"Complaining" about Thai immigration issues while still loving Thailand

[BritManToo]

Just now, Puchaiyank said:

You would miss me...????

I'd miss you, you have my permission to keep posting here.

Edited January 17, 2020 by BritManToo

[scottiddled]

Crud, I missed rule #2,308.b of these forums: all posters must have stropper's permission to express their views.

Edited January 17, 2020 by scottiddled
removed "naughty" word

[Thingamabob]

What is wrong with the simple, sensible advice to leave if you don't like it here ? 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

What is wrong with the simple, sensible advice to leave if you don't like it here ? 

What wrong with that advice?... Answer: The lack of imagination involved with suggesting such advice...  advice often suggested by the same clowns who suggest the ‘farang is always at fault’ along with all the rest of the daft, dumb, unimaginative offerings presented by posters who are simply unaware they are dumb !!!

[Capt Rob]

On 1/14/2020 at 11:39 AM, Matzzon said:

You seem to be hung up on the phrase "If you do not like it. Get Out!". Sad to hear, because that is such a useful phrase to be used on many comments in this forum. For example on all the constant complainers.

 

The phrase is not despicable in any kind of way. It´s probably not used to tell somebody to leave directly, but more as making a point that the complainer should just go back in the line and hide.

 

It´s just to understand this. When you choose to reside long term or settle down in Thailand, then you do not take your western values with you. That is a part of what you chose to leave. When all the expats in Thailand understand that, then we can all live in harmony.

I think the OP who pointed out that those who acquiesce are in a sense part of what ails society in general is hard to discredit - understandably those who whinge endlessly can be a trial, but that is different to expressing an opinion

[jimn]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

I think most of the moaning here is about immigration. They don't have the financial requirements to stay here. They are not genuine tourists and they have been using all sorts of loopholes in the past to continue staying here. They now complain  all the time because immigration is closing the loopholes and enforcing the law. Many of them don't want to go back to their own country because they're so ugly and unattractive that they could never find a decent looking girl where they come from. And most of them have no idea about the situation in other countries because they never been anywhere else except Thailand.

 

Congratulations. You are exactly the type of person the OP's thread is about.

[Thaidream]

This is an open forum.  Topics are posted and posters can give their opinion.

 

Western countries  would have never improved, if it's citizens didn't complain, criticize those who had the power to hange things and then be proactive in continuing to demand change. The same in Thailand to a certain extent- except  it takes a major issue that affects millions before a real change takes place.

 

As people who work here; reside here and  some who pay taxes here- we should have a right to an opinion about those things Thai as long as done respectfully and within the limits of local sensibilities and proper decorum.

 

Many of us who have been here decades  came to a Thailand which was  mostly poor; had tons of hope; pristine beaches; lovely and friendly people and a promise for  a real future for everyone.  Unfortunately, some of these things have been degraded for various reasons. 

 

We fell in love with Thai culture; Thai people; Thai food and everything Thai- except one thing-  the bureacracy has always been loathed by both Thais and foreigners.

 

Much of the complaining for us really long stayers  centers on a  bureacracy that refuses to recognize our legitimacy to  stay without hassles; a recognition of reciprocity and being treated the same in Thailand as our Thai relatives are in our own countries. When one marries a Thai citizen, we are simply treated as a long stay tourist while  in the reverse after a few years- our  spouses would have every right and benefit of a citizen (except voting)/

 

I fully accept all the differences of living in Thailand- culture wise; driving habits; religious preferences and other idiosyncracies. In fact,  most I wouldn't change.

 

While I have to accept Immigration anomilies; different treatment at different offics; ridiculous changes in policy and laws which some cannot even comply  with , such as medical insurance. due to age and a system that refuses to bend without being primed by agents- that doesn't mean I have to like it or shouldn't complain about it.  There is a universal principle that is expected everywhere by everyone- fairness and equity.

 

If no one ever complains about improtant things such as  bad laws or pollution or  abuse of students- nothing will ever change.  As foreigners, we have no advocacy groups except our Embassies or Chambers of Commerce to try and get the bureacracy to listen to our plights.

 

This forum,  is a lifeline for many who are uninformed; having problems; just plain lonely and need to complain.  IMO,  if one does not like the topic- move on to one that you like.

 

Telling a poster to go back to their birth country or leave Thailand is not only rude and offensive- it shows a lack of tolerance.   Many of us in Thailand-are already home!

 

 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

I actually find it most interesting how some people think, that you can not complain, just because you are living in another country than the one you were born in. 
Also, the real existing immigration problems, air pollution and more, have nothing to do with loving Thailand for 'everything' else. 

 

If people live in my country and complain about things that are to complain about, they are welcome to do so too.
And to those who say like you have to leave if you complain, you would not apply that back home, just because of being born there? Nationalistic thinking.

It is as BritManToo said already, a form of denial. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[Thaidream]

21 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

What is wrong with the simple, sensible advice to leave if you don't like it here ? 

Quote

 

If a person posts with a particular issue or complaint- they should be treated with respect.

 

The response to leave is rude; disrespectful and shows a lack of compassion and common decency.   There is nothing positive about the response.  

 

If you don't agree- simply state why and your experience.  Why resort to a personal attack or a statement that is fuelled by negativity.

[statman78]

I have no problems with the complainers but if all you do is complain and can’t find 1 good thing to say then I feel sorry for you since you must have a miserable life.  
No place is perfect and no place is so bad that it has no positive features.  I prefer to focus on the positives and TRY to let the negatives go.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

I think most of the moaning here is about immigration. They don't have the financial requirements to stay here. They are not genuine tourists and they have been using all sorts of loopholes in the past to continue staying here. They now complain  all the time because immigration is closing the loopholes and enforcing the law. Many of them don't want to go back to their own country because they're so ugly and unattractive that they could never find a decent looking girl where they come from. And most of them have no idea about the situation in other countries because they never been anywhere else except Thailand.

I agreed to the beginning of your comment.

But why did you have to start with the "ugly and unattractive"? We are all getting older and even if we take care most of us don't look very attractive to 20 year old girls. But in Thailand the girls still smile at us and talk to us and even laugh about some stupid jokes. That's a lot better than getting the "you are a dirty old man" treatment back "home".

[NoshowJones]

On 1/14/2020 at 11:39 AM, Matzzon said:

You seem to be hung up on the phrase "If you do not like it. Get Out!". Sad to hear, because that is such a useful phrase to be used on many comments in this forum. For example on all the constant complainers.

 

The phrase is not despicable in any kind of way. It´s probably not used to tell somebody to leave directly, but more as making a point that the complainer should just go back in the line and hide.

 

It´s just to understand this. When you choose to reside long term or settle down in Thailand, then you do not take your western values with you. That is a part of what you chose to leave. When all the expats in Thailand understand that, then we can all live in harmony.

I am sometimes described as a Thai basher, and pity help any westerner in my company who ever tells me "if I don't like it go home". You will always get me bashing the majority of Thai drivers amd motorbike riders, and regularly complaining about Thai immigration.

On the other hand, I am always praising most of the Thai people for their honesty, decency, and being very non confrontational. No matter what country you are in there will be positives and negatives, and Thailand is no exception.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I am sometimes described as a Thai basher, and pity help any westerner in my company who ever tells me "if I don't like it go home". You will always get me bashing the majority of Thai drivers amd motorbike riders, and regularly complaining about Thai immigration.

On the other hand, I am always praising most of the Thai people for their honesty, decency, and being very non confrontational. No matter what country you are in there will be positives and negatives, and Thailand is no exception.

So why are your bashing and complaining? You are long enough here so that you should be used to it.

Or did any of your bashing or complaining ever improve the situation even slightly?

[URMySunshine]

1 hour ago, stropper said:

look you have left , no money no honey , why do not you just <deleted> off, stop whinging and get on with your <deleted> life now in the u s of a, i am so sick of you, i have no problems living in thailand at all, but then maybe i have some money to support myself as obvisioly you have not, bloody pom whingers now we have got a yank who tops the list!

Que ? difficult to understand cross-thread beefs particularly if they are drunk !

[473geo]

On 1/14/2020 at 8:15 AM, Gecko123 said:

Please read my post again. I didn't say, "people who don't moan are trapped here." I said, 'people who are trapped here often don't like to listen to moaning, (even if they know what is being said is true), because, other than to put up with the status quo, they really have few other options open to them.' Big difference.

 

Not really - people who don't appreciate the moaning like myself do not feel this is the correct approach to living in Thailand, indeed when this attitude carries out into the public domain complaining can be very detrimental to the Thai view of foreigners.

 

Doesn't take genius to understand that in any country the indigenous population are very sensitive to criticism from non nationals. Some of the blunt insensitive criticism and downright Thai bashing on forums is there for all to see.

 

Now guys in this thread are having a hard time convincing Joe average and Mr and Mrs Thai that they think Thailand is great place to live when all the appearance is of a person who takes every opportunity to complain about a country in which they chose to live.

 

Hence one can fully understand the view, you chose to come here, if the way Thailand is run by Thai people is not living up to your expectations, you are free to leave, just as you chose to leave your country of birth.

 

Lets face it, how many people came here with the intention of fixing Thailand, and how many came because of the relaxed lifestyle one can enjoy if not getting uptight about the way things are.

 

Root cause of moaning on a forum - boredom and isolation - moaners need to find a new hobby

 

[URMySunshine]

21 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

This is an open forum.  Topics are posted and posters can give their opinion.

 

Western countries  would have never improved, if it's citizens didn't complain, criticize those who had the power to hange things and then be proactive in continuing to demand change. The same in Thailand to a certain extent- except  it takes a major issue that affects millions before a real change takes place.

 

As people who work here; reside here and  some who pay taxes here- we should have a right to an opinion about those things Thai as long as done respectfully and within the limits of local sensibilities and proper decorum.

 

Many of us who have been here decades  came to a Thailand which was  mostly poor; had tons of hope; pristine beaches; lovely and friendly people and a promise for  a real future for everyone.  Unfortunately, some of these things have been degraded for various reasons. 

 

We fell in love with Thai culture; Thai people; Thai food and everything Thai- except one thing-  the bureacracy has always been loathed by both Thais and foreigners.

 

Much of the complaining for us really long stayers  centers on a  bureacracy that refuses to recognize our legitimacy to  stay without hassles; a recognition of reciprocity and being treated the same in Thailand as our Thai relatives are in our own countries. When one marries a Thai citizen, we are simply treated as a long stay tourist while  in the reverse after a few years- our  spouses would have every right and benefit of a citizen (except voting)/

 

I fully accept all the differences of living in Thailand- culture wise; driving habits; religious preferences and other idiosyncracies. In fact,  most I wouldn't change.

 

While I have to accept Immigration anomilies; different treatment at different offics; ridiculous changes in policy and laws which some cannot even comply  with , such as medical insurance. due to age and a system that refuses to bend without being primed by agents- that doesn't mean I have to like it or shouldn't complain about it.  There is a universal principle that is expected everywhere by everyone- fairness and equity.

 

If no one ever complains about improtant things such as  bad laws or pollution or  abuse of students- nothing will ever change.  As foreigners, we have no advocacy groups except our Embassies or Chambers of Commerce to try and get the bureacracy to listen to our plights.

 

This forum,  is a lifeline for many who are uninformed; having problems; just plain lonely and need to complain.  IMO,  if one does not like the topic- move on to one that you like.

 

Telling a poster to go back to their birth country or leave Thailand is not only rude and offensive- it shows a lack of tolerance.   Many of us in Thailand-are already home!

 

 

 

Well said - so sod off Galileo with your earth goes round the sun nonsense. If you don't like the current orthodoxy we can burn you. Take heed.

[URMySunshine]

4 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Not really - people who don't appreciate the moaning like myself do not feel this is the correct approach to living in Thailand, indeed when this attitude carries out into the public domain complaining can be very detrimental to the Thai view of foreigners.

 

Doesn't take genius to understand that in any country the indigenous population are very sensitive to criticism from non nationals. Some of the blunt insensitive criticism and downright Thai bashing on forums is there for all to see.

 

Now guys in this thread are having a hard time convincing Joe average and Mr and Mrs Thai that they think Thailand is great place to live when all the appearance is of a person who takes every opportunity to complain about a country in which they chose to live.

 

Hence one can fully understand the view, you chose to come here, if the way Thailand is run by Thai people is not living up to your expectations, you are free to leave, just as you chose to leave your country of birth.

 

Lets face it, how many people came here with the intention of fixing Thailand, and how many came because of the relaxed lifestyle one can enjoy if not getting uptight about the way things are.

 

Root cause of moaning on a forum - boredom and isolation - moaners need to find a new hobby

 

You do know that you are moaning on a forum about folk moaning on a forum ?

[NoshowJones]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

So why are your bashing and complaining? You are long enough here so that you should be used to it.

Or did any of your bashing or complaining ever improve the situation even slightly?

I try to see both sides of everything and will always say what I think. If every member of Thaivisa had your attitude, I am not necessary saying you are completely wrong, but we probably would not have much of a forum left.

I like to hear peoples complaints and also their praises, that is the point of having a forum like Thaivisa.

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

Well said - so sod off Galileo with your earth goes round the sun nonsense. If you don't like the current orthodoxy we can burn you. Take heed.

 

7 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

You do know that you are moaning on a forum about folk moaning on a forum ?

Excellent posts Sir, could not have put it better,

[473geo]

7 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

You do know that you are moaning on a forum about folk moaning on a forum ?

Absolutely currently in the UK bored and isolated ????

[sungod]

On 1/14/2020 at 6:41 PM, mike787 said:

I agree!!!  I was told by some longtime expats here, they don't bother with TVF because of the negativity.  

Personally I think you are wrong there, they all read it but shy to admit it as they dont want to be branded billy no mates and a loser ????

 

At least that's my excuse........... and I'm sticking to it.

[Stevemercer]

There is nothing wrong with voicing a complaint, expressing discontent or suggesting there may be better ways of doing things. If enough people say the same thing then changes will probably happen. Ultimately that is how democracy works.

 

If people just accept everything, take the view that complaining won't make any difference, they will be persecuted if they complain, or can't be bothered, then nothing will change. I guess that is the basis of authoritarian rule.

 

Sure, we are guests in Thailand, but it is reasonable to moan about things that directly affect us and our lives. Thai authorities may not be responsive, but they are susceptible to social pressure and can see reason if enough people say the same thing.

 

AS Marge Simpson once said 'One person can make a difference, but most times they probably shouldn't'.

[khunPer]

I've been staying in LoS almost 15 years now on retirement extensions, and during that period I've seen more improvements than obstacles; even it sounds like the opposite when reading some of the threads in Thaivisa forums.

 

Those os us expats that OP, and probably also others, might view as "forum regulars who seem to defend everything Thai authorities do and/or criticize every critic", might rather be some that has noticed the many improvements over some time, and also appreciate that regulations and rules are followed for the benefit of »good guys in, bad guys out«, as a well media-profiled immigration boss stated it.

 

Where I stay in Thailand the authorities have improved a lot in efficiency – not the least the local immigration office, in spite of slightly more complex rules the later years – with just a bit of preparation most things are handled easy and smooth. Thaivisa forums, especially the local ones, are very good help for being able to prepare whatever needed, and to understand the procedures in advance.

Furthermore the infrastructure improves a little all the time – in spite of rapid development, where many needs arise in many areas, so it can be difficult to keep up – even the improvements could be made faster og better planned, they are still improvements. I'm not arguing against that it could be done better when compared to one's home country, or some other places out in the big World.

 

Honestly, I don't understand people, who feel so unhappy in LoS that they need to complain like an ever lasting blues, continue to stay here, instead of either moving home – where everything seems to be much better, as it's often compared to when telling about how bad things are in Thailand – or move on to another place, where things might function better.

????

[OneMoreFarang]

16 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I try to see both sides of everything and will always say what I think. If every member of Thaivisa had your attitude, I am not necessary saying you are completely wrong, but we probably would not have much of a forum left.

I like to hear peoples complaints and also their praises, that is the point of having a forum like Thaivisa.

I agree with the both sides.

I am also complaining from time to time about one of those idiot drivers. The important part here is the "from time to time". In you comment if sounded like you complain all the time about that. And I think that is not very helpful - including for your own well being.

[shackleton]

What no complainers on Thai visa moaning about something

What's the world coming to 

Thai visa would seek to exist 

 

[Matzzon]

36 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I am sometimes described as a Thai basher, and pity help any westerner in my company who ever tells me "if I don't like it go home". You will always get me bashing the majority of Thai drivers amd motorbike riders, and regularly complaining about Thai immigration.

On the other hand, I am always praising most of the Thai people for their honesty, decency, and being very non confrontational. No matter what country you are in there will be positives and negatives, and Thailand is no exception.

Ok, good for you! Good talk. Thank you!

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I agree with the both sides.

I am also complaining from time to time about one of those idiot drivers. The important part here is the "from time to time". In you comment if sounded like you complain all the time about that. And I think that is not very helpful - including for your own well being.

I do complain all the time about Thai drivers and immigration, and make no apology for doing so, and I'm not interested in how helpful or unhelpful it is. Anyone who does not like my posts are welcome to move on, there is plenty to read here on Thaivisa.

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

Ok, good for you! Good talk. Thank you!

You are very welcome. ????

[phetphet]

On 1/14/2020 at 4:16 PM, Lacessit said:

There's plenty to moan about in Thailand; however IMO much of it is self-inflicted.

 

To me, Immigration is a matter of being organized properly with the required documents, then turning up at the right time, and realizing there are probably a couple of hundred people who want the same. Take a book with you, or music.

 

Traffic is a matter of defensive driving. Accept most Thai drivers are abject incompetents, and tailor the driving strategy accordingly.

 

Food is not rocket science. Avoid empty restaurants and go to the ones that are packed with Thais. They don't enjoy food poisoning any more than we do. Cook your own food if you need a break from Thai chilli.

 

Yes, many Thai women look on us as an ATM. So what? I don't care provided I get value in return.

 

For me, Thailand is much more exciting than my home country. I'd die of boredom there.

I would need to take more than a book to wait for my extension based on retirement to be processed. I took all documents last Monday and was told to come back next Monday to pick up my passport. Not all Immigration Offices are equal.

 

The rest I agree with you.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

36 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Anyone who does not like my posts are welcome to move on, there is plenty to read here on Thaivisa.

At least you didn't suggest anybody who does not like it should leave TV or TH. ????