14 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Italy and Spain were late with social distancing

Nope - they were late with testing, social distancing without mass testing and isolating active cases is pointless. Lockdown kicks the can down the road, but can work if you then test like crazy when you start to let people out, which I would presume is the idea in the UK who are ramping up their stock of tests as we speak.

 

Examples of this being successfully implemented are Germany, Singapore and Korea - the three countries with the lowest death rates to date, as you well know.

 

10 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

You are again wrong in respect to the hospitals. As soon as the crisis started most hospitals in hot zones enacted their crisis surge strategies. Elective surgeries were cancelled, all non critical cases were  moved out and all general activities were suspended.  Under the surge strategy, all hospitals  add beds. This is done by converting free spaces such as meeting rooms, dining areas, lobbies and lounges. It involves taking space from other departments.  New York state has about 53,000 hospital beds under the surge. The Covid19 apex is modeled to require 140,000 beds. This is why  additional facilities are being rushed. Canadian ERs have seen their general use drop to 60-75% from  the common 100-150% peaks. This was done to free up space. Canadians have been  doing their part not to bother the ERs with minor ailments. Also everyone knows that the ERs in hot zones are filled with Covid 19 cases now.  Your claim that hospitals are clogged with patients because of other deadly diseases is wrong. If they are full now, as is the case in Spain, France, italy and parts of the USA, it is because of Covid 19.

 

Yeah that's all well and good when it works, but what happens when it doesn't? Lombardy's resources were completely overwhelmed for a variety of reasons and that combined with ridiculous policy of assigning every death to Coronavirus if the patient has it in their blood regardless of what they actually died of, is what has given Italy it's falsely high mortality rate.

If you worked in life sciences you will be familiar with The Lancet:

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext

 

The NHS is in meltdown. When you put hundreds of people with the virus in a single building and the nurses are not being given the PPE they need (in Italy, Spain, UK) the viral load patients are exposed to crazy high, enough to kill healthy young nurses when they are run down from working multiple back to back 18-20 hour shifts:

"The experience with the coronavirus infection has shown that the severity of the disease depends i.a. on the amount of the virus entering patient‘s organism. During an explosive epidemic, it might be expected that the concentration of the virus in locations with a large number of infected people will be very high. Consequently, any person attending such places will run a much higher risk not only of contracting the infection but also of suffering a severe progression of the disease." (See attachment)

So then what happens? Governments panic and go into lockdown, blame the virus rather than there incompetency, try to buy some time with lockdown - start the "War on virus" (Macron, Johnson) effort to distract people from their blunder, the sheeple start crying to be locked down as they are scared of the falsely high death rate, economic collapse unfolds.

 

I'm all for social distancing with mass public testing and isolation of older and vulnerable people - who isn't? But dumbly quoting falsely high death rates that spreads fear and panic then backing it up saying lockdown is the way forward is unhelpful, naive and does nothing but makes things worse.

 

detailed-handbook-on-coronavirus-EN.pdf

30 minutes ago, tomster said:

 

 then what happens? Governments panic and go into lockdown, blame the virus rather than there incompetency, try to buy some time with lockdown - start the "War on virus" (Macron, Johnson) effort to distract people from their blunder, the sheeple start crying to be locked down as they are scared of the falsely high death rate, economic collapse unfolds.

 

I'm all for social distancing with mass public testing and isolation of older and vulnerable people - who isn't? But dumbly quoting falsely high death rates that spreads fear and panic then backing it up saying lockdown is the way forward is unhelpful, naive and does nothing but makes things worse.

 

detailed-handbook-on-coronavirus-EN.pdfUnavailable

Talking about wrong death rates, here is now Dr Fauci himself walking back his former predictions...

 

https://www.wnd.com/2020/03/dr-fauci-concedes-coronavirus-death-rate-like-bad-flu/

 

1 hour ago, tomster said:

Nope - they were late with testing, social distancing without mass testing and isolating active cases is pointless. Lockdown kicks the can down the road, but can work if you then test like crazy when you start to let people out, which I would presume is the idea in the UK who are ramping up their stock of tests as we speak.

 

Examples of this being successfully implemented are Germany, Singapore and Korea - the three countries with the lowest death rates to date, as you well know.

 

 

Yeah that's all well and good when it works, but what happens when it doesn't? Lombardy's resources were completely overwhelmed for a variety of reasons and that combined with ridiculous policy of assigning every death to Coronavirus if the patient has it in their blood regardless of what they actually died of, is what has given Italy it's falsely high mortality rate.

If you worked in life sciences you will be familiar with The Lancet:

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext

 

The NHS is in meltdown. When you put hundreds of people with the virus in a single building and the nurses are not being given the PPE they need (in Italy, Spain, UK) the viral load patients are exposed to crazy high, enough to kill healthy young nurses when they are run down from working multiple back to back 18-20 hour shifts:

"The experience with the coronavirus infection has shown that the severity of the disease depends i.a. on the amount of the virus entering patient‘s organism. During an explosive epidemic, it might be expected that the concentration of the virus in locations with a large number of infected people will be very high. Consequently, any person attending such places will run a much higher risk not only of contracting the infection but also of suffering a severe progression of the disease." (See attachment)

So then what happens? Governments panic and go into lockdown, blame the virus rather than there incompetency, try to buy some time with lockdown - start the "War on virus" (Macron, Johnson) effort to distract people from their blunder, the sheeple start crying to be locked down as they are scared of the falsely high death rate, economic collapse unfolds.

 

I'm all for social distancing with mass public testing and isolation of older and vulnerable people - who isn't? But dumbly quoting falsely high death rates that spreads fear and panic then backing it up saying lockdown is the way forward is unhelpful, naive and does nothing but makes things worse.

 

detailed-handbook-on-coronavirus-EN.pdfUnavailable

Brilliant post.

 

In fact Italy were one of the first to implement the social distance strategy of stopping flights. Two days after the diagnosis of the two Chinese tourists came in the Italian government closed Italy to Chinese.

 

Didn't do any good. Why? Because the carriers had already entered and the virus was spreading.

 

Those two Chinese tourists were probably not the real patients zero, there must have been others that slipped through undeteced, they were just the first identified.

 

Social distancing is shown up as the failure it is in Italy. The most draconian, earliest and most thorough social distancing of any country (obviously with the usual exceptions) but over 10,000 dead and hospitals overwhelmed.

 

So much for flattening the curve.

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Social distancing is shown up as the failure it is in Italy. The most draconian, earliest and most thorough social distancing of any country (obviously with the usual exceptions) but over 10,000 dead and hospitals overwhelmed.

 

So much for flattening the curve.

Social distancing and lockdowns seems to work well on flattening the economic curve and even drives it into a negative downward spiral possibly with negative exponential growth.