RIP Pattaya

[crobe]

12 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

I have never been to any of those (well Angeles for 3 days).  Have spent about 10 years in Pattaya.  So honest question not argument.  

 

IMO the reason Pattaya exploded wasn't just the sex trade.  Or cheap booze.  Certainly they were a MAJOR factor in it.  But the other areas were the beach (yeah Pattaya beach sucks but it's still the ocean and clean ones available locally and it is WARM year round), the fact one could party and get hookers SAFELY (no arrests or pimps banging down doors), the mixture in the local expat community and the numerous surrounding golf courses.

 

IMO the greatest killer of Pattaya is the currency issue.  If the value of foreign currency is high, and single (or not) men with money and the urge to enjoy a nightlife of debauchery and golf in the daytime Pattaya will do fine.  So is there another place that provides all of these features?  I'm open to new travels.

 

 

On Siem Reap I am especially curious.  I have friends who went to play golf.  Problem is I think there is only one course and it is pricy.  Night life?  

 

 

I am sure you are more interested in this area, and I have also spent a few trips in Angeles, but it is difficult to find the same mix of golf, beer and hookers as you have around here.

Further afield I was once sailing with friends around Spain and we put into Fuengirola, halfway between Torremolinos and Marbella, just as they were having their "beer party" weekend - ended up in a lot of drinking with a golf group from Cork, and there were girls around...

One of the best couple of days I have had

[tropo]

On 4/21/2020 at 7:10 PM, Silent Tiger said:

The place Pattaya will never make a come back after this IMO its been dying now last 15yrs min !!! The locals killed the goose that laid the golden egg ripping tourists off from bar girls to taxis i wonder if they will reflect on how life was good when the farrang flocked there from mid 80s to 90s !!! Thanks for the memories !!!

I've been here for 15 years and note that it has been improving (pre-covid, that is)

 

You're looking at Pattaya from a different perspective. As a sex tourist destination it has been getting worse for 15 years, with that I will agree... but while you'd been lamenting the decline of the sex industry, many 5 star hotels had gone up and a number of shopping malls. For non sex tourists, the place had improved by a significant degree. It might not be your thing, but for many it is.

 

Pattaya will never be the same again. This pandemic could be the catalyst to turn Pattaya into a "proper" tourist destination. If the International tourists don't come, then it will become a domestic beach resort. It will eventually find its own level after a lot of heartbreak and financial tourmoil.

[bwpage3]

It's not just Pattaya.

 

Thailand has an expectation tourists will return in huge numbers.

 

What if they don't return?

[hotandsticky]

4 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

It's not just Pattaya.

 

Thailand has an expectation tourists will return in huge numbers.

 

What if they don't return?

 

 

The Chinese have to go somewhere...

[crobe]

11 minutes ago, tropo said:

I've been here for 15 years and note that it has been improving (pre-covid, that is)

 

You're looking at Pattaya from a different perspective. As a sex tourist destination it has been getting worse for 15 years, with that I will agree... but while you'd been lamenting the decline of the sex industry, many 5 star hotels had gone up and a number of shopping malls. For non sex tourists, the place had improved by a significant degree. It might not be your thing, but for many it is.

 

Pattaya will never be the same again. This pandemic could be the catalyst to turn Pattaya into a "proper" tourist destination. If the International tourists don't come, then it will become a domestic beach resort. It will eventually find its own level after a lot of heartbreak and financial tourmoil.

You're right - things change and the perspective also changes

I lived in Amsterdam in the mid 80s and go back there now it seems a lot more touristy and less bohemian than I remember - but on the other hand people who were there in the 60s say it was so much different then

Pattaya is going through a similar transformation but is still interesting.

 

[Ron jeremy]

On May 19, 2020 at 4:51 AM, jacko45k said:

It was like that round there before!

 

Actually I rode down Arunothai Sunday morning and it looked pretty glum, lots of folks hanging about... but that wasn't evident in other areas like 2nd Rd and Klang. Perhaps they were waiting on some handout station there on Arunothia to open?

That whole area was, is and always will be a ghetto.

[newnative]

26 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Sure, many tourists.  I did also before I moved here.

Like it or not Pattaya is still rated as one of the top, if not the top male entertainment/sex destinations in the world.  So, what else?  Bring your family for a holiday?  Some do, but it is mostly men looking for fun and sex.

I personally find nothing wrong with it.

As a resident however, I never go to WS.  And Soi 6 occasionally as I have some solid female contacts there.

Other then that you are right there are other activities. Mainly golf for me. And just about anything I can do in my home country I can do here and more.
 

      I personally find nothing wrong with it, too.  Pattaya will likely be a popular 'male entertainment/sex destination' well into the future.  It wasn't a problem for me when I moved here 10 years ago and is not a problem now.   It's certainly an important tourist element.  The point I try to make is that Pattaya is also becoming popular with other tourist elements.  And, yes, even families--who are starting to be seen in increasing numbers in Jomtien, Cosy Beach, Pratamnak, Wong Amat/Naklua, and other areas. 

     Obviously, you don't get a brand new Jomtien Hospital, a Terminal 21, a new Audi dealership to join BMW and Mercedes, and lots of new upscale hotels, condos, shopping, and restaurants along with many other new things solely on the trade of sex tourists.  Just as an aside, most tourists don't buy an Audi to take home in their suitcases so Pattaya, itself, apparently is growing enough in permanent residents to attract Audi, and most other major auto brands available in Thailand.

      But, try to say that Pattaya is attracting more than sex tourists and you will be told repeatedly and in no uncertain terms to go have your head examined.   After all, all Pattaya has on offer if you listen to some is a 'dirty beach'--mentioned several times by posters in just this thread.  (Which begs the question as to why so many people are clamoring for the beach to be re-opened if it is so awful.  Curious.)

     Recently, not having learned my lesson, I even dropped into the conversation the preposterous notion that some wealthy Bangkok people actually have getaway Pattaya condos--giving a number of examples of usually smaller, discreet, direct beachfront condo projects tucked away out of sight here and there with Bangkok owners.  I also mentioned that I had lived in a small Wong Amat condo project that had many Bangkok owners.  Result?  Abject disbelief.  And, now I am off to get my head examined.  

[kingofthemountain]

28 minutes ago, newnative said:

 After all, all Pattaya has on offer if you listen to some is a 'dirty beach'--mentioned several times by posters in just this thread.  (Which begs the question as to why so many people are clamoring for the beach to be re-opened if it is so awful.  Curious.)

 

Yes it was me and i confirm what i writed

 

the Pattaya beach is dirty (The sand is clean now only because nobody is allowed to go on) the sea is polluted and the air is full of gasole flavor with the speed boat, sea scooters on the water, coaches and bahts bus on the road (Of course not now, i am talking in ''normal'' time)

 

But

 

it's still a beach, and i like to seat here at the end of the day and look at the sunset

i like to walk on the sand on the 2 kilometers for some leg exercice 

 

i probably would prefer a nicer clean beach with white sand and clear water but unfortunely for some reasons the cities with a beautiful beach don't have hookers in the same big numbers and cheap prices that Pattaya has

 

so i do according to my current priorities

 

i hope i have answered your question

Edited May 20, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[Pattaya46]

38 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

the Pattaya beach is dirty (The sand is clean now only because nobody is allowed to go on) the sea is polluted and the air is full of gasole flavor with the speed boat, sea scooters on the water, coaches and bahts bus on the road (Of course not now, i am talking in ''normal'' time)

There are many beaches in Pattaya area.

Why do you choose to go to the only one who has a road along it?

[pineapple01]

Why not mention all holiday resorts worldwide. Are they immune for some reason

[bwpage3]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

I've been here for 15 years and note that it has been improving (pre-covid, that is)

 

You're looking at Pattaya from a different perspective. As a sex tourist destination it has been getting worse for 15 years, with that I will agree... but while you'd been lamenting the decline of the sex industry, many 5 star hotels had gone up and a number of shopping malls. For non sex tourists, the place had improved by a significant degree. It might not be your thing, but for many it is.

 

Pattaya will never be the same again. This pandemic could be the catalyst to turn Pattaya into a "proper" tourist destination. If the International tourists don't come, then it will become a domestic beach resort. It will eventually find its own level after a lot of heartbreak and financial tourmoil.

Domestic Beach Resort complete with Thai's leaving their trash everywhere.

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

There are many beaches in Pattaya area.

Why do you choose to go to the only one who has a road along it?

it's the closest beach from my condo

and i usualy do a short time with a beach road freelancer

before or after to go on the beach, so it's more convenient for me

with all in the same area (Plus i can use the toilets in one of the malls if necessary)

i was located during one year near cosy beach and there is no public toilet in the area

 

[VBF]

3 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

The Chinese have to go somewhere...

I hear Syria's nice this time of year!

[jimmybcool]

10 hours ago, crobe said:

I am sure you are more interested in this area, and I have also spent a few trips in Angeles, but it is difficult to find the same mix of golf, beer and hookers as you have around here.

Further afield I was once sailing with friends around Spain and we put into Fuengirola, halfway between Torremolinos and Marbella, just as they were having their "beer party" weekend - ended up in a lot of drinking with a golf group from Cork, and there were girls around...

One of the best couple of days I have had

I think the reality is a man that wants to pay for sex can find it anywhere.  But combining it with an out in the open and fun search with other guys in a party mode and golf - I know no where else like it.  Sounds like Spain was a hoot at one time.

 

 

[tropo]

9 hours ago, newnative said:

      I personally find nothing wrong with it, too.  Pattaya will likely be a popular 'male entertainment/sex destination' well into the future.  It wasn't a problem for me when I moved here 10 years ago and is not a problem now.   It's certainly an important tourist element.  The point I try to make is that Pattaya is also becoming popular with other tourist elements.  And, yes, even families--who are starting to be seen in increasing numbers in Jomtien, Cosy Beach, Pratamnak, Wong Amat/Naklua, and other areas. 

     Obviously, you don't get a brand new Jomtien Hospital, a Terminal 21, a new Audi dealership to join BMW and Mercedes, and lots of new upscale hotels, condos, shopping, and restaurants along with many other new things solely on the trade of sex tourists.  Just as an aside, most tourists don't buy an Audi to take home in their suitcases so Pattaya, itself, apparently is growing enough in permanent residents to attract Audi, and most other major auto brands available in Thailand.

      But, try to say that Pattaya is attracting more than sex tourists and you will be told repeatedly and in no uncertain terms to go have your head examined.   After all, all Pattaya has on offer if you listen to some is a 'dirty beach'--mentioned several times by posters in just this thread.  (Which begs the question as to why so many people are clamoring for the beach to be re-opened if it is so awful.  Curious.)

     Recently, not having learned my lesson, I even dropped into the conversation the preposterous notion that some wealthy Bangkok people actually have getaway Pattaya condos--giving a number of examples of usually smaller, discreet, direct beachfront condo projects tucked away out of sight here and there with Bangkok owners.  I also mentioned that I had lived in a small Wong Amat condo project that had many Bangkok owners.  Result?  Abject disbelief.  And, now I am off to get my head examined.  

You summed it up really well. What remains to be seen is whether the sex industry will recover. If it doesn't, then Pattaya will become just another seaside resort. How many International tourists will want to come is anyone's guess, but I suspect that if the sex tourism element declines or disappears, accommodation will become more expensive across the board. The value of accommodation has always been a big factor in Pattaya's success, due to an oversupply of it. I don't think the sex industry will recover, post-covid. As noted by many people on here, it was already in steep decline pre-covid. It might become a sideshow in the LK Metro/Soi Buakhao areas, catering to a diminishing number of expats.

Edited May 20, 2020 by tropo

[tropo]

21 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

I think the reality is a man that wants to pay for sex can find it anywhere.  But combining it with an out in the open and fun search with other guys in a party mode and golf - I know no where else like it.  Sounds like Spain was a hoot at one time.

I think the age of social media is one of the reasons the bar industry has experienced a steep decline. Once upon a time, some time in the 1990's a bar girl didn't have a cell phone and to find customers she had to work in a bar. Cell phone internet capability didn't take off until the mid to late 2000's, after the first iPhone hit the market mid-2007, around about the time Facebook was starting to emerge. It's a whole new world now, and it is changing fast.

[newnative]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

You summed it up really well. What remains to be seen is whether the sex industry will recover. If it doesn't, then Pattaya will become just another seaside resort. How many International tourists will want to come is anyone's guess, but I suspect that if the sex tourism element declines or disappears, accommodation will become more expensive across the board. The value of accommodation has always been a big factor in Pattaya's success, due to an oversupply of it. I don't think the sex industry will recover, post-covid. As noted by many people on here, it was already in steep decline pre-covid. It might become a sideshow in the LK Metro/Soi Buakhao areas, catering to a diminishing number of expats.

      I don't see the 'sex industry' disappearing anytime soon.  The western sex tourists may be diminishing but their numbers are being somewhat replaced by men from Asian countries, the Middle East, and India.  Supply and demand will take care of the number of bars and go-gos Pattaya will end up with and I think it will continue to be marginalized to certain areas of town.  

      I do see Pattaya becoming more and more of a regular seaside city, with a rakish element for those who want it.  The new, fancy hotels in north Pattaya, Wong Amat, Naklua, and other areas were attracting more regular tourists, mostly Asian, than sex tourists.  Some with tours but many also independent travelers and families.  I think this trend will continue as international travel slowly resumes.  Pattaya is also attracting more domestic visits, especially from Bangkok folks, and this should also continue as Pattaya's reputation and what it has to offer continues to evolve.

[tropo]

10 minutes ago, newnative said:

      I don't see the 'sex industry' disappearing anytime soon.  The western sex tourists may be diminishing but their numbers are being somewhat replaced by men from Asian countries, the Middle East, and India.  Supply and demand will take care of the number of bars and go-gos Pattaya will end up with and I think it will continue to be marginalized to certain areas of town.  

      I do see Pattaya becoming more and more of a regular seaside city, with a rakish element for those who want it.  The new, fancy hotels in north Pattaya, Wong Amat, Naklua, and other areas were attracting more regular tourists, mostly Asian, than sex tourists.  Some with tours but many also independent travelers and families.  I think this trend will continue as international travel slowly resumes.  Pattaya is also attracting more domestic visits, especially from Bangkok folks, and this should also continue as Pattaya's reputation and what it has to offer continues to evolve.

I'd say most towns and cities on earth have a sex industry of some type, so there will be one, but it won't be anywhere near what it used to be. Lest you forget, it was already in rapid decline in Pattaya before the outbreak. How long will it take for sex tourists to return. How long can the existing bars and gogos hold on while waiting for their return?

 

It's a classic chicken and egg situation. Without the tourists the bars can't open and without the bars, the tourists won't come... We're already heard that the bar industry will have to wait a long time before they are even allowed to open. They will be the very last to get the green light.

Edited May 21, 2020 by tropo

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

You summed it up really well. What remains to be seen is whether the sex industry will recover. If it doesn't, then Pattaya will become just another seaside resort. How many International tourists will want to come is anyone's guess, but I suspect that if the sex tourism element declines or disappears, accommodation will become more expensive across the board. The value of accommodation has always been a big factor in Pattaya's success, due to an oversupply of it. I don't think the sex industry will recover, post-covid. As noted by many people on here, it was already in steep decline pre-covid. It might become a sideshow in the LK Metro/Soi Buakhao areas, catering to a diminishing number of expats.

Until the girls have viable alternatives to sex work it will continue in Thailand for the foreseeable future. They don't need bars, they can freelance online easy enough

[kingdong]

40 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Until the girls have viable alternatives to sex work it will continue in Thailand for the foreseeable future. They don't need bars, they can freelance online easy enough

 

40 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Until the girls have viable alternatives to sex work it will continue in Thailand for the foreseeable future. They don't need bars, they can freelance online easy enough

Unfortunately there's a number of former bergirls who are now getting "sponsored" so they,'re not that bothered about being b/f ed preferring to ponce lady drinks.

[scubascuba3]

34 minutes ago, kingdong said:

 

Unfortunately there's a number of former bergirls who are now getting "sponsored" so they,'re not that bothered about being b/f ed preferring to ponce lady drinks.

Yes many girls get sponsored for a while at least, I'm glad they do especially now

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Until the girls have viable alternatives to sex work it will continue in Thailand for the foreseeable future. They don't need bars, they can freelance online easy enough

Yeah, all over the world girls only accept sex work because they have no other viable alternatives.

 

But our official position must be supportive of fewer alternatives, the way it was when the great Golden Egg Layers were in control of economic prosperity. We don't like it when the price to employ a sex worker rises partly because girls do have so many more alternatives now that they didn't before. And many of those are generated in Pattaya by domestic and "newer" international tourism.

[Silent Tiger]

15 hours ago, tropo said:

I think the age of social media is one of the reasons the bar industry has experienced a steep decline. Once upon a time, some time in the 1990's a bar girl didn't have a cell phone and to find customers she had to work in a bar. Cell phone internet capability didn't take off until the mid to late 2000's, after the first iPhone hit the market mid-2007, around about the time Facebook was starting to emerge. It's a whole new world now, and it is changing fast.

I think you have hit the nail on the head ???? 

[Silent Tiger]

On 5/19/2020 at 11:03 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Was he talking about the other Nirun residents?

Possible m8 some sad sky divers in them condos !!! 

[kingdong]

11 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yes many girls get sponsored for a while at least, I'm glad they do especially now

I don,t,treat ,em mean to keep them keen.

[torturedsole]

5 hours ago, kingdong said:

I don,t,treat ,em mean to keep them keen.

In fairness, you replied to a post that was advocating provision for people worse off than ourselves.  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/20/2020 at 5:50 PM, hotandsticky said:

Leaver, I recall the days of standing at the bus stop in the 1980's, discussing with the neighbour, how much the 'equity' in our houses had risen. Something of a different conversation when the recession hit. Equity is only a positive or negative when assets are/have to be realised.

One thing I remember well during the late 80s was the woman that had been crowing muchly about how well she was doing on the stock market, absolutely distraught because it had turned to poo. Seems stocks go up in value and also down.

I've always been one for buying stuff that is actually useful and not trying to compete with rich people that always win at the expense of the little person. It's also worth doing a job that isn't affected by such as the stock market.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Until the girls have viable alternatives to sex work it will continue in Thailand for the foreseeable future. They don't need bars, they can freelance online easy enough

The girls have always had alternatives to sex work, but none so profitable and so easy to do.

 

However, freelancing depends on customers actually being in the same vicinity and there's something of a shortage of mongers in LOS now.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

I do see Pattaya becoming more and more of a regular seaside city, with a rakish element for those who want it. 

Sounds like Hua Hin. All Pattaya needs is horses pooing on the beach to complete the picture. Pattaya has a better beach than Hua Hin.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/20/2020 at 11:33 PM, BritManToo said:

Been to both.

Siem Reap, Phnom Penh and Saigon and maybe Vung Tau beat Pattaya in nearly every area.

Also Barretto and Angeles.

In those places is it possible to have a temporary GF for a couple of weeks at comparable prices as Pattaya?

That was where Pattaya won in my book.

I never had any interest in Soi 6 type short time shennanigans.