Felling of British slave trader statue heats up simmering debate

[evadgib]

35 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s way past time for the British to learn the full story of their own history.

If you think you're about to deliver that sermon the position from which you're repeatedly sniping will first need to be fully explained...

Edited June 8, 2020 by evadgib

[baansgr]

31 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

He built many of the schools and hospitals and things in Bristol and helped to develop the place

Exactly, leftie bearded fascists have a blinkered view....they don't even know the true history of slavery...it's like banging your head against a wall with these dimwits...they now want a replacement statue of a black guy that was barely in Bristol and basically did sweet FA..but was awarded an OBE under Blair's facist regime on the sole basis of being black...

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, Andrew65 said:

It was actually illegal to keep slaves in England around this time.

From the mid 1700's there was talk of slavery being abolished in the British Empire, I believe this had at least a little bit to do with the revolution in the American colonies. Mr Washington was a slave owner, so he had a vested interest in it.

Yep the yanks are the bad guys, not the Brits.

[CorpusChristie]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I guess there is an off chance they thought ‘let’s celebrate a slave trader’ and add a plaque saying what an all round good chap he was.

I expect they were grateful for his financial contribution and they didnt really care where he got his money from 

[Andrew65]

Just now, tribalfusion001 said:

Yep the yanks are the bad guys, not the Brits.

Not at all, the 'yanks' were British subjects.

[evadgib]

Just now, Andrew65 said:

It was actually illegal to keep slaves in England around this time.

From the mid 1700's there was talk of slavery being abolished in the British Empire, I believe this had at least a little bit to do with the revolution in the American colonies. Mr Washington was a slave owner, so he had a vested interest in it.

British taxpayers were still paying the bill agreed in 1833 as recently as 2015 if info seen this morning proves to be factually correct.

[baansgr]

5 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Indeed...which is why they pulled the statue down. It belongs in a museum, to remind everyone of the atrocities that took place.

If you believe in reminding everyone of the atrocities....surely the likely place to have the statue is in public, where everyone can see it for free

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

I expect they were grateful for his financial contribution and they didnt really care where he got his money from 

But this is 2020 and those types of statues have no place in modern UK. I'm in neither camp, fairly neutral balanced view.

[Bruno123]

2 minutes ago, Susco said:

Better someone tells us which country in the world was never involved in slavery, that list will most likely be very short.

 

What happened hundreds of years ago, and was accepted at that time, should now not be an excuse to loot shops and start violence.

 

 

 

Are they doing it because of slavery or because of current discrimination?

 

 

[BillStrangeOgre]

3 minutes ago, Susco said:

Better someone tells us which country in the world was never involved in slavery, that list will most likely be very short.

 

What happened hundreds of years ago, and was accepted at that time, should now not be an excuse to loot shops and start violence.

 

 

Here, here! ????

But i don't think anyone is looting and starting violence because of what happened hundreds of years ago...more like a couple of weeks ago ????

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, Andrew65 said:

Not at all, the 'yanks' were British subjects.

You caught me out me there, well spotted ????

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

If you think you're about to deliver that sermon the position from which you're repeatedly sniping will first need to be fully explained...

Here’s the position.

 

The teaching of British history in British schools does not include the history of the abuses committed by the British across the British Empire.

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

But this is 2020 and those types of statues have no place in modern UK. I'm in neither camp, fairly neutral balanced view.

Its part if the towns history , removing them will not change history

[Susco]

1 minute ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

Here, here! ????

But i don't think anyone is looting and starting violence because of what happened hundreds of years ago...more like a couple of weeks ago ????

I said it in post #2 of this thread, and say it again. These protests have nothing to do with what happened 2 weeks ago, they use it only as an excuse

[baansgr]

4 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Are they doing it because of slavery or because of current discrimination?

 

 

With a 300 year time lapse...are the two connected?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

British taxpayers were still paying the bill agreed in 1833 as recently as 2015 if info seen this morning proves to be factually correct.

Link?

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Here’s the position.

 

The teaching of British history in British schools does not include the history of the abuses committed by the British across the British Empire.

Much of the Worlds history can be found in depth on the internet , school lessons are not so important these days .

   People can get educated online themselves

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Its part if the towns history , removing them will not change history

It doesn't change the history, put up some modern sculptures or a waterfall feature.

[BillStrangeOgre]

9 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Exactly, leftie bearded fascists have a blinkered view....they don't even know the true history of slavery...it's like banging your head against a wall with these dimwits...they now want a replacement statue of a black guy that was barely in Bristol and basically did sweet FA..but was awarded an OBE under Blair's facist regime on the sole basis of being black...

...true, but when you consider the vast fortune he made from such a terrible trade it's easy to understand why many feel he doesn't deserve a statue 

[impulse]

4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Its part if the towns history , removing them will not change history

 

So stick the statue in a museum where people can study it.  Not out in a public square so people can venerate it.

 

[CorpusChristie]

6 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Are they doing it because of slavery or because of current discrimination?

 

 

No, they just enjoy looting and rioting and fighting the police 

Any excuse will do 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Much of the Worlds history can be found in depth on the internet , school lessons are not so important these days .

   People can get educated online themselves

Right so let’s ignore what a nation chooses to teach and not tech it’s children.

[baansgr]

37 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Developed the place on the backs of torturing and enslaving people? Proud of that are you?

So I can rob your house, killing most of your family, but as long as I give 10% of the proceeds to an old people's home, it's ok? 

His profits from slavery were minimal compared to other trading...so maybe just remove a finger of the statue

[CorpusChristie]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Right so let’s ignore what a nation chooses to teach and not tech it’s children.

You cannot teach all 1500 years worth of history in history classes in school , 4 hours a week for two years

[Kadilo]

23 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Boris' spokes person dodged the question whether removing statues was good or bad, so expect it to continue.

What! So it wasn’t condemned. 
 

 

( shame the statue was) 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

So stick the statue in a museum where people can study it.  Not out in a public square so people can venerate it.

 

No toss it it the drink, like the bodies of slaves who died on board ships taking them across the Atlantic.

[tribalfusion001]

From what I saw of these protests yesterday, 8 hours of live streaming, saddo, but entertaining viewing. This was more an anti-government and anti fascist protest, lots of angry people chanting "<deleted> Boris" and other chants about Mark Duggan (2011 riots).

[BillStrangeOgre]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Here’s the position.

 

The teaching of British history in British schools does not include the history of the abuses committed by the British across the British Empire.

...you're wrong. I can remember learning about the 'slave triangle' in school, among other things but that stuck in my mind. Manufactured goods were taken from Bristol or Liverpool to West Africa, then exchanged for slaves. They were then packed into boats for a long journey to the New World where they were sold for a vast profit. Raw materials were then bought back to the UK and sold. Profit being made on each leg of the voyage.

I was a fifteen year old kid when i saw this old diagram of a Slaver packed with slaves and learnt about the inhuman conditions...it had quite an impact on my

Edited June 8, 2020 by BillStrangeOgre

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

You cannot teach all 1500 years worth of history in history classes in school , 4 hours a week for two years

I previously worked with a Muslim geologist who told me that he believed the world was about 1500 years old. That was an odd conversation.

 

But in relation to your point, I think we need to be more upfront about how our forefathers were involved in some very unpleasant things in the past. We should teach the ugly side of our country's history as well as its glories.  

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, BillStrangeOgre said:

...you're wrong. I can remember learning about the 'slave triangle' in school, among other things but that stuck in my mind. Manufactured goods were taken from Bristol or Liverpool to West Africa, then exchanged for slaves. They were then packed into boats for a long journey to the New World where they were sold for a vast profit. Raw materials were then bought back to the UK. I was a fifteen years old kid when i saw this old diagram of a Slaver packed with slaves and learnt about the inhuman conditions

So what’s your problem with a statue of a slave trader being thrown in the harbor?