TM28: Thai immigration scraps requirement for foreigners to report when they stay away from home for 24 hours

[Ratt Thai]

15 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Jackdd > We are in agreement that basically nothing changed.

But what is the procedure then now when you move/relocate to a different address and need to notify IO?

The TM-27 title reads < see below >, so to me that looks like the form to use.

 

Dear Jackdd and Peter Denis,

 

The only things that changed in the new regulations are as follows:
1: content from the immigration act section 37 is repealed
2: Content from the immigration act section 37 is replaced by:
https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

To comply with the new regulations there are only 2 documents to follow:
TM27 : Form for aliens to notify their change of adress if different from that stated on their arrival card.

Now that is the tricky part of the new regulation coz: Art 2,1 where as nobody is exempt states:

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Ratt Thai
clarification

[jackdd]

22 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

But what is the procedure then now when you move/relocate to a different address and need to notify IO?

The TM-27 title reads < see below >, so to me that looks like the form to use.

TM27 is a mess, which is probably the reason why they never used it in the last 40 years.

The law / police order regarding TM27 basically says: If you are unable to stay at the place which you previously told immigration (for example on the arrival card), you have to submit a TM27.

The important bit here is "unable", the original Thai law uses an equivalent wording.

Let's say you write the address of your wife's house on your arrival card:

- If you arrive at your wife's house and it burned down, you are obviously unable stay there, TM27 required.

- If you arrive at your wife's house and see that your mother in law is staying there, so you decide that you don't want to stay there (but you could), then the TM27 is not required.

 

Who knows what immigration will come up with, but i guess TM27 will continue to be ignored.

Edited February 22, 2020 by jackdd

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, DavisH said:

They should scrap TM30 because we already report out address every 90 days anyway. 

There is a difference, a 90 day report is you telling immigration your address, a TM30 is a property reporting a foreigner staying there.

 

If you are telling immigration you stay at Acme condos and seaview condo reports that you staying there, there is a discrepancy.

[Ratt Thai]

15 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Jackdd > We are in agreement that basically nothing changed.

But what is the procedure then now when you move/relocate to a different address and need to notify IO?

The TM-27 title reads < see below >, so to me that looks like the form to use.

 

Dear Jackdd and Peter Denis,

 

The only things that changed in the new regulations are as follows:
1: content from the immigration act section 37 is repealed
2: Content from the immigration act section 37 is replaced by:
https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

To comply with the new regulations there are only 2 documents to follow:
TM27 : Form for aliens to notify their change of adress if different from that stated on their arrival card.

Now that is the tricky part of the new regulation coz: Art 2,1 where as nobody is exempt for filing a TM27 for adress change and this within 24 hrs upon arrival + clearly stated to do so at immigration.

The TM47 is still are again there for the 90 day notification.

 

[docspinoff]

6 hours ago, lagarto said:

Be careful guys, (Chicken George) Immigration scrap the TM.28 not the TM.30...………….?

this is going to be an intersting forum . when the <deleted> hits the fan .as so many people think the TM30 has gone too DONT BE FOOLED ,,,,,, this forum will then be full of people saying why did i get a 2000b fine ,,,,lets wait for the flack >> 

[kevin612]

24 hours do not make sense, it has to be a week or more.

[Peter Denis]

22 minutes ago, jackdd said:

TM27 is a mess, which is probably the reason why they never used it in the last 40 years.

The law / police order regarding TM27 basically says: If you are unable to stay at the place which you previously told immigration (for example on the arrival card), you have to submit a TM27.

The important bit here is "unable", the original Thai law uses an equivalent wording.

Let's say you write the address of your wife's house on your arrival card:

- If you arrive at your wife's house and it burned down, you are obviously unable stay there, TM27 required.

- If you arrive at your wife's house and see that your mother in law is staying there, so you decide that you don't want to stay there (but you could), then the TM27 is not required.

 

Who knows what immigration will come up with, but i guess TM27 will continue to be ignored.

@jackdd and @Ratt Thai

I read and understand what you are posting.

But what is the procedure then now when you move/relocate to a different address and need to notify IO???

 

[docspinoff]

20 minutes ago, docspinoff said:

this is going to be an intersting forum . when the <deleted> hits the fan .as so many people think the TM30 has gone too DONT BE FOOLED ,,,,,, this forum will then be full of people saying why did i get a 2000b fine ,,,,lets wait for the flack >> 

would be good to here from people who have been fined ....for not changing the date ...via a tm30 or tm28 , or what ever . may be would convince people more. and not the people who keep saying im bigger then immigration and dont do it and seem to get away with it lucky them ... i nearly got caught out but had to creep to not paying afine ,, pattaya 

[Megascott]

It's good to see that Immigration Officials are coming to their senses. The gals in the IO have to be breathing a huge sigh of relief.

 

Thanks OP. Good relevant info.

 

Here's the link again, in case it's not intuitive to find from the Thai immi web page. https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

[Peter Denis]

6 minutes ago, Megascott said:

...

Thanks OP. Good relevant info.

 

Here's the link again, in case it's not intuitive to find from the Thai immi web page. https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

Good relevant info, when basically nothing has changed???

Except for mega-confusion on what all this is about in previous 250 posts...

[cyril sneer]

47 minutes ago, DavisH said:

They should scrap TM30 because we already report out address every 90 days anyway. 

where's the logic in that ????

[Airbagwill]

Many  rulings in Thailand appear to be dictums based on a relatively unresearched whim of a nabob. They are often virtually unworkable or inappropriate and undemocratic and have a negative impact upon certain sectors of the population. However as no debate is required to have them implemented, it frequently results in a long and complicated process of kreng jai and face-saving before the situation can be resolved.

In this case we are lucky there has been an announcement - the usual procedure is for these dictums to be nudged gradually undertake carpet until they fall into disuse.

[jackdd]

31 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

@jackdd and @Ratt Thai

I read and understand what you are posting.

But what is the procedure then now when you move/relocate to a different address and need to notify IO???

Why would you notify the IO? Your landlord submits a TM30, then they know that you are there.

I'm aware that some immigration offices asked people to submit a TM28 to them, but this was never an official requirement, just something the immigration office made up. If you didn't do it they also didn't fine you, just asked you to do it while you were there.

Maybe the offices that want such a paper will just continue to use the TM28, or maybe they use the TM27 form, or maybe they will write their own form for this purpose.

Edited February 22, 2020 by jackdd

[sapson]

This change of policy is potentially more concerning than the corona virus.........

 

A deadly outbreak of common sense amongst the Thai hierarchy! 

[Pla nin]

On 2/20/2020 at 10:27 AM, Yadon Toploy said:

You are entered on arrival at the airport or border crossing.

 

This is good 

Thailand is over 

[docspinoff]

36 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Why would you notify the IO? Your landlord submits a TM30, then they know that you are there.

I'm aware that some immigration offices asked people to submit a TM28 to them, but this was never an official requirement, just something the immigration office made up. If you didn't do it they also didn't fine you, just asked you to do it while you were there.

Maybe the offices who wants such a paper will just continue to use the TM28, or maybe they use the TM27 form, or maybe they will write their own form for this purpose.

is this fact ? or have you just got away with not paying a fine  ? if the landlord don't do it you will/could  get a fine . so do it yourself tm30 is still there .... but as it seems yes no reporting for us to do but if landlord dont do it and IO try to get you to.pay   will you argue ? either way it seems we still need a slip in the passport stating out address yes or no ?

Edited February 22, 2020 by docspinoff

[cleopatra2]

51 minutes ago, jackdd said:

TM27 is a mess, which is probably the reason why they never used it in the last 40 years.

The law / police order regarding TM27 basically says: If you are unable to stay at the place which you previously told immigration (for example on the arrival card), you have to submit a TM27.

The important bit here is "unable", the original Thai law uses an equivalent wording.

Let's say you write the address of your wife's house on your arrival card:

- If you arrive at your wife's house and it burned down, you are obviously unable stay there, TM27 required.

- If you arrive at your wife's house and see that your mother in law is staying there, so you decide that you don't want to stay there (but you could), then the TM27 is not required.

 

Who knows what immigration will come up with, but i guess TM27 will continue to be ignored.

I think you are placing to much emphasis on the word ' unable '.

Thai Immigration wants to know where any alien is staying whilst residing in the Kingdom.

How does one define the scope of Unable. 

 

A more reasonable interpretation of 2.1 is that if you change the place of residence then the person needs to inform immigration of their new residence.

[Peter Denis]

6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Why would you notify the IO? Your landlord submits a TM30, then they know that you are there.

I'm aware that some immigration offices asked people to submit a TM28 to them, but this was never an official requirement, just something the immigration office made up. If you didn't do it they also didn't fine you, just asked you to do it while you were there.

Maybe the offices who wants such a paper will just continue to use the TM28, or maybe they use the TM27 form, or maybe they will write their own form for this purpose.

Thanks and your response confirms that there is no clear procedure for notifying IO that you moved to a different address.

Since the place where you are staying, has to file a TM30 of you residing there, that should indeed be sufficient.  But of course that would be too logical and simple.

So - as you correctly remarked - your local IO might insist on you doing it by using a TM28, a TM27 or something they cooked up themselves.

[jackdd]

8 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

I think you are placing to much emphasis on the word ' unable '.

Thai Immigration wants to know where any alien is staying whilst residing in the Kingdom.

How does one define the scope of Unable. 

 

A more reasonable interpretation of 2.1 is that if you change the place of residence then the person needs to inform immigration of their new residence.

I agree that having "unable" in this sentence seems strange, and i don't know why they put this word in the sentence. In the original Thai law they could have just not written the word "unable" and it would still be a correct sentence (the foreigner would have to report every move to immigration), but they decided to put it there it, so we can't just ignore this word.

 

[garygooner]

TM28, TM30, 90 day reports, 1 year extensions, arriving at the airport. Repetition, repetition, repetition... Of course TM 28 is not required, thankfully. Please scrap the 90 day reports. 

[Kalasin Jo]

Recently told at the new (ISH) Kalasin IO when wife and went along to do TM 30 that this is only required when returning from outside Thailand. Moving around for stays/ holidays in Thailand does not require a TM 30 on returning home from such trips.

 

So wife will have to do again after I return from getting new visa in Savanakhet in a few weeks but has not had to do it after recent holiday trip to Phuket

[cleopatra2]

16 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I agree that having "unable" in this sentence seems strange, and i don't know why they put this word in the sentence. In the original Thai law they could have just not written the word "unable" and it would still be a correct sentence (the foreigner would have to report every move to immigration), but they decided to put it there it, so we can't just ignore this word.

 

I would suggest the more appropriate word is justifiable.

I interpret the clause different to yourself.

When an alien enters the Kingdom they inform immigration their residence via the TM6.

This clause states that the alien must stay at the address  unless unable to do so.

I read this as meaning if immigration come looking for an alien they expect to find them at their registered address. unless the alien as good  reason not to be at the registered address.

[TooBigToFit]

In Thailand everything is potentially illegal and will be used against you in a court of law. So, news like this just adds more confusion. I can't trust a word from Thai governments and this particular period in Thailand's history is a worst for truth.

[Mitkof Island]

What will the Thai haters do now ? I am sure they will find another excuse to continue bitching yet oddly won,t leave.

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, raccos21 said:

I think none of these forms really fit into today’s technology world and also, I have no idea what purpose it serves for.

The purpose was to keep track of communist insurgents from China, as well as the unchecked movement of the people in the aftermath of the Vietnam War and the fall of the Khmer Rouge. The army chief still believes there is a threat. 

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

Dear Jackdd and Peter Denis,

 

The only things that changed in the new regulations are as follows:
1: content from the immigration act section 37 is repealed
2: Content from the immigration act section 37 is replaced by:
https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

To comply with the new regulations there are only 2 documents to follow:
TM27 : Form for aliens to notify their change of adress if different from that stated on their arrival card.

Now that is the tricky part of the new regulation coz: Art 2,1 where as nobody is exempt states:

 

Section 37 of the immigration act is not repealed.

This is a regulation issued by the commisioner under powers granted in section 37 of Imm Act

[Peter Denis]

30 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Recently told at the new (ISH) Kalasin IO when wife and went along to do TM 30 that this is only required when returning from outside Thailand. Moving around for stays/ holidays in Thailand does not require a TM 30 on returning home from such trips.

 

So wife will have to do again after I return from getting new visa in Savanakhet in a few weeks but has not had to do it after recent holiday trip to Phuket

Useful to know that when residing in Kalasin, a TM30 filing is only required when returning from a trip abroad.

However, different IOs different rules. 

Some IOs require that a TM30 is filed after every return from both an international trip or a domestic trip out of the province.

And others (notably CW) don't require anymore that a TM30 is filed when returning from a domestic/international trip to your home-address as mentioned on the TM-6 departure/arrival card.

 

[Peter Denis]

< deleted >

Edited February 22, 2020 by Peter Denis
Response to post

[natway09]

Hopefully the TM30 will follow for overseas travel where your old TM6 & new TM6 show a return to the same address

[Peter Denis]

20 minutes ago, Jacobi Barnes said:

I don’t think this policy was ever strictly enforced. I travel all over Thailand constantly as I have 3 homes: 1 in Phuket, 1 in Bangkok, 1 in Chiang Mai. I never once reported anything to anyone. Never had any issues at 90 day check in. Just renewed my visa and zero issues there as well. Maybe I just got lucky??? Or maybe this issue got overhyped? I’m sure some were affected by it but I suspect the majority were like me and had no idea this rule even existed. Anyways, glad they’re getting rid of it as it would be completely ridiculous for someone like me that has 3 homes here and spends 1 week here, 1 week there etc.

You are indeed lucky that the IO of your place of residence, i.e. the place where you applied for your extension of stay, does not enforce TM30 compliance.

TM30 is 'over-hyped' in the sense that it is ONLY checked when you apply at your local IO for a service that needs your address (e.g. an extension of stay).  It is not checked nor needed when doing 90-day reports.  And - in case your IO enforces TM30 compliance - they will not be interested in your TM30 filing-history, but will ONLY be looking whether a current TM30 was filed from the place you are staying.