Will this be the last generation ?

[Asquith Production]

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

If the government does not come up with some progressive and effective ways of dealing with the air quality, and traffic safety on the increasingly congested roads, not only will most ex-pats leave, but alot of Thais will join them. 

Only the rich Thais that is.

 

[alien365]

I am in my mid 30's and initially planned on retiring here but the rising cost of healthcare and new pricing structures will probably make me retire in the UK. I've only been to the hospital once since I've been here for a simple case of dengue but I dread to think what would happen if I could not get any affordable insurance, or even any at all. 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, alien365 said:

I am in my mid 30's and initially planned on retiring here but the rising cost of healthcare and new pricing structures will probably make me retire in the UK. I've only been to the hospital once since I've been here for a simple case of dengue but I dread to think what would happen if I could not get any affordable insurance, or even any at all. 

Government hospitals are very cheap.

My Thai government hospital bill is usually less than my NHS hospital car parking bill.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, geronimo said:

It seems that expats are drawn to Thailand, despite government attempts to make it as unattractive as they can. You only have to look at some of the alternatives to see why the land of smiles is high on the list of places to retire. I predict a strong future regarding tourism, especially if they milk the marijuana cash cow .....

Thailand is only on the 'top places to retire' list as the journalists that compule the lists are too lazy to do any research themselves, and just crib off each others blogs and stories that are years out of date.

 

As for the cannabis cash cow,

Thailand is last in the race yet again, as they are only talking about legalisation, while Cambodia and Vietnam have bypassed legalisation, and just have it openly on sale almost everywhere you go for $10/bag (ask any street hawker selling cigarettes or tat).

Edited January 24, 2020 by BritManToo

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, lazygourmet said:

People must be really insane to plan any decent retirement here.

+25 years of a bit of work and a lot of plays all around South East Asia.

A few more years to go and I am off to South of France.

Better take your yellow vest and prayer mat.

[SteveK]

Seems like with all the major and understandable gripes that ex-pats have in Thailand, air-quality is going to be the final nail in the coffin for many. Last few weeks I have been waking up coughing in the morning, and recently always get streaming eyes when driving my bike, just another thing which makes living here not as pleasant as it once was.

 

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My Thai government hospital bill is usually less than my NHS hospital car parking bill.

Hospital car parking charges in the UK are utterly scandalous. A tax on the ill.

[alien365]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Government hospitals are very cheap.

My Thai government hospital bill is usually less than my NHS hospital car parking bill.

You have a point on the parking! There are two government hospitals relatively close to me. One Is absolutely awful and completely overcrowded, the other is a lot better. I'm fit and active now so it doesn't affect me yet but I can't help worrying about something major happening. Will see how the next 30 years play out but God's own county is calling me at the moment.

[Grumpy John]

When I tell people I  live in a shyat village in the middle of nowhere in Northern Thailand I think they automatically assume I am unhappy.......which isn't quite right. Yes I do miss jumping on the scooter and going to one of the 200+ restaurants or take aways  within 10 minutes from our old house in Pattaya.  And I am not happy I  have to drive an hour to get to see a movie.  And yes the smoke is d@mned annoying.....but not today.  On the plus side I  am with a woman I love who treats me like a Prince.  Overall I am happy,  and not about to let a few things spoil my life. The cost of living is going up,  but more back in Australia.  I have to go through the same visa cr@pola year in and year out.......but I am getting used to it!  The exchange rate is really bad.....yep! So I don't bring money in.  The government hasn't backed up the pot enough for the kee to hit the fan......just yet!  Some of you may leave.  In that case I wish you well and a safe voyage to your new country.  "Good  Luck and Bon Voyage" 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Grumpy John
Smeling

[rwill]

It may be the last generation for retirees that could be barely afford to retire in Thailand and couldn't afford to retire in their own country.

[lazygourmet]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

Better take your yellow vest and prayer mat.

Not in Ramatuelle ????

[lazygourmet]

1 hour ago, No1 said:

Air quality? Only an issue during 3 months of the year when expats can conveniently visit their families back in their home countries. Traffic safety? Ride a car or fly a plane and chances that you will be involved in an ugly accident are very, very low. Congested roads? Only an issue for people who need to get to work.

Give me a break; the weather here is awesome, food is great, the nature is still worth exploring, people are friendly and the visa situation for retired people is so much better and easier than in Europe or the US for Asians.
 

Difficult to understand.... what do you mean with "+25 years of a bit of work"? And what do you want to say with "plays all around South East Asia"?

Go to the South of France, freeze your ass off in the winter, get annoyed by Maghrebis in the city centres, deal with expensive health care and people protesting against nearly everything. Needless to say, if you are not a EU-citizen, have fun trying to get a visa to stay there for longer than 3 months

I am a Belgian and my family has a summer house there for more than three generations.

[Suradit69]

17 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

If they have a decent pension or saved money, yes

Yes. As western retirement/pension ages are increased and liberal work related pensions become less generous and/or pensions generally are under funded, the whole middle income notion of retirement will change. But there Will undoubtedly still be a large pool of people with sufficient retirement income/savings  to retire in Thailand if they want to. 

 

The current generation is certainly not universally able to achieve a comfortable retirement and many of those on the brink of retirement have notably very little saved.

 

Quote

The 2018 Retirement Confidence Survey by the Employee Benefit Research Institute and the independent research firm, Greenwald and Associates, found that 45% of workers report that the total value of their household’s savings and investments is less than $25,000. This is not enough to cover one year's expenses. Based on information from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, adults 65 and older spend, on average, $48,885 a year.

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Suradit69

[maprao]

South of Spain is cheaper by far. Especially if you drink good red wine. Apartments are the same price as Pattaya.

Get your residencia sorted before the end of the year and you also have free healthcare....

Weather is great

People are nice.

Also for those of us that came to Thailand for food and temples the cost of 1 to 2 hours "lub you" is the same! (and it is everywhere).

 

Unfortunately for me I have to split my time because I spent so much money setting up a home and base in Thailand (in the sticks). With hindsight that would be better spent in  southern Europe. 

My conclusion is; although I will spend time in Thailand, the next generation will not. My son who is a dual national has expressed  specifically that he does not want to live in Thailand. 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by maprao

[topt]

16 minutes ago, maprao said:

South of Spain is cheaper by far.

Aren't there some tax issues in Spain which can make it more expensive or am I misinformed?

[CGW]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Are more folks thinking more seriously whether they can afford to retire in Thailand with a half decent life style?

In my 3 decades + working here I've met plenty of foreigners who came her as a tourist, believed they had discovered utopia and quickly sold everything and moved here with a bank balance which was nowhere near sufficient.

Good points, my observations also, you can be comfortable here if you prepare a decent retirement home, make sure you have water, a well insulated house, good AC, air purifiers for when needed, you meet visa requirements and have plenty of money in the bank for when you will need it!

Sitting around a stinking hot house with the windows open letting in more hot air drinking Leo and eating "cheap" (<deleted>) Thai food soon loses its appeal, results in people ending up on TVF winging about the "Thai's" ???? 

[emptypockets]

An alternative question may be:

Will Thailand want or need retirees to come and live here? Particularly those with little more than a state pension to offer the country.

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

The generals should be preparing an exit strategy. They are despised as never before. And for very good reasons. They are utterly useless to the people. 

Sadly, you are right. When they first took over, there was some sense of relief the squabbling red and yellow shirts were under control. However, their focus on enriching themselves and importing armaments which are really only useful for control of the civilian population has become increasingly evident.

Armed forces with 1000 generals. Really? The phrase too many chiefs and not enough Indians springs to mind.

[graexx]

I used to really enjoy coming to thailand in the 1990s and 2000s because the women and thai people in general seemed more innocent - they didn't have their heads buried in their smartphones, and the girls were less overweight. Also there were far less cars and motorbikes. I accept that I am somewhat biased because I was younger then and there is naturally more excitement for a younger man in an asian country.

These days I find Europe and various western countries more interesting - I see western countries as more ethical and the people more courteous generally. I think drugs has a bad effect in asia.

I also think the heat in asian countries makes life more difficult for everyone.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

If they have a decent pension or saved money, yes

And what will happen when then find out about the ridiculous immigration issues?

ie, being treated like criminals with this 90 day reporting nonsense.

[Hotrudester]

Never Ever will that happen. People will continue to come and reside here!!!! 

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, Kadilo said:

I don’t see why they won’t keep coming. 

It still holds far more appeal than retiring in the UK, granted you may need to come more prepared than previous years. 

Im already in preparation, can’t wait!

 

I have to admit that your second paragraph holds true, even allowing for the immigration issues.

[adammike]

4 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Brexit may make retiring to Southern Europe less attractive for UK citizens.  Florida and Dubai are expensive, Africa is generally unsafe, so if you want winter warmth the choices are limited.

 

And the elderly population is growing. 

Another thing to think about is retirement age, by the time those 30 something's can retire on a pension the only place they will go to is to the home for destitutes or the place you go to get the pill that sends of this mortal coil.

There's over 7 billion people on this planet and growing fast do you really think any country is going to accept anothers hoard of 70 year olds.

Unless you are wealthy or at least comfortable you better plan an exit strategy,set up your own personal Digitas.

[NoshowJones]

13 hours ago, mstevens said:

 

I think the financial requirements to retire in Thailand are going to push it out of reach for many. Factor in all of the other issues expats are grumbling about - some of which I don't think will EVER improve - and it's hard to argue against that statement.

 

I'd expect the number of Westerners retiring in Thailand to dwindle as the years roll by. Some will still choose Thailand but many will head elsewhere, or stay in their homeland.

 

The low cost of living was one of the main reasons many chose Thailand. The cost of living in Thailand is up markedly, especially if you want your Western comforts. Why choose a place where you may pay similar to home for a lifestyle fraught with hassles, problems and let-downs?

Good post, but your last sentence would say that you do not come from the UK. The expense and taxation involved in running a car, expensive annual TV license, expensive council tax, this tax and that tax.

[VBF]

4 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Luv to get some opinions from guys contemplating retirement, is there any guys here who are between say 45 and 60 still living in Farangland who have either changed their mind or still thinking of retiring to Thailand in the future?

 

I remember reading another forum, a “Adult” Pattaya based one around 12-15years ago where all the posters were desperate to retire to Thailand eg Pattaya, would love to know how many of those have since changed their mind ,Some were going to all lengths to get early retirement ,selling their houses to fund it , buying a bar etc etc just to live in the “paradise” as they called it.

 

of course lets fast forward  15 years and many of those guys probably would have changed their minds.

 

I havent read that particular Pattaya Adult based forum for years, couldn’t imagine they would have the following like they used to

So I'm 64 and from the age of 35 was considering retiring in Thailand. I made a promise to "me old Mum" that I wouldn't emigrate while she was alive so contented myself with various trips to Thailand. I was self-employed so didn't have to ask for holidays, just examine the finances and commitments. Mum died early 2012 - I spent late 2012 through to May 2013 in Thailand and travelled around Thailand and Cambodia. (Multi-Entry O visa was easy to get then!) I decided then that Thailand is a lovely place to visit but I don't want to live there.

Since then, I've retired in UK but the Thai financials and Visa requirements have, to me, told me that I made the right decision. I'll be arriving in Pattaya next week for 60 to 70 days, (SETV + extension) then in the summer, travel in Europe as and when. Possibly USA in Autumn - then rinse and repeat, as they say.

 

I am an active member of "that particular Pattaya Adult based forum" (I see what you did there) and it's still well-followed but it is what it is and serves a requirement.

Any help @georgegeorgia  ?

Edited January 24, 2020 by VBF

[NoshowJones]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Western governments are acutely aware their pension systems are not sustainable long-term. Retreating from high-cost countries to a lower cost base will be more difficult.

Having said that, I think some males in the younger generations have worked out getting into a relationship with a Western female is financial suicide, and are saving for the time they can find a less expensive option.

" and are saving for the time they can find a less expensive option." There are far better options in SE Asia without coming to be treated like a criminal in Thailand.

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

The 2018 Retirement Confidence Survey by the Employee Benefit Research Institute and the independent research firm, Greenwald and Associates, found that 45% of workers report that the total value of their household’s savings and investments is less than $25,000. This is not enough to cover one year's expenses. Based on information from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, adults 65 and older spend, on average, $48,885 a year.

Thank you for providing the above link which gave a lot of insight into interpreting the BLS statistics on older household spending. The $48,885 per year is not a per person average, but rather a per household average. For the 65-74 age group there are an avg of 1.9 people (consumer units) per household, which means that the average per person expenditure is $48,885/ 1.9 people = $25,728. It's also worth noting that the average household expenditures for household with a reference person over 75 drops to $36,673. With 1.6 people (consumer units) per household in the over 75 category, this works out to $22,920 per person for the over 75 group.

 

I saw these statistics a while back and was really shocked by the high average expenditure number, which I too was led to believe were average per person expenditures, but when you dig into the data, you realize these are per household numbers, not per person numbers. If treated as a per person avg, there is no way such a high number can be reconciled with all the reports about avg SS payment being $1400/month and how so few US seniors have little to no retirement savings. When you realize the BLS figures are avg per household expenditures rather than avg per person expenditures they make a lot more sense. Hope this helps.

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Gecko123

[DUNROAMIN]

Expats will slow down coming here, until the Barht drops to its real value.

[fvw53]

18 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

 

18 hours ago, Kadilo said:

I don’t see why they won’t keep coming. 

It still holds far more appeal than retiring in the UK, granted you may need to come more prepared than previous years. 

Im already in preparation, can’t wait!

 

QUOTE  It still holds far more appeal than retiring in the UK UNQUOTE  I heard that Thai widows of UK citizens are not entitled to a survival pension....is this correct...it does not concern me but it gave me a chilly feeling because on of my UK friends is now nearly 80 years old and married since more than 30 years to a Thai wife without own income.

 

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, SteveK said:

Seems like with all the major and understandable gripes that ex-pats have in Thailand, air-quality is going to be the final nail in the coffin for many. Last few weeks I have been waking up coughing in the morning, and recently always get streaming eyes when driving my bike, just another thing which makes living here not as pleasant as it once was.

 

Hospital car parking charges in the UK are utterly scandalous. A tax on the ill.

Your last sentence, you get a free bus pass when you reach sixty, and won't need to bother about car parking charges.

[NanLaew]

18 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

If they have a decent pension or saved money, yes

Regardless of them having a sound financial base, if they have scintilla of common sense, no.