Transmission (gear) oil for Honda Forza 2016 and ABS test

[Agusts]

After quite a few months I am back on my Honda Forza (again). I need to change oil and would like to put in 10w40 Shell Advance 100% synthetic Ultra Scooter (this is JASO MB for scooters as oppose to MA for bikes with slipper clutch). They come in 1 litre bottles but I need 1.2, so need to buy two....

 

Now I also need to change transmission (gear) oil, about 0.3 litre needed. I heard some people say you can just use the same engine oil, and some say it needs 80w90 (or 75w90), any Forza owners know what Honda puts in there... !? (I checked the manual I got online and there was no mention of gear oil type  !) 

 

By the way, I also tried/test the ABS, I do that every couple of months in a quiet road at about 40/50 km/h. The front brake causes the front wheel to stutter as you pull it hard, as expected , although I get the feeling if you are on a bend and slippery road this will not help much, I remember once at slow speed the wheel slipped a bit, when not straight, with ABS engaged (didn't go down but scary), ABS is really useful when going straight I am suspicious of it on a bend - if you had experience of ABS operating on a bend and slippery road and saved you skidding, let us know... !?

 

Now the back break pulled hard, causes the front wheel to stutter "again"... !!!??? The damn Combined Breaking System of Honda, I hate it, I can't remember if it was like this before. But it is supposed to do 70/30 (back/front), but it still effects the front like this, could be terrible in some situations when you do not want to engage the front, but you can't... With ABS I don't understand why Honda applies CBS too, a bit of nonsense really, I just hope it won't bring me down on a rainy day cornering - should sue Honda if that happens... !!!

 

 

[VocalNeal]

Gear Oil? I'm thinking the gear oil they sell at Honda. The main engine oil should be OK I've used Advance VSX for a few years in my two-stroke with no problems.

Edited January 9, 2020 by VocalNeal

[ktm jeff]

Yes , it is gear oil in the final drive. I would use a semi or fully synthetic 75/90.  VN , are you using VSX 2-stroke engine oil in your gearbox ?. There are specific 2-stroke gear oils  - light or medium weight.

[VocalNeal]

12 minutes ago, ktm jeff said:

Yes , it is gear oil in the final drive. I would use a semi or fully synthetic 75/90.  VN , are you using VSX 2-stroke engine oil in your gearbox ?. There are specific 2-stroke gear oils  - light or medium weight.

Of course I'm not. That is for the auto-lube. Just a reference to Shell Advance.

 

Again OP should just go to Honda and buy some gear oil. 

 

[ktm jeff]

Just checking !

 

[canthai55]

[VocalNeal]

10 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Exactly

[alx123]

Used to put the Honda gear oil on my PCX too, but my last change I used the one from motul being sold as a set together with the engine oil

 

Any gear oil will be fine I guess, don't overthink this.

 

Can't comment about the CBS/ABS combi, doesn't really make sense why Honda keeps the CBS on an ABS equipped Forza. 

[Agusts]

Okay, thanks,  just wanted to be sure, so Shell 10w40 for the engine, but special gear oil for final drive....

[Agusts]

3 hours ago, alx123 said:

 

Just noticed on this photo while it says SCOOTER , it also says "MA" down below, if that is JASO MA, that is specifically for bikes with manual slip clutch, MB is for scooters engine with CVT, so a bit confusing really, unless this oil can support both... !!!? I read the oil needs to have different characteristics for each engine types...

[johng]

I would say you can use MA or MB  engine oil for a scooter without a wet clutch ( CVT ) ...but for a bike with a wet clutch you should use only MA to prevent the clutch slipping.

 

Whether non MA oil would make the CVT belt slip is another question ???

 

Here is what Suzuki says  

Engine oil

 

Transmission oil

 

We see its the same oil but only 100 ml used in the transmission.

[VocalNeal]

3 minutes ago, johng said:

Whether non MA oil would make the CVT belt slip is another question ???

This will be good?

[alx123]

2 hours ago, Agusts said:

Just noticed on this photo while it says SCOOTER , it also says "MA" down below, if that is JASO MA, that is specifically for bikes with manual slip clutch, MB is for scooters engine with CVT, so a bit confusing really, unless this oil can support both... !!!? I read the oil needs to have different characteristics for each engine types...

AFAIK, JASO MA can be used for all motorcycles but JASO MB contains friction modifiers that might cause clutch slippage on wet clutches motorcycles. Forza clutch is located outside the engine,thus it's not submerge in oil, so no danger of slippage. 

 

[Agusts]

OKay, today I went to SuperCheap to check what they had, they have Shell Advance 100% Synthetic (10w40 and 15w50), but only says Ultra and it is MA2. I think before I have seen "Ultra Scooter" too , which I assume is MB, but they didn't have that.

 

Also they had Motul oil for scooters that says "Technosynthese" (whatever that is) but said MB on it - only one bottle left (I need 1.2l ).

 

Now interesting enough they had many Gear Oil, even had the Honda one shown above, and many others that said 80w90 (or 75w90), but there was also a Shell Advanced Gear Oil that clearly said 15w40 on it.... !!!? So as you can see there are all possibilities.  MA can be used for MB (as Suzuki says), and looks like engine oil and gear oil can be interchanged... ! Or maybe depends on the manufacturer...?

 

Finally I went to Honda shop, and found a guy who could speak a few words of English and had about 13 seconds to talk to me and gave me proper attention for about 7 seconds of that time... ! He said they have Casterol 100% Synthetic for 450b each, and I need two (ouuch, that is quite more expensive than other 100%). And he also said the Gear Oil for Forza must be different and can not put the same engine oil.

 

So I think I will buy Shell Advanced or Motul 100% that is marked MB from Lazada (usually it's free shipping) and just let them put the Honda Gear Oil that they have - I need 3 of those 120ml bottles, need 280ml for Forza).

 

 

 

[Agusts]

To confuse things even more, I read Honda PCX manual says the 10w30 oil can be used as Gear Oil and the Honda Final Gear Oil pictured above is in fact 10w30 oil - according to various sources. But then they say manufacturers just recommend/use the same engine oil as gear oil of scooters because it saves them money in supply chain... !!!? To be fair most people reckon there is little difference between viscosity of 10w30 and 80w90, it's just different additives and operating temperature etc., and either can be used as Gear Oil... what a mess ! (yes, I am over-thinking it, but who would have thought this simple thing could be not very clear...!?)

[alx123]

It's not confusing, you just haven't learned that engine oil and gear oil viscosity grading system are not the same, though they can be converted vice versa (see attached image)

 

 

images.jfif

Edited January 10, 2020 by alx123

[ktm jeff]

10 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

This will be good?

The CVT belt is dry , so unless there is a leak , the MA/MB oils make no difference. I thought MA oils contained EP extreme pressure additives to cater for the gearbox requirements , and no friction modifiers that cause clutch slip.  Scooters having CVT pulleys instead of gears , dry centrifugal clutches and dry belts can use friction modifiers , same as car oils do. Gear oils of 90 weight viscosity can sometimes be described as having a 30 crankcase weight. Gearboxes dont get as hot , so a 90 weight in a warm gearbox would thin out to 30 in a crankcase.  Shell Advance is about 360 Baht , Motul 300V nearly 1000 Baht. 500 ML of Shell 75/90 gear oil will be fine.

[papa al]

36 minutes ago, ktm jeff said:

 Shell Advance is about 360 Baht ,

Depends:

AX3 is B130/l

[canthai55]

For a Forza use whatever

We used ATF in gear style transfer cases in 4X4's in cold weather. Which is 5W. No issues

If it will stand that, your Forza will do so easy

700 baht or some other crazy price is nothing more than marketing hype

Edited January 10, 2020 by canthai55

[Agusts]

17 hours ago, alx123 said:

It's not confusing, you just haven't learned that engine oil and gear oil viscosity grading system are not the same, though they can be converted vice versa (see attached image)

 

 

images.jfif 44.33 kB · 6 downloads

Okay, that's good to know,  so would you put normal engine oil in your Honda scooter final drive gear or use special oil that is marked as gear oil... !?

[alx123]

7 hours ago, Agusts said:

Okay, that's good to know,  so would you put normal engine oil in your Honda scooter final drive gear or use special oil that is marked as gear oil... !?

I will, as long as it's within the recommended viscosity.

[ktm jeff]

23 hours ago, papa al said:

Depends:

AX3 is B130/l

True .. But the oil to which  the OP referred - Shell advance ultra 100% synthetic - is 360 Baht. Those others are lower quality/price , but many will say they are suitable too. I just prefer to put the highest quality oil in as i have to justify my decision only to me,myself and i. 

[papa al]

11 minutes ago, ktm jeff said:

 - Shell advance ultra 100% synthetic  I just prefer to put the highest quality oil in as i have to justify my decision only to me,myself and i. 

Shell ultra is really good.

Almost as good as Amsoil.

[Agusts]

Make sure using Shell Advance "Ultra Scooter" 100%...., that is the JASO MB for scooters, the other just "Ultra" alone is JASO MA2 and for manual bikes with clutch...

 

There maybe interchangeable in some cases, but why not use the correct spec... 

[Agusts]

This pack is 129b in super cheap, for automatic scooters MB, good value, but not quite 100% synthetic though...

 

Now why Shell is marking gear oil  SAE like engine oil SAE I have no idea, all other manufacturers put 80w90 for their gear oil SAE...!? As someone mentioned before they maybe equivalent but crazy of Shell if you ask me...!!! 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

If one visits a Honda dealer they have oils on display. 100 synthetic for engines together with transmission oil.

 

Why is shell transmission oil rated similar to engine oil? I believe the 90 weight type oils for cars are for hypoid gears which scooters don't have.

 

Incidentally those 80/90 numbers can be misleading a bit as the viscosity of 90 gear oil is about he same as 50 engine oil

Edited November 3, 2020 by VocalNeal

[UncleMhee]

3 hours ago, Sasisa said:

Good afternoon. Can you please tell me the 2010 transmission fluid for my car? Does it differ?

Last question first.....NO!

This oil will be a perfect match for all 2010 transmission fluid.....both manual & auto.

[canthai55]

[VocalNeal]

As a true motorcyclist would know? If you are going vegetable there is only one real choice?

 

[Agusts]

Since I posted in January about Shell gear oil I saw Honda actually also recommends putting 10w40 , same engine oil, in the Forza gear/transmission..., and as the chart above shows they (engine 10w40 and gear 80w90) are actually very similar in characteristics...

 

I'm pretty sure though this decision is very much economical too, imagine not having to stock and use two oils, engine and gear oil...

 

Either one is fine, my friend uses his fully 100% synthetic Shell engine oil in his Aerox transmission for last 4 years (60+k km now) no problem, I'm using gear 80w90 in my old Forza though...