he will not get another visa for 3 months, after that period applying and getting the visa is possible. And we have indeed done so. He was treated with all the respect at the embassy, the first time I was allowed to the "interview" which is nothing more then handing over the forms, the cash for the visa and two ! questions from the officer. No problem whatsoever. The second time, I wasn't allowed to go to the officer, but again after less then 10 minutes my partner came out, no problem.

Getting someone in on a MVV (provisional stay, no time limit) is a little bit harder, but still doable. And of course then he will become a normal citizen with normal rights, something that is not easily done in Thailand. I mean try to buy land in your name, not possible, of course in NL this is easily done.

[visarunner]

What's the reason for the recent posts?

Nothing to do with the airticket.

The authorities decided that is is time to enforce one more rule.

I understand some borderpost like Aran/PoiPet are already enforcing it , others tell the people "NEXT" time and they mean it.

The next one on the list will be "show money".

[Axel]

A European whom I know lives in Seam Reap. What kind of airticket can he present? I don't think there are any flights from the border back home to Aran??

[lamphun]

astral:

as i had mentioned earlier, for a frequent traveler to thailand and someone traveling within asia, this is a nightmare.

it forces one into 30 day trip to thailand (not 35 or 45 or 60)

it will disadvantage all land travel throughout the region

it forces one into expensive tickets procured not from point a or b but country c

it may force some to purchase tickets they do not need nor will not use

it takes ticket sales out of thai hands completely

if this is how thailand encouraages tourism - they are surely mad.

Excellent post.

As for those who claim the present confusion will sort out the trash from the worthy, my experience is that most of the trash seem to be here on long term visas.

[QualityTouristNumberOne]

With regards to this and all the other final straws that are putting fracture style pressure on this camels back I can only agree with Jinjok and say...

GOODBYE Thailand...

it was nice while it lasted,

one more tourist visa to give me time to wind up my affairs,and you can have your country back.

Enjoy the coming recession,may you all live in interesting times.

[PeaceBlondie]

Is anybody advising their friends and enemies back home in Farang Land to come to Thailand? Especially, to come and live here without a visa?

[Maestro]

Is anybody advising their friends and enemies back home in Farang Land to come to Thailand? Especially, to come and live here without a visa?

I recently advised two friends in Switzerland, both over 50, on the visa and immigration procedure for retirement.

Interestingly, the Thai consulate in Zurich wants to see a “written confirmation of return flight or onward travel (copy of return ticket)” even with an application for a non-O visa. Silly requirement, of course.

--

Maestro

[brahmburgers]

Somebody should open a plane ticket biz in Poipet. Sell the cheapest ticket(s) outbound from Thailand. With a bit of publicity, they'd have a steady stream of customers - most of whom wouldn't even use the flight. If the ticket(s) were refundable, less (let's say) a 10% surcharge, then it would really be a gangbusters biz.

Thai imm.authorities can tighten the screws to their ill-thought-out requirements, but that won't necessarily cause the degenarates to flee, and leave only the big spenders. Indeed, the opposite could happen. Already, tourist-related businesses are suffereing tangibly. Example: C.Mai, where guest houses should be booked to the gills for Songkran, are hurting for occupancies. that's just a drop in the proverbial bucket. Since money rules in Thailand, it will be just a matter of time until powers-that-be realize their foolishness and loosen up on their draconian rules. ...hopefully - for farang and Thais alike.

[lopburi3]

Chiang Mai occupancy may have little, if anything, to do with visas I suspect. Most visited Chiang Mai during the agricultural festival which has ended so are going elsewhere at this time of year. Also the pollution has been a major factor. I sure would not visit with the air as bad as it has been. Made that mistake in previous years.

Tourist bookings in the South are full up according to Thai newspaper reports and even the Northeast is 20% higher. I could not even obtain rooms in my normal Cha Am hotel last month. Last year it was no problem.

[fortuneguy45]

I totally agree with you,i also think it is an april folls joke,just to make our hearts beat up abit and worrie.Some people enjot this,lopburi and Co do not reply to show that they think the same,not fully sure but almost.

Just to weigh in here - I just got back from Ban Laem and can assure you that this is no joke. Signs are prominently displayed on both the outbound and inbound windows at eye level. All in capital letters as the previously posted picture shows.

ok, but a pity you didn't weigh in with info. about how you got back in. Did you book up a plane ticket beforehand ? Maybe you want to gloat more than you want to help?

[icecubes]

astral:

as i had mentioned earlier, for a frequent traveler to thailand and someone traveling within asia, this is a nightmare.

it forces one into 30 day trip to thailand (not 35 or 45 or 60)

it will disadvantage all land travel throughout the region

it forces one into expensive tickets procured not from point a or b but country c

it may force some to purchase tickets they do not need nor will not use

it takes ticket sales out of thai hands completely

if this is how thailand encouraages tourism - they are surely mad.

Excellent post.

As for those who claim the present confusion will sort out the trash from the worthy, my experience is that most of the trash seem to be here on long term visas.

[uk_falang]

Why are you sceptical?

You get valuable advise and the members who post ,lopburi3/maestro and few others are always spot on.

Unfortunality also this Airticket issue is true and will be enforced (more or less).

Things in this country are implemented without proper information or advance notice , but this is TIT.

OK. Here goes.

[/size]

I remain sceptical exactly because the reports do not originate from members from whom the forum has "previously received valuable advise and……….. and the members who (regularly) post ,lopburi3/maestro and few others (who) are (usually) always spot on".

There are 3 topics on this issue, 2 started by first time posters, 1 by a newbie member One topic was started on April fools day. You must be aware of numerous examples in the past of newcomers posting just to make mischief. And the pain in my injured leg which is keeping me housebound and hooked on this forum tends to throb more when I read certain posts, a sure sign of something.

This would be a very serious issue for many and my purpose in posting was solely to encourage corroborative posts, if only to prove me wrong. I had invited two posters to reproduce here a copy of the paper they were given which I think is not unreasonable.

see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=114392

word for word

No point in quoting me. I conceded early yesterday that this is a genuine issue.

An example of the best a long term "tourist" can hope for is:

Day 1 enter Thailand with tourist visa issued in Penang. Extend permission to stay from 60 to 90 days.

Day 90 border run to Poipet with confirmed ticket to Penang. Get 30 days visa free

Day 119 fly to Penang and get new visa

Day 120 re-enter Thailand with a new tourist and start process again.

At least the issue of 90 days in 6 months becomes academic and they can make half the immigration officers at Poi-pet redundant.

Previous suggestions about re-dating airline tickets to get 3 consecutive 30 day permits is only really practical if you initally pay for a full fare ticket (or know a good travel agent). Most cheapo fares are no change, no refund

Thinking ahead, Poi-Pet could tighten the ratchet a further notch and refuse re-admittance to those doing a border run and not holding a visa because they did not exit Thailand using the ticket they presented to gain admittance 30days previously.

I see on TV air-asia have ordered an Airbus A380 to use exclusively on the Bangkok-Penang route.

Actually you can do better than THAT:

Month 1 - 3 -----3 x Visa Runs 30 days each

month 3 - 6 -----2 month tourist visa + 1 month extention

month 6 - 9 -----2 month tourist visa + 1 month extention

Month 9 - 12 -----3 x Visa Runs 30 days each

Month 12 - 15 ---- 2 month tourist visa + 1 month extention

Month 15 - 18 ---- 2 month tourist visa + 1 month extention

Month 18 - 21 -----3 x Visa Runs 30 days each

THIS WAY - YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THAILAND WITHOUT PROPER VISA FOR MORE THAN 90 DAYS IN **ANY** 6 MONTH PERIOD. WHATEVER YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES THIS ITINERY FITS ALL EXPLAINATIONS AND SHOULD BE ALLOWED.

If you try to do 90 days visa runs than 90 days on a tourist visa and then 90 days on visa runs again you have broken the rule. As you will have been in thailand for 90 days already dring the previous 6 month period without a visa when you attempt to get a free visa on the day your tourist visa (extension) runs out.

Using the better above itinerary you only need to get a proper tourist visa twice a year and you will not be in thailand, at any point, in any 6 month period - historically, for more than 90 days in that period withot having a proper tourist visa.

As for this cra_Ap about land borders and onward flights - i think this is an april fools joke.

WOULD ONE OF THE MODS PLEASE INVESTIGATE THIS - AND REMOVE THE POST IF IT IS A JOKE BECAUSE IT IS ALARMING MANY OF THE POSTERS - THANK YOU

Edited April 9, 2007 by uk_falang

[Totster]

as i had mentioned earlier, for a frequent traveler to thailand and someone traveling within asia, this is a nightmare.

How so ? If you have a tourist visa obtained previously, no problem

it forces one into 30 day trip to thailand (not 35 or 45 or 60)

If you have a tourist visa you can stay for 60 days

it will disadvantage all land travel throughout the region

You have to have a visa to travel to Laos and Cambodia, people still travel to those countries with no disadvantage

it forces one into expensive tickets procured not from point a or b but country c

Does one need to show an onward ticket if a tourist visa is present ?

it may force some to purchase tickets they do not need nor will not use

See above

totster

[Crouton]

For what its worth,

I went to a Thai Consulate in the US today to get a tourist visa. I had to show a return ticket. I told them I would be traveling in and out of the country and asked them to explain what I would need and if I would be ok ( i threw out a for instance if I traveled out of the country came back in on a 30 but my plane didn't leave for 40 days so I would run out of 30 day exempt). They told me what is SUPPOSED to be happening is the 90/6 month rule with proof of return flight at the border but admitted they had no idea how the border people were counting the days and how strictly it was being enforced. I told them I was worried I would get caught running out of time on a 30 day exempt so they nicely gave me a 3x tourist visa. Very nice of them.

This maybe should be its own post but I also learned there that "Non residents are allowed to open foreign currency accounts with any commercial bank on Thailand" They use non-resident not in the visa sense of the term just a non-thai national. This seems to contradict what I read in other threads with the banks refusing to open accounts. I have it in Black and White here in the "Thailand Travel Guide" published by the "Tourism Authority of Thailand". Odd

[bubba]

Here's an interesting twist that happened to me week before last on a trip back to Bangkok following a business trip to the USA. The checkin counter agent was apparently reading from the information that was provided in an earlier post here with Delta Airlines rules (I was on United).

I have a long-term non-immigrant B and work permit and in the past, the counter agents always considered that as adequate for not requiring an outward bound ticket; however this time, with the apparent new enforcement of the rule, the counter agent read me what she had on her display (which read exactly as below) asked me if I had an APEC card (I don't) she was fully prepared to deny me boarding. She asked me if I had a "resident's visa", to which of course I said "yes" (of course I don't) and pointed out the indecipherable Thai Immigration stamps in my passport. She looked puzzled and eventually said "OK but we were asked to enforce these new Thai visa regulations at checkin. I guess you are OK".

Take this as a warning. The Thai entry regulations in airlines' computers do not apparently make an exception for visa holders of any kind, which they apparently did before.

Quote from Delta requirements:

Passport (must be in good condition) required.

1. If holding passport issued in Marshall Islands:

passport (must be valid for period of intended stay) and

visa required.

Travelling on one-way ticket is allowed.

2. In all other cases:

passport (valid at least 30 days) required.

Visa not required for a max. stay of 30 days, provided

coming for touristic purposes. Extension up to 10 days is

possible. Fee THB 500.- (1 photo required).

If passport is valid less than 30 days, stay will only be

permitted up to the validity of the passport.

Note: there is a max. limit of a total of 90 days within

any 6 month period.

Return/onward ticket is required.

If holding APEC Business Travel Card (clearly stating on the

reverse that it is valid for travel to Thailand):

visa not required, provided holding national passport and proof

of residence in the country that issued the ABTC.

Entry may be refused if of "hippy" appearance.

For more information see: For details, click here .

Visitor must hold all documents for next destination.

If being over 12 years old, visitor must also hold sufficient

funds to cover stay (at least THB 20,000.- or USD 500.- per

person/family).

Proof of funds includes letter of credit, vouchers, MCO's or

well-known credit cards (not applicable if holding re-entry

visa).

Non-compliance with the visa regulations will result in:

- refusal and immediate deportation of passenger;

- fines for the airline of THB 20,000,-;

- overstay fine for passenger of THB 500,- per day (but not

exceeding in total THB 20,000.-).

[PeaceBlondie]

"Entry may be refused if of "hippy" appearance." Yet one more reason they can refuse you entry.

Thanks to Crouton and bubba for the latest updates from US consulates and airlines.