Therapeutics Will End The Panic

[Sheryl]

Don't confuse what Trump says with the opinions of his medical advisers...or with anything based on science. At the last conference -- the one where he went on about chloroquine - he would not let them speak.

 

There are at least as many small studies  and anecdotal reports showing no benefit at all from this drugs as there are ones showing it helps and there is no evidence yet available from proper random controlled trials. They are in progress but until they have results this hype is at best premature and at worst downright harmful.

[Steven Brothers]

March 29^th 2020 Malaysia Chloroquine, a drug used for malaria, has been used to treat Covid-19 patients since the first wave of the outbreak in Malaysia and shown its efficacy, says Health director-general Datuk Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah. He explained that the number of deaths due to the virus had increased as the patients were either elderly, had comorbidities such as high blood pressure and kidney disease, or those who sought treatment at a later stage or after they began having breathing difficulties.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2020/03/29/chloroquine-used-to-treat-covid-19-patients-since-first-wave-says-health-d/1851457

[Steven Brothers]

April 2^nd 2020 Sermo Survey of 6,200 Doctors in 30 countries reveals Hydroxychloroquine was overall chosen as the most effective therapy amongst COVID-19 treaters from a list of 15 options (37% of COVID-19 treaters)

https://www.sermo.com/press-releases/largest-statistically-significant-study-by-6200-multi-country-physicians-on-covid-19-uncovers-treatment-patterns-and-puts-pandemic-in-context/

[Steven Brothers]

Dr. Pier Luigi Bartoletti, Deputy National Secretary of the Italian Federation of General Practitioners, explains: The drug “is already giving good results” ... “every single person with Covid-19 that has early signs, like a cough or a fever for example, is now being treated with the anti-malaria drug. We have just understood that the virus has an evolution in two phases and that it is during the second phase, after a few days (about a week), that the situation can suddenly, in 24 or 48 hours, worsen and leads to respiratory failure requiring intensive care.”

 

“The results that we are starting to accumulate suggest that hydroxychloroquine administered early, gives the possibility of avoiding this evolution in a majority of patients and is also helping us to prevent hospitals from filling up.”

https://www.trustnodes.com/2020/03/29/italy-finally-starts-mass-treatment-with-hydroxychloroquine

Edited April 6, 2020 by Steven Brothers
to give location of original article

[tifino]

gee... if only nature had come to the fore; and enabled grapefruits to save the day!  - all that natural Quinine, that some the above mentioned/quoted drugs are a synthesis of... 

 

luv 'em... but mrs is like Obleix who cannot take any more of the magical Druid potion - for in her case she was dropped in a case  of malaria when she was a kid

[patsfangr]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I think that with the above vile post that the time has come for any exchange between us to come to a long overdue ending point. 

 

Goodbye and good luck. 

Now that is a 100% typical example of the double standard behavior of liberals! In two different posts you accused me, and other Trump supporters, of cult mentality. But when the same accusation is pointed in your direction (where it belongs!), you throw a hissy fit, brand it as a "vile post", and cut off conversation with the accuser. Are you so blind that you can't see your own hypocricy?

[patsfangr]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Unfortunately that's a highly biased far right wing pro 45 channel, even to the right of Fox News. So they wouldn't dare broadcast anything that could seen as skepticism about this med such as from Dr. Fauci. That said, it's great to hear of promising news even in the context of atrocious political bias, and I'm sure people all over the world are looking forward to the results of the various tests and studies that are being done now. So if this is a big answer. great. If not, there are other therapies worth testing as well. 

So sad that your membership in the Trump haters cult prevented you from posting only the portion of this post that begins with "it's great to hear ..." That was the proper response. The hatred for Trump and all conservatives was totally unnecessary. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, patsfangr said:

So sad that your membership in the Trump haters cult prevented you from posting only the portion of this post that begins with "it's great to hear ..." That was the proper response. The hatred for Trump and all conservatives was totally unnecessary. 

No. Garbage propaganda sources need to be pointed out. Actually they shouldn't be used at all.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, patsfangr said:

Now that is a 100% typical example of the double standard behavior of liberals! In two different posts you accused me, and other Trump supporters, of cult mentality. But when the same accusation is pointed in your direction (where it belongs!), you throw a hissy fit, brand it as a "vile post", and cut off conversation with the accuser. Are you so blind that you can't see your own hypocricy?

There is no equivalence. The President's political movement is objectively a cult of personality. That's a real thing in the world now and throughout history. Were you not aware of that? 

 

People in opposition to strong man cult of personality leaders are objectively not cults of personality. By definition you need a specific individual leader that meets the characteristics of a cult of personality movement leader for that to be. The opposition to 45 has nothing like that. 

Please be more careful with your specious personal accusations. 

[patsfangr]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No. Garbage propaganda sources need to be pointed out. Actually they shouldn't be used at all.

Any comment on the half dozen or so international videos posted by Steven Brothers? All "right wing propaganda" are they? Seriously, your absolute, unconditional, brainwashed hatred for Donald Trump has you blinded to even the possibility that he might say or do anything positive on any subject. Sad. Very sad. 

[UbonThani]

Ok

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I think that with the above vile post that the time has come for any exchange between us to come to a long overdue ending point. 

 

Goodbye and good luck. 

You Trump haters can dish it out but cannot handle it back.

Long overdue? I've never met you. Constant Trump bashing is just boring dude. Find something else to do.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by UbonThani

[patsfangr]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is no equivalence. The President's political movement is objectively a cult of personality. That's a real thing in the world now and throughout history. Were you not aware of that? 

 

People in opposition to strong man cult of personality leaders are objectively not cults of personality. By definition you need a specific individual leader that meets the characteristics of a cult of personality movement leader for that to be. The opposition to 45 has nothing like that. 

Please be more careful with your specious personal accusations. 

I give you ... Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi - co-leaders of your cult. You can put either one on top, and the other as the "right hand of god".

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, patsfangr said:

I give you ... Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi - co-leaders of your cult. You can put either one on top, and the other as the "right hand of god".

Sorry but you are obviously uninformed about the definition of what a political cult of personality movement actually is. It's a real thing. Perhaps you might wish to educate yourself with some basic research before posting such obviously wrong examples again. Pelosi is a normal politician and HRC is a normal ex politician. Neither are or were leaders of political cult of personality movements. 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Jingthing

[patsfangr]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sorry but you are obviously uninformed about the definition of what a political cult of personality movement actually is. It's a real thing. Perhaps you might wish to educate yourself with some basic research before posting such obviously wrong examples again. Pelosi is a normal politician and HRC is a normal ex politician. Neither are or were leaders of political cult of personality movements. 

 

Potayto - potahto! Trump haters all have the same consistent trait. They will not accept anything Trump says or does as truth or positive action. They are as closed to counter evidence as are the members of any cult, by any definition. The semantics are not the core of my point. The consistent, close-minded hatred is that point. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, patsfangr said:

Potayto - potahto! Trump haters all have the same consistent trait. They will not accept anything Trump says or does as truth or positive action. They are as closed to counter evidence as are the members of any cult, by any definition. The semantics are not the core of my point. The consistent, close-minded hatred is that point. 

You are clearly not at all interested in a good faith facts based debate. Instead it's all about showing blind faith and loyalty in the president and viciously insulting those that see the emperor has no clothes. Thus any further attempts at productive communication are obviously futile. 

So thus I bid you a hearty goodbye. 

[patsfangr]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You are clearly not at all interested in a good faith facts based debate. Instead it's all about showing blind faith and loyalty in the president and viciously insulting those that see the emperor has no clothes. Thus any further attempts at productive communication are obviously futile. 

So thus I bid you a hearty goodbye. 

THANK YOU! Best news I've heard in at least a month! 

[traveller101]

On 4/5/2020 at 3:32 PM, Buffy Frobisher said:

The OP says it's "hydroxychlorophine" which I believe is a mispelling - it's actually hydroxychloroquine, or just plain ol' chloroquine which is commony prescribed for malaria and lupus. Yes, it is being trialled in the US and some other countries in tandem with azithromycin (Zithromax), and it was proven successful in China, but both drugs together or on their own are capable of causing you a heart attack because they interfere with the QT rhythm interval in your heart. In Thailand hydroxy is only available when prescibed by a doctor. See here at the CDC website for details of the trials: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/therapeutic-options.html

 

You can buy Zithromax OTC here, and I can tell you from experience that it DOES work, or at least it did for me when I got a pretty serious dose of COVID-19 a couple of months ago and self-medicated; but don't take it if you have any type of heart or blood pressure condition. This virus was so bad I told my wife on Day 8 that I was dying, but on Day 11, just three days after starting the Zithromax, I woke up as if nothing had ever happened, though I do have lung damage and the dry cough persists even now.

 

Her indoors got a much milder dose, but I had nearly every sympton you hear of, probably the worst being the waterfall of fluid out of the back of my nose which, if it flows to your lungs will give you the killer pneumonia. It was all I could do to keep swallowing it instead, because the sore throat that comes with this is like nothing you've ever experienced, and I went three days without sleep, too scared to lie down in case I forgot to swallow it. And that was with a fatigue unlike anything you've had, and a 400lb weight sitting on my chest so that I could only sip air. Don't believe that it's like the 'flu - it make you the sickest you've ever been, and that's from a bloke who survived pancreatic cancer. This is way worse, but you CAN survive it. Stay well, one and all.

 

 

Dr. Frobisher - are you implying that Zithromax was successful in eliminating SARS-CoV2 from your body?

I thought it was common knowledge that Antibiotics like Zithromax are completely ineffective in the treatment of diseases caused by Viruses.

Your experience of rapid improvement seems to indicate that you suffered from a respiratory illness of bacterial origin and not from Covid-19.

[tlandtday]

6 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

Dr. Frobisher - are you implying that Zithromax was successful in eliminating SARS-CoV2 from your body?

I thought it was common knowledge that Antibiotics like Zithromax are completely ineffective in the treatment of diseases caused by Viruses.

Your experience of rapid improvement seems to indicate that you suffered from a respiratory illness of bacterial origin and not from Covid-19.

You need to read up more.  Zithromax is not being used to combat the virus it is being used as a second line defense against possible occurring bacterial infections causing pneumonia. 

[traveller101]

9 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

You need to read up more.  Zithromax is not being used to combat the virus it is being used as a second line defense against possible occurring bacterial infections causing pneumonia. 

You're absolutely correct and that is the reason why I arranged to get the Pneumovax@23 shot against bacterial pneumonia.

Maybe read the OP's post again - he states being infected with SARS-CoV2 and Zithromax alone cleared Covid-19 from his System in 3 days.

[Buffy Frobisher]

On 4/7/2020 at 9:53 PM, traveller101 said:

You're absolutely correct and that is the reason why I arranged to get the Pneumovax@23 shot against bacterial pneumonia.

Maybe read the OP's post again - he states being infected with SARS-CoV2 and Zithromax alone cleared Covid-19 from his System in 3 days.

No, I was not stating that Zithromax cleared Covid-19 from my body in 3 days! But it did play a big role in reducing inflammation in my throat and lungs and enabled me to breathe better and beat it.

 

It is known that Zithromax (azithromycin) DOES have an anti-inflammatory effect on tissue where this coronavirus is replicating, but it is unclear yet exactly why because, as you rightly say, antibiotics *usually* only work on bacterial infections. That is is why there are many double-blind trials underway in the US and other countries now to gauge how and why it works. Information regarding the trials of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin is available from the CDC at this URL. You can browse the various trials talking place worldwide: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04336332

 

The Chinese were the first to discover it when they were throwing anything and everything at the virus, and they advised the CDC that what is now known in the US as the Z-Pak (azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine in combination) both seemed to be working as anti-inflamatories. But still no-one knows why. I had self-medicated with amoxycillin for 5 days in the early stages to ensure I didn't get a secondary bacterial infection but it had no effect on the severity of the illness.

 

On the other hand, the use of Zithromax in desperation on day 8 pulled me up very quickly, and in my opinion far quicker than I would have had I not taken it. There are side effects to Zithromax that make it somewhat dangerous for self-medication because of its ability to interfere with the heart's QT interval, however having used that drug previously I was aware of my tolerance to it. Three months later I still have the dry cough, and a chest x-ray last Tuesday reveals scarring in my lungs that was not present in previous scans and x-rays. I'm waiting on the antibody test to confirm that I had Covid-19, but my doctors are quite convinced that that is what it was.

 

I am *not* suggesting that anyone use Zithromax, nor hydroxychloroquine for the same reason, but I am simply providing anecdotal information of my experience with this virus for what it's worth, if anything. I was current with flu vaccines and pneumonia vaccines, which may well have also helped me through this coronavirus attack by eliminating the risk of contracting either while I was battling the new guy.

 

On the subject of bacterial pneumonia vaccines, some of the team here might not be aware of there being two vaccines for over-65s now, with the newer one being the one you should get first which is known as Prevnar (PCV13). It's readily available in Bangkok. You then get the old one, Pneumovax (PPSV23) , six months later. Details from Harvard Medical School here: https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthy-aging/pneumonia-vaccines-for-adults.

 

Cheers all. Stay safe.

 

[rabas]

2 hours ago, Buffy Frobisher said:

No, I was not stating that Zithromax cleared Covid-19 from my body in 3 days! But it did play a big role in reducing inflammation in my throat and lungs and enabled me to breathe better and beat it.

 

It is known that Zithromax (azithromycin) DOES have an anti-inflammatory effect on tissue where this coronavirus is replicating, but it is unclear yet exactly why because, as you rightly say, antibiotics *usually* only work on bacterial infections.

Thanks, that clarifies your first post. Very intriguing story. If lung tissue is being torn up by nCoV_2019 it can easily cause secondary bacterial infections and inflammation, so antibiotics can help in two ways. Antibiotics are often used with influenza for the same reason.

 

Earlier research shows that azithromycin type antibiotics have some limited antiviral properties in  special cases, but not for coronaviruses that I have seen. I hope they can clarify azithromycin's role in the COVID-19 cocktails. Clindamycin is another  antibiotic used for pneumonia that also has excellent anti-inflammatory properties but has no antiviral properties.

 

2 hours ago, Buffy Frobisher said:

The Chinese were the first to discover it when they were throwing anything and everything at the virus, and they advised the CDC that what is now known in the US as the Z-Pak (azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine in combination) both seemed to be working as anti-inflamatories.

Chloroquine treatment for SARS corona virus has been studied for 15 years and a lot is known about how it works. They couldn't do human trials because SARS was successfully stopped. So, Chloroquine was a natural starting point for the Chinese.

 

I hope you can post your antibody test results when you get them, though your description is quite convincing. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by rabas