August 1st - 'covid visa' ends, what next?

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, JHicks said:

I read that Vietnam was doing it based on nationality. Partial travel bans e.g. in Cambodia have been based on nationality as well. I'm hoping they'll let others in with a requirement to do 14 days' quarantine, but I'm not banking on that any time soon.

As yet, of course, there are no travel bubbles. When they are introduced, the intention should be to encourage travel between countries within the bubble while protecting against Covid-19 infections from countries with active community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 outside the bubble. Passport country should be irrelevant, except that any country might impose additional controls on entry from certain countries. For example, if there were a travel bubble between Thailand and Malaysia, there would be no quarantine requirements when moving from one country to another. However, visa requirements for different nationalities may well differ.

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, JHicks said:

If you're saying the reason for the amnesty was that people were unable to leave, and that won't be the case once the airports reopen for international departures, I agree. Even so, it's unlikely to end on the day international departures restart, because that would mean everybody having to get out the same day. I think there's bound to be some kind of grace period, but I wouldn't count on it being so long that other countries in the region are open by the time it ends, or that you can get straight back into Thailand regardless of nationality.

 

There are several ifs here. If Thailand allows international passenger flights only starting on the day after the automatic extension period ends it looks obvious to me that this part of the Ministerial Notification will be brought into play regarding the departure from Thailand of foreigners who benefited from the extension:

 

Quote

...comply...with the relevant notifications of the Ministry of Interior, within the period of time specified by the Immigration Bureau.

 

All we can do is wait for commercial passenger flights to be allowed again and see what announcements will be made before the end of July. 

[CanuckThai]

12 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Hi @ubonjoe

 

 Canada without a return visa, but I think it'll take that much longer to get back unless I already have something in my passport. Further, I know a guy stuck in Canada now, and I am trying not to join that cue (It may be unavoidable).

 

 

 

Cheers

SB

 

I'm another that's now stuck in Canada.  The strategy to get "home" is looking a bit bleak.  Even more bleak, is the outlook of living in Thailand while enjoying the work on various international projects abroad.

 

Good luck with everything

[acenase]

You might be forced to return to your passport country as no other countries are allowing foreigners to enter the country.

 

I don’t believe the amnesty will be extended after 31 July. This is your time to figure out how to get out of Thailand if you don’t belong here. If you don’t have a Non-B visa, they want you to go home already. I can imagine how immigration feels about this because they know that majority of the foreigners on this visa amnesty don’t have proper visas/only using tourist visas.  The problem is that it doesn’t look like countries are opening their doors anytime soon, so there’s really only 1 option. Get out of the country and go to the only place that will accept you (your passport country). I know it sucks but what other option do you have? 

Edited June 17, 2020 by acenase

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, JHicks said:

If you're saying the reason for the amnesty was that people were unable to leave, and that won't be the case once the airports reopen for international departures, I agree. Even so, it's unlikely to end on the day international departures restart, because that would mean everybody having to get out the same day. I think there's bound to be some kind of grace period, but I wouldn't count on it being so long that other countries in the region are open by the time it ends, or that you can get straight back into Thailand regardless of nationality.

Suvarnabhumi airport never closed for international departures. I am aware of several people that have left on scheduled flights.

If you wanted to leave now you could unless your destination country is completely closed for international passenger flights.

 

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, acenase said:

I don’t believe the amnesty will be extended after 31 July.

I do, at least to the end of August, maybe even September.

I can't see even local borders and local flights being resumed until the fear of allowing foreigners to enter and a second wave diminishes even further.

[bestie]

3 hours ago, acenase said:

You might be forced to return to your passport country as no other countries are allowing foreigners to enter the country.

 

I don’t believe the amnesty will be extended after 31 July. This is your time to figure out how to get out of Thailand if you don’t belong here. If you don’t have a Non-B visa, they want you to go home already. I can imagine how immigration feels about this because they know that majority of the foreigners on this visa amnesty don’t have proper visas/only using tourist visas.  The problem is that it doesn’t look like countries are opening their doors anytime soon, so there’s really only 1 option. Get out of the country and go to the only place that will accept you (your passport country). I know it sucks but what other option do you have? 

I'm sorry It sounds so... negativ?. So you mean, that nobody is allowed to stay in another country and of course not anymore in Thailand. No solution only one way back to our own nation , and form a free foreign place everywhere in the world where we protect the borders against the covid zombies. How long will it work? I'm not sure about that, even if temporally the rules are tighten up there are better places in the world then my "home" country. In my case. Well let's see what will happen

[superal]

8 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

There are several ifs here. If Thailand allows international passenger flights only starting on the day after the automatic extension period ends it looks obvious to me that this part of the Ministerial Notification will be brought into play regarding the departure from Thailand of foreigners who benefited from the extension:

 

 

All we can do is wait for commercial passenger flights to be allowed again and see what announcements will be made before the end of July. 

That is needed sooner rather than later to create clarity and take the steps that we need to do . 

 

It has been stated in previous posts that the opportunities to return to your home country were available and still are albeit with the additional quarantine rules . I have remained in Thailand rather than returning to the UK because of the covid 19 infection rate within the UK which was severe . Because of my age I would also have had to self isolate . For this reason I am grateful to the Thai authorities who made the amnesty .

 

The future of international travel and return to normality leans heavily on the discovery of a vaccine which may not be too far off if the UK Oxford University human trials are successful . Just 2 days ago they made a major breakthrough having trialled an existing drug which is cheap and available to the whole world and will save many lives .  

[kirbi53]

My Plan, 

 

Wife takes daughter back to Chonburi for uni early first week of July a couple of days

When she returns we just need a Kor Ror 2 form from Ampoe 

Never needed this for multi o visa in Laos 

I know it is only 20 baht. ????

Organize ALL other docs original marriage certificate, passport, wife's id and house reg etc. 

Then go to immigration about a week before the 31st CM apply for 2 month extension. 

with her

I have never had a 2 month extension before. 

IF the government extends the amnesty possibly that would be fine to ????

Then from there consider a 1 year marriage extension via an agent to avoid Laos over a couple of years or so. 

China Beijing just recently got more Covid causes

All great info from Ubon Joe as usual ????

 

Cheers, Kirby

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by kirbi53

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, bestie said:

I'm sorry It sounds so... negativ?. So you mean, that nobody is allowed to stay in another country and of course not anymore in Thailand. No solution only one way back to our own nation , and form a free foreign place everywhere in the world where we protect the borders against the covid zombies. How long will it work? I'm not sure about that, even if temporally the rules are tighten up there are better places in the world then my "home" country. In my case. Well let's see what will happen

Nobody knows if the amnesty will be extended again or not.

One big factor will be whether the land border crossing will be open without restriction that prevent people from entering. And another as to whether you would be able to re-enter Thailand.

By air it changes all the time. There are still countries that do not allow their own citizens to enter unless they are on repatriation flights. Others have restrictions to enter that prevent most people from being able to enter.

Pick a country on this map to find a country you can enter. https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

[n00dle]

21 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Hi @ubonjoe

 

I am in a similar situation as the OP. I have finished a 2 year NoN Imm O-A Long Stay and now am on the Covid amnesty. I had expected (wrongly!) that I would be able to either get another O-A in Canada or pop down to Malaysia and get a new NoN O, then get an extension, but returning to Thailand after leaving does not seem possible. I asked Samui Immigration for advice on how to deal with the situation, but they just said leave the country and get either a VE entry and convert, or get a new NoN O; when I pointed out that I couldn't go to Malaysia and come back, I just got the blank look (I don't think they know anything either). I could return to Canada without a return visa, but I think it'll take that much longer to get back unless I already have something in my passport. Further, I know a guy stuck in Canada now, and I am trying not to join that cue (It may be unavoidable).

 

My questions are...

1. Will there be a method for people to do a 'border bounce'? I suspect that there are thousands (?) of people who have either a Multiple Entry Non-O, tourist visa, other visa, etc; it would be both impossible and madness for all of them to have to leave the country in July. Simply put, it couldn't be done without a full airplane schedule operating, and that won't be happening.
2. If there are no 'border bounces' and no method of acquiring another NoN O at a nearby embassy, what then? Putting hundreds/thousands of people on overstay is not really feasible either (in my opinion); Thailand would get crucified in the international media at a time when it is trying to re-start its tourism industry.
3. Is there a chance that the current amnesty will get extended? People will need time to make alternate arrangements, especially if international planes aren't frequent (in the BP today, there was a story casting doubt on whether or not international tourism flights will get flying in July).
4. Simply put, what is the way out of this situation? The Thai government can't put hundreds/thousands of people into the IDC or on overstay, yet there isn't a method for all to get legal. What will happen?
5. Any advice to my specific situation? I can, I assume, go back to Canada for a time, but any idea how long until I could return? My life is here, not in Canada.
6. Any idea\speculation as to when we will get some information/decisions? Again, given the numbers of people involved, there will need to be (at minimum) several weeks or month(s) lead time in order for people to adapt to a new situation.

As I read back what I wrote, the only logical answer that I see is either extend the amnesty for another 2-3 months, or allow people to do a 'virtual' border bounce at their local immigration office. I have trouble seeing the Thai government doing either of those things.

 

Thanks in advance for any info/advice; everything that I know about Thai immigration, I have learned from you, so I would be grateful to see what you think, even if it is speculation.

 

Cheers

SB

 

The fact of the matter is they dont know, so there is very little chance you will get an answer from here.

[noosard]

Because no one knows what will happen

I extended my Non O visa marriage by 60 days last Friday

Which gives me till the 14th of Aug

My plan is to jump thru the marriage hoops and get a one year extension

 

Now i know others in the same boat are changing to retirement and using visa agents

visa agents cost more but less hoops to jump and seems IO likes dealing with them

[Caldera]

If they extend the flight ban past June 30 (as indicated) and also don't open the land borders in July, it seems likely that they will extend the visa amnesty.

 

I'd imagine that most tourists who got stuck have been able to leave in the meantime. There are flights out to many countries, after all. I think the bigger problem at this point are people on expired non-immigrant entries who need to change their visa status. This would be a good opportunity to revamp their processes to allow more changes in-country.

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Caldera
Typo

[JimGant]

17 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Other non-tourist type visas are primarily the Non-O-ME - how thousands of Thai husbands and fathers stay with their families.  Many of us (including myself) meet the conditions by a wide margin (multiple of the minimum income), yet cannot get extensions due to corrupt IO-Agent rackets.

Care to explain? Why would you even need an agent, particularly if they're corrupt? Do the extension yourself.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, JimGant said:

Care to explain? Why would you even need an agent, particularly if they're corrupt? Do the extension yourself.

• Jomtien - multiple attempts - added new landlord-docs each time.  Finally told me my European-living Thai landlord needed to return to Thailand and get a "newer" house-book copy from an amphur.  Agents offered 25K Baht to "fix everything" - no discount if you don't need to fake the financials.
• Issan office - "Your proven-income may only be from a state-pension" (Did not look for agent-options there)
• Bangkok - while employed here, with WP + docs published as required - "Have your employer get new originals of all the documents needed for your work-permit from the various govt offices, again."  Agent "lawyers" want 35K Baht and up - no discount for actually meeting the qualifications.

Agents are the core of the corruption.  Most of their "fee" goes to immigration.  That is why you need them, and why the IOs at many officies attempt to force you to use them.  That is why I use a Non-O-ME Visa, instead of an extension.

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

•  

Agents are the core of the corruption.  Most of their "fee" goes to immigration.  That is why you need them, and why the IOs at many officies attempt to force you to use them.  That is why I use a Non-O-ME Visa, instead of an extension.

You have been singing this tune for years.

Most organized folk have zero issues. Your like a dog with a bone. Very boring.

If your over 50 then do extensions based on retirement (many married guys do- less paperwork) since based on marriage has caused you to continually rant. As for the married guys with ME to visit wife when in fact living here, guess having some issues at the moment.

Oh I just realized gives you a flag to fly.

Edited June 18, 2020 by DrJack54

[Mulambana]

From all indications and various articles in Thai news papers, I think they are not going to open up International borders like pre-covid days. Don't know what restrictions will be imposed and types of visas allowed. Right now their focus is repatriating Thais. That will be followed by PRs and foreigners with Thai families trapped outside Thailand. They are also in discussion with a few countries to create a travel bubbles to allow foreigners on Business visas with/without work permits. Tourists are not in their minds righ now. 

[tribalfusion001]

I'm following a few YouTube vloggers in Thailand and they are planning to leave before 31st July. I doubt they will extend again, the tourists there have had plenty of time to find an exit out.

[DrJack54]

36 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

I'm following a few YouTube vloggers in Thailand and they are planning to leave before 31st July. I doubt they will extend again, the tourists there have had plenty of time to find an exit out.

You have summed it up well 

I'm not being smug. Yes I'm here on retirement extension can extend while in Los. I take no pleasure in that some folk need exit Thailand.

Many need look flights to home country.

Stop excuses. 

Today I checked flight Bangkok to Melbourne (au)  Scoot air have flights. 

Double normal cost. 

I don't require as have extension can renew in Thailand. Not happy for those not have. Many need go home and plan now.

[drbeach]

On 6/17/2020 at 1:39 PM, laosnative said:

Plus the fact that Laos borders remain closed to all except exeptional circumstances, and freight, Not sure about other neighbouring countries as I am not affected by their circumstances.

And some, like Cambodia, require you to deposit $3000 for covid testing and quarantine, AND you have to find a way of getting there by air since land borders won't let you through. That's in addition to the fit to fly certificate confirming covid free status and US$50000 health insurance policy. Even more complicated than what Thailand asks for.

[drbeach]

2 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

I'm following a few YouTube vloggers in Thailand and they are planning to leave before 31st July. I doubt they will extend again, the tourists there have had plenty of time to find an exit out.

No they haven't. Few flights are available, many are cancelled on short notice (unless you get on a government chartered repatriation flight, most of which took off in April and May) or are very expensive. The amnesty needs to be extended IF land borders haven't reopened and some flights resumed service next month.

[drbeach]

On 6/17/2020 at 7:32 PM, JackThompson said:

There are several problems with this logic:

1. There is no legal definition of "real tourist" in Thai immigration law
2. Immigration often refuses to accept valid applications for extensions, which meet all published requirements - hence the need for "other visa types"
3. Other non-tourist type visas are primarily the Non-O-ME - how thousands of Thai husbands and fathers stay with their families.  Many of us (including myself) meet the conditions by a wide margin (multiple of the minimum income), yet cannot get extensions due to corrupt IO-Agent rackets.  Others have, maybe, "only" 25K Baht/mo pensions (multiples of a Thai's average salary), which their families depend on, yet I have never heard of an IO invoking humanitarian-reasons to give an an exception for this type of case (though this is legal).
4. Many of us have nothing in our "home countries" - do not wish to and would not go there under any circumstances short of being forced "there or North Korea" (or similar options). 

If forced out of Thailand by July 31 (not saying that will happen), it is just a question of what other country wants the spending - who opens up first.  Then we go there, until we can return here.

Good rebuttal though I don't see why you wouldn't receive an extension for marriage purposes. If you have the required money in the bank and are married to a Thai, it's an automatic process. You could pay an agent a fee and they can work wonders from what I hear but have never tried it before.

 

I don't see neighboring countries as opening up to us in time - Cambodia forget it. Sri Lanka - opens August 1 but is basically a prison camp. Foreigners not allowed to use public transport and must get covid test done multiple times. Laos, Myanmar, doesn't look like it's happening.

I think the amnesty will have to be extended or they introduce a temporary extension scheme that lasts until such time the borders re-open.

[drbeach]

On 6/17/2020 at 8:56 PM, Sambotte said:

Hopefully they will extend the permission of stay for 2-3 months or even for the rest of the year. Considering the travel restrictions planned, even with borders opening and planes flying very partially. Not to mention other waves of cases anywhere in the world.

 

It's not like there is too many farangs in Thailand now hm ?... And there will not be many before long, with this world pandepanic continuing. Thailand rely on tourism. They would be crazy to force the ones who are here to go away, even if it's not "regular short tourism" anymore, as they want(ed) since a few years.

Borders run are obviously not a viable option, unless really no other choice. Risky on any level (contagion, quarantine, entry refused, etc.), for months.

 

No risk by doing an extension. Money for people. Good locking. They should... Will they ? ????

Excellent post. Most likely they will. They can't kick out people when few flights are running and nearly every country has stringent entry barriers in place. This is an unprecedented situation. For whatever reason they randomly decided to grant an additional 3 month amnesty onto the original 3 week long one. They should have made it 6 months from the outset like New Zealand did but as long as they make an announcement by the time a decision has been made on mutual border reopenings with neighboring countries or flight ban extension, we should be fine.

[drbeach]

13 hours ago, noosard said:

Because no one knows what will happen

I extended my Non O visa marriage by 60 days last Friday

Which gives me till the 14th of Aug

My plan is to jump thru the marriage hoops and get a one year extension

 

Now i know others in the same boat are changing to retirement and using visa agents

visa agents cost more but less hoops to jump and seems IO likes dealing with them

Why didn't you wait until the amnesty is nearly over? You could have brought your permitted stay until late September.

 

I intend to extend my non-O for 60 days around July 28 or 30 IF I have no other option or I might use an agent for the conversion to 1-year.

[drbeach]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

• Jomtien - multiple attempts - added new landlord-docs each time.  Finally told me my European-living Thai landlord needed to return to Thailand and get a "newer" house-book copy from an amphur.  Agents offered 25K Baht to "fix everything" - no discount if you don't need to fake the financials.
• Issan office - "Your proven-income may only be from a state-pension" (Did not look for agent-options there)
• Bangkok - while employed here, with WP + docs published as required - "Have your employer get new originals of all the documents needed for your work-permit from the various govt offices, again."  Agent "lawyers" want 35K Baht and up - no discount for actually meeting the qualifications.

Agents are the core of the corruption.  Most of their "fee" goes to immigration.  That is why you need them, and why the IOs at many officies attempt to force you to use them.  That is why I use a Non-O-ME Visa, instead of an extension.

So could I hire an agent and pay them 25-35K for the 1 year extension (marriage) with no financials required? I assume for this price, they can do it without me needing to be present?

Although technically, I do have the required funds (does a foreign credit card account qualify, surely it would be OK?)

[acenase]

3 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

I'm following a few YouTube vloggers in Thailand and they are planning to leave before 31st July. I doubt they will extend again, the tourists there have had plenty of time to find an exit out.

 

Everyone is hoping they extend the Amnesty but the big problem is If they don't extend it, there is no where to go since every country in SE Asia says "Passengers are not allowed to enter."

 

Thailand is still allowing citizens to return back into the country on repatriation flights and that's where a lot of people are being tested positive for Covid, so they have a mandatory quarantine for 14 days.  So that seems to be the only option what everyone is doing to get back to their passport country.

[AndyPa]

15 hours ago, noosard said:

Because no one knows what will happen

I extended my Non O visa marriage by 60 days last Friday

Which gives me till the 14th of Aug

My plan is to jump thru the marriage hoops and get a one year extension

 

Now i know others in the same boat are changing to retirement and using visa agents

visa agents cost more but less hoops to jump and seems IO likes dealing with them

What day did your original stay expire? Before June 14th?

[Tanoshi]

22 hours ago, noosard said:

My plan is to jump thru the marriage hoops and get a one year extension

What hoops are you referring to, do you even know?

Far to many quoting jumping through hoops for marriage extensions, either because they are quoting from other posters, but usually because they have no idea what their talking about.

 

The fact is the differences in documentation for retirement or marriage extensions is minimal.

[Tanoshi]

6 hours ago, AndyPa said:

What day did your original stay expire? Before June 14th?

It doesn't really matter, the point is the Government have automatically extended your permission of stay until the 31st July until further notice.

To many panicking and applying for 60 day extensions before they have to.

You can only extend once per entry.

 

When borders do eventually open, at best in my opinion they'll allow a 14 day window for those automatically extended to obtain an alternative valid means of stay. That could be new Visa applications at Thai Embassies/Consulates in some cases, or a border bounce for a new entry in other cases.

Whichever the case, with thousands automatically extended, the borders are going to be inundated with foreigners needing to cross both ways.

 

Use your loaf and save that one off 60 day extension until the borders reopen and a final date of the automatic extensions is announced. That will give you an additional advantage of allowing an extra 60 days for borders to clear before you eventually have to make your run.

[drbeach]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

It doesn't really matter, the point is the Government have automatically extended your permission of stay until the 31st July until further notice.

To many panicking and applying for 60 day extensions before they have to.

You can only extend once per entry.

 

When borders do eventually open, at best in my opinion they'll allow a 14 day window for those automatically extended to obtain an alternative valid means of stay. That could be new Visa applications at Thai Embassies/Consulates in some cases, or a border bounce for a new entry in other cases.

Whichever the case, with thousands automatically extended, the borders are going to be inundated with foreigners needing to cross both ways.

 

Use your loaf and save that one off 60 day extension until the borders reopen and a final date of the automatic extensions is announced. That will give you an additional advantage of allowing an extra 60 days for borders to clear before you eventually have to make your run.

That's exactly the reason I didn't extend my 60 day stay yet. What's the point? I would have wasted a lot of money on fuel to drive to immigration and back, drag my wife away from work for a whole day she can ill afford to take leave from, pay 1900 Baht, wear a mask all day and then only get 2 days added beyond the end of the amnesty period. It would have been absurd to do that. Whether August 2 or July 31 isn't going to make any difference. Even August 14 doesn't. We need at least an extra month of amnesty unless, in the unlikely event some borders re-open for border runs (perhaps Phu Nam Ron?) by late July or early August. If the latter, they need to give us a window of 7-14 days to leave after the expiration of the amnesty, or they might make us pay 1900 Baht for a 7 day "get out of Thailand" extension first. After that's done, you head to Phu Nam Ron, get stamped out, get your Burmese stamps and come back to Thailand for a fresh 90 day stay.

I thought they were sending people wanting to do 60-day marriage extensions away, given that the amnesty still applies. If it's NOT extended, then that's the time to consider doing one, a couple of days before it expires. Or, as you say, I think they will need to give us some time to leave or introduce a temporary extension to allow us to make arrangements to regularize our status.