15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but these reports of what Nissan have said are unattributed second hand, Nissan has not formally made a statement on the matter.

"Nissan has drawn up a plan to pull out of mainland Europe if Brexit leads to tariffs on car exports — but to double down on the UK, where the Japanese company believes it could sell one in five cars. Two people involved in the discussions said the contingency plan, drawn up late last year, would see Nissan close its struggling Barcelona van facility and stop manufacturing in France."

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c4f0d1e2-4442-11ea-a43a-c4b328d9061c

18 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

Hubris comes before the fall lad and boy do you look particularly stupid losing to the silly & uneducated if that be true. 

 

Did you enjoy clipping words to suit ? Thank you dear boy, I just love being underestimated, makes your saltiness all the more enjoyable.... The EU rules are designed to constrain members and trade, unable to make deals alone, now thats no longer a barrier but it is for the EU..  plus we are a services based economy not trade. We shall see just how little the EU are bothered about the billions more we buy next to the % of trade we are increasingly going to diverse to other global markets and players. Tbh it was never about the money for the vast majority and never will be but make it a success we shall, I have zero doubts about that. 

 

This is the biggest change in Geo politics in Europe since the fall of the Berlin wall mark my words and the only country who can capitalise on this wonderful opportunity is the UK and there is no other option, so we shall, .. stay mad oh salty one.  

 

 

 

 

The UK has released the bird in its hand, there is no guarantee that the UK will catch a bird in the bush.

 

What Brexiteers have won is yet to be seen, they many promises to deliver on.

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The UK has released the bird in its hand, there is no guarantee that the UK will catch a bird in the bush.

I live by that saying.

50 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Grow up, vogie. You know as well as I do that the UK government is facing an Everest-type climb to enable us to compete with the three largest mainstream economies  - USA, China, EU - in making acceptable trade deals that would raise the standard of living in our Union - that's if Scotland and Ireland remain tied to little England. 

 

To single out Nissan is just reductionism at its worst  - no country seeking global self-sufficiency would depend on anything other than multiple trade deals with many countries and global businesses. That's one reason why we should avoid putting all our eggs into the USA basket.

 

My stance on this post-Brexit is to support johnson while he pushes UK's right to be independent, although to put my trust in politicians to get it right this time around is a step too far. Too much water under the bridge to be confident of success. We'll see the outcome in a decade from now, is my best guesstimate.

quote "To single out Nissan is just reductionism at its worst  - no country seeking global self-sufficiency would depend on anything other than multiple trade deals with many countries and global businesses."

 

Just in case you think that the Nissan story is made up here is a link for you. Nissan already seems to have a plan B.

 

https://www.cityam.com/nissan-plans-to-increase-uk-market-share-in-brexit-contingency-plan/

 

Nissan has drawn up a contingency plan to pull out of Europe if Brexit leads to tariffs on car exports, but will double down on the UK. 

The Financial Times reported that according to two people involved in the plan, drawn up last year, Nissan would close its Barcelona van facility and stop manufacturing in France.

 

I wonder how that will go down in France and Spain. Will the EU threaten Nissan with penalties?

31 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

Guess UK with no Champagne, Foie Gras, Cheeses, Pasta, French and EU wines, inclusive of EU made cars, worst with much less EU workers and much more African, Middle East and Asian workers, it would be great time to seat pop corn on hand and watch it !

You in a care home.....?   ????

"sovereignty trumps the economy."

 

It has to for Britain. In the past 30 years, the UK's manufacturing sector has shrunk by two-thirds.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/nov/16/why-britain-doesnt-make-things-manufacturing

 

Britain is one of the world's most indebted countries, per capita GDP. Huge trade deficit with the EU.

 

Eighty percent of its economy is now services, it hardly makes any goods worth trading with, but is a nation of servants desperately trying to sell its services.

 

Italy now produces more than the UK. So does India.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/456342/realtive-comparison-of-value-added-in-manufacturing-of-leading-countries/

 

Why would Boris care about what can't be helped, the eventual economic decline of Britain, when he can dance and fiddle on the Titanic of sovereign greatness with the ghosts of visions past?

 

You have to feel sorry for the UK. Watch how they desperately cling to the straw of an ailing car manufacturer like Nissan. Toyota have said nothing of the kind, have they? In fact BMW and Toyota have made clear that if the UK fails to secure a good deal with the EU they're out.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/03/05/bmw-toyota-sound-no-deal-brexit-alarm/

 

But that's the pathetic state Britain is in now. With two thirds of its manufacturing output irretrievably lost the British have to depend on stronger economies like Japan, German and the US building plants in the UK to feed the UK population. It's sad really. 

8 minutes ago, Logosone said:

"sovereignty trumps the economy."

 

It has to for Britain. In the past 30 years, the UK's manufacturing sector has shrunk by two-thirds.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/nov/16/why-britain-doesnt-make-things-manufacturing

 

Britain is one of the world's most indebted countries, per capita GDP. Huge trade deficit with the EU.

 

Eighty percent of its economy is now services, it hardly makes any goods worth trading with, but is a nation of servants desperately trying to sell its services.

 

Italy now produces more than the UK. So does India.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/456342/realtive-comparison-of-value-added-in-manufacturing-of-leading-countries/

 

Why would Boris care about what can't be helped, the eventual economic decline of Britain, when he can dance and fiddle on the Titanic of sovereign greatness with the ghosts of visions past?

 

You have to feel sorry for the UK. Watch how they desperately cling to the straw of an ailing car manufacturer like Nissan. Toyota have said nothing of the kind, have they? In fact BMW and Toyota have made clear that if the UK fails to secure a good deal with the EU they're out.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/03/05/bmw-toyota-sound-no-deal-brexit-alarm/

 

But that's the pathetic state Britain is in now. With two thirds of its manufacturing output irretrievably lost the British have to depend on stronger economies like Japan, German and the US building plants in the UK to feed the UK population. It's sad really. 

The decline of British manufacturing has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What Brexiteers have won is yet to be seen, they many promises to deliver on.

You will never understand by measuring things in terms of simply monetary gain. We have won the right to self determination and continued direct rule answerable fully and ONLY to the British people, for the vast majority of this GREAT, yes i said GREAT nation that is priceless.. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The decline of British manufacturing has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.

True, the EU did not cause the spectacular decline in British manufacturing. The EU in fact helped the UK in selling its services across borders.

 

However, the woeful state of British manufacturing and the UK economy as a whole had a lot to do with benefit claimants developing anti Polish sentiment and thus the British leaving the EU.

 

Indeed it appears that the economy does not come into Boris Johnson's considerations. If you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. ????

4 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Indeed it appears that the economy does not come into Boris Johnson's considerations. If you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. ????

Chomper usually condemns cheap remarks, but you found it funny and that's all that matters.

6 minutes ago, englishoak said:

You will never understand by measuring things in terms of simply monetary gain. We have won the right to self determination and continued direct rule answerable fully and ONLY to the British people, for the vast majority of this GREAT, yes i said GREAT nation that is priceless.. 

 

 

I was answering the counter factual points being made about the decline of British manufacturing.

 

Please accept my apologies if that evaded you.

6 minutes ago, Logosone said:

True, the EU did not cause the spectacular decline in British manufacturing. The EU in fact helped the UK in selling its services across borders.

 

However, the woeful state of British manufacturing and the UK economy as a whole had a lot to do with benefit claimants developing anti Polish sentiment and thus the British leaving the EU.

 

Indeed it appears that the economy does not come into Boris Johnson's considerations. If you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. ????

The economy, or at least the economic impacts on working people have never concerned the Tories.

 

It was Thatcher who declared the UK a post industrial nation, and directed national policy away from

manufacturing to the service industries.

 

 

23 minutes ago, englishoak said:

You will never understand by measuring things in terms of simply monetary gain. We have won the right to self determination and continued direct rule answerable fully and ONLY to the British people, for the vast majority of this GREAT, yes i said GREAT nation that is priceless.. 

 

 

Yes, you're such a great nation that you desperately hope and pray that Nissan, Toyota and BMW keep building plants in the UK to feed your countrymen, lol.

 

I call that dependence on stronger economies.

 

Let's suppose that sovereignty argument was true, it's a nonsense of course, since the UK had no real issues to govern itself and EU law encroachment was barely significant, what would you have gained? The sovereignty to be in the driving seat of nation whose economy is now 80 per cent services, a nation of servants. A nation that has a serious debt problem, and no longer pays its own way, that needs debt like crack? Do you think free access to the EU market would have helped you to sell UK services? Possibly yes, non? Lol.

 

You're not 'Great'. And you never were. Without the exclusive access to the countries you stole from and tyrannised for centuries you can't even compete! You just gave up! You don't make things anymore, even Italy and India produce more than the UK. All you are is Greatly INDEBTED.

 

And you will continue to be so for generations. You will have to go to the capital markets to finance the benefits you pay out to the elderly and unemployed. Did you know that Moody's downgraded the UK?

 

"Moody’s, which stripped the country of its AAA rating in 2013, well before the 2016 Brexit referendum, and downgraded it again in 2017, said on Friday it was affirming its Aa2 rating on Britain’s sovereign debt."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/08/moodys-downgrades-outlook-on-uks-rating-on-brexit-paralysis.html

 

Great, lol.

 

 

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

It popped up briefly during Sky's press review this morning but I wasn't paying attention re specifics.

HTH

Thank you, as it says in the text ‘two people involved in the discussion’.

 

Unattributed and not a Nissan statement 

Never like old Boris, but I love his tough stance and I hope he continues being tough. We have been pillaged and raped for 47 long, arduous years. 

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I was answering the counter factual points being made about the decline of British manufacturing.

 

Please accept my apologies if that evaded you.

What has Brexit got to do with Manufacturing ?  id say little to nothing. 

 

Please accept my apologies, your drivel confused me. 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, englishoak said:

What has Brexit got to do with Manufacturing ?  id say little to nothing. 

 

Quite a bit. When the UK lost two thirds of its manufacturing output that went hand in hand in more Brits becoming unemployed.

 

They lost those secure 'for life' jobs at big industrial powerhouses, as the UK lost those big industrial names one by one.

 

The population thus became disillusioned, many went on benefits, and of course when they saw the influx of Poles and Romanians they feared for their slice of the benefits pie.

10 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Yes, you're such a great nation that you desperately hope and pray that Nissan, Toyota and BMW keep building plants in the UK to feed your countrymen, lol.

 

I call that dependence on stronger economies.

 

Let's suppose that sovereignty argument was true, it's a nonsense of course, since the UK had no real issues to govern itself and EU law encroachment was barely significant, what would you have gained? The sovereignty to be in the driving seat of nation whose economy is now 80 per cent services, a nation of servants. A nation that has a serious debt problem, and no longer pays its own way, that needs debt like crack? Do you think free access to the EU market would have helped you to sell UK services? Possibly yes, non? Lol.

 

You're not 'Great'. And you never were. Without the exclusive access to the countries you stole from and tyrannised for centuries you can't even compete! You just gave up! You don't make things anymore, even Italy and India produce more than the UK. All you are is Greatly INDEBTED.

 

And you will continue to be so for generations. You will have to go to the capital markets to finance the benefits you pay out to the elderly and unemployed. Did you know that Moody's downgraded the UK?

 

"Moody’s, which stripped the country of its AAA rating in 2013, well before the 2016 Brexit referendum, and downgraded it again in 2017, said on Friday it was affirming its Aa2 rating on Britain’s sovereign debt."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/08/moodys-downgrades-outlook-on-uks-rating-on-brexit-paralysis.html

 

Great, lol.

 

 

 

Im fine with our global position thanks, I dont have your saltiness and have no need to argue greatness with you, I KNOW our history, what it has achieved is nothing short of world changing,  its a rich, GREAT and productive one, for both my nation AND the world.  never measure another by their bank account but rather by their achievements and what they do.  We have already changed the world once again simply by standing up and saying no more...you can blame the UK and Brexit for the populist movement that is sweeping the globe, probably Trumps win too.... when the British take a stand the world takes note son make no mistake.

 

I have no concerns for the future and am indeed proud of my GREAT nation...I laugh at your jealousy and whining pathetic posts that claim otherwise. Stay salty 

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

 

Quite a bit. When the UK lost two thirds of its manufacturing output that went hand in hand in more Brits becoming unemployed.

 

They lost those secure 'for life' jobs at big industrial powerhouses, as the UK lost those big industrial names one by one.

 

The population thus became disillusioned, many went on benefits, and of course when they saw the influx of Poles and Romanians they feared for their slice of the benefits pie.

In that way you may well have a point and by the same token being in the the EU made it much worse so.... We were right to leave.

7 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

Im fine with our global position thanks, I dont have your saltiness and have no need to argue greatness with you

 

Yet that is exactly what you then do, lol. 

 

8 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

I KNOW our history, what it has achieved is nothing short of world changing,  its a rich, GREAT and productive one, for both my nation AND the world.  never measure another by their bank account but rather by their achievements and what they do. 

 

Well, but you're not doing that at all, you are not measuring Britons today by their achievements, you are measuring Britain today by the supposed achievements of other, long departed Britons. Britons who, I may say, would turn in their graves if they could see what Britain today has become. Why don't you do what you say you do, measure Britons today by their achievements and what they do?

 

I think you'll find that Italy and India now 'outdo' Britain, produce more than Britain. I think you'll find that Britain has more debt per capita GDP than any other major nation. I think you'll find you are a nation of servants, 80 per cent of your economy is services. I think you'll find you're so 'great' that even your own constituents like the fine Scottish people no longer wish to be part of this UK. 

 

As for your history, you built a global strategy of theft on unashamed piracy, made a mess of Palestine, Kenya, Malaysia, Zimbabwe, and of course Northern Ireland. To this day India still has to overcome the centuries of theft and exploitation, its colonial past continues to overshadow its progress. Here is what a British historian had to say about your history, after your own prime minister at the time admitted that most of the world's political issues were created by Britain:

 

"Detention without trial, beatings, torture, and killings punctuated the twilight years of colonial rule. The disclosure this week of a large tranche of Foreign Office files, hitherto kept secret about full extent of British brutality against Mau Mau in Kenya, suggests there may be further revelations still to come."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12992540

 

Like every other nation your history is a mix of the criminal, fortuitious, shameful and glorious, though decidely skewed to the criminal in Britain's case. Your whole empire was founded on piracy and lying and stealing from the natives.

 

Call that 'Great' if it helps you sleep at night, I do not consider Britain great in any way whatsoever. Greatly deluded by visions of grandeur maybe.

 

That you are now reduced to claim credit for Le Pen's movement, as if that were a mark of greatness, I have to say, how low the British have sunk. The great shift to the right long pre-dated the Farages of this world, if anything Le Pen can claim credit for it.

 

31 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

when the British take a stand the world takes note son make no mistake.

 

 

Yes, it also takes note when a Norwegian goes on a shooting spree, why, you think Britain rules the world? Are you wearing a Rule Britannia suit now? Lol. 

 

32 minutes ago, englishoak said:

I have no concerns for the future and am indeed proud of my GREAT nation...

I bet you do, I bet at night when you wear your Union Jack pyjamas you are praying that Nissan, BMW and Toyota keep their car plants in the UK to ensure that the great nation of Britain can continue to feed its own people. 

 

How great to be dependent on Japanese, German and American manufacturers building plants in your great country to keep your great British employed.

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Varadkar told the BBC. "Let's not set such rigid red lines that makes it hard to come to an agreement and let's tone down the nationalistic rhetoric."

Perhaps he should of added, lets stop the childish, petty comments that bring nothing positive to the negotiations.

 

This is the same Varadkar isn't it, who six days ago said "I don't think the UK has yet come to terms with the fact it's now a small country."

5 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Send the EU citizens home first; then negotiate trade deals. No compromise with EU as long as the 5th column is inside the UK.

So should the EU send all the sick old UK retirees in the EU back to the UK (inc ME!) and overwhelm the NHS too?

 

Who else is the U.K. going to trade with ... the Commonwealth, the Chinese or Americans? The EU is the largest UK trading partner.  Also, can you expect the EU to extend generous trading terms to the U.K.?  That would be a signal to all EU members that leaving the EU brings more advantage than remaining. It is comforting and to hear politicians talking tough, it plays well in the press. I am not sure if it’s hubris or just to please voters but it’s u realistic.

7 minutes ago, chilli42 said:

Who else is the U.K. going to trade with ... the Commonwealth, the Chinese or Americans? The EU is the largest UK trading partner.  Also, can you expect the EU to extend generous trading terms to the U.K.?  That would be a signal to all EU members that leaving the EU brings more advantage than remaining. It is comforting and to hear politicians talking tough, it plays well in the press. I am not sure if it’s hubris or just to please voters but it’s u realistic.

Of course it is strictly for domestic consumption. Boris is trying to galvanize the Union Jack pyjamas.

 

I like Boris very much and he is an exceptionally intelligent man. If you seriously believe economic considerations are not foremost considerations in his mind, as the PM, you'll believe anything. He's just trying to stoke the nationalist fires. It worked so well in the past.

 

Then again, Boris is also a Little Englander at heart. It's his weakness.

 

Boris may truly believe that Britain can buy more from the US, less from the EU. Unfortunately for him Britain is not a directed economy a la China. The British will continue to clamour for Renaults, BMWs, Nutella, Alessi, and British ladies will continue to buy Zara clothes. 

 

The idea that Britain can reduce its deficit by buying from the US, Canada and Botswana is, frankly, pure fantasy. The demands of the British people will decide. And most British are not so stupid as to not want the best product. That is, in many cases, a European product.

 

Of course the EU technocrats are dying to punish the UK for what they went through and they can't be seen to reward the UK for leaving. However, this is balanced by the fact that national governments still want a part of the UK market.

 

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The decline of British manufacturing has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.

The EU has directly and indirectly contributed to the decline of British manufacturing. 

It was not the only factor, but nonetheless contributed in many aspects.

All this doomsday talk about Brexit infuriates me !  I wondered when it might occur to a car manufacturer that it would be crazy to take car manufacturing out of the UK, just to assuage the bully boys of the EU.  Do they not realise that UK car buyers, of which there are many millions, will buy cars manufactured in the UK,  using UK workers, and having NO punitive duties imposed, over those coming from the continent with such duties imposed just in order to punish the UK for having the temerity to leave their beloved union !  I for one, and I suspect many millions of us Brits will buy Nissan and Toyota, rather than Peugeot or Citroen, if they have such a price differential, just as I suspect that we will be buying Californian, Australian or South African wines rather than French or German wines !  I am one of the school that will henceforward refuse to buy anything from the EU if I can get it from elsewhere.   Bring on the trade deals with Japan, US, Australia, New Zealand et al  !!

6 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

you seem to be well informed

in which bars do you get all your int.?

could perhaps do with a stool  and so drinks there to become more infored

 

satire is wasted on the uninformed and uneducated - look elsewhere

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

 

Yet that is exactly what you then do, lol. 

 

 

Well, but you're not doing that at all, you are not measuring Britons today by their achievements, you are measuring Britain today by the supposed achievements of other, long departed Britons. Britons who, I may say, would turn in their graves if they could see what Britain today has become. Why don't you do what you say you do, measure Britons today by their achievements and what they do?

 

I think you'll find that Italy and India now 'outdo' Britain, produce more than Britain. I think you'll find that Britain has more debt per capita GDP than any other major nation. I think you'll find you are a nation of servants, 80 per cent of your economy is services. I think you'll find you're so 'great' that even your own constituents like the fine Scottish people no longer wish to be part of this UK. 

 

As for your history, you built a global strategy of theft on unashamed piracy, made a mess of Palestine, Kenya, Malaysia, Zimbabwe, and of course Northern Ireland. To this day India still has to overcome the centuries of theft and exploitation, its colonial past continues to overshadow its progress. Here is what a British historian had to say about your history, after your own prime minister at the time admitted that most of the world's political issues were created by Britain:

 

"Detention without trial, beatings, torture, and killings punctuated the twilight years of colonial rule. The disclosure this week of a large tranche of Foreign Office files, hitherto kept secret about full extent of British brutality against Mau Mau in Kenya, suggests there may be further revelations still to come."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12992540

 

Like every other nation your history is a mix of the criminal, fortuitious, shameful and glorious, though decidely skewed to the criminal in Britain's case. Your whole empire was founded on piracy and lying and stealing from the natives.

 

Call that 'Great' if it helps you sleep at night, I do not consider Britain great in any way whatsoever. Greatly deluded by visions of grandeur maybe.

 

That you are now reduced to claim credit for Le Pen's movement, as if that were a mark of greatness, I have to say, how low the British have sunk. The great shift to the right long pre-dated the Farages of this world, if anything Le Pen can claim credit for it.

 

 

Yes, it also takes note when a Norwegian goes on a shooting spree, why, you think Britain rules the world? Are you wearing a Rule Britannia suit now? Lol. 

 

I bet you do, I bet at night when you wear your Union Jack pyjamas you are praying that Nissan, BMW and Toyota keep their car plants in the UK to ensure that the great nation of Britain can continue to feed its own people. 

 

How great to be dependent on Japanese, German and American manufacturers building plants in your great country to keep your great British employed.

 

My my you ARE a salty one arnt you ? Blah blah Britain bad blah blah Britain Orange blah blah..Nigel bad blah blah,  that all you got ? a Pattaya ladyboy has better comebacks than that 

You have a real hard on for GREAT Britain dont you ?  You right, we were especially GREAT at piracy and kicking ass, proud of it too, thats the way the world was back then, you forgot being great at drug dealing too..  you must be either Scottish or French to envy our Greatness so much LOL...   You dont have to consider us great sonny, most of the world and history books already agree with me so you carry right on with your silly pathetic vitriol,  just makes you look like a butthurt loser, dont forget to take that plug out before bed now  

 

Talking of losing nice new account you got there, try not to misuse and abuse t like last time, ta ta salty 

31 minutes ago, AlbionBob said:

All this doomsday talk about Brexit infuriates me !  I wondered when it might occur to a car manufacturer that it would be crazy to take car manufacturing out of the UK, just to assuage the bully boys of the EU.  Do they not realise that UK car buyers, of which there are many millions, will buy cars manufactured in the UK,  using UK workers, and having NO punitive duties imposed, over those coming from the continent with such duties imposed just in order to punish the UK for having the temerity to leave their beloved union !  I for one, and I suspect many millions of us Brits will buy Nissan and Toyota, rather than Peugeot or Citroen, if they have such a price differential, just as I suspect that we will be buying Californian, Australian or South African wines rather than French or German wines !  I am one of the school that will henceforward refuse to buy anything from the EU if I can get it from elsewhere.   Bring on the trade deals with Japan, US, Australia, New Zealand et al  !!

 

Lol, the car manufacturers will not close car plants in the UK 'just to assuage the bully boys of the EU'. They will do so because for all the car buyers in the UK, there are far more in the EU. Bigger market, you see.

 

I would never buy Nissan or Toyota over Citroen or Peugot, they're great cars. Renault too. Wonderful cars. Nissan and Toyota are okay, but Citroen Peugot and Renault are better. Your loss.

 

Californian wine over French, lol. 

 

This whole idea that all Brits will start buying from Australia, Botswana and New Zealand is frankly ludicrous. 

 

Britain is not a directed economy like China. And many millions of Britons buy BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Volkswagen, Renault, Citroen, Peugot, they will continue to buy clothes from Zara, spread Nutella on their bread rather than Marmite. 

 

See it's an issue of quality, even the British know the best quality is usually a European product. And they will buy accordingly. Just like the Chinese. Just like the Americans. Just like the Japanese who are falling over themselves to copy French bread btw. And German cakes.

Let Boris party for another 2 weeks then start realizing that this is not a poker game

& he certainly does not have a full house.

The EU needs to trade with the the UK for the next 2 years, the UK will need the EU for the next 8

at least.