UK Pensions and related info

[sandyf]

On 2/1/2021 at 8:11 AM, billd766 said:

I got an email this morning with a link to an Daily Telegraph article of 39th January 2021 which may be of interest to us frozen pensioners.

 

I opened the link which gave me the content but I was unable to copy and paste the format.

 

Here is the link which you can get to the content and expand the PDF file.

 

https://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/Canadian-Pensions-Article.pdf

 

It has cheered up my Monday morning a bit.

Looks like the article was not up to date Bill, there was a written question on Australia and Canada and a government answer was given on Jan 11th.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2020-12-17/131193

 

In the latest briefing paper they have once again ruled out any change without any reference to the APPG inquiry.

[keithsimmonds]

One question...you have been here for 10 years you declared you lived here when you claimed your pension,your pension has been frozen for the last 9 years....you go back to the UK for 2 months this year your pension is thereby upgrade to the current175/178 pounds a week.....what will your pension be when you then return to Thailand??

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Looks like the article was not up to date Bill, there was a written question on Australia and Canada and a government answer was given on Jan 11th.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2020-12-17/131193

 

In the latest briefing paper they have once again ruled out any change without any reference to the APPG inquiry.

SSDD

[theoldgit]

15 minutes ago, keithsimmonds said:

One question...you have been here for 10 years you declared you lived here when you claimed your pension,your pension has been frozen for the last 9 years....you go back to the UK for 2 months this year your pension is thereby upgrade to the current175/178 pounds a week.....what will your pension be when you then return to Thailand??

it goes back to the previous frozen rate I think, I think you actually have actually been living in the UK to retain the new rate, the figure of six months rings a bell, though it might be higher.

[PGSan]

9 hours ago, UKresonant said:

After qualifying for the full state pension in 2010 and then qualifying again in 2015, and having now paid 40 years + I just need another 6 years contributions to get the full new state pension ????

This all sounds most peculiar!  So do you mean that you could have started your “full state pension” (or deferred it) in 2010, but you did not do so?   Or does “qualifying for” mean something different? 

[vogie]

2 hours ago, theoldgit said:

it goes back to the previous frozen rate I think, I think you actually have actually been living in the UK to retain the new rate, the figure of six months rings a bell, though it might be higher.

I seem to remember from an old thread on frozen pensions that 2 years was mentioned but was not guarenteed, it said at the end of the day it was up to the descretion of the pension officer.

[theoldgit]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

I seem to remember from an old thread on frozen pensions that 2 years was mentioned but was not guarenteed, it said at the end of the day it was up to the descretion of the pension officer.

 

That certainly rings a bell.

[Tanoshi]

9 hours ago, UKresonant said:

After qualifying for the full state pension in 2010 and then qualifying again in 2015, and having now paid 40 years + I just need another 6 years contributions to get the full new state pension 

It used to be 30 qualifying years to get the full state pension, increased to 35 years in 2016 when they introduced the new state pension scheme. I retired early 2014 aged 60 (nearly 61) with 42 qualifying years.

I started drawing my state pension in 2018 and was paid the higher amount under the new state pension scheme.

[UKresonant]

2 hours ago, PGSan said:

This all sounds most peculiar!  So do you mean that you could have started your “full state pension” (or deferred it) in 2010, but you did not do so?   Or does “qualifying for” mean something different? 

Only had the correct number of NI years at each of 2010 and 2015, that was the required number of years, for the then full basic pension of the time.

Then when it was changed to the current scheme in 2016, it was only the couple of years following 2015, not being contracted out I made progress towards the now current maximum....

Don't get the option to defer until about 2030/2031ish. 

I think 2016 was when they also capped many with the Second state pension, that could get a theoretical max, of say,  £200 to £150 at the time, in the name of standardisation. 

[UKresonant]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

It used to be 30 qualifying years to get the full state pension, increased to 35 years in 2016 when they introduced the new state pension scheme. I retired early 2014 aged 60 (nearly 61) with 42 qualifying years.

I started drawing my state pension in 2018 and was paid the higher amount under the new state pension scheme.

 

I was in a defined benefit scheme till 2015, then I opted to change to the Defined contribution scheme, seeing the detail of the changes, had the spreadsheets set up they were about even over a few years. Then not contracted out. If only that DB scheme had kept going untouched for another few years...????, un-amended.

At the start of 2020, we made the decision that the boy would do his Secondary School in the UK, so I would get him settled in, and get a job, commuting by train, in part to get my state up to max. and create another company pension. That's kinda stalled in a big way with the Covid.

????.  

 

You may of gathered that I detest that non-indexing rule on the State Pension, though I would not be impacted for a least 10 years, you can't even defer it with increases apparently. 

[Tanoshi]

I take it, under that defined benefit scheme you were contracted out.

[UKresonant]

12 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I take it, under that defined benefit scheme you were contracted out.

Yes. 

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

Yes. 

You are aware for years contracted out, they will deducted a certain amount from your government state pension.

[sandyf]

On 2/18/2021 at 11:49 AM, keithsimmonds said:

One question...you have been here for 10 years you declared you lived here when you claimed your pension,your pension has been frozen for the last 9 years....you go back to the UK for 2 months this year your pension is thereby upgrade to the current175/178 pounds a week.....what will your pension be when you then return to Thailand??

I came to live here in 2008 and claimed my pension in 2012. In the first couple of years I never bothered claiming for the time in the UK, not worth the hassle, but have done so for the last 6 years. I have always done it in writing and was asked for proof of time in the UK, I normally use boarding cards. There is no change in your pension, the difference is paid separately. The second time I did it there was a problem and I ended making a formal complaint and got £25 for poor service, something that may have been impossible if I didn't have the signed receipt for my original letter.

Extract from payment receipt.

It is worth noting that the DWP work to weekly intervals and it is to the week above, one year I got 5 weeks for 30 days.

Edited February 19, 2021 by sandyf

[sandyf]

On 2/18/2021 at 2:28 PM, vogie said:

I seem to remember from an old thread on frozen pensions that 2 years was mentioned but was not guarenteed, it said at the end of the day it was up to the descretion of the pension officer.

I would agree and I am fairly sure I have seen words to that effect in an official document. I also seem to remember some discretionary aspect but think that was for periods of less than the 2 years.

After 9 years of looking into it a lot to try and remember.

[billd766]

On 2/18/2021 at 2:34 PM, Tanoshi said:

It used to be 30 qualifying years to get the full state pension, increased to 35 years in 2016 when they introduced the new state pension scheme. I retired early 2014 aged 60 (nearly 61) with 42 qualifying years.

I started drawing my state pension in 2018 and was paid the higher amount under the new state pension scheme.

It was 44 years when I drew mine in 2009. It has changed 3 times since then. No matter what the qualifying period was or is now mine, stays at the rate when I got it and NO refunds for paying for more years than is needed now.

[sandyf]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

It was 44 years when I drew mine in 2009. It has changed 3 times since then. No matter what the qualifying period was or is now mine, stays at the rate when I got it and NO refunds for paying for more years than is needed now.

Yes Bill, many never knew about the 44 years, lot of complaints when it went from 30 to 35.

Friend of mine got made redundant when he was 50, had 30 at the time and paid voluntary for a long time before it was dropped down to 30. He wrote and asked for a refund, you can imagine the reply.

[UKresonant]

On 2/18/2021 at 11:13 AM, Tanoshi said:

You are aware for years contracted out, they will deducted a certain amount from your government state pension.

Yes that is in the calc. so 46 years full NI I get a full pension. They said.

[dabhand]

Just spotted the latest National Insurance Fund report for year ended 31 March 2020.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/954496/Great_Britain_National_Insurance_Fund_Account_-_2019_to_2020.pdf

This fund is mainly used to fund all state pension payments (95%) with the main source of income being the NIC payments.

 

Makes for interesting reading with the current balance at 36.9billion having ballooned by 12.7 billion over the last two years.

 

Seemingly there is a statutory requirement to have a minimum of 1/6th of contributions held at any time, this being approx 17billion currently. With an added contingency of 5.1 billion in place to cover any possible future shortfall. Unlikely to be needed based on the present balance. However there is a note on the uncertainty of the covid impact on future status of the fund and this is being closely monitored.

 

The next report will certainly be of interest, both in terms of the covid impact and also the recently announced married women's adjustment, budgeted at 3 billion.

 

Should the surplus remain around the current level it may give greater emphasis to the chance of a change in the frozen pensions issue. Having resolved the married women's case and with the plan to re-enfranchise overseas Brits, no matter how long they have been away from the UK, could that be an opportunity to redress this glaring inequality. And then I woke up.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56265898

[essexman]

Well as I hit 66 in July, I thought I'd better make a start on applying for my UK state pension.  I went online and into the GOV.UK website.  I eventually bought up the form IPC BR1 NSP.  This is 26 pages of information they require from you.  It looked quite daunting to start with, but I worked my way through it.  They said I needed to send the form to the UK, along with my marriage and birth certificate. 

I could send copies, as long as they were signed by a civil servant a doctor or surgeon registered under the laws of the country where the declaration is made a minister of religion a barrister, solicitor or advocate authorised to practice in the country where the declaration is made a notary public or any person allowed to administer oaths in the country where the declaration is made an officer of a bank authorised to sign documents .

 

I was told by a friend who had recently turned 66 that he did his application over the phone, so I thought I'd try that route first.  Save the time and expence of getting my documents signed.

I phoned the number yesterday and spoke to a very nice woman who told me she could do the application on the phone and it would take approximately fifteen minutes.  I had the form filled out on my laptop so had all the answers to her questions in front of me.  She only asked about 50% of the relevant questions on the form, and within the fifteen minutes it was completed.  I'd put six hundred baht on my phone expecting a long wait to get through, but I needn't have bothered as the woman took my number at the start of the call and told me if we got cut off she would ring me back.  The lenght of the call was seventeen minutes and cost around 130 baht.

[keithsimmonds]

On 3/16/2021 at 9:25 AM, essexman said:

Well as I hit 66 in July, I thought I'd better make a start on applying for my UK state pension.  I went online and into the GOV.UK website.  I eventually bought up the form IPC BR1 NSP.  This is 26 pages of information they require from you.  It looked quite daunting to start with, but I worked my way through it.  They said I needed to send the form to the UK, along with my marriage and birth certificate. 

I could send copies, as long as they were signed by a civil servant a doctor or surgeon registered under the laws of the country where the declaration is made a minister of religion a barrister, solicitor or advocate authorised to practice in the country where the declaration is made a notary public or any person allowed to administer oaths in the country where the declaration is made an officer of a bank authorised to sign documents .

 

I was told by a friend who had recently turned 66 that he did his application over the phone, so I thought I'd try that route first.  Save the time and expence of getting my documents signed.

I phoned the number yesterday and spoke to a very nice woman who told me she could do the application on the phone and it would take approximately fifteen minutes.  I had the form filled out on my laptop so had all the answers to her questions in front of me.  She only asked about 50% of the relevant questions on the form, and within the fifteen minutes it was completed.  I'd put six hundred baht on my phone expecting a long wait to get through, but I needn't have bothered as the woman took my number at the start of the call and told me if we got cut off she would ring me back.  The lenght of the call was seventeen minutes and cost around 130 baht.

Phoning sounds the way to go.....could you post the phone number you called please....Thanks.

[OJAS]

On 3/20/2021 at 9:03 AM, keithsimmonds said:

Phoning sounds the way to go.....could you post the phone number you called please....Thanks.

 

Almost certainly the IPC's State Pension enquiries number, +44 (0) 191 218 7777, available between 9.30am and 3.30pm UK time Monday to Friday, I think. This was the number I called in order to "clear" my latest Life Certificate at IPC's suggestion in lieu of the normal witnessing process a few months ago. Looks like the IPC are offering us the telephonic option for dealing with a number of matters normally only possible by snail mail for the duration of the COVID-19 pandemic at least.

Edited March 21, 2021 by OJAS

[izod10]

prakhonchai nick

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I have to ask here as the poster(left) posted the following a few days ago and now appears to dodge any questioning,would anyone know the apparent circumstances for its refusal for further correspondence?

 

"This topic is about  DWP state pension, payable from age 65 onwards in the past and somewhat later these days.

On the claim form one enters the address, and if living in Thailand your state pension is frozen."

 

"Some people will apply with a UK address with payment to a UK bank, and as such no life certificates are sent out. You will also receive annual increases...................BUT that is illegal, and if you are found out, as some are, there are consequences, one of which being that you will have to repay all the extra money received!"

 

More importantly is he correct?

 

[maxcorrigan]

13 hours ago, izod10 said:

prakhonchai nick

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I have to ask here as the poster(left) posted the following a few days ago and now appears to dodge any questioning,would anyone know the apparent circumstances for its refusal for further correspondence?

 

"This topic is about  DWP state pension, payable from age 65 onwards in the past and somewhat later these days.

On the claim form one enters the address, and if living in Thailand your state pension is frozen."

 

"Some people will apply with a UK address with payment to a UK bank, and as such no life certificates are sent out. You will also receive annual increases...................BUT that is illegal, and if you are found out, as some are, there are consequences, one of which being that you will have to repay all the extra money received!"

 

More importantly is he correct?

 

I was found out 10 months later through i think returned mail from my old address, they were very very nice about the fact i was living in Thailand informing me my pension would be frozen at the time i arrived in Thailand my pension was then reset to that time (there had been one increase by DWP) they did not ask or take back any of the extra money i had received just reset my pension payments, maybe if i been claiming the extra money over a longer period the outcome may have been different, but that was my experience FWIW! 

[izod10]

59 minutes ago, maxcorrigan said:

I was found out 10 months later through i think returned mail from my old address, they were very very nice about the fact i was living in Thailand informing me my pension would be frozen at the time i arrived in Thailand my pension was then reset to that time (there had been one increase by DWP) they did not ask or take back any of the extra money i had received just reset my pension payments, maybe if i been claiming the extra money over a longer period the outcome may have been different, but that was my experience FWIW! 

 

This is all it ever could be.

 

 Its a pity you saddled yourself up to a frozen pension,entering a world of financial pain,plus a run around for the life form

 

Thailand is a frozen country as UK benefits go,no need to live under one tho...DWP website

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, maxcorrigan said:

I was found out 10 months later through i think returned mail from my old address, they were very very nice about the fact i was living in Thailand informing me my pension would be frozen at the time i arrived in Thailand my pension was then reset to that time (there had been one increase by DWP) they did not ask or take back any of the extra money i had received just reset my pension payments, maybe if i been claiming the extra money over a longer period the outcome may have been different, but that was my experience FWIW! 

 

A close personal friend of mine retired to Thailand before reaching state pension age, but at 65 received his state pension + AVC's and annual increases as he used a UK relatives address.

He confided in the wrong person, whom he later had a disagreement with and they snitched on him to the DWP.

As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now). They were deducting £20 every 4 weeks from his Pension, but due to his increasing age, last year they announced they were raising the deduction to £50 every 4 weeks.

He appealed stating that amount seriously affected his quality of life.

 

He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021.

We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them.  ????

[izod10]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

 

A close personal friend of mine retired to Thailand before reaching state pension age, but at 65 received his state pension + AVC's and annual increases as he used a UK relatives address.

He confided in the wrong person, whom he later had a disagreement with and they snitched on him to the DWP.

As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now). They were deducting £20 every 4 weeks from his Pension, but due to his increasing age, last year they announced they were raising the deduction to £50 every 4 weeks.

He appealed stating that amount seriously affected his quality of life.

 

He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021.

We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them.  ????

 

 It matters not if he was "snitched" (state pension) nothing would be done This friend of yours  and its always somebody else, could not have been on state pension,maybe pension credit.  There are regulations governing the state pension,firstly no over payments can be extracted,no punishment imposed either,if you wish to inform,up to you and you will be frozen,keep an address in UK OK

 

It only the ignominious crowd ,comfort in numbers that get irritated ,the frozen ones

 

Pre_requisite of understanding DWP rules/regulations is being able to read,  secondly to read and understand the relevant details in the DWP website,then act accordingly.

 

  If there is anybody that wants to mouth off at me being wrong,then firstly show me a passage from the DWP website specifically covering state pension

[topt]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

If there is anybody that wants to mouth off at me

no but see - 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-overpayment-recovery-staff-guide/benefit-overpayment-recovery-guide

Quote

Appendix 1 – Prescribed social security benefits/payments:

DWP benefits that we can recover overpayments of under social security legislation (S71 of the Social Security Administration Act) and that we can take compulsory deductions from:

• Attendance Allowance
• Bereavement Support Payment (overpayments of BSP only)
• Carer’s Allowance
• Disability Living Allowance (DLA)
• Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
• Incapacity Benefit
• Income Support
• Industrial Death Benefit
• Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit
• Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA)
• Maternity Allowance
• New State Pension
• New style Jobseeker’s Allowance*
• New style ESA**
• Pension Credit
• Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
• Pneumoconiosis, Byssinosis and Miscellaneous Disease Benefit
• Reduced Earnings Allowance
• Retirement Pension
• Severe Disablement Allowance
• State Pension
• Universal Credit
• Widows Benefit
• Widowed Mothers Allowance
• Workers Compensation (Supplementation) Benefit

 

New State pension and State pension clearly mentioned in the list.......... 

[izod10]

3 hours ago, topt said:

no but see - 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-overpayment-recovery-staff-guide/benefit-overpayment-recovery-guide

 

New State pension and State pension clearly mentioned in the list.......... 

Disqualifying benefits

Only sanctionable benefits can be reduced or stopped. Some benefits are not sanctioned but instead called disqualifying benefits.

These include but are not limited to:

• Retirement Pension
• Disability Living Allowance
• Attendance Allowance
• Personal Independence payment

If fraud is committed against one of these benefits it may lead to a penalty against a benefit which can be sanctioned.   

   ....and so is the later version stated,no reduction of state pension

[topt]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

Disqualifying benefits

Only sanctionable benefits can be reduced or stopped. Some benefits are not sanctioned but instead called disqualifying benefits.

These include but are not limited to:

• Retirement Pension
• Disability Living Allowance
• Attendance Allowance
• Personal Independence payment

If fraud is committed against one of these benefits it may lead to a penalty against a benefit which can be sanctioned.   

   ....and so is the later version stated,no reduction of state pension

Why don't you post the link that is taken from so others can see for themselves - presuming it is not in the link I posted?

 

Similar statements here -

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud

 

Which agrees with what you wrote. Based on my earlier link it suggests though that they could take you to court if they really wanted to but in most cases probably would not bother.