My experience flying into Suvarnabhumi yesterday

[Just Weird]

On 1/29/2020 at 12:58 AM, Genmai said:

but I'm definitely not about to touch this gross machine that probably hasn't been cleaned since morning.

Did you demand that the taxi driver disinfected the taxi's door handles before you got in?  Or demand that the driver of the ARL cleaned the stanchions and straps for you.  How did you pay for your transport from the airport, did you use money that you had sanitised?

[Just Weird]

On 1/29/2020 at 2:00 AM, Genmai said:

Tell me, are you the type of guy who brings his own cutlery to a restaurant? Because let me tell you, there’s nothing worse than the arrogant, know it all, so called experienced eater, long time restaurant visitor or lurker who doesn’t PACK AND USE HIS OWN BLOODY CUTLERY. Or his own airbag/seatbelt when getting in a car.

He probably isn't but then he's not whinging and ranting hypocritically about it!

Edited January 30, 2020 by Just Weird

[URMySunshine]

This sure is one hungry norwegian under the bridge dweller.

[DrTuner]

Airports, hospitals, malls, buses, trains, cinemas, etc. Avoid like the plague, Thais will be milling around with zero protection, spreading the virus.

[puck2]

On 1/29/2020 at 2:38 PM, ThaiBunny said:

The OP sounds as if he's bought the whole pandemic hysteria story root-and-branch. This coronavirus has a death rate so far of less than 3% or one-third of the SARS virus - which most people who caught it survived. It is no more fatal than catching the 'flu, and the same people are most at risk - the very young, the very old and those whose immune system is compromised because they are diabetic or HIV+ etc.  As for the airport - how many unclean hands have handled his suitcase between him checking it in and him retrieving it? How many door handles - the taxi, his hotel room to name but two - will he be touching in the hour after he arrives? Get a grip

 

Panic because of the outbreake of a new virus.

 

It's understandable that people worry about that. The number of deaths and infections – especially in China - make many people feeling it could affect them tomorrow.

 

But inspite of the bad news there is no reason to panic. Just at now there is no real remedy against the virus. Common sense seems to be the best advice to fight the disease and the panic. I don't want to repeat them here, you read about this everywhere in the media, including TV.

 

Fact:

• There are more than 3 – 5 million serious influenza infections in the world, resulting in ~650.000 dead people …. yearly. And this is a virus, too.

 

The common people don't worry about this disease. Now it's part of the daily life – despite the big numbers of sick and dead people. That the people worry about this new (maybe) pandemic is normal and okay, but overreaction not. Do the people wear face masks because of the much more dangerous influenza? Not! What do they do against influenza in the same way the OP is missing against the new virus? Nothing!

 

My father told me once: Nearly all people die in the bed, but ....... they go there every day, again and again.

[Max69xl]

26 minutes ago, puck2 said:

 

Panic because of the outbreake of a new virus.

 

It's understandable that people worry about that. The number of deaths and infections – especially in China - make many people feeling it could affect them tomorrow.

 

But inspite of the bad news there is no reason to panic. Just at now there is no real remedy against the virus. Common sense seems to be the best advice to fight the disease and the panic. I don't want to repeat them here, you read about this everywhere in the media, including TV.

 

Fact:

• There are more than 3 – 5 million serious influenza infections in the world, resulting in ~650.000 dead people …. yearly. And this is a virus, too.

 

The common people don't worry about this disease. Now it's part of the daily life – despite the big numbers of sick and dead people. That the people worry about this new (maybe) pandemic is normal and okay, but overreaction not. Do the people wear face masks because of the much more dangerous influenza? Not! What do they do against influenza in the same way the OP is missing against the new virus? Nothing!

 

My father told me once: Nearly all people die in the bed, but ....... they go there every day, again and again.

"Panic because of the outbreake of a new virus."

"It's understandable that people worry about that."

Like you said,common people don't worry or panic. But it seems like 90% of the posters at TV do panic or worry a lot. They must be surrounded by coughing and sneezing Chinese tourists. 

[Letseng]

16 hours ago, Genmai said:

 

And I could equally reckon you're a Thai apologist who in his quest to distance himself from the self perceived guilt of a Western heritage takes great pleasure in making unsubstantiated character attacks at any other farang who take the slightest issue with any aspect of this country. You can reckon whatever you like mate, doesn't make a difference to me. It's probably much the same to you. What matters is the truth. Why don't you pop down to Swampy arrivals yourself and let us know your observations?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For all you know I could have walked through with a respirator and gloves covered head to toe in diesel with my own pen etc etc. You're obviously missing the point I'm making here. All of us could take all of the precautions necessary. But it wouldn't make a damn difference if the officials in charge of public spaces do everything they can to further facilitate the spread of the virus instead of putting 2 brain cells together. For every one of us who comes prepared there are thousands of Chinese and other travelers who don't. That's just the simple truth whether you like it or not. Further transmissions could be reduced if airport staff actually did what they claimed in the article.

 

@Letseng @ujayujay @galenjones @madmen @Nanaplaza666 @ThaiBunny @Matzzon @MaxiMaxi @WinnieTheKhwai @buick @thaibeachlovers @faraday @NanLaew @mike787 @bwpage3 @shy coconut

 

Let me ask you all just one thing. Do you have a wife/kids/SO/girlfriend here? Because I'd bet that if you do and they happened to catch this virus then you would all change your tune pretty quickly. You might wish that the officials and airport staff had actually done something to prevent the situation from escalating instead of lying to everyone like they always do. You might even wish that there would have been more people making a fuss about how nothing was done to prevent the spread and fewer people who told the "arrogant know-it-all Thai-bashing naysayers" to get a grip and leave if they didn't like it.

 

 

 

Actually the mark of an uneducated individual is attacking someone's character when one can't or won't address the content of their statement, which is something that seems to be happening quite a lot in this thread.

 

As we can clearly see it's not just Thais - many foreign expats here seem to be more than willing to adopt the same attitude you've described.

 

 

 

 Finally, yes exactly, someone gets it. The airport is a hospital. Thank you.

Do you expect the taxis or any public transport you use to get disinfected before you board?

Oh, don't ever use a supermarket trolley ever.

[Genmai]

A lot of deliberate misinterpretation going on here. I will clarify plainly once again that my issue is with the fact that in response to a virus outbreak the Thai media reported on behalf of airport staff that certain measures were to be taken to stop further transmissions. All I did was provide my account of how NONE of those measures were in effect and how staff were seemingly oblivious to what the actual measures were. 

 

At no point did I comment on the virulence/severity of the virus, on my own level of preparedness or even on the efficacy of the measures proposed.

 

To all of you who are continuing to slag me off for bringing this up - I want to point out that none of you have answered my previous question. Do you have a wife/children/SO/girlfriend/family here? Would you change your tune if they got sick with this thing, yes or no? 

 

Regarding suggestions made by some posters that I am being guided by fear, am a sad frightened individual and should hole myself up in a hotel (or walk around with a bottle on my head) let me also set the record straight here: I am one of the healthiest people I know and not particularly old either. As far as my own personal health and well-being goes I'm not in the least bit concerned for myself. So no, fear is not the guiding emotion here. The only fear I have is that many of you might have to eat your words at some point in the future.

 

6 hours ago, Letseng said:

Do you expect the taxis or any public transport you use to get disinfected before you board?

 

11 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Did you demand that the taxi driver disinfected the taxi's door handles before you got in?

 

No, for the simple reason that the media together with relevant agencies DID NOT do a sing and dance show to promise everyone that taxis specifically would be subject to enforcement of certain measures to stop the spread of the virus. If they DID come out with that statement in regards to taxis and they failed to carry through just as they have done now then YES I would point it out in the same manner. Is this so difficult to understand? Are you having trouble with reading comprehension or English just isn't a first language for you? If somebody says they'll do something and then they go on to do precisely nothing then that person is supposed to be held accountable, ESPECIALLY when it concerns public health and safety, no?

 

17 hours ago, mike787 said:

I cannot believe the I/O didn't blacklist you permanently and kick you out on the spot.

 

20 hours ago, mike787 said:

It's unforgivable to think people like the OP exist...it's a good excuse for a blacklist to be used on him.

 

Blacklisted on what basis? Because when people say they'll do something and then don't carry through I point it out? Boy aren't I glad you aren't in any particular position of power then.

 

Also @mike787 I noticed that in this thread (https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1145822-is-it-safe-to-travel-to-thailand-latest-advice-after-deadly-coronavirus-kills-132/) you had the following to say on the topic:

 

 

17 hours ago, mike787 said:

NO not safe anywhere.

 

So on the one hand you think this virus is dangerous enough to warrant serious concern and abstain from travelling ANYWHERE. Yet on the other hand you also think that people who insist that airport staff take basic necessary precautions to prevent further transmission are arrogant stinkers who should be blacklisted. Which is it then? Or are you just trolling for attention?

 

 

12 hours ago, URMySunshine said:

So Genmai joins TVF in 2015 and doesn't really post until now and you joined in 2011 and didn't really post until now. I think that tells its own story. Most of us have difficulty remembering a password from last week never mind 9 years ago !

 

And in another thread:

  

10 hours ago, URMySunshine said:

Probably around 10 million are infected with the fear virus though. I maybe suffering from mild symptoms.

 

Go ahead and report me to moderators if you think I'm using multiple accounts. But I think your own delusions are maybe the mild symptoms you referred to.

[Genmai]

11 hours ago, Just Weird said:

He probably isn't but then he's not whinging and ranting hypocritically about it!

Out of all the name calling and character attacks and "muh hand sanitizer" posts this is the only one I take issue with.

 

Airport officials assured everyone that they will enforce measures to reduce transmissions. What I saw was that they were doing the OPPOSITE - a whole bunch of things to FACILITATE more transmissions. I don't know what your definition of hypocrite is but in my view I'm the one pointing out their own hypocrisy. 

[mike787]

8 hours ago, Letseng said:

Do you expect the taxis or any public transport you use to get disinfected before you board?

Oh, don't ever use a supermarket trolley ever.

OP sounds like his expectations of this world are at an expecting level of a sterile vacuum standard.  I ask why travel, and travel into region of high risk.  The only place you might be safe is in outer space. 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by mike787

[ericthai]

On 1/28/2020 at 2:10 PM, Genmai said:

 

We were all told by the media and the PM that certain measures were being taken to ensure the control of this virus. What I’m doing is presenting my account of how all of that is false. You want to explain to me how I’m in the wrong for doing that?

 

And no, according to the article I linked the guys job is now not only to check if I can come into the country, it’s also to do his part in containing the infection by certain measures which clearly nobody is doing.

 

As for learning disinfectant in Thai - sure, I’ll do that if you willing teach it to the millions of potentially infected Chinese visitors coming here AND get them to ask for it.

This is Asia not the west were safety is the priority.

 

 

Back 2003/4 when the  bird flu / SARS was happening. I flew in from HCMC and as we got off the plane we were directed to rooms setup to take everyone's temperature. (I get kidney stones all the time and get UT infections so I run a fever.) Therefore, I end up being taken to another room, the girl I'm with tells the nurse I have a fever. So the nurse grabs a cold towel puts in on my forehead for a few minutes and presto my fever is gone and all is good. 

Typical Thai reaction ignore it and it will go away! They dont want to find anyone as that will look bad to the international community.  

[mike787]

57 minutes ago, ericthai said:

This is Asia not the west were safety is the priority.

 

 

Back 2003/4 when the  bird flu / SARS was happening. I flew in from HCMC and as we got off the plane we were directed to rooms setup to take everyone's temperature. (I get kidney stones all the time and get UT infections so I run a fever.) Therefore, I end up being taken to another room, the girl I'm with tells the nurse I have a fever. So the nurse grabs a cold towel puts in on my forehead for a few minutes and presto my fever is gone and all is good. 

Typical Thai reaction ignore it and it will go away! They dont want to find anyone as that will look bad to the international community.  

That's a great point...hopefully OP will heed all the postings perspective of international travel on this green earth and adjust his attitude to reality.  One must be proactive, not a pacifist...

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, ericthai said:

Typical Thai reaction ignore it and it will go away! They dont want to find anyone as that will look bad to the international community. 

No it wasn't. It was as standard assessment of a slightly feverish passenger due to something totally unrelated to the SARS carriers they were trying to detect. If they didn't ask you if you had any other illnesses or reason why you has an elevated temperature, I am pretty sure that when faced with the option of being needlessly detained, you couldn't stop yourself telling them about your kidney stones and UTI. But go ahead and omit that since it doesn't fit your Thai bashing narrative.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/29/2020 at 2:10 PM, BritManToo said:

Liquid not allowed on flight.

100 mls was allowed last time I flew

[tifino]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

100 mls was allowed last time I flew

but, isn't it, and all 100ml stuff;  all to 'remain' Sealed inside the clear through view-inspectable bag? (that would render an atomiser disinfectant bottle unuseable)

Edited January 31, 2020 by tifino

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, tifino said:

but, isn't it, and all 100ml stuff;  all to 'remain' Sealed inside the clear through view-inspectable bag? (that would render an atomiser disinfectant bottle unuseable)

I've never ever "sealed" my fluids in a bag. At most a zip lock bag.

Perhaps things have changed recently.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/29/2020 at 2:31 PM, sucit said:

I would say Thailand is doing quite well by you. If I was the IO you would be in an overnight holding cell, without any hand sanitizer. 

He's lucky he wasn't refused entry, which is entirely at the discretion of the IO.

[tifino]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He's lucky he wasn't refused entry, which is entirely at the discretion of the IO.

i'd read that as 'at the whim..."

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/29/2020 at 2:55 PM, Andrew Dwyer said:

Okay, so maybe the OP was a tad dramatic in his post but instead of slagging him off big time I prefer to learn from this.

 

Travel to Thailand should be avoided at this present time if possible, but if absolutely necessary take your own steps to protect yourself.

 

Wherever in the world you are coming from masks are available: take the time to purchase the best available and sufficient for yourself and family with regular changes.

 

Hand sanitizers are also available in pretty much every place, if you can find the sachets better still, if possible transfer to smaller bottles. Hand wipes are also a good option.

 

Attempt to have as little contact with crowds as possible, carry your own pen, avoid touching the toilet door etc ( the usual stuff just be more attentive ) clean the fingerprint scanner. Etc

 

Never assume others are going to care about your wellbeing, airport workers primary objective is to move legal travellers on as soon as possible they probably think the hand sanitiser has been given to them as they handle many passports and probably still do not use it !!

Till passengers are screened LEAVING, the infection might happen on the plane.

If one thinks using hand sanitiser on every publicly handled surface is going to save them, by all means do so, but one will need a very large bottle to do so. Taxi to hotel- clean the entire inside and insist on driver wearing a mask? Hotel check in- clean everything in close proximity? Restaurant- clean all the cutlery and insist the staff wear a mast when serving ( I have yet to see a mask that allows one to eat while wearing it )? 7 11? Shopping?

Bit hard to protect oneself against the world, isn't it?

Only real defence is the same thing that protects us from all the other viruses that surround us all the time- a good immune system.

[KC 71]

On 1/30/2020 at 12:29 PM, Happy Grumpy said:

The OP:

 

Doesn't bring his own disinfectant.

 

Doesn't learn the local word for it.

 

Complains.

 

Doesn't bring his own pen.

 

Complains. 

 

 

I'm guessing British.

 

Or perhaps just a complete and utter 2w@t.

Twxt

There’s many Nations that complain alot more than we do Fella ! 

[samuttodd]

Und also,
It attacks the central nervous system
[link to www.sciencedaily.com (secure)]
For the first time, researchers have found proof of a direct association between strain OC 43 of the human coronavirus (HCoV) and neurological disease in humans.

 

This breakthrough was made by British and Quebec researchers, including Professor Pierre Talbot of the INRS-Institut Armand-Frappier Centre, who was the first not only to demonstrate the virus's ability to invade the human central nervous system, but also to suggest the neuropathological effects of this virus responsible for approximately 20% of common colds and more severe respiratory conditions in certain vulnerable individuals.

The discovery was recently featured in the New England Journal of Medicine.

 

Perhaps this explains what the deal is with those videos of folks shaking and quaking?

 

The results obtained confirm Professor Talbot's hypothesis that the human respiratory coronavirus can cause certain neurological diseases of unknown origin, such as multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and encephalitis.

aber naturlich.

 

 

Here is some more new infor in case any of you drovers want to look it over.  

2020.01.30.926477v1.full.pdf

Edited January 31, 2020 by samuttodd

[Monomial]

On 1/30/2020 at 3:38 PM, Max69xl said:

"Panic because of the outbreake of a new virus."

"It's understandable that people worry about that."

Like you said,common people don't worry or panic. But it seems like 90% of the posters at TV do panic or worry a lot. They must be surrounded by coughing and sneezing Chinese tourists. 

 

I don't think being educated and understanding how this thing can get out of control represents "panic".  Typical influenza, has an R0 of only around 1.5 and a mortality rate of around 0.1% or less. The fact that 700,000 people die from it annually shows how easy it is for even a very mild virus to cause serious issues.

 

Now, let's look at coronavirus. With an R0 of around 3.8, (with some Chinese researchers saying the real, unreported value is as high as 5.5) and a mortality rate of around 3%, this is a serious threat if it is not stopped. Instead of 700,000 people dead in a year, it could be 70 million dead. And there is essentially no resistance to this virus in the general population.

 

The issue is not what coronavirus is doing today, it is what it could do very easily if we don't take this threat seriously. The relative ease by which we have contained things like SARS or MERS is causing complacency in the population. People think every notice of concern and emergency is someone panicking and saying "the sky is falling."

 

This is not panic. This is trying to get people to do what is necessary to stop something that could be a disaster. The black death killed only 20 - 30 million. The Spanish flu 50 million.  Look at that R0 above and the mortality rate, and then do some simple math.  This has the potential to eclipse those epidemics by an order of magnitude in a worst case.

 

Don't panic. Be logical. Demand the damned hand sanitizer. You need to be concerned about this.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Monomial

[ericthai]

12 hours ago, NanLaew said:

No it wasn't. It was as standard assessment of a slightly feverish passenger due to something totally unrelated to the SARS carriers they were trying to detect. If they didn't ask you if you had any other illnesses or reason why you has an elevated temperature, I am pretty sure that when faced with the option of being needlessly detained, you couldn't stop yourself telling them about your kidney stones and UTI. But go ahead and omit that since it doesn't fit your Thai bashing narrative.

I was never asked one question!! I was just asked to go with the lady  and we met a nurse. The nurse didn't talk to me at all just put a cold towel on my head and rechecked.  Once temperature was ok I was directed to immigration. Sure, I didn't want to end up in quarantine and I was ready to state I had a kidney stone, but again never asked! I'm not Thai bashing this is just how things are in Thailand. 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, ericthai said:

I was never asked one question!! I was just asked to go with the lady  and we met a nurse. The nurse didn't talk to me at all just put a cold towel on my head and rechecked.  Once temperature was ok I was directed to immigration. Sure, I didn't want to end up in quarantine and I was ready to state I had a kidney stone, but again never asked! I'm not Thai bashing this is just how things are in Thailand. 

Thanks for the clarification where you say the silent nurse put a cold towel on your head and rechecked before letting you go.

 

By doing that standard 'medical procedure' she reduced the surface temperature of the epidermis of the typically stressed-but-not-sick passenger and, upon rechecking, found that your skin had retained the cooling effect so you were OK. On the other hand, if you did have a virus-related fever, the effects of the cooling towel would be counteracted relatively quickly by the fever-induced, elevated deeper skin temperature. This would have been red-flagged on her rechecking and you would have been detained.

 

As they say, the devil is indeed in the details.

[DrTuner]

21 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Thanks for the clarification where you say the silent nurse put a cold towel on your head and rechecked before letting you go.

 

By doing that standard 'medical procedure' she reduced the surface temperature of the epidermis of the typically stressed-but-not-sick passenger and, upon rechecking, found that your skin had retained the cooling effect so you were OK. On the other hand, if you did have a virus-related fever, the effects of the cooling towel would be counteracted relatively quickly by the fever-induced, elevated deeper skin temperature. This would have been red-flagged on her rechecking and you would have been detained.

 

As they say, the devil is indeed in the details.

I remember something like that. When I wanted to skip school as a kid I'd put my forehead close to the table lamp to make it hot to pretend I was sick. I guess it works the other way too. Good for TAT, just keep an ice box handy next to the thermal camera and hey, welcome to Thailaaaaaan.

[adammike]

15 hours ago, tifino said:

but, isn't it, and all 100ml stuff;  all to 'remain' Sealed inside the clear through view-inspectable bag? (that would render an atomiser disinfectant bottle unuseable)

It's not sealed where did you get that idea from

I will take a 100ml hand sanitizer,100 ml mouthwash,100ml toothpaste,4-5 75mg protein bars.in a zipped clear bag

and use them on the flight.plus a pocket pack of hand wipes.

[rastlin]

Mask filter effectiveness=.3 microns.

 

Coronavirus size=.12 microns.

 

Masks are useless.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, rastlin said:

Mask filter effectiveness=.3 microns.

 

Coronavirus size=.12 microns.

 

Masks are useless.

Thank you.

 

Now, can you give us another scientifically sound, outwardly logical but otherwise equally useless and irrelevant argument for condom use based on the size of the average, wandering, solitary spermatozoon versus that of the everyday, itinerant AIDS virion?

 

While you are over their on that google machine of yours, have a quick self-enlightenment session on the meaning of the word preventative in the context of preventative measures.

[Monomial]

15 hours ago, rastlin said:

Mask filter effectiveness=.3 microns.

 

Coronavirus size=.12 microns.

 

Masks are useless.

 

It's not quite that simple. Most of the time the virus is attached to another molecule or bound in an aerosol like spray. Those larger molecules are indeed stopped by the filter, and the virus with it. However, you are correct that a mask can not be relied upon to completely stop the virus. Because a completely independent virus can still pass through, even though at any given time most are not in that state. If a mask is only 99% effective, but not 100%, I would not say it is "useless".  It is certainly not a guarantee, but it can still dramatically improve your chances.

 

[Letseng]

On 1/31/2020 at 5:28 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I've never ever "sealed" my fluids in a bag. At most a zip lock bag.

Perhaps things have changed recently.

No, nothing changed. I never put my hand sanitizer bottle (30 ml) in a sealed bag. And 100 ml is still max. allowed.