Uh-oh. USAA BAnk demands my physical address

[cmarshall]

So, I just got the email below from USAA Bank demanding my physical address.  The only address they have for me for the past ten years is my CMRA address, but now they claim that the Patriot Act requires them to have my physical address.  So this is bad news.  Although they don't say so, I assume they will close the account if I put in my Bangkok address.  I already have an account with State Department Federal Credit Union, but will start looking for another expat-friendly US bank.

 

Does anyone know the USAA policy on expat accounts?

 

Thank you for choosing USAA for your banking needs. We have identified that one or more of your accounts has an invalid physical address on file.

 What You Need to Know

Section 326 of the USA PATRIOT Act requires USAA Federal Savings Bank to obtain, verify and record personal data such as your name, address, date of birth, Social Security or Taxpayer Identification Number and other information that allows us to identify you.

You have been identified as requiring a valid physical, residential address. The physical address must not be a P.O. Box or other mail-receiving address (commonly referred to as Commercial Mail Receiving Agency), even if it appears as a street address. This is separate from your mailing address, which may be a P.O. Box or commercial address. Your physical address and mailing address do not need to be the same. Mail will continue to be delivered to your listed mailing address.

 What You Need to Do

To prevent your account(s) from closing, the requested information must be updated within 30 days of the date of this letter on usaa.com or your USAA mobile app, or by calling us at the number provided below.

 

[Langsuan Man]

USAA is not going to force you to close your account, you are a member, not just a customer

 

Give them your Thai address, (they did give you a number to call collect didn't they ?)  which will satisfy any "Patriot Act " concerns and as they say,  they will still use your CMRA address for mail

 

You could only have a problem if you opened the account while overseas as a civilian (without any USG connections)

Edited February 18, 2020 by Langsuan Man

[AAArdvark]

One of the reasons that I long ago quit USAA bank.  You would think that since they deal with many people overseas the address would not be an issue.  I would just go ahead and use your Thai address.  I had no issues using my Thai address with SDFCU.  I thought that most CMRAs gave physical addresses.  

[cmarshall]

10 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

One of the reasons that I long ago quit USAA bank.  You would think that since they deal with many people overseas the address would not be an issue.  I would just go ahead and use your Thai address.  I had no issues using my Thai address with SDFCU.  I thought that most CMRAs gave physical addresses.  

A CMRA is not a physical address, even if it looks like one to the casual observer.  SDFCU specifically, and as far as I know uniquely, welcomes expat accounts.  I can't find any information on USAA's policy on expats.

[cmarshall]

15 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

USAA is not going to force you to close your account, you are a member, not just a customer

 

Give them your Thai address, (they did give you a number to call collect didn't they ?)  which will satisfy any "Patriot Act " concerns and as they say,  they will still use your CMRA address for mail

 

You could only have a problem if you opened the account while overseas as a civilian (without any USG connections)

I opened the USAA account while still in the US.  I do not have any military affiliation, but at the time USAA would open an account for a member of an affiliate group which I did join.  Later they discontinued this policy, but informed me that they would not close my account for that reason.  Now however, they have two reasons to dump me.

 

I'll give them my Thailand address, because I have no choice, but I would like to hear other expats' experiences with USAA after registering a Thailand address.

[AAArdvark]

1 minute ago, cmarshall said:

A CMRA is not a physical address, even if it looks like one to the casual observer.  SDFCU specifically, and as far as I know uniquely, welcomes expat accounts.  I can't find any information on USAA's policy on expats.

I understand that but some of them appear to be with only discernible trait being a suite number.  I don't know for sure but there must be tens of thousands of government workers and ex military scattered around the world.

[cmarshall]

4 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

I understand that but some of them appear to be with only discernible trait being a suite number.  I don't know for sure but there must be tens of thousands of government workers and ex military scattered around the world.

The discernible trait is that all CMRAs are registered with the USPS and their addresses can easily be looked in a published list.

 

Their are 5 million US citizens living abroad, but that doesn't mean we have any right to open a US bank account.

[Langsuan Man]

20 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Their are 5 million US citizens living abroad, but that doesn't mean we have any right to open a US bank account.

"We" don't have any right to open an bank account in the US but there is no law saying that we cannot have a bank account in the US. 

 

And to be perfectly clear the ability to open a bank account from overseas is a bank's decision, has nothing to do with the US government so long as "Know your Customer " regulations a followed

[Langsuan Man]

33 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Now however, they have two reasons to dump me.

They are in business to make money, you don't make money by dumping customers. 

 

I think you are worried needlessly and the letter you received is a reasonable request.  The didn't specify a US address and specifically informed you that you can continue to use your current CMRA address for mail 

[cmarshall]

44 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

They are in business to make money, you don't make money by dumping customers. 

 

I think you are worried needlessly and the letter you received is a reasonable request.  The didn't specify a US address and specifically informed you that you can continue to use your current CMRA address for mail 

Banks have competing goals which include to make money, but also to avoid risks including regulatory risks.  If making money were the only consideration all US banks would be happy to open accounts for expats, which we know is not the case.

 

I think there is some chance they will close my account, although their pick list encouragingly includes Thailand among its many foreign countries.  So, maybe it will be ok.  I do worry, because I have more to lose than to gain from providing additional information to US entities.  

[greg67]

I changed my US address to Thai address with USAA about 14 years ago... Only once, during that time, they contacted me asking if my Thai address is still valid... Never had any issues.

[bkkgriz]

USAA have had my address in Japan for years. Doesn't seem to be a problem. Just give them your Thai address.

[lopburi3]

I opened my USAA account with only my Thai address years ago and no issues.  I did not order checks however as that seemed to require a US mailing address and had no need for them.  My accounts were opened as a civilian but when they came out with the no new account if not military did send them copy of my military discharge for the record.

[wimpy]

7 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

I understand that but some of them appear to be with only discernible trait being a suite number.  I don't know for sure but there must be tens of thousands of government workers and ex military scattered around the world.

There's a database of CMAs that banks use.

[nervona81732]

I don't see what the problem is. USAA bank has had my physical address for 7 years and get monthly mail from them. Should not be a problem.

[JimmyJ]

57 minutes ago, wimpy said:

There's a database of CMAs that banks use.

Anyone interested can go to a site like UPS or Fedex, input an address and it shows if it's business or residential.

 

Unfortunately your mail drop address  will show as a business.

Edited February 18, 2020 by JimmyJ

[JimmyJ]

These are the sort of incidents that I find scary, at least from the header.

 

It's great if USAA doesn't care.

Just in case reading this thread may give someone the wrong impression, there are plenty of U.S. banks that have closed accounts or worse when they believe a US citizen is living abroad.

It is the "or worse" that I find scary.

[DogNo1]

For USAA, I use my daughter's address in Washington.  She forwards all mail correspondence to me here.  There have been no problems.  I actually use Navy Fed most of the time.  They accept foreign addresses and charge no foreign transaction fees. I get a small rebate on each credit card purchase.

[Thomas J]

9 hours ago, cmarshall said:

So, I just got the email below from USAA Bank demanding my physical address

cmarshall

Do you have anyone such as children or siblings that you can use their address? 

[Sheryl]

I use my Thai address with USAA and always have. 

[BobinBKK]

I don't think any bank is going to contact you in this manner to ask for information. This is possibly a scam or phishing email. I suggest that you call the bank to check the legitimacy of the request.

[timkeen08]

 

OP, I used USAA for many years in the US for car insurance, other insurances, etc, as well as banking.  They have my Thai address, email, and Thai phone number.  I use USAA exclusively for my company direct deposit that can no longer be direct deposited through Bangkok Bank as an ACH direct deposit the same as before due to the January 2020 ACH shut off date.  So I use TransferWise for this monthly transfer coded FFT to Bangkok Bank from USAA.  My Social Security direct deposits still come through Bangkok Bank as FFT same day.  I get emails from USAA every month.  I have the email notifications button turned on in the USAA website personal settings.  I get emails telling me a new document is ready to view on the website, usually a monthly bank statement or change in safety and disclosure notices.  The question is, have you received emails before from USAA, if yes, is it in the same email format?  I have never gotten an email directly asking for personal information.  It's always a notification to view a document or message.  Call USAA at +1 800 531 8722.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

I actually use Navy Fed most of the time.  They accept foreign addresses and charge no foreign transaction fees.

 

I believe, Navy Fed DOES charge a foreign currency fee on all their DEBIT card transactions done abroad, but their CREDIT cards generally do NOT have FCFs... 

[Pib]

I got the same email today from USAA regarding my "physical" address...said the address was invalid.  The email beat around the bush saying how a CMRA/mail forwarding address or an address with a P.O. box address can not be used for a physical address; but OK-fine for a mailing address.

 

After getting the email notice, I logged onto my USAA ibanking, checked my profile, and noticed my CMRA address was no longer reflected as my "physical" address....it had been there before....my physical address was now blank.   But my profile still reflected my CMRA address as my "mailing" address.  I expect once USAA declared the physical address as invalid they just removed it and then sent out the email notice saying a physical address update is required.

 

I updated my physical address to my Thai address, and for now, left the CMRA address as the mailing address. My Thailand address was immediately accepted/reflected in my profile as my physical address.   

 

After doing the update I logged off and back on again to check out my ibanking capability to see if I could still do things like add an external transfer acct, wire transfer, doing an ACH transfer, open a CD, etc.,--and I could.  However, when checking to see if I could open a mutual fund I couldn't...the screen indicated I couldn't due to my address--probably their way of saying you can't open mutual funds with them if having a foreign address.  That's fine....I don't have or plan to have mutual funds with USAA.  I only did this mutual fund check since someone told me before when they had a foreign address onfile with USAA they couldn't open mutual funds with USAA due to the foreign address.  

 

Also noticed a month or so ago my GV number is no longer offered to receive USAA 2FA logon security codes.  But my US T-Mobile number is still offered along with via email or by using the mobile app to get the 2FA code.  Maybe USAA is also sniffing out GV/VOIP type numbers used for mobile numbers/to receive 2FA codes.  Don't know...just guessing.

 

But as someone already mentioned, it's easy for financial entities such as banks to get a list of CMRA addresses as a CMRA must apply and receive approval from the USPS to become a CMRA.  And in turn CMRA and other addresses are available from the USPS to businesses who want to use such data for identity/address verification.  

 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, BobinBKK said:

I don't think any bank is going to contact you in this manner to ask for information. This is possibly a scam or phishing email. I suggest that you call the bank to check the legitimacy of the request.

Anything is possible, but the email from USAA with all its glorious letter head, emblems/logo, and perfect English looked like other USAA e-correspondence receive via email....and I do have my acct setup for e-correspondence versus snail mail correspondence. 

 

There was no mention in the correspondence to click any link in the letter to logon/to fix the issue/etc.,; instead, it just told you the different ways to fix the problem by logging onto your ibanking/mbanking or call USAA to update the address.

 

Plus, when logging onto my USAA ibanking (not from any link in the email, but my normal way) and seeing my CMRA "physical" address had been removed from my profile (physical address area now blank/empty) but the CMRA "mailing" address was still there that told me physical address had been determined as invalid, the address was then removed, and then e-correspondence notice sent.  

[DogNo1]

Right about Navy Fed.  Only the credit card charges no foreign transaction fee.  I sometimes use the credit card for an over-the-counter cash advance at Bangkok Bank.  There's a dollar amount limit so I only get 20,000 baht at a time and then immediately transfer the amount from my checking account to the credit card because interest is charged on the advanced amount from day 1.

[Ken]

15 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I use my Thai address with USAA and always have. 

Yep, me too.

 

[Pib]

A few questions for you folks who say you been using your Thailand address with USAA:

 

1)  do you mean "both" as your mailing and physical address or just physical address....that is, you just have only one address on file USAA and that is your Thailand address?

 

2) if using your Thailand address for your physical "and" mailing address, what limitations have you experienced in using or applying for USAA products/services such as external transfers (ACH or Wire), getting debit/credit cards mailed to your Thailand address, CDs, mutual funds, etc.?   As I mentioned in an earlier post I noticed that with a foreign address you can not apply for USAA mutual funds (not that I want to) but I haven't noticed any other limitation in my limited testing after changing my physical address to Thailand.

 

3) and do any of you use your Thailand mobile number for USAA 2FA security codes for ibanking logon?  To the best of my knowledge to send 2FA codes USAA only supports "US numbers" for 2FA codes along with email and USAA app.

[lopburi3]

13 minutes ago, Pib said:

A few questions for you folks who say you been using your Thailand address with USAA:

 

1)  do you mean "both" as your mailing and physical address or just physical address....that is, you just have only one address on file USAA and that is your Thailand address?

 

2) if using your Thailand address for your physical "and" mailing address, what limitations have you experienced in using or applying for USAA products/services such as external transfers (ACH or Wire), getting debit/credit cards mailed to your Thailand address, CDs, mutual funds, etc.?   As I mentioned in an earlier post I noticed that with a foreign address you can not apply for USAA mutual funds (not that I want to) but I haven't noticed any other limitation in my limited testing after changing my physical address to Thailand.

 

3) and do any of you use your Thailand mobile number for USAA 2FA security codes for ibanking logon?  To the best of my knowledge to send 2FA codes USAA only supports "US numbers" for 2FA codes along with email and USAA app.

Only Thai address - no issues getting debit cards mailed here - never tried mutual funds but believe that is blocked - have no clue what 2FN is but only number they have is landline.  I log on with password and PIN.  On 21st they will require code that sent to email per recent email.  

[Pib]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

Only Thai address - no issues getting debit cards mailed here - never tried mutual funds but believe that is blocked - have no clue what 2FN is but only number they have is landline.  I log on with password and PIN.  On 21st they will require code that sent to email per recent email.  

Thanks.  Regarding the 2FA, I got the email from USAA around Aug/early Sep 2019 I got the USAA email saying I was being moved to 2FA on 19 Sep 2019....and on 19 Sep I was.   Up until that point I was using the PW and PIN logon method for many years.   They must be doing the 2FA transition for all customers not already using 2FA in a step-by-step, schedule timeline vs transitioning everyone at once.  I expect transitioning all USAA customers at once, which might number in the millions, to 2FA might overwhelm their system, customer support call center, etc.  

 

Now, let's go back a little more in time.....around Jan/Feb 2019 I noticed I could no longer add a new external ACH transfer acct....you know, where you can add an external bank acct to push/pull money from via ACH....like when pushing money to a person Bangkok Bank acct before the ACH IAT format requirement killed that off.   I called USAA numerous times over the next several months trying to figure out why I could no longer add a new external transfer acct.  I got reasons/guesses/excuses all over the map from different USAA reps to include their IT section reps for the next several months.  One time to add a new external acct I had to call them and they added it manually no problem since I could not via ibanking like I had done many times over the years.  Additionally, I couldn't initiated a "domestic" wire transfer like I could before...would have to call to do that just like a person needs to call to do an international wire.

 

But on 19 Sep 2019 when being transitioned to 2FA logon, the add external transfer acct and doing a domestic wire transfer was working again....could initiate online again like I had been doing for many years.  The method of logon was apparently the whole problem (i.e., not using 2FA login method) but at least a dozen different USAA reps I talked to over several months didn't know that.