UK defends coronavirus response after Reuters investigation

[webfact]

UK defends coronavirus response after Reuters investigation

By Andrew MacAskill

 

UK's Raab says virus not peaked; too early to lift lockdown

 

LONDON (Reuters) - The British government defended its early handling of the coronavirus epidemic after a Reuters investigation found its scientific advisers were too slow to communicate their growing concerns about the outbreak to the public and ministers.

 

Prime Minister Boris Johnson initially approved a much more modest response to the outbreak than other major European countries, who took more stringent measures, though he later approved an effective shutdown of the United Kingdom.

 

Reuters reported this week that the scientific committees that advised Johnson did not study in detail, until mid-March, the option of the kind of stringent lockdown adopted early on in China, where the disease arose in December.

 

As they watched China impose its lockdown, the British scientists assumed that such drastic actions would never be acceptable in a democracy like the United Kingdom, the Reuters investigation found.

 

But Patrick Vallance, the government's top scientific adviser, said that modelling was carried out quickly enough to effectively inform Britain's reaction to the pandemic.

 

"It's not correct that we didn't model it until March. We modelled it throughout February," Vallance said at a news conference in Downing Street. "We modelled all of the interventions you have now seen."

 

Asked by Reuters why members of the modelling committee said that they had not carried out detailed modelling for a lockdown until March, Vallance said: "I know what happened, and I've just told you what happened, and the modelling came in from a variety of different sources."

 

The United Kingdom is entering what scientists say is the deadliest phase of the outbreak, with deaths expected to continue to rise over the Easter weekend.

 

Total UK hospital deaths from COVID-19 rose by 881 to 7,978 as of 1600 GMT on April 8, the government said on Thursday.

 

Minutes of technical committees reviewed by Reuters also indicate that almost no attention was paid to preparing a programme of mass testing.

After developing a test for the new virus by January 10, health officials adopted a centralized approach to its deployment, initially assigning a single public laboratory in north London to perform the tests.

 

But early on there was no wider plan envisaged to make use of hundreds of laboratories across the country, both public and private, that could have been recruited.

 

Chris Whitty, the government's chief medical adviser, who earlier this week admitted that the government should have moved much faster to mass test, said one of the problems was the government wanted to be sure the test worked.

 

"Initially we had to start off to make sure the test worked," Whitty said at the Downing Street briefing on Thursday. "We had to be confident about that and then it was rolled out in stages and continues to be rolled out in stages."

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-04-10

Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[Rookiescot]

If the virus had started in the UK then I think the response of the government would have been explainable but when cases started to appear we already knew what was happening in countries like China and Italy.

The measures in place now could have and should have been brought in when the first cases were found. Johnson however decided that a policy of allowing the virus to spread so a "herd immunity" could be built up.

Johnson has handled this crisis very poorly.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

If the virus had started in the UK then I think the response of the government would have been explainable but when cases started to appear we already knew what was happening in countries like China and Italy.

The measures in place now could have and should have been brought in when the first cases were found. Johnson however decided that a policy of allowing the virus to spread so a "herd immunity" could be built up.

Johnson has handled this crisis very poorly.

Agree, unfortunately the same goes for many western countries. It seems they all felt it would not be that bad for many reasons. Unfortunately they were wrong.

[FarFlungFalang]

20 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

If the virus had started in the UK then I think the response of the government would have been explainable but when cases started to appear we already knew what was happening in countries like China and Italy.

The measures in place now could have and should have been brought in when the first cases were found. Johnson however decided that a policy of allowing the virus to spread so a "herd immunity" could be built up.

Johnson has handled this crisis very poorly.

The crisis isn't over and the best way to handle the crisis has not yet been decided.So any judgements on the handling of the crisis is premature.

[FarFlungFalang]

19 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Agree, unfortunately the same goes for many western countries. It seems they all felt it would not be that bad for many reasons. Unfortunately they were wrong.

It's a strange virus indeed as it turns out it wasn't that bad for China and South Korea if you check the numbers today compared to the numbers in Europe and America.Some point to the weather but that doesn't seem to stack up when comparing Asia with Europe and America.Still early days.

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

The crisis isn't over and the best way to handle the crisis has not yet been decided.So any judgements on the handling of the crisis is premature.

The crisis is not over in the UK because it was allowed to become a crisis by Johnson and his decisions.

We had ample warning of what was going to happen. We had time to prepare but failed to do so. We had the opportunity to stock pile PPE, test kits and ventilators.

By introducing the lockdown earlier we would not have needed the huge amounts of this critical equipment we now face trying to source.

[stevenl]

18 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

It's a strange virus indeed as it turns out it wasn't that bad for China and South Korea if you check the numbers today compared to the numbers in Europe and America.Some point to the weather but that doesn't seem to stack up when comparing Asia with Europe and America.Still early days.

Maybe same as Spanish flu, which also had a far lower mortality rate in China than in western countries.

 

The SK approach seems to be testing and testing, and it looks like the west did not learn from that approach until it was too late.

Edited April 10, 2020 by stevenl

[cleopatra2]

Something amiss

One member of Sage says modelling done while another says not done.

[edwinchester]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

If the virus had started in the UK then I think the response of the government would have been explainable but when cases started to appear we already knew what was happening in countries like China and Italy.

The measures in place now could have and should have been brought in when the first cases were found. Johnson however decided that a policy of allowing the virus to spread so a "herd immunity" could be built up.

Johnson has handled this crisis very poorly.

I wouldn't call their response 'poorly', more like inept and reckless. Ample evidence of what would happen and their measures to contain the virus was coming in from China but for whatever reasons they chose to delay the UK's own response. They are directly responsible for thousands of extra victims.

[Rimmer]

A conspiricy troll post has been removed:

 

Any posts or topics which our moderation team deems to be scaremongering, deliberately misleading or has been posted to deliberately distort information will be removed without warning. You may also be subject to a posting suspension or have your profile permanently suspended from the site. 

[Enoon]

 

Quite common for Britain to start off its wars with ineptitude, retreats and disasters.

 

 

[Surelynot]

Who the hell votes Tory? They are killing us. Austerity, universal credit, running down the NHS and now their response to covid19. STOP VOTING TORY.

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, pegman said:

It seems big money interests dictated the response in some countries. Let the good times roll. Don't do anything to slow the boom economy. Both bumbling Boris and Trump tried to delay the inevitable and it is costing their respective populations dearly. Some western countries like Canada did get an early jump on testing and isolating people. I saw a poll today where Trump had a 42% approval rating for his handling of the pandemic. By contrast Trudeau was at 74% approval. One Canadian premier was at a crazy 97% approval.

Yes, those are the rating one expects in times of need when a country unites and the approval grows. 42% is the same as every other day.

Edited April 10, 2020 by stevenl

[andy72]

OF COURSE THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT GOING TO ADMIT MISTAKES

 

they never do no one does

yes, the uk was slow to act the whole world was slow to act and yes money was an overriding decision maker

 

what i cannot understand is why no one is trying any prophylactic on front line nhs 

yes we dont have a cure for covid

but we also do not have one for hiv but we do have a prophylactic that reduces risk

we have many anti viral agents that may or may not prohibit infection 

maybe thats what the anti malarial drug is all about

 

maybe they cannot publish because there would be an insane rush to try obtain it.

[Dap]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

The crisis is not over in the UK because it was allowed to become a crisis by Johnson and his decisions.

We had ample warning of what was going to happen. We had time to prepare but failed to do so. We had the opportunity to stock pile PPE, test kits and ventilators.

By introducing the lockdown earlier we would not have needed the huge amounts of this critical equipment we now face trying to source.

Always easy to say in hindsight   "We" equals you and the mouse in your pocket? And in that case, yes (we) could have done all of those things (stockpile PPE, food, extraneous supplies, etc). I might ask, why you didn't start (or ask those folks to start when you could obviously see it was necessary) all by yourself instead of waiting for someone else to do it? It's a rhetorical question (and by definition) no reply necessary.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Dap

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

The 42% you are quoting is his overall approval rating. His covid handling approval is at 60% per Gallup.

If so, then the inmates have truly taken over the asylum. 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Dap said:

Always easy to say in hindsight   "We" equals you and the mouse in your pocket? And in that case, yes (we) could have done all of those things (stockpile PPE, food, extraneous supplies, etc). I might ask, why you didn't start (or ask those folks to start when you could obviously see it was necessary) all by yourself instead of waiting for someone else to do it? It's a rhetorical question (and by definition) no reply necessary.

Ill thought-out nonsense dressed up as condescending pap. 

 

We have a central government specifically to perform the functions you suggest. We pay them to do the very thing at which they have so spectacularly failed. 

 

Once this is over, there must be a thorough and transparent inquiry to understand why our government has failed us so badly. The individuals responsible must own their failure publicly. 

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

Agree, unfortunately the same goes for many western countries. It seems they all felt it would not be that bad for many reasons. Unfortunately they were wrong.

 

They all listened to WHO and it's wonderful leader.

[Thongkorn]

5 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

Quite common for Britain to start off its wars with ineptitude, retreats and disasters. It could be worse we could be American.

 

 

Yer but we come through though, Thanks for the compliment

Edited April 10, 2020 by Thongkorn

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

They all listened to WHO and it's wonderful leader.

Nonsense. WHO issued a pandemic warning in January, nothing was done by the western countries, some even still downplaying, till mid march.

[Baerboxer]

25 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Ill thought-out nonsense dressed up as condescending pap. 

 

We have a central government specifically to perform the functions you suggest. We pay them to do the very thing at which they have so spectacularly failed. 

 

Once this is over, there must be a thorough and transparent inquiry to understand why our government has failed us so badly. The individuals responsible must own their failure publicly. 

 

What political nonsense!

 

Of course there is risk management as a part of all governments. Run be civil servants who advise their incumbent government politicians. 

 

Many Western governments would've a) listened to WHO and it's advise; b) been keenly aware of the economic burden an over reaction or knee-jerk reaction would place on it's citizens; and c) be aware of the emergency preparations actually in place and the speed at which those could be ramped up.

 

Of course there will be post pandemic reviews to capture learning points and prepare better.

 

Only not the pointing of fingers with hindsight masquerading as genius.

 

As for individuals accepting responsibility - one only has to look at Scotland's chief medical officer to see that won't happen.

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense. WHO issued a pandemic warning in January, nothing was done by the western countries, some even still downplaying, till mid march.

 

What don't you read what the WHO leader actually said, the WHO advise that was being given, and their downplaying of this in January rather than post rubbish?

 

Go on treat yourself, do some research.

[Megasin1]

I'm sorry but I can't credit anything currently that news agents are reporting, as let's face it, this is not a news report at all as aren't most news agents, especially the BBC. News agents have moved totally away from their origins of news reporting and are in the rounds of: news creation, fabrication, dramatization and downright inaccurate reporting.

If you watched the hacks on the evening UK updates you, like most intelligent people would give up. They ask the most stupid questions over and over, repeating the same ones every day indicating that they have absolutely zero intelligence and are only trying to sensationalise something. I am truly amazed that political reporters have absolutely no idea how the government makes decisions and they should all be sacked. I believe that it is time for children to ask the questions, it would certainly be far more entertaining with probably better informed questions.

[Megasin1]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense. WHO issued a pandemic warning in January, nothing was done by the western countries, some even still downplaying, till mid march.

absolute mis-informed and naive reply. The WHO are the world's watchdog and although it pains me to say this but Trump was correct. WHO constantly played down the threat and certainly did not issue a pandemic in January, it wasn't until 12th March that they issued a pandemic warning. This was far too late as it had spread too far by then for any country to effect measures to control the spread. WHO were inept, unprofessional, irresponsible and totally useless. To say anything otherwise is a failure to understand critical management.

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What don't you read what the WHO leader actually said, the WHO advise that was being given, and their downplaying of this in January rather than post rubbish?

 

Go on treat yourself, do some research.

As I said, WHO warning in January, western governments doing nothing in February and many nothing again till mid march.

 

Why don't you read an actual timeline in stead of make believe stories, treat yourself.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, Megasin1 said:

absolute mis-informed and naive reply. The WHO are the world's watchdog and although it pains me to say this but Trump was correct. WHO constantly played down the threat and certainly did not issue a pandemic in January, it wasn't until 12th March that they issued a pandemic warning. This was far too late as it had spread too far by then for any country to effect measures to control the spread. WHO were inept, unprofessional, irresponsible and totally useless. To say anything otherwise is a failure to understand critical management.

Incorrect. WHO issued a warning in January, ignored by many, downplayed by some.

 

As I said before, WHO made mistakes. But blaming the WHO is just deflecting for their own mistakes.

Edited April 10, 2020 by stevenl

[stevenl]

19 minutes ago, Megasin1 said:

I'm sorry but I can't credit anything currently that news agents are reporting, as let's face it, this is not a news report at all as aren't most news agents, especially the BBC. News agents have moved totally away from their origins of news reporting and are in the rounds of: news creation, fabrication, dramatization and downright inaccurate reporting.

If you watched the hacks on the evening UK updates you, like most intelligent people would give up. They ask the most stupid questions over and over, repeating the same ones every day indicating that they have absolutely zero intelligence and are only trying to sensationalise something. I am truly amazed that political reporters have absolutely no idea how the government makes decisions and they should all be sacked. I believe that it is time for children to ask the questions, it would certainly be far more entertaining with probably better informed questions.

As usual TVF posters know better than the professionals.

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, Dap said:

Always easy to say in hindsight   "We" equals you and the mouse in your pocket? And in that case, yes (we) could have done all of those things (stockpile PPE, food, extraneous supplies, etc). I might ask, why you didn't start (or ask those folks to start when you could obviously see it was necessary) all by yourself instead of waiting for someone else to do it? It's a rhetorical question (and by definition) no reply necessary.

I did.

I was right.

[CharlieH]

Reported Troll content removed.

[RuamRudy]

22 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What political nonsense!

 

Of course there is risk management as a part of all governments. Run be civil servants who advise their incumbent government politicians. 

 

Many Western governments would've a) listened to WHO and it's advise; b) been keenly aware of the economic burden an over reaction or knee-jerk reaction would place on it's citizens; and c) be aware of the emergency preparations actually in place and the speed at which those could be ramped up.

 

Of course there will be post pandemic reviews to capture learning points and prepare better.

 

Only not the pointing of fingers with hindsight masquerading as genius.

 

As for individuals accepting responsibility - one only has to look at Scotland's chief medical officer to see that won't happen.

Expecting our leaders to be held to account is political, is it? Should we just dispense with accountability altogether, and tell the electorate to shut up and be grateful for whatever they receive? 

 

Your argument about hindsight might be reasonable if we had no warning of the horrors we are currently experiencing. What we have though, is another example of our government's failure to recognise a threat and take steps to prepare for it.