Can Sanders beat Trump? A growing number of Democratic voters say yes

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

If Bernie picks the right running mate he could win in my opinion.  Mayor Pete, Tulsi Gabbard, Kamala Harris, Corey Booker, would all be good VP's and next in line.  Heck if he could get Michelle Obama he could win in a landslide

It's academic. He won't be nominated. 

[Berkshire]

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Thumbs Up for a Trump - Sanders race! 

The dictatorial sociopath versus the democratic socialist.

In any other country there would be no shadow of a doubt who would win.

So if Bernie is not thwarted by establishment Democrats as the nominee AND if there is one ounce of sanity left in the USA, he will sweep the floor with the Orange Buffoon.

While I wish you were right, I'm just not sure.  That socialist label has such negative connotations for so many people....

 

[Then there's the label "socialism" -- the umbrella under which democratic socialism lives. It's really not popular: Gallup shows that more Americans say they would vote for a gay, Muslim or atheist president than a socialist. There's a reason why Team Trump rails against socialism and wants to run against Sanders.]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/can-bernie-sanders-beat-donald-trump-heres-the-reality/ar-BB10nYP5?ocid=wispr

 

But hey, we've all been wrong before.  I didn't think there was any way that Trump could win in 2016.  But the stars were aligned...with the help of the Russians.  It's all about South Carolina.

 

 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Thumbs Up for a Trump - Sanders race! 

The dictatorial sociopath versus the democratic socialist.

In any other country there would be no shadow of a doubt who would win.

So if Bernie is not thwarted by establishment Democrats as the nominee AND if there is one ounce of sanity left in the USA, he will sweep the floor with the Orange Buffoon.

Nice pipe dream. Now wake up and smell the coffee. If Bernie is nominated he'll be McGoverned and the democrats will lose the house as well. 

[Eric Loh]

Just thrill me to pieces to have a man of firm principles and a very likable man running against a immoral and unethical Trump. Sanders will appeal to most people on the streets angry with Wall Streets and the billionaires that Trump keep giving. 

[Sujo]

Sanders is the right man for the job of doing whats best for the country.

 

Unfortunately the US voters are not mature enough to do it.

[skorp13]

No way can Bernie beat Trump! He is having a tough time in places with nothing & no one candidates. Wait till he goes one on one with Trump, he's way out of his league. After Trump exposes him for being a life long commie supporting failed state after failed state and as the anti-semite that he is it will be all over real quick. All he has going for him are lazy leeches lining up for free stuff.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Trump and his supporters would love it to be Sanders.

 

It won’t be.

 

If it isn't Bernie that means the Bloomberg bought superdelegates will have interceded on behalf of a candidate that won fewer popular votes than Bernie. Not only would that sound the death knell of the Democrat party but it will supress voter turnout substantially and cause lower tier Democrats to lose.

[edogthong]

4 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Mayor Pete is their only hope...he offers a centrist option and appeals to younger voters...

Younger voters do NOT like him and minorities don't like him. Hell, the LGBTQ community don't even like him and he'd be the first gay president! He doesn't stand a chance in hell against Trump. Where do you get your information? 

[cmarshall]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Wondering how it will work for civilians working overseas not being able to have their own health Ins, or retired military on Tri-Care. Will be a mess if Bernie does pull it off.

While I like Bernie and I like his policies, Medicare for All is never going to happen.  Even a Democrat Congress would not pass it.  During the hearings for Obamacare, they did not even permit anyone to testify on the subject.  The healthcare industry is too powerful.  They control 18% to 20% of the second biggest economy in the world, so they are well-funded to oppose a radical overhaul.  Maybe the Dems could succeed in adding a public option at most.

 

Probably few of Bernie's other proposals, such as medical and student debt forgiveness, would pass either.

[Henryford]

A 79-87 year old Communist. Impossible America would vote for that. The DNC will opt for a Bloomberg/Clinton ticket at the end.

[cmarshall]

47 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Nice pipe dream. Now wake up and smell the coffee. If Bernie is nominated he'll be McGoverned and the democrats will lose the house as well. 

Or the Dems can pick one of the "moderates" and be Mondaled or Hillaried or Kerryed.

[Jonnapat]

4 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Interesting debates if he's the nom. Joe Biden is boring.

Exactly what is needed. A boring President 

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

If it isn't Bernie that means the Bloomberg bought superdelegates will have interceded on behalf of a candidate that won fewer popular votes than Bernie. Not only would that sound the death knell of the Democrat party but it will supress voter turnout substantially and cause lower tier Democrats to lose.

A dubious assertion since it disregards the obvious truth that Trump is a great motivator for getting out the vote of voters who are pro-Trump and anti-Trump. In addition it disregards the fact that Sanders support of a single payer system is not popular. Roughly half of Americans get their insurance via their employers. And most are reasonably satisfied. Lots of them aren't going to be happy about being forced into that program particularly since the rollout of Obamacare was so flawed. It's true that Medicare for all has no chance of passage since lots of Democrats recognize it for the electoral suicide it it. If Sanders changes his stance and gives voters the option of joining Medicare his chances will improve markedly. 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Henryford said:

A 79-87 year old Communist. Impossible America would vote for that. The DNC will opt for a Bloomberg/Clinton ticket at the end.

Communist? If he's a Communist then so are the governments of Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark. When Sanders starts talking about a total government takeover of the private sector, get back to us. Until then, your characterization is nonsense.

[Jonnapat]

Looking from outside it seems that Republicans will be doing all they can to assist Sanders' prospects of gaining the Democratic nomination. 

Absolutely disastrous, except for those people who want another 4 years of chaos. 

[STALINGRAD]

The problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money....

[Farangwithaplan]

Bloomberg is an image of what is bad in the white house now. US is not ready for Buttigieg to kiss his partner or other shows of affection.

Sanders is getting torn down by his own people yet he seems to be the person with the most considered positions on a number of important points. Whether or not people agree with those points is another thing. Sanders is also an ordinary communicator with poor body language. But that has not stopped people being elected president in the past.

Biden does not seem to offer anything in the way of well considered policy and will have a stigma from the smear campaign placed on him by the impeached president.

 

Will another candidate come out of the woodwork or is it already too late for someone to enter and resonate with the people and the party?

 

 

[howbri]

Crazy Bernie has ZERO chance of beating Trump. ZERO!!

[jingjai9]

Sanders is not really a socialist. He is more or less a Roosevelt Democrat wishing to use socialist flavored programs and policies to save captalism. Roosevelt told the corporate leaders of the 1930's - "share the wealth or risk real trouble" as the distribution of weath was concentrated among the rich in the 1920's. Therefore it is easy for Bernie to truly say he is not a radical. A radical would want to bring down all of the capitalist institutions. Bernie wants to redistribute the wealth held by the one tenth of one percent at the top.

 

America has always put forth an intellectually dishonest portrayal of socialism. The Soviet Union may have had socialist aspirations after the revolution, but what they ended up with is state capitalism. The US equated the government of the USSR with socialism and used that argument to put a lid on socialist ideas. In the US,the rap I heard as a youngster was, "well if you like them socialist ideas, why  then do you go to Russia?" Even US textbooks portrayed Marx at best as a Utopian thinker or unkindly as a failed philosopher. 

 

Bernie Sanders is one of the first mainstream politicians in a long time to make a distinction between his "democratic socialism" and the socialism of Russia, Cuba and the Soviet bloc of the cold war era. Joe Biden and Trump still use the cold war argument against socialism. 

 

Bernie's enemies are the donor class that supports Biden, Trump, Pelosi and Schumer and perhaps Mayor Pete as well. It is this donor class that has a great stake in maintaining the status quo. They love to use the argument that someone too far to the left at the top of the democratic ticket would assure a Trump victory. The corporate media seem to endorse this idea.

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, howbri said:

Crazy Bernie has ZERO chance of beating Trump. ZERO!!

 

He has a better chance of beating the other dems however. That is what is making the dems squirm. They really don't have a better solution. Bernie takes punches better for being a commie than Bloomberg does for being a NYC elite, billionaire that reeks of arrogance like Bloomberg.

 

Bloomberg doesn't come off strong and has his gaffs like Biden. He admitted he bought the house elections. His voice doesn't help. He sounds like Curly from the Three Stooges at times. 

 

I think Warren might be angling for Bernie and a VP nod. She really lays into Bloomberg. I don't think any candidate is sure enough of Bloomberg to drop out because he is a shoe in. The more you get to know hi the better Bernie looks. 

[Orton Rd]

Colonel Sanders would have more chance than comrade Bernie

[wwest5829]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Wondering how it will work for civilians working overseas not being able to have their own health Ins, or retired military on Tri-Care. Will be a mess if Bernie does pull it off.

Agree that there would be a bit of turmoil in the American healthcare field with disruption in the current pharmaceutical costs, private insurance, for profit medical care. Study, thought needed for transforming for sure. But a critically needed change. As to earned medical retirement = Tricare, I think no change or perhaps any consistent change affecting current Medicare retiree coverage (hmm, wouldn't it be great if I could access Medicare coverage on the same basis as Tricare here in Thailand!). As in developed countries having national healthcare, international medical insurance policies would continue to be available (do I know for fact? No. But it is a bit of a reach to think that a US conforming to national healthcare would be any different than the other developed countries).

[IAMHERE]

I like to her this. Mark my words;  Hilary in 2020

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

That's the whole point. Bernie wants to do away with "all" private Insurance. I have Blue Cross/BS and was able to keep it after I retired a few months back. Bernie is taking it to a whole new level.

I am betting that what would pass in Congress, if the citizen vote overwhelmingly supports, is a "safety net" Medicare for All coverage. Additional insurance will continue, same as in countries already having national healthcare.

[Eric Loh]

16 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

Sanders is not really a socialist. He is more or less a Roosevelt Democrat wishing to use socialist flavored programs and policies to save captalism. Roosevelt told the corporate leaders of the 1930's - "share the wealth or risk real trouble" as the distribution of weath was concentrated among the rich in the 1920's. Therefore it is easy for Bernie to truly say he is not a radical. A radical would want to bring down all of the capitalist institutions. Bernie wants to redistribute the wealth held by the one tenth of one percent at the top.

Bernie is calling for a 21st Century Economic Bill of Rights referencing Roosevelt’s second Bill of Rights that focused on economic security. Sanders called that an important speech by a President. His platform is for every person in US to have a decent job and a living wage, quality healthcare, complete education, affordable housing and clean environment and secure retirement. That has appeal to just about every citizens but frightened Wall Street and their billionaires. Maybe a winning formula against Trump. 

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Wondering how it will work for civilians working overseas not being able to have their own health Ins, or retired military on Tri-Care. Will be a mess if Bernie does pull it off.

Would it not be true that revised policies would be put in place to ensure these folks are taken care off?

[Jingthing]

47 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Looking from outside it seems that Republicans will be doing all they can to assist Sanders' prospects of gaining the Democratic nomination. 

Absolutely disastrous, except for those people who want another 4 years of chaos. 

Yes, exactly. 

The republicans and Putin. 

[Berkshire]

22 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

Sanders is not really a socialist. He is more or less a Roosevelt Democrat wishing to use socialist flavored programs and policies to save captalism. Roosevelt told the corporate leaders of the 1930's - "share the wealth or risk real trouble" as the distribution of weath was concentrated among the rich in the 1920's. Therefore it is easy for Bernie to truly say he is not a radical. A radical would want to bring down all of the capitalist institutions. Bernie wants to redistribute the wealth held by the one tenth of one percent at the top.

 

America has always put forth an intellectually dishonest portrayal of socialism. The Soviet Union may have had socialist aspirations after the revolution, but what they ended up with is state capitalism. The US equated the government of the USSR with socialism and used that argument to put a lid on socialist ideas. In the US,the rap I heard as a youngster was, "well if you like them socialist ideas, why  then do you go to Russia?" Even US textbooks portrayed Marx at best as a Utopian thinker or unkindly as a failed philosopher. 

 

Bernie Sanders is one of the first mainstream politicians in a long time to make a distinction between his "democratic socialism" and the socialism of Russia, Cuba and the Soviet bloc of the cold war era. Joe Biden and Trump still use the cold war argument against socialism. 

 

Bernie's enemies are the donor class that supports Biden, Trump, Pelosi and Schumer and perhaps Mayor Pete as well. It is this donor class that has a great stake in maintaining the status quo. They love to use the argument that someone too far to the left at the top of the democratic ticket would assure a Trump victory. The corporate media seem to endorse this idea.

I agree with most of what you say and have said something similar previously.  Bernie is not really a socialist in the true sense of the word.  But you have to remember that most Americans are low-information.  Bernie can call himself a "freedom loving, God-fearing, gun-owning socialist" and the only thing people will remember is that he's a socialist.  And if there's one thing most Americans can agree on is that they don't want America to be a socialist country.  Again, Bernie is not advocating that.  But Trump and the right wing machine will beat that into everybody's head. 

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Would it not be true that revised policies would be put in place to ensure these folks are taken care off?

This is all kind of silly at this point.

Sanders may indeed get nominated.

Much much much less likely, he may beat 45.

But chances of actually passing "Medicare for All" through congress -- ZERO percent. 

That's why this is all so stupid.

Taking the biggest possible risk in choosing a self labelled "socialist" nominee to run against an actual American anti-rule of law, authoritarian white nationalist president for a fantasy policy that will absolutely never happen. 

Much better to pick a candidate that has wide appeal to independents and push for realistic changes such as a public option. People -- the USA is a center right nation. Don't be fooled by the minority of the most left wing activists from only the democratic party. I don't feel foreigners realize the proportions, democrats are mostly NOT far left, republicans are mostly far right, and independents (which have HUGE numbers) are center right. Bernie can't realistically win in a  nation with that kind of demographic. The USA is not western Europe. That's just the reality.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Jingthing

[gargamon]

Put all this speculation on hold for another week until super Tuesday is completed. There's clearly not enough info at the moment to have an intelligent conversation. Clearly only mental masturbation is all that is going on now.