How coronavirus hitched a ride through China

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

Maybe you need to check reading comprehension skills on those numbers...

I don't make the numbers up believe it or not, I post the 'official figures'.

 

As for reading comprehension here they are below for those who are visually challenged. that doesn't necessarily mean mentally challenged.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

i don't thimk those numbers mean what you think they mean. 

 

Wuhan (China), the epicenter of the pandemic, today reported 1,290 additional deaths that had not been previously counted and reported, bringing the total number of deaths in Wuhan from 2,579 to 3,869, an increase of 50%, as the result of a revision by the Wuhan New Coronary Pneumonia Epidemic Prevention and Control. As part of this revision, 325 additional cases in Wuhan were also added. Separately, China's National Health Commission (NHC) reported 26 new cases (and no deaths) in its daily report

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/

Another Chinese apologist. I wonder if they are looking at the world map and thinking mmm

 

1.3 billion and we are trying to convince the world we have this amount. Lets throw a few more on and blame it on a back log. Priceless.

[Traubert]

11 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

It seems more and more difficult to get completely rid of that virus . It may be here to stay . In that case there will be no way back to ' normal ' .

It is only lucky that it is not very deadly ( yet ) because it mutates constantly ...

No, it doesn't.

[ChouDoufu]

12 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Another Chinese apologist. I wonder if they are looking at the world map and thinking mmm

 

1.3 billion and we are trying to convince the world we have this amount. Lets throw a few more on and blame it on a back log. Priceless.

do i understand your post?

 

are you saying the number added in the revision is NOT previous uncounted deaths, but rather actual deaths that occurred TODAY?  (today being the date of the revision)

 

today, now, as we speak, as wuhan has been removed from lockdown, as people are moving more or less freely about the city with their cellphones and their social media, and despite vpn's functioning normally in china?

 

that's what you're saying?

[rabas]

4 hours ago, mikebike said:

And, of course, YOU speak for "the west"... ????

West refers to the free world, we have something here called free speech.

 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and the off topic replies have been removed.

[Crazy Alex]

11 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

do i understand your post?

 

are you saying the number added in the revision is NOT previous uncounted deaths, but rather actual deaths that occurred TODAY?  (today being the date of the revision)

 

today, now, as we speak, as wuhan has been removed from lockdown, as people are moving more or less freely about the city with their cellphones and their social media, and despite vpn's functioning normally in china?

 

that's what you're saying?

I think he's saying what he actually said.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

A Chinese apologist thank you.

Ad hominem.

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

I think he's saying what he actually said.

i think so, too, but was waiting for him to respond. 

 

cause it looks like he's saying that instead of reclassifying previous incorrect cause of death, that suddenly 1300 people in wuhan all died on one day.  and somehow nobody in wuhan noticed?  shirley we'd have heard something, as they all have cellphones and they're all constantly on social media.  some are even on facebook and twitter, as the vpn's are working.

 

apparently he saw the +number on the totals list and jumped to the conclusion he really, really, ueber-really wants to believe.

[rabas]

On 4/17/2020 at 7:31 PM, Traubert said:

On 4/17/2020 at 8:28 AM, nobodysfriend said:

It is only lucky that it is not very deadly ( yet ) because it mutates constantly ...

No, it doesn't.

Thousands of times, so far.

 

Next week a Cambridge group will publish a paper in PNAS showing the evolution of just over 1000 mutations. Pre release talk is that it will bury the wet market distraction for good. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 4/17/2020 at 1:40 PM, Snow Leopard said:

Because it was reported to them from Taiwan. 

Apparently not - and certainly not in "mid December." According to the Taiwanese Health Minister they sent an email to the WHO on December 31. However the wording of the email certainly doesn't sound like a warning to me.

 

Quote

In Taipei on Saturday, Health Minister Chen Shih-chung quoted the text of the Dec. 31 email written in English that the government sent to the WHO.

 

'News resources today indicate that at least seven atypical pneumonia cases were reported in Wuhan, China,' the health minister said, reading the email.

 

'Their health authorities replied to the media that the cases were believed not to be SARS, however the samples are still under examination, and cases have been isolated for treatment,' he continued.

 

'I would greatly appreciate if you have relevant information to share with us.'

So the email (based on what the Health Minister read out) appears to be asking for information, not giving it. Now, the minister did later claim that the reference to cases being isolated constitutes a warning but the WHO contests that - and I have to say I don't see it either.

[7by7]

On 4/17/2020 at 11:55 AM, Isaan sailor said:

CCP owns Wuhan virus.  Bring on the reparations.  

 

This outbreak may have started in Wuhan, but the virus did not originate there. Coronavirus was first identified in 1931 in North Dakota. 

 

So if you must rename coronavirus after a location, the logical one is North Dakota. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by 7by7

[rabas]

11 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Apparently not - and certainly not in "mid December." According to the Taiwanese Health Minister they sent an email to the WHO on December 31. However the wording of the email certainly doesn't sound like a warning to me.

 

So the email (based on what the Health Minister read out) appears to be asking for information, not giving it. Now, the minister did later claim that the reference to cases being isolated constitutes a warning but the WHO contests that - and I have to say I don't see it either.

"Atypical pneumonia, possibly SARS like, patients in isolation to prevent contagion", Taiwan told WHO.

 

Taipeitimes :  "The WHO on Friday said it received an e-mail from the Ministry of Health and Welfare on Dec. 31 last year, but added that “there was no mention in the message of human-to-human transmission.” "

 

'No Human to Human transmission', lied the WHO about SARS like atypical pneumonia now placed in isolation wards. ISOLATION WARDS.

 

For them to say no sign of H2H when told about atypical pneumonia in isolation wards means only one thing, China had already been talking to WHO bending their ear to tell the world it was all OK no H2H.

 

WHO lied, people died, CCP smiled. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by rabas

[rabas]

25 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

This outbreak may have started in Wuhan, but the virus did not originate there. Coronavirus was first identified in 1931 in North Dakota. 

 

So if you must rename coronavirus after a location, the logical one is North Dakota. 

Not same corona virus. That was not a bat virus.

 

According to WIKI corona viruses were first discovered in North Dakota due to scientific research. That does not mean they originated in North Dakota.

 

"The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all coronaviruses is estimated to have existed as recently as 8000 BCE"

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by rabas

[Logosone]

On 4/17/2020 at 7:23 PM, Laughing Gravy said:

I don't make the numbers up believe it or not, I post the 'official figures'.

 

 

Why does China even bother posting official numbers, surely nobody in their right mind can believe the Chinese figures are anywhere near to being accurate? 

 

One has to draw a distinction between places like the UK, which is highly transparent and for instance itself admitted its death figures were inaccurate due to the reporting procedure and then subsequently had a jump in cases when that death reporting procedure was changed, or which admitted that only hospital deaths were included in the numbers, and then places like China where one must have a reasonable suspicion that those figures are most likely purposefully inaccurate.

 

If China is the place where this originated it must have far larger numbers than most places.

 

Equally the figures in a place like South Korea, a country known for endemic and widespread political corruption maybe equally hair-styled.

 

Then there's Thailand where figures most likely are useless due to hardly any testing whatsoever.

 

Can we trust any of the numbers in Asia, really?

[Snow Leopard]

11 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Apparently not - and certainly not in "mid December." According to the Taiwanese Health Minister they sent an email to the WHO on December 31. However the wording of the email certainly doesn't sound like a warning to me.

 

So the email (based on what the Health Minister read out) appears to be asking for information, not giving it. Now, the minister did later claim that the reference to cases being isolated constitutes a warning but the WHO contests that - and I have to say I don't see it either.

So where is the transparancey from the CCP and where are the missing doctors and research scientists? I think Taiwan knew about on Dec the 15th by monitoring the social media inside China. Anyway if i am wrong aplogies. Officially its the 31st of Dec.

 

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wuhan-virus/

 

 

[mikebike]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:29 PM, Crazy Alex said:

You don't believe there is ample evidence China has prevented the free flow of facts, data and information?????? Wow. By any chance are you from China?

Most countries are guilty of "preventing the free flow of facts, data and information".

 

Not sure what your point is.

[mikebike]

On 4/17/2020 at 7:23 PM, Laughing Gravy said:

I don't make the numbers up believe it or not, I post the 'official figures'.

 

As for reading comprehension here they are below for those who are visually challenged. that doesn't necessarily mean mentally challenged.

 

Dig deeper... you can figure it out.

[mikebike]

On 4/17/2020 at 9:08 PM, rabas said:

West refers to the free world, we have something here called free speech.

 

Yes, which is very different in the UK v the USA. The American version of free speach is not universal in "the west". Anyway, you do not speak for "the west", you speak for yourself.

Edited April 19, 2020 by mikebike

[7by7]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Not same corona virus. That was not a bat virus.

Correct, it was first identified in chickens. But covid19 belongs to the coronavirus family. 

 

1 hour ago, rabas said:

According to WIKI corona viruses were first discovered in North Dakota due to scientific research. That does not mean they originated in North Dakota.

Didn't say they originated in North Dakota, I said they were first identified there. This variation appears to have first crossed the species barrier in Wuhan, but did it originate there? 

 

1 hour ago, rabas said:

"The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all coronaviruses is estimated to have existed as recently as 8000 BCE"

10,000 years ago!

 

All the more reason not to refer to it by a location. 

 

But if people want to name pandemics after the location of the earliest identified cases, they should start by calling the variation of the H1N1 virus still commonly called Spanish flu by the location of it's first cases; i.e Kansas flu. 

[7by7]

25 minutes ago, Logosone said:

like the UK, which is highly transparent and for instance itself admitted its death figures were inaccurate due to the reporting procedure and

 

Cummings' politician minions only admitted the 'inaccuracies' in the government's figures after they were found out! 

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 

Cummings' politician minions only admitted the 'inaccuracies' in the government's figures after they were found out! 

 

Exactly, because of a free and hard working media which investigated.

 

Now in places where such an investigative and confrontational media tradition is absent, say in a place where corruption is endemic like South Korea, or where a Communist lying machine is part of the day, or a place where confronting authority can end very badly like in Thailand, what hope is there of getting numbers that are anywhere near accurate?

 

We can not trust the numbers from Asia. And that includes China, South Korea, Thailand and probably Japan.

[JackThompson]

On 4/17/2020 at 1:40 PM, Snow Leopard said:

Because it was reported to them from Taiwan. 

More conspiracy theories.  There is no such place as "Taiwan" on Earth.  I know, because I saw a WHO top-level guy panic and shut-down an interview when some "conspiracy theorist" tried to imply that such a place exists.  No one who is "respected in the global community ^(tm) " believes a place called Taiwan exists - and he didn't want to get tarred with that brush. /sarc/

[7by7]

Taiwan’s coronavirus response wins rare praise from World Health Organisation.

 

 

[7by7]

Coronavirus blame game as US, China and WHO all keen to pass the buck.

[sukhumvitneon]

On 4/16/2020 at 10:03 PM, Misty said:

"New infections in China have declined sharply since a peak of 15,000 cases reported in a single day in February." 

 

Was it the new infections that declined, or just the number of infections that were being reported? 

 

From Bloomberg article in Feb:

"The number of new coronavirus cases reported by Hubei province dropped sharply after China changed the way it officially reports the number of infections for the second time in a month, raising questions over the reliability of data from the epicenter of the outbreak." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-20/data-mistrust-grows-as-hubei-changes-virus-count-method-again 

 

 

No one will know the true amount of cases in China nor how the virus originated because you can't believe anything the CCP says

[JackThompson]

On 4/17/2020 at 3:56 PM, Coremouse said:

They did release multiple DNA sequencing Jan 12.

... after ordering the destruction of the first samples and research on the virus in December, and criminalizing the release of information about the virus. 

 

Some violated that order, and spoke out anyway.  Some of those can not be located, now.   Search "Could you un-disappear" "so we could speak?" for news-stories about these individuals.

[rabas]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

On 4/17/2020 at 3:56 PM, Coremouse said:

They did release multiple DNA sequencing Jan 12.

... after ordering the destruction of the first samples and research on the virus in December, and criminalizing the release of information about the virus. 

 

Some violated that order, and spoke out anyway.  Some of those can not be located, now.   Search "Could you un-disappear" "so we could speak?" for news-stories about these individuals.

The only reason China released the genome on Jan 12 is because Thailand had already sequenced the genome from the first patients outside China. When Thailand saw the Chinese results they announced it matched their prior work.

 

CHina had no choice, caught covering up again.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

All the more reason not to refer to it by a location. 

 

But if people want to name pandemics after the location of the earliest identified cases, they should start by calling the variation of the H1N1 virus still commonly called Spanish flu by the location of it's first cases; i.e Kansas flu. 

They name pandemics after where they think they started. It is not a racial thing. Its a science mnemonic. The deadly version of the Spanish flu was first announced in Spain because Spain was not in WW1 and its press was not ordered to suppress news that could help the enemy.

 

Recent research now suggests the deadly version first appeased in northern China in 1917 but was so lethal with people turning blue they didn't think it was a flu, and so recorded it as a unknown deadly pneumonia.

 

Recent research.

https://www.history.com/news/china-epicenter-of-1918-flu-pandemic-historian-says

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic/

https://www.statnews.com/2018/12/05/1918-spanish-flu-unraveling-mystery/

https://international.thenewslens.com/article/93408

[ChouDoufu]

14 hours ago, rabas said:

Thousands of times, so far.

 

Next week a Cambridge group will publish a paper in PNAS showing the evolution of just over 1000 mutations. Pre release talk is that it will bury the wet market distraction for good. 

you appear to be correct, if you are referring to the same cambridge study by forster and renfrew (not yet peer reviewed).

 

will have to wait until the final study is published, but news summaries report that mutations were traced to indicate the virus first appeared months earlier (september) in guangdong province.

 

if confirmed, that would not preclude origination in a wet market, just not the wuhan market.  guangdong people eat some strange stuff.

 

Phylogenetic network analysis of SARS-CoV-2 genomes

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117