Thai Airways ponders bankruptcy as it enters rehab

[Blumpie]

Oh wow why were they losing so much money last year?  They should have been making money.  

As someone smarter than me said the other day "my face, my face!!".  

[dunroaming]

10 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

The only answer is for the airline to be sold to an experienced foreign group. They’d turn it around within a year and it would become profitable. 
 

Of course, that would never happen as it would it would expose the systematic corruption and cronyism rooted in the airline, which no sensible business group would tolerate and immediately set out ending. 
 

Plus, the loss of face would be too much to bear to have foreigners running their national airline.

Lots of ponderable outcomes when it comes to Thai Airways.  As long as they have a Thai name as CEO then it is possible to sell it on.  The CEO position is usually for the puppets anyway.  Maybe they should sell it for 1 baht to Thaksin and then his Arab chums could bail it out.  They tend to be quite good at airlines.  

 

Then again you need to look at how Thai operates.  Are the majority of their planes owned or leased?  If leased then it would be easier to downsize, dumping the less profitable routes.  If they own the whole fleet then it is more difficult and as it is probable that a lot of smaller airlines are going to collapse due to the lockdowns, there will be difficulties selling the planes on.

 

Then you have to consider the new expanding regions to attract tourists and businesses from.  It would seem obvious that China and India would be at the forefront there.  Long before CoVid-19 the tourism landscape was changing for Thailand with China soaring ahead as far as footfall was concerned..  There will always be some call for western tourists but I think that will only expand in the high end five star resorts.  Good for exclusive resorts but not for general tourism.   Back packers never improved the economy and there are much better places to explore these days.

 

Truth is, nobody can safely predict the future for Thailand as there are so many factors that are unknown.  All of that makes Thai Airways future so unpredictable as well.

[Chickenegg]

I think Thai government made the decision to let Thai airways file bankruptcy.

 

https://asianaviation.com/report-thai-airways-to-file-bankruptcy/

[Andrew65]

15 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Lots of ponderable outcomes when it comes to Thai Airways.  As long as they have a Thai name as CEO then it is possible to sell it on.  The CEO position is usually for the puppets anyway.  Maybe they should sell it for 1 baht to Thaksin and then his Arab chums could bail it out.  They tend to be quite good at airlines.  

 

Then again you need to look at how Thai operates.  Are the majority of their planes owned or leased?  If leased then it would be easier to downsize, dumping the less profitable routes.  If they own the whole fleet then it is more difficult and as it is probable that a lot of smaller airlines are going to collapse due to the lockdowns, there will be difficulties selling the planes on.

 

Then you have to consider the new expanding regions to attract tourists and businesses from.  It would seem obvious that China and India would be at the forefront there.  Long before CoVid-19 the tourism landscape was changing for Thailand with China soaring ahead as far as footfall was concerned..  There will always be some call for western tourists but I think that will only expand in the high end five star resorts.  Good for exclusive resorts but not for general tourism.   Back packers never improved the economy and there are much better places to explore these days.

 

Truth is, nobody can safely predict the future for Thailand as there are so many factors that are unknown.  All of that makes Thai Airways future so unpredictable as well.

Their best bet might be for a hedge fund to buy it. Who else is gonna be up for buying a fairly big airline now? They would probably want control of the company with foreign former executives.

About time Thai were dragged kicking & screaming into the 21st century anyway.

(I guess Malaysian Airlines might be in a similar situation, they were looking wobbly anyway).

Edited May 18, 2020 by Andrew65

[purcho]

8 hours ago, globalspark said:

We all know there are too many mouths in the trough.Need an outsider as somebody has already mentioned example Alan Joice at Qantas.Use to be a top airline but it has been evident on my last few trips that they are cutting corners in the cabin service,God only knows what is going on with maintenance.

Very true . I have been a loyal passenger since 2004 but over the past 5 - 8 years the service has slowly deteriorated to the point that I will look at other options each time I fly now or in the future . Cabin service is a shadow of what it was 10-15 years ago, with the standard of food dropping markedly . To make a point .... salt and pepper have not been served with meals on the international flights that I have taken from 2017 till now , I have had to request them . ( yes those small packets of S & P ) One round of drinks served with main meals , then you have to go to the galley to get additional drinks . I dont know if this has been the same on other International routes but this has been the case from BNE to BKK and same on return . It was a good airline once upon a time .

[dunroaming]

40 minutes ago, purcho said:

Very true . I have been a loyal passenger since 2004 but over the past 5 - 8 years the service has slowly deteriorated to the point that I will look at other options each time I fly now or in the future . Cabin service is a shadow of what it was 10-15 years ago, with the standard of food dropping markedly . To make a point .... salt and pepper have not been served with meals on the international flights that I have taken from 2017 till now , I have had to request them . ( yes those small packets of S & P ) One round of drinks served with main meals , then you have to go to the galley to get additional drinks . I dont know if this has been the same on other International routes but this has been the case from BNE to BKK and same on return . It was a good airline once upon a time .

Totally agree.  My wife and I both fly EVA from the UK (we tend to travel to Thailand at different times) which we both find better than Thai.  Better food, better service and generous legroom!

[scubascuba3]

i stopped using Thai Airways from the UK. Emirates, Eva and Qatar were all better and cheaper, it's as simple as that. Let them go under

[dunroaming]

52 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Their best bet might be for a hedge fund to buy it. Who else is gonna be up for buying a fairly big airline now? They would probably want control of the company with foreign former executives.

About time Thai were dragged kicking & screaming into the 21st century anyway.

(I guess Malaysian Airlines might be in a similar situation, they were looking wobbly anyway).

Agreed.  Malaysian is looking dodgy, what about Air Asia?

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

Krung Thai is for sure on the hook for a lot of this debt,

Of course, they are a state owned bank.

 

They also own two very large chunks of the 49% of the shares not held by the state.

 

Whatever happens with this bankruptcy and "restructuring" you can be certain the game will continue as before. The people who "own Thailand" will keep their airline, the taxpayers will (continue to) pay, and the creditors will lose their money.

[Mr Meeseeks]

13 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

The only answer is for the airline to be sold to an experienced foreign group. They’d turn it around within a year and it would become profitable. 
 

Of course, that would never happen as it would it would expose the systematic corruption and cronyism rooted in the airline, which no sensible business group would tolerate and immediately set out ending. 
 

Plus, the loss of face would be too much to bear to have foreigners running their national airline.

The clever Thai companies, and nearly all foreign owned ones have foreign executives either running them or advising. 

 

Outside of the usual monopolistic and corrupt practices most Thai entities are lost. 

 

Always exceptions to the rule though, but Thai Airways certainly ain't one.

[impulse]

10 hours ago, globalspark said:

We all know there are too many mouths in the trough.Need an outsider as somebody has already mentioned example Alan Joice at Qantas.Use to be a top airline but it has been evident on my last few trips that they are cutting corners in the cabin service,God only knows what is going on with maintenance.

 

As I recall from looking at the numbers, his claim to fame was the good fortune of becoming CEO just as fuel prices dropped by about 50%.  Other than the fuel cost line item, Qantas was doing no better than before his tenure.  In fact, they slipped on many other metrics, masked by the enormity of their fuel savings, allowing top management to get their bonuses through no real benefit of their own efforts.  It's good to be lucky...

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by impulse

[mal2018]

13 hours ago, keithkarmann said:

Still waiting for my refund 4 weeks now.

4 weeks not long. I had domestic flights with ThaiSmile booked for 28th March, still no refund  but got email confirming a refund to my credit card in no less than 45 days ????????????

[Andrew65]

59 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Agreed.  Malaysian is looking dodgy, what about Air Asia?

...the only thing I know about Air Asia is they have the best looking stewardesses!????

Flown them quite a lot on visa-runs, OK.

[fruitman]

12 hours ago, Pinot said:

This isn't promising to hear from a business that owes me B40000 for cancelled flights. I imagine my equity position is somewhere near the bottom of the dumpster

 

Also if you paid by creditcard?

[kevmin13]

I wonder why they are in trouble.  It always seems when looking for tickets they are normally one of the more expensive flights.  I used to look for using them in 2006 and 2007 but now they are overpriced.  Heck Delta and Korean Air are less expensive than Thai Airways.  They are usually several hundred dollars more.  For the extra money that is hotel fares or extra massages.  Lol

[NoComment]

I wonder how much the Chinese will invest as a "goodwill" gesture as a way of taking over in the future.

[Jack P]

Government buys 51% of airline.... government bans their flights. Doh.

[Banana7]

Thai airline bonds and debentures are rated higher than Thailand's sovereign debt by TRIS, debt rating agency in Thailand. That in itself is remarkable.

 

There is just too much BS surrounding the airline, and its finances and its management. Best for the government to deny all financial support and let management find financing elsewhere. Fire entire board of Directors, all executives, all vice-presidents, CEO and all that reported to the top 3 levels, at a minimum.

 

DRAIN THE SWAMP!

Edited May 18, 2020 by Banana7

[torturedsole]

20 hours ago, OnTheRun said:

They should bite the bullet and appoint a non Thai as CEO. I'd suggest they approach the Japanese guy who turned JAL around, he worked miracles there.

JAL is up there with the best in recent times.  

 

Just not sure an honourable non-Thai CEO would last that long with the basket case that's TG.  

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Lots of ponderable outcomes when it comes to Thai Airways.  As long as they have a Thai name as CEO then it is possible to sell it on.  The CEO position is usually for the puppets anyway.  Maybe they should sell it for 1 baht to Thaksin and then his Arab chums could bail it out.  They tend to be quite good at airlines.  

 

Then again you need to look at how Thai operates.  Are the majority of their planes owned or leased?  If leased then it would be easier to downsize, dumping the less profitable routes.  If they own the whole fleet then it is more difficult and as it is probable that a lot of smaller airlines are going to collapse due to the lockdowns, there will be difficulties selling the planes on.

 

Then you have to consider the new expanding regions to attract tourists and businesses from.  It would seem obvious that China and India would be at the forefront there.  Long before CoVid-19 the tourism landscape was changing for Thailand with China soaring ahead as far as footfall was concerned..  There will always be some call for western tourists but I think that will only expand in the high end five star resorts.  Good for exclusive resorts but not for general tourism.   Back packers never improved the economy and there are much better places to explore these days.

 

Truth is, nobody can safely predict the future for Thailand as there are so many factors that are unknown.  All of that makes Thai Airways future so unpredictable as well.

 

IMHO the gov't will never allow the airline to be sold. Nobody in Thailand could afford to buy the whole thing, even a syndicate couldn't afford to buy it in it's current state, let along want to buy it.

 

So a buyer would have to be an offshore enterprise, the gov't would never allow this scenario because of loss of face for Thailand and loss of face for the staff.

 

Foreigners potential buyers would be well aware that the current management are incapable and are hobbled by the gov't and hobbled by Thai hi-so society who would want the freebies to continue, therefore they would lose interest in buying. And foreign potential buyers would be well aware that hi-so folks would still try to interfere, and succeed because of intimidation and fear. 

 

If foreigners did buy they would be well aware they need to sack most management staff and install their own senior and mid level managers from offshore. This would incur the wrath of the current staff and the Thai Labor Union and suffer large scale debilitating lack of cooperation and interference.  

 

In this scenario, buying Thai would be a multi billion $ price tag, even at a fire sale price. Any buyer would want to quickly see large revenues and at least small margins (at least enough to avoid cash flow problems).

 

Plus globally it's an industry in trouble, even Singapore Airlines and others needing to make unprecedented changes to survive.

 

Why would any buyer buy Thai knowing there are massive problems already on the table all seriously affecting revenues and margins. Plus all the problems of old operating aircraft, lack of modern entertainment systems, and very large number of aircraft parked and for sale, all needing large amounts of monthly cash for dead aircraft parking fees, maintenance and more.  

 

Therefore not surprising that the gov't is keen for a court installed rehabilitation plan controlled by the Thai government.

 

But even under a court ordered rehab. plan can/will the current management follow/implement the rehab. plan? Big question, seems very doubtful. 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by scorecard

[Stargeezr]

Quit pondering, just do it. Bankruptcy is the best for this airline.

  Then fire the entire management from top to bottom. Let the

shareholders howl.  Make tomorrow a New Day, for a new airline.

get on with it.

Geezer

[heybuz]

15 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

They won't blame their cousins who they so look up to, that's for sure. Maybe they can blame the Italian Virus Strain. Or blame "Imported" Management Issues 

160 countries back Australian 

call for inquiry into virus including the European Union, China has threatened Australia with trade sanctions and has already blocked meat from a number of producers.

[Andycoops]

On 5/18/2020 at 5:11 AM, Andrew65 said:

The one thing with Thai is obviously the close relationship with Thailand's tourism sector, I couldn't see the Gvt letting it fail for that reason.

More tourists arrive on other airlines than arrive on Thai. 

It's time to let the corrupt suffer for their gross incompetence. 

[Nanaplaza666]

Talking about bankrupting an airline and having prayut and anutin in one sentence makes me wonder ??? What does anutin have to do with an airline company , ok he is government but a whole different appartment . Years of overpricing and corruption brought this company down on it's knees and into the ground . Why is everybody flying EVA , CHINA or whatever else airline for decades while they could have been doing these flights by themself if the price was better ????? The planes aren't of bad quality it's all about the pricing . They don't even have to fly from every european airport , people don't mind to take a train or whatever to the airport of wich they are flying from but their prices scare people into flying with other airlines . People already spend all their holliday money on holliday so they are trying to get the best price for a ticket . People are considering a worse seat for many hours to have more holliday spending money so i geuss and am almost sure if their prices where right a lot of people would have been flying with them . What's more nice to be greeted by friendly THAI staff and a good price and seat on your way to your THAILAND holliday getting the holliday feeling complete on your way there already . 

[Litlos]

On 5/18/2020 at 8:40 AM, baansgr said:

ChiThai or ChinThai Airways sounds good

Sino Thai or is that already used elsewhere?

 

Cheers

[Andrew65]

8 hours ago, Andycoops said:

More tourists arrive on other airlines than arrive on Thai. 

It's time to let the corrupt suffer for their gross incompetence. 

Yes, but having their own airline does mean that they have more freedom to fly where & when they want.

[mal2018]

On 5/18/2020 at 2:17 PM, mal2018 said:

4 weeks not long. I had domestic flights with ThaiSmile booked for 28th March, still no refund  but got email confirming a refund to my credit card in no less than 45 days ????????????

Priceless, I just got another email from them stating that they have extended my "travel vouchers" for an extra year. Standard atrocious English used in the translation ????

[brianthainess]

As smooth as a hessian sack.

[Straight8]

My preferred choice of airline flight to and from Australia & recently have been able to get very competitive pricing on tickets.

Pity its run by a bunch of half-wits with NFI....