Royal Thai Air Force To Procure New Weapons And Armanents

[cdnvic]

This discussion is like arguing with an 8 year old.

Forget it. Sorry for taking it off topic.

I'm going to bed

Edited April 10, 2007 by cdnvic

[nick2k]

Fact is you blurted out something without checking your facts and got caught. This happens in a public forum, you often run into some people who actually know what they're talking about and by continuing to defend a flawed argument you just wind up looking silly.

People can read what you said before, don't go trying to revise it now.

Lick your wounds and come back another day

boy. you guys are really sensitive. reminds me of when I was a kid and we all argued about whose dad was better.

as for licking wounds, you make me laugh. over what? a few words on a forum that doesn't really mean anything?

Here is a tip: Stop posting.

oh. I get it now. I interrupted you guys while you were bashing president bush. (like that is not off topic.) maybe I should join you in the bush bashing. get back - ON TOPIC. that would make you guys feel better - right? hehehe. 5555555.

[nick2k]

I did some research on the migs. according to many american sources, they are problematic, and require a lot of maintenance. you would do well to buy "western" as in french, british, or american.

[nick2k]

germany has a good plane too.

[Johpa]

Get those Navy Harriers working again! Put the carrier to sea! Prepare to invade Singapore and reclaim the stolen satellites!

The glorious Thai military machine will be financed not only with frozen chickens, but also with fish heads, empty crisp packets and bottletops.

Ah, less you forget that with the recent arrival of the odorless durian, Thailand shall have a surplus of odiferous durians. Placing into context the technical ability of the Thai military, I would suggest to the admirals thay they place a line of trebuchets upon the deck of the mighty HMS Chakrabongse, sail up into Singapore harbor, and then launch a relentless broadside of the most odiferous of the odiferous into the heart of the city-state until the satellites are dutifully returned. All the while the mighty RTAF will be patroling the borders in the air to protect the nation from the equally mighty neighboring air powres of Cambodia, Laos, and especially Burma, where even rebels are known to have knocked down two Thai aircraft back in the 1980s.

Yes, what Thailand needs over jungles is jet aircraft. Heinie Aderholt, you don't know squat.

[kayo]

Hi all,

sorry if my history isn't that good but what line of duty has Thailand lost its airmen heros? I now about internal pproblems but thats it. Plus i've never understood Victory monument? Please someone inlighten me.

Many thanks.

Chris.

One famous RTAF incident was Battle of Koh Chang.. (well, I think it was famous, cos I lived there)

BTW @nick2k, following a (very quick) scan back, Bush was mentioned once in this thread, and it wasn't bashing him...

[nick2k]

Hi all,

sorry if my history isn't that good but what line of duty has Thailand lost its airmen heros? I now about internal pproblems but thats it. Plus i've never understood Victory monument? Please someone inlighten me.

Many thanks.

Chris.

One famous RTAF incident was Battle of Koh Chang.. (well, I think it was famous, cos I lived there)

BTW @nick2k, following a (very quick) scan back, Bush was mentioned once in this thread, and it wasn't bashing him...

jesus. talk about being sensitive. that remark about bush was suppose to be a joke. personally, here I am. all I did was make a 2 sentence reply hoping to get into the discussion, and the next thing I know, I get bombarded by this and that. basically, as I see it, the insults in my direction were uncalled for. really don't know what the problem of those other guys are. must have woke up on the wrong side of bed. maybe a little neurotic too. guy can't voice their opinion without somebody jumping on them, it seems. do you have to be an expert to say something? what happened to free speech? hey, but no worries. I'll been told I have a thick skin. carry on.

oh. I still believe the F22 will kick the shit out of any airplane including the russian one. what was it called? skumk30? the plane wouldn't be able to lock onto the F22 before it was too late. big deal. so it is fast. can't hit what you can't see.

[TAWP]

*offtopic* Could we please add an IQ-test upon signup? This should remove the most unwanted problem-posters.

And nick2k, get back to us as soon as any american plane of later model has entered into combat with any other modern aircraft of later model. Preferably generation 4 and up. Until then, stop your dickwaving about the F-22.

Besides, the F-22 has nothing with the topic at hand. It's not being sold and it's not being bought.

Edited April 10, 2007 by TAWP

[Pattaya_Fox]

Please stop Bickering and get back on topic otherwise this thread will be closed.

Thanks.

[Khun ?]

Much of the purchase will be given to them as foreign aid most likely if from the west.

It will cost them on a longer term with maintenance program and what not for logistics and

training personnel for a period of time. Anyways the value to what they actually pay will be

far different.

[john128]

Hate to get into heated discussions...escpecially when I'm not there at the start...but then, when it comes to fighter aircraft...I just have to say something!

Don't matter what you fly, as long as you fly better than the guy you gonna get! E.g. Korea war; the NK had a better plane but not better pilots so they blew out. Many more examples but that one is the most famous. You can train a pilot in a heap of crap and still get better results than not training him in the best...Actually they will probably kill themselves if the fighter is better than they are!

Don't matter what plane or how clever it is...the pilot has got to be well trained to do anything useful at all. I know of a Hawk trainer p[iloted by a expert taking out two F16's. I know of an EFA taking out two F15's. I never heard of an F22 taking out 100+ aircraft except in someones dreams!

As for the Thais...why bother? They have enough treaties with other countries that they do not need any more than a conventional aircraft for practice...in fact the least electronics the better the pilot... when he gets all the extras! Give the extra money to those who need it and keep the 'flying club' RTAF limited to the few who can give to the many.

[TAWP]

john128>> Very well written, and I agree. This current increase(?) in budget for the military, when the military is in power, is of no use to the country in the long term and not what their goal should be with their...time-limited rule. People are starving and need food, not more missils for some of the flyboys.

[Rhys]

Did the RTnavy Admirals.. ever get their subs...

[Bagwan]

There was a report in the Bangkok Post two or three years ago that as part of a deal to purchase some advanced US military aircraft 4 pilots were sent to the States for two years education, familiarisation and training. The plan was that these four would then teach the other Thai pilots. After one year the Thai pilots were tested and it was discovered that they had learned practically zip. They were sent home. The problem, as reported, was that the Thais did not understand their instructors and had sat there for a year nodding their heads.

Why does Thailand need these jets? Indeed any aircraft. Who is going to invade? Why does the Navy need submarines? They cannot operate in the Gulf of Thailand or the Malacca Strait. Why tanks? They can be used in the jungle or paddies? Given the heroic performance of the Thai Armed Forces in defence of Thailand in 1941 (which I understand lasted a couple of hours) why bother at all? Just asking hoping for illumination.

[sriracha john]

Please stop Bickering and get back on topic otherwise this thread will be closed.

Thanks.

Must of just kept missing your posts lately and I was all set to congratulate you on your moderator upgrade and acknowledge this as your first posted warning here on TV, but after I did a review, it shows this is actually your fifth one given out... hahahaha.... funny stuff that... just luv it.

Anyway... congratulations... your selection is an exceptionally keen one...

Keep up the great work.

[john128]

nick2k>> I am going to kick myself tomorrow for taking the bait and replying to your postings. In particular your remarrks on Russian vs US/European planes and in particular that the Germans have a good plane too. Which one exactly?? Or are you referring to a four country project that Germany has the second largest shareholding of?

The aircraft itself is not the major factor...it is simply a weapons platform...and the Russians have some of the best software and best weapons. Do not kid yourself that everything American is the best! I only agree that their marketing is better!

Getting back to the topic...before the admin have a go at me too...see my earlier posting!

ps DO NOT believe everything you read in the US press releases

[Rinrada]

This is the one and BAE has just flogged about 70 of them to the Saudis.

I am sure if you ask politely they will throw in a couple of dancing girls or at least a few bottles of Chang to sweeten any deal......eh

Wot are you suggesting...we dont do that sort of thing...what??

[JimGant]

sorry if my history isn't that good but what line of duty has Thailand lost its airmen heros? ... when was the last time the RTAF was used?

A couple in Laos. Thai pilots were part of the Raven operation, to mention one. They were fully integrated, having round eyed ground crews, which respected them highly. All that survived have now retired from the RTAF, having reached age 60, and many achieved flag rank. Also, many received advanced fighter training in Arizona and Texas -- with NO language barrier problems.

In 1974 a Laotian puddle jumper strayed across the border. Thai air defense alert birds (yeah, ok, T-28s) intercepted -- and straddled -- him. He banked sharply away from the one he saw, and pranged into number two. But, heck, a Kill's a Kill. Number two recovered ok.

RTAF was the only Thai military to participate in WWI. They flew with the French (whether the Krauts turned them down first, I don't know. Sure don't know why they picked the French).

RTAF folks are top knotch. But many of the finest, particularly among the F-16 crowd, are today opting to fly straight and level with Thai Airways. Considerably more money to haul trash and the unwashed. A real shame. I hope this can be fixed.

[Plus]

As long as Malaysia, Singapore, and particularly Burma keep buying planes and pugrading their militaries, Thais will have to keep up. It takes years, you can't just order a bunch of modern jets online and fly them tomorrow.

[richard10365]

Please stop Bickering and get back on topic otherwise this thread will be closed.

Thanks.

Close the thread, close the thread!!!.

[bonobo]

Don't matter what you fly, as long as you fly better than the guy you gonna get! E.g. Korea war; the NK had a better plane but not better pilots so they blew out. Many more examples but that one is the most famous. You can train a pilot in a heap of crap and still get better results than not training him in the best...Actually they will probably kill themselves if the fighter is better than they are!

There is a lot of truth to that.  The dentist I had when I was a kid shot down a MIG in his Corsair during the Korean War.

There is also national pride on the line.  The F-20 Tigershark was a perfectly servicable, economical plane built for the export market.  However, since the US military never bought it, other countries decided that they could not as well, buying the more expensive F-16 instead.

The F-22 and the F-35, besides not being available, are simply too expensive. And does Thailand need that sort of plane in its inventory?  

The Russian planes historically have been pretty bad. They have perhaps the greatest metalurgists in the world and use some really nice metals in their craft, but they are not very reliable and have not matched the west in weapons systems.

The British Hawk would not be a bad choice if a little dated. Indonesia has bought a bunch of them. The Typhoon has had problems.  I haven't heard much positve about the French Rafale.

The F1-6 may be getting dated, but it is still one of the best planes around, so I would lean towards betting that this may be what the Thai air force wants. However, I would not be surprised if they bought the Chinese F-10.

This plane is reportedly better than the MIG 35, and it costs less. The baht is strong against the yuan now, and it could also be a good political move.

[dominique355]

This is the one and BAE has just flogged about 70 of them to the Saudis.

I am sure if you ask politely they will throw in a couple of dancing girls or at least a few bottles of Chang to sweeten any deal......eh

Wot are you suggesting...we dont do that sort of thing...what??

Isn't this the Eurofighter?

[cdnvic]

Yes it is

[bkkandrew]

Get those Navy Harriers working again! Put the carrier to sea! Prepare to invade Singapore and reclaim the stolen satellites!

The glorious Thai military machine will be financed not only with frozen chickens, but also with fish heads, empty crisp packets and bottletops.

Whether Thailand bought Reagan's "Star Wars" system or The Lone Ranger's bow and arrow set, they would, most likely, send home the accompanying evil foreign training staff (denounced as worthless sexpats), not read the manual, steal the spares for sale at a remote deladt in Issan, then simply shoot at their own side in error!

Edited April 11, 2007 by bkkandrew

[Richard W]

Why does Thailand need these jets? Indeed any aircraft. Who is going to invade? Why does the Navy need submarines?

Worrying about the far south becoming another Kosovo.

Why tanks? They can be used in the jungle or paddies?

Thai armour has trashed French armour in the past.

[bkkandrew]

Why does Thailand need these jets? Indeed any aircraft. Who is going to invade? Why does the Navy need submarines?

Worrying about the far south becoming another Kosovo.

Why tanks? They can be used in the jungle or paddies?

Thai armour has trashed French armour in the past.

I am just getting the tin-foil hat ready for you.. Name the address and I will send it on!

[dclaryjr]

nick2k>> I am going to kick myself tomorrow for taking the bait and replying to your postings. In particular your remarrks on Russian vs

The aircraft itself is not the major factor...it is simply a weapons platform...and the Russians have some of the best software and best weapons. Do not kid yourself that everything American is the best! I only agree that their marketing is better!

ps DO NOT believe everything you read in the US press releases

I don't need the US press releases to know that historically Russian fighters have had reliability problems. For that I rely on a 20 year career spent monitoring Russian (and their clients in the Soviet era) operations and training. The weapon system does matter if it can't get out of a hanger.

My brother-in-law flew Hueys for the Thai Army--now there was an aircraft!!

[nick2k]

As long as Malaysia, Singapore, and particularly Burma keep buying planes and pugrading their militaries, Thais will have to keep up. It takes years, you can't just order a bunch of modern jets online and fly them tomorrow.

I agree with you. thailand needs to keep up to protect themselves. you would have to be naive to believe that everything is safe when everybody around you starts to build up their military.

I read that malaysia is to receive some su-30 next month. here's the link.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthrea...5240&page=5

[Levent]

Remember not too long ago Thailand was negotiating with Russia to buy some Mig 27s (and was going to pay for them with frozen chickens !)

I always felt the MIG buy was merely a smokescreen. The MIG 27 is an inferior plane, and while cheaper to buy, costs much more in the long run. Even when the Soviets were in power, the plane was up and combat-ready less than 50% of the time.  With neighbors buying the F16 and even F18, it didn't make sense for the Thais to buy the MIG 27.

Actually, though the things you speak of the Mig 27 are correct, the aircraft under consideration were the Su-30 and Mig 35. Both of them far ahead of the Mig 27.

What is the basis of your claim that the Mig 27 is inferior? Inferior to what? Anyway, the Mig 27 is superceded.

It strikes me that in the above four posts about this particular Russian aircraft, including statements that it is inferior to other jets, no one remarked that the type designation is incorrect. While the MiG-27 is an existing aircraft, it is a jet based on the earlier MiG-23 and it is a ground-attack aircraft.

The RTAF is looking for a new interceptor / air defence aircraft and it wasn't the MiG-27 they were looking into, but rather the Sukhoi Su-27 and MiG-29. Or indeed the newer version of the Su-27, the Su-30, and the newer version of the MiG-29 which is the MiG-35.

When the Su-27 and MiG-29 entered service, both aircraft were superior to any of the Western interceptors at that time. However, the break-down of the Soviet Union and lack of funding caused the Soviets / Russians to fall behind, while the West (read: the Americans) kept developing and improving their fighter jet models.

The abbreviation for Mikoyan-Gurevich is MiG, not MIG or Mig.

Isn't this the Eurofighter?

To be precise, it is the Eurofighter Typhoon. 'Eurofighter' is the programme's name, Typhoon is the type's designation.

[Jimmysj]

They should have, like they discussed a few years ago, buy the SAAB 39. A small but agile fighter of the third generation of jet fighters,instead of buying American planes that are really not suited for their needs.

A Typhoon or a F-22 would be a serious overkill. Such anvanced planes are not needed in this region.

The Chech Republic, Hungary, and South Africa has already bought the SAAB.

It would be a perfect solution for Thailand's needs.