SURVEY: Thai Airways -- Save it or let it go?

[Scott]

The Thai government has agreed to assist Thai Airways with a 54 billion baht bailout and a further 80 billion baht recovery loan.   In the past Thai Airways has required government help.   In your opinion which of the following options best describes your opinion on the matter.  

 

Please feel free to leave a comment.  

 

Topic running here:  

 

[klauskunkel]

Thai Airways is dead. Long live Nok Air.

[VocalNeal]

Complete reshuffle. Stop giving hiso shareholder free flights?

[uli65]

shutdown this horrible airline forever

[BritManToo]

Wouldn't it be better to just let it go and buy a couple of learjets to truck the important people and their families around for free.

[pixelaoffy]

Sums up Thailand that has this b****t loss of face that can't let Thai airways collapse , an airline with 'Thai' in the name can't be seen to fail , so it continues to pump billions down the drain in something that is a total failure ! People's lives in the country are being destroyed by emergency measures and this squalid junta lead gov have no qualms about throwing money down the drain  it doesn't have to this pathetic airline! This airline was doomed even before the world airline crisis struck !

Edited May 10, 2020 by pixelaoffy

[crobe]

Here is the 10-point plan to save Thai

1) The government to pass a law requiring its 51% in the carrier to be sold within 3 years - prior to the next general election

2) A new management team and board of directors with experience in aviation and turnarounds to be appointed, no political appointees, no air force appointees. Strict performance criteria on new team.

3) New Thai to concentrate on long-haul international routes only (3 hours plus) - short haul intra-ASEAN routes to be sold off

4) LCC Thai Smile to be sold off - as this mostly operates out of Don Mueang it is not even a feeder for Thai

5) Catering division to be sold off

6) No free trips, discounts or other benefits for government officers or other "friends". Thai government travel procurement can receive reduced business class fares based on a commercial agreement for bulk purchase - most countries do this.

7) Reduction in workforce to benchmark against comparable airlines i.e. SIA

8 MRO investment at U-Tapao to be scrapped - Airbus already pulled out of this

9) Existing fleet sold or converted to cargo/leaseback - new efficient planes leased

10) Fares to be benchmarked and made competitive - i.e. on codeshare routes - new algorithms for capacity planning

 

 

[BritManToo]

Just now, crobe said:

1) The government to pass a law requiring its 51% in the carrier to be sold within 3 years - prior to the next general election

You think there'll be another election?

[finnsk]

Actually a lot of countries subsidizes their old flightcompagnies, even they are not able to run a flight buisness in free competition with the younger "low" price compagnies.

 

I do not understand why taxmoney is going to be wasted in bad managed old flightcompagnies.

[bert bloggs]

as my nephew is a steward in business class there i  hope they survive , but on another level ,i dont rate them,lol

[Misterwhisper]

Thai Airways has proven time and again to be a bottomless money pit that over the decades had to be repeatedly fed by the government with huge amounts of taxpayer money. Yet Thailand stubbornly holds on to it a a "national airline" for several reason; and few of them are sound.

 

Right at the top of course stands that wretched, misguided "image", as well as false pride. What's there to be proud about a grossly over-blown, inefficiently managed state company that makes nothing but but red figures?

 

Then of course there is the fact that way too many people personally profit from Thai Airways. It all starts with top management staffed by incompetents who only got their posts as a sort of reward for licking boot, pocketing unreasonably huge salaries. And not to forget the misguided policy - impossible in a private corporation - of ferrying around bigwigs and their entire extended families for free whenever they demand it. That can't be good for the balance sheets.

 

Thailand would lose absolutely nothing if Thai Airways were scrapped -- except some "face".

 

Belgium's national airline Sabena was dissolved a couple of decades ago. And look! Belgium is still here, and in fact doing rather well without a national carrier.

 

Then there was Hungary's flag carrier, Malev, which likewise was scrapped by the country's government due to its unprofitability. And look! Hungary still exists despite having no national carrier! And yes, travelers can still reach Budapest rather comfortably from virtually every corner of the world.

 

A few posts up, "crobe" formulated a quite sensible rescue plan for the airline. But... it is going to fail because several of his points would not go down all too well due to their impact on the vested interests of certain leeches groups affected by such measures.         

[pixelaoffy]

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

as my nephew is a steward in business class there i  hope they survive , but on another level ,i dont rate them,lol

Hope they survive? Its a dead business and only "surviving" because its the national airline with the name "thai" on the side of the junk!

[Bluetongue]

All those arguments are mostly true, although some I feel are a bit harsh loosely based probably on the TVF phenomena of many contributors abhorring the Thai way, which may or may not be good for the country, which is theirs. Mostly they would rather change the place to a boring miserable copy of their own boring miserable countries and much of the hatred probably comes from their bitter experiences and losses to Thai females. Plus their innate superiority and knowledge of the world.

 

The bottom line is they still fill planes up. I think the problems are up at the management level obviously. For me as a regular traveller to, and now resident of the place, many times over 30 years they have often been the only sensible option for me to use. I cant stand Don Muang anyway so wouldn't put myself out to go that way. My experiences on other airlines are no better and in some cases worse, Air Asia for instance a stewardess spending the entire flight in the cockpit, stopovers etc, nah give me a direct flight anytime. I understand people who fly more often may be more choosy and have more experiences with different carriers but thats my two bob's worth.

[eyup]

Basket case.! Ditch them! but of course they won't. 

[PatOngo]

Save it or let it go?

Up to them!

[RJRS1301]

They need to totally revamp the governance structure, bring in non affiliated Commercial and Financial Managers,Operation Mangers and Technical Managers  to do the job properly, streamline all aspects of its operation, and give the new managers and directors a five year support plan. 

Cease the freeloading, and improve the service.

 

[White Christmas13]

4 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

Thai Airways is dead. Long live Nok Air.

Does Nok Air fly to Perth non stop?

[Virt]

I don't get the hate towards Thai Airways.

 

Flew with them tons of times and it's nice they are flying Copenhagen - Bangkok with no annoying between landings.

Only had 1 or two times where the service was not up to their usual service, but overall very happy to fly with them.

 

[notmyself]

3 hours ago, crobe said:

Here is the 10-point plan to save Thai

1) The government to pass a law requiring its 51% in the carrier to be sold within 3 years - prior to the next general election

2) A new management team and board of directors with experience in aviation and turnarounds to be appointed, no political appointees, no air force appointees. Strict performance criteria on new team.

3) New Thai to concentrate on long-haul international routes only (3 hours plus) - short haul intra-ASEAN routes to be sold off

4) LCC Thai Smile to be sold off - as this mostly operates out of Don Mueang it is not even a feeder for Thai

5) Catering division to be sold off

6) No free trips, discounts or other benefits for government officers or other "friends". Thai government travel procurement can receive reduced business class fares based on a commercial agreement for bulk purchase - most countries do this.

7) Reduction in workforce to benchmark against comparable airlines i.e. SIA

8 MRO investment at U-Tapao to be scrapped - Airbus already pulled out of this

9) Existing fleet sold or converted to cargo/leaseback - new efficient planes leased

10) Fares to be benchmarked and made competitive - i.e. on codeshare routes - new algorithms for capacity planning

 

 

 

I read this post then went off to do a few things. Nothing serious. Then I came back and read it again... Great plan.

I've always considered it rather sad about Thai and its status as a/the national airline. The lack of pride... of being representative of the Kingdom and it's people is seemingly not subject to same unwritten law of saving face at any cost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sitti]

I would like to have THAI keep flying. Not only they are the most convenient for departure from BKK, their services on the ground and in the air are far superior to western airlines. Last time I flew BA first class, not only the seat was dirty but FA had some attitude. Maybe she had a bad day or something but very unprofessional of her to behave in such way while serving the passengers.

Edited May 10, 2020 by sitti

[ThailandRyan]

I would hate to be a stockholder in an airline that fails....left with selling the assets for pennies on the dollar to whomever, and possibly consolidating two airlines into one. 

[natway09]

I have used Thai where I can for any flight over 2 hours & I find them on the whole to be good.

What the restructuring plan has to do first is STOP all Government officials & family of employees getting free or very discounted flights.

Remember that idiot from the Government demanded to stay in 1st class even when sold to a paying passenger. This rubbish has to stop

Any Gov't Department eg:  The Dept of Foreign Affairs or The Office of the Prime Minister  using the airline gets billed in the normal 

manner & pays their bill from their own budget not just a "freebie"

This will save them millions.

NO EXCEPTIONS apart from normal FF

[Greg O]

Horribly mismanaged and too many fleet types for one thing. A380's ? Ya gotta be kidding 747,777,787, A350,  320 etc...The logistics and duplication of parts and spares is completely illogical and a logistical nightmare. Nothing is common between those fleet types. It seems they will order anything (some incentives may be involved). One fleet type that will operate efficiently on all routes albeit reduction in classes of service would greatly simplify maintenance planning, material and spares support , Crew training and qualification which is a huge expense in itself. Emirates is a classic example they are dumping the 380s as additional 777's arrive which will leave them with a single fleet type ( with variants ) but common crew and maintenance training saves hundreds of millions of dollars a year....

[kingstonkid]

4 hours ago, crobe said:

Here is the 10-point plan to save Thai

1) The government to pass a law requiring its 51% in the carrier to be sold within 3 years - prior to the next general election

2) A new management team and board of directors with experience in aviation and turnarounds to be appointed, no political appointees, no air force appointees. Strict performance criteria on new team.

3) New Thai to concentrate on long-haul international routes only (3 hours plus) - short haul intra-ASEAN routes to be sold off

4) LCC Thai Smile to be sold off - as this mostly operates out of Don Mueang it is not even a feeder for Thai

5) Catering division to be sold off

6) No free trips, discounts or other benefits for government officers or other "friends". Thai government travel procurement can receive reduced business class fares based on a commercial agreement for bulk purchase - most countries do this.

7) Reduction in workforce to benchmark against comparable airlines i.e. SIA

8 MRO investment at U-Tapao to be scrapped - Airbus already pulled out of this

9) Existing fleet sold or converted to cargo/leaseback - new efficient planes leased

10) Fares to be benchmarked and made competitive - i.e. on codeshare routes - new algorithms for capacity planning

 

 

We had the same issue with AIRCANADA.  Your solution is good but it needs a few tweaks.

Sell all but 25% of the stock that way if there is a need for assistance it is there.

Keep the current planes until things are running in the blue or the planes are no longer cost efficient.

Sell some of the real estate assets there are a lot of buildings that THAI owns that are not needed.

The management team should have minimal aviation people and more business people that know how to manage a business.

It would not be a bad idea to allow Thai staff to purchase the shares.  Then they have a reason for ensuring that the company succeeds.

My personal belief is that a company like PWC should be hired to go through the complete books as well as the day to day operations of all sections.  

[OKF]

This airline is a continous money pit and it will not change. In economicsl terms it is bankrupt (for a long time). Thai ppl know it and do not like it. This 10 point plan looks fine to me but unrealistic when you look behind and inside this airline. There is reasons that cannot be talked here so get brain in gear. They still fly Germany, why is this, well think about it. Therefore all further discussion is useless. Nothing will change. 

 

Personally I not fly with them due to the safety rankings that never were good but get worse for the past years and also I am not willed to support that system.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by OKF

[norfolkandchance]

Let them get me home first.

[bkk6060]

It does not have a good reputation for several reasons.

I say either let it go under or rename it, new logos etc, restructure the entire business plan and management staff.

They do have some decent routes and times they fly it would be a shame to lose those.

[Boomer6969]

Frakking "Flag Carriers"! Just another expression of the National "small appendage" syndrome. Just forget it and get on with life. 

[wotsdermatter]

5 hours ago, crobe said:

Catering division to be sold off

Used to fly many airlines from BKK using Gateway Gourmet for catering services which were far superior to anything Thai catering provided.  Don`t know what happened to their BKK location but have not seen them as they seem to have moved location from near to where I live in Bang Khen/Lak Si.  Have not flown Thai for years and will maintain that in the coming years.

'nuf sed.

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

Frakking "Flag Carriers"! Just another expression of the National "small appendage" syndrome. Just forget it and get on with life. 

an expert on the Thai appendage it seems