Empty middle seat? Depends on which country you are flying in

[snoop1130]

Empty middle seat? Depends on which country you are flying in

By Jamie Freed, Stella Qiu and Anne Kauranen

 

FILE PHOTO - Rows of empty seats of an American Airline flight are seen, as coronavirus disease (COVID-19) disruption continues across the global industry, during a flight between Washington D.C. and Miami, in Washington, U.S., March 18, 2020. REUTERS/Carlos Barria

 

SYDNEY/BEIJING/HELSINKI (Reuters) - In Thailand, you cannot have food or water in flight and must wear a mask. In Malaysia and Indonesia, the plane needs to be half-empty. In the United States and Europe, it's not mandatory for airlines to leave the middle seat open.

 

Measures to stem the spread of coronavirus have changed how people travel, as Beijing resident Feng Xueli, 26, found when she took a domestic flight this month. The aircraft was full - allowed under the Chinese rules.

 

"We needed to wear a mask during the flight and there were PA announcements basically asking for our cooperation with these anti-virus measures put in place, which made me a bit nervous," Feng said. "You also need to go through a lot of temperature checks and security checks when you leave the airport."

 

Travellers, airlines and airports are grappling with a hodgepodge of rules put in place during the pandemic that will make flying different in almost every country.

 

"When flying restarts, you are already working against the clock. There is still a latent fear of travel," said Subhas Menon, head of the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines. "It's not going to be such a smooth passage when you travel because of all of the measures that are going to be introduced."

 

A little more than a year after uneven national responses to the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX, the industry is once again facing piecemeal regulation.

 

The last trigger for such widespread changes in the way airlines operate was the 2001 attacks in the United States, which ushered in new security measures.

 

"People globally have understood the security requirements that came after 9/11. We would like to see that kind of standardisation of protocols," said Boeing vice-president Mike Delaney, leader of Boeing's Confident Travel Initiative.

 

Onboard service is changing too. Business-class meals, once a selling point for premium carriers hiring celebrity chefs, have been reduced to pre-packaged items on carriers including Emirates, Air Canada and British Airways.

 

Automation is also increasing, as carriers such as Qantas Airways Ltd ask passengers to check in online to limit contact with staff and other fliers.

 

"More than ever, the industry will work towards the vision of an entirely mobile-enabled journey," said Sumesh Patel of technology provider SITA, which hopes to benefit from the trend.

 

EMPTY MIDDLE SEAT?

 

On the airplane, one of the biggest debates has been over whether middle seats should be empty.

 

That would limit airplanes to two-thirds of their normal capacity, not enough for most airlines to make a profit without increasing fares.

 

Afif Zakwan, 20, recently took a Malaysia Airlines domestic flight that was exempt from the requirement to fly half-empty.

 

He said he was comfortable being on a full domestic flight, but would not consider flying internationally for now.

 

"As more and more people travel for whatever reason, confidence and the power of word of mouth experiences will shape the... recovery," said Mayur Patel of data firm OAG Aviation.

 

An official at the Japan Civil Aviation Bureau said the issue of an open middle seat, which could create unfair advantages if applied unevenly, was "controversial".

 

"It's crucial that countries where flights depart coordinate their responses with countries where they arrive," said the official, who was not authorised to speak publicly.

 

Despite the call for common standards, some nations are applying their rules just to airlines registered in their country, while others are applying them to foreign carriers.

 

U.S. carriers are among those requiring passengers and crew to wear facial coverings, and have also endorsed temperature checks.

 

In Europe, airlines are largely resisting calls to leave the middle seat empty but have publicised other changes designed to reassure passengers.

 

"You have to remember an aircraft is not the natural place to do social-distancing, so you need to mitigate the health risks by other means, and facial masks are a good example of those means," Finnair Plc Chief Executive Topi Manner told Reuters.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-05-19

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

That would limit airplanes to two-thirds of their normal capacity, not enough for most airlines to make a profit without increasing fares.

So increase the fares. 

[bkk6060]

13 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

So increase the fares. 

Sure they will.

And, air travel will become a luxury for those that are fairly well off.

[Bluespunk]

24 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Sure they will.

And, air travel will become a luxury for those that are fairly well off.

As far as I’m concerned the less air traffic the better. 

[tribalfusion001]

6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

As far as I’m concerned the less air traffic the better. 

Would you prefer to live in the 19th century without aeroplanes and cars?

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Would you prefer to live in the 19th century without aeroplanes and cars?

Yes, but my preferences are not the topic here. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Cryingdick]

Have flights that can fill up and for those that are scared they can get a "premium" flight half full or even just buy the middle seat. So you can split the fares so people pay on a fear based system. Those most afraid obviously pay more. 

 

The reality is it will be back to normal eventually. If people still want to travel the world anyway. I do not care either way I can't see going overseas ever again and wish to explore my own country after being away several decades.

[northsouthdevide]

Social distancing on a long distance flight is totally futile. 

You can sit 1.5 or 5m away from the next passenger, but it doesn't stop you breathing the same recycled air for 10+ hours. 

Just look how quickly the virus spread around the globe in the first place, due to long haul flights and luxury sea cruises. 

I'm not looking forward to having to return to the UK, but I have to at some point. 

[silver sea]

 

Things certainly seemed to have changed on American Airlines 555

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8335441/Passenger-never-felt-unsafe-travelling-American-Airlines-flight-just-rows.html

Edited May 19, 2020 by silver sea

[bradiston]

I always arrive feeling like <deleted> after international flight, even short haul. Usually accompanied by a dose of whatever's going around. Last time in February to Manila and back from swampy. No checks in Thailand, but on arrival in Manila they had the gun out and a roped off section for suspects. I became convinced I'd contracted Covid in swampy and tried my damnedest to get test in ac. No chance!

[DefaultName]

How about insisting on long sleeves and long trousers/dresses to minimise skin contact?  That HAS to reduce the chance of infection - as well as being more pleasant for fellow (unconnected) travellers.

 

Me, I do this anyway, I'm fat and can get sweaty, so it's only fair to whoever sits next to me.

[Mick501]

14 hours ago, northsouthdevide said:

Social distancing on a long distance flight is totally futile. 

You can sit 1.5 or 5m away from the next passenger, but it doesn't stop you breathing the same recycled air for 10+ hours. 

Just look how quickly the virus spread around the globe in the first place, due to long haul flights and luxury sea cruises. 

I'm not looking forward to having to return to the UK, but I have to at some point. 

Silly.   Just stick your head out the window.

[kensawadee]

17 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

As far as I’m concerned the less air traffic the better. 

A very selfish and self-centered comment........ We will just have to take your comment with 'a grain of sand' considering where/who it comes from..... Many (many) of us need to fly.... 

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, kensawadee said:

A very selfish and self-centered comment........ We will just have to take your comment with 'a grain of sand' considering where/who it comes from..... Many (many) of us need to fly.... 

You need to fly, so you accuse someone else who cares about the planet of being selfish.

 

Sorry, you got it the wrong war around.

[Bluespunk]

13 minutes ago, kensawadee said:

A very selfish and self-centered comment........ We will just have to take your comment with 'a grain of sand' considering where/who it comes from..... Many (many) of us need to fly.... 

Sure you do. 
 

By you, I refer to you as a singular individual. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Jcord1]

15 hours ago, silver sea said:

 

Things certainly seemed to have changed on American Airlines 555

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8335441/Passenger-never-felt-unsafe-travelling-American-Airlines-flight-just-rows.html

 

15 hours ago, silver sea said:

 

Things certainly seemed to have changed on American Airlines 555

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8335441/Passenger-never-felt-unsafe-travelling-American-Airlines-flight-just-rows.html

Crowded subway and bus travel if perfectly fine though..

[natway09]

There are far too many flying anyway & in this day & age of electronics not a need.

Flying halfway around the world for an 8 day holiday are over except for the wealthy.

Increase the prices as needed. Low cost carriers will survive but they need to adapt to a smaller 

role as will all airlines

[Rimmer]

Baiting post removed

[Bluetongue]

I foresee a lot more arguments/incidents on flights especially those populated by TVF members

[tribalfusion001]

5 hours ago, natway09 said:

There are far too many flying anyway & in this day & age of electronics not a need.

Flying halfway around the world for an 8 day holiday are over except for the wealthy.

Increase the prices as needed. Low cost carriers will survive but they need to adapt to a smaller 

role as will all airlines

So only the rich can fly, the peasants stay at home, lovely, good job you don't run a country!

[Thomas J]

23 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

That would limit airplanes to two-thirds of their normal capacity, not enough for most airlines to make a profit without increasing fares.

Yep, 

 

Lets make sure that airlines either go bankrupt or raise their fares to the point that people can't fly.  That will sure stop the virus.  You think because the middle seat is open that "if" there is a virus it does not go through the airplane ventilation system?  You think it can not move from the row of seats in front or behind you?  Masks, hell this is a virus not a bacteria.  The masks may help it if you have the virus in not sneezing and spreading droplets to other people, but they are for all intents worthless in terms of preventing the inhalation of any virus.  

[sirineou]

This  "No middle seat " issue is a temporary one that will go away or not even be implemented  as this Covid 19 situation is shorted out  in the next few months. The only danger to cheap flying is IMO from airlines going out of business from the costs of this lock down, consolidations of flying routes, mergers, and decreased competition.   

[GinBoy2]

So I can't answer for American, but on the flights I service, Delta & United here are the rules we work with;

 

On regional jets with a 2x2 config we can only book the window seat, the aisle seat is blocked. On mainline all middle seats are blocked.

1st class cannot be booked above 50%

The only exception to people seating next to each other is 'if they belong together', in other words family members.

 

All turns are sanitized (basically we fog the aircraft with disinfectant and wipe down all arm rests and tray tables) before passengers can re-board and the flight departs.

 

All passengers and crew are required to wear a mask, in point of fact you can't even check in if you don't have a mask!

 

Thats the current state of US domestic air travel

Edited May 20, 2020 by GinBoy2

[pineapple01]

About time it was Expensive. Rif Raf ,Smelly Back Packers can afford to fly these days. Not On imo. Suit and Tie only should be the order of the Day and Children banned.

[JerseytoBKK]

38 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

So I can't answer for American, but on the flights I service, Delta & United here are the rules we work with;

 

On regional jets with a 2x2 config we can only book the window seat, the aisle seat is blocked. On mainline all middle seats are blocked.

1st class cannot be booked above 50%

The only exception to people seating next to each other is 'if they belong together', in other words family members.

 

All turns are sanitized (basically we fog the aircraft with disinfectant and wipe down all arm rests and tray tables) before passengers can re-board and the flight departs.

 

All passengers and crew are required to wear a mask, in point of fact you can't even check in if you don't have a mask!

 

Thats the current state of US domestic air travel

Those are not the rules United is using: https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/passengers-stunned-by-full-flights-despite-coronavirus-social-distancing/2270178/

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/05/11/viral-photo-crowded-united-flight-shows-potential-risk-flying-right-now/

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by JerseytoBKK

[GinBoy2]

2 minutes ago, JerseytoBKK said:

Those are not the rules United is using: https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/passengers-stunned-by-full-flights-despite-coronavirus-social-distancing/2270178/

 

 

Well I'm sorry what you think, but I'm just telling you what the rules on the ground are.

 

We follow what we're told to do, and if you want I'll post a picture of this morning's 9am flight to Denver after we've boarded it 

[from the home of CC]

I'll wait till they have wing seats..

[JerseytoBKK]

4 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well I'm sorry what you think, but I'm just telling you what the rules on the ground are.

 

We follow what we're told to do, and if you want I'll post a picture of this morning's 9am flight to Denver after we've boarded it 

Multiple reports of jammed flights. Maybe your location isn't experiencing the traffic other airports are seeing.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/05/11/viral-photo-crowded-united-flight-shows-potential-risk-flying-right-now/

 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

So I can't answer for American, but on the flights I service, Delta & United here are the rules we work with;

 

On regional jets with a 2x2 config we can only book the window seat, the aisle seat is blocked. On mainline all middle seats are blocked.

1st class cannot be booked above 50%

The only exception to people seating next to each other is 'if they belong together', in other words family members.

 

All turns are sanitized (basically we fog the aircraft with disinfectant and wipe down all arm rests and tray tables) before passengers can re-board and the flight departs.

 

All passengers and crew are required to wear a mask, in point of fact you can't even check in if you don't have a mask!

 

Thats the current state of US domestic air travel

Didn't you say similar very recently, only to be contradiced by recent photos from a United flight?

 

See JerseytoBKK's post as well, this was discussed here on TVF.

Edited May 20, 2020 by stevenl