I didn't put this in general forum because I don't want a bunch of dweebs with two weeks of holiday time in Thailand butting in with their stupid comments.

A couple of days ago I got a call from a good friend of mine in Thailand who is leaving to go back to the UK. He has been here three years and decided he can't cope anymore. This has made me really sad for a number of reasons but one of the main ones is he is the last person I know well who has lived here for a relatively long time. Everyone I know from 5 years ago has now gone.

This is not a Thai bash and I ask for it to close if it does but why are they leaving? What are you people who have been here for years ie more than two continuously doing to stay sane and survive?

I live in a relatively small town near Chiang Mai - there are a few farung in town but I don't know any of them. I work only with Thais and have very little contact with English speaking visitors. Our company has four sites and 800 employees including three forung so we are pretty out numbered.

I was talking about this a while back with some friends and I think there are two strategies that seem to work:

Strategy 1: become a Thaiophile - immerse yourself in Thainess, start wearing thai clothes, learn to speak, read and write Thai. Become a Buddhist and observe the 5 path way. Eat Thai food exclusively, marry a Thai and never associate with forung.

Strategy 2: ignore everything around you and create your own sub universe where everything is from "home" wherever that may be. Purchase a 20' satelite dish and watch the local programs from back "there" Completely dissociate yourself from Thailand and only acknowledge the existence that it is cheaper and makes the pension/redundancy package last longer.

It seems any middle ground doesn't work. I love Thailand and this is my home, I know and accept I will never be Thai or even perceived as Thai. I will always be the farung. I don't find the term Farung objectionable in the least and have decided that my neighbours calling me "eh farung" is because they have difficulty pronouncing "eh Matt". I eat Thai food almost exclusively but do find it gets boring after the fifteenth pad ka pow for the month and get a hankering for Japanese or Korean or a steak or a big fat messy burger. My wife will not eat anything except Thai food and can't speak any English so to eat farung food I have to go on my own which is definitely cheaper but less fun.

What do you guys do?

CB

Not sure I agree with regarding there being no middle way CB, in fact I think there are many middle ways depending on how much Thainess you want to take on. It's just a matter of finding your own path and being flexible and some people succeed at doing that and some don't.

The twelve years I was there I worked for an American company but all the farang staff were out of UK. Our prime objective was to train the Thai staff to a level where the office could operate without farangs (btw it never happened, 15 years on and there are still farangs as "consultants"). I was living just outside Pattaya and tended to socialise with a select crowd of the office farang p1ssheads. But many evenings I'd just saunter up to a little shophouse and settle down to some phad kaphow and a few beers. In my estate there were quite a few farangs but, apart from the odd good morning etc, I never associated with them apart from one Kiwi who'd often join me for a beer or two.

Most Sunday afternoons me and an Aussie from another estate would go fishing with the husband and son of the woman who ran the shophouse eaterie. We'd come back and she'd cook up our catch and we'd all sit around chewing the fat and drinking beer and lao khao until late on.

Of course it was easier in my situation as Pattaya was always there if I wanted to mix in with farangs or go to the movies but to be perfectly honest towards then end of my tenure I'd got bored of Pattaya and preferred the quiet evenings at my 'local'.

Television doesn't play a big part in my life so I don't really need it much relying on the Bangkok Post and internet for news. I've been here in my current digs 16 months now and have turned the haunted fishtank on once, surfed through the channels and turned it off again.

btw I don't find the term farang offensive either, the Thais that know me called me khun Phil and the ones that don't address me as farang. Some people are a little too sensitive and suffer from a little paranoia.

I'm quite sure there is a middle way.

I also really believe that where so many farangs fail is by not making a serious attempt to learn the Thai language. I know it is hard, but the rewards - even if you only learn little more than the basics - are enormous. You no longer are quite such a stranger in a strange land. Once Thais find they can converse with you in Thai ,very often their attitude will change - especially by those who speak little or no English. But even those who do speak Englsih feel much more comfortable talking in their own language as there is always the embarrassment (face) factor when talking in English.Likewise, the pleasure you derive from actually being able to communicate no knows no bounds. An added plus is that you can also understand what people are saying around you, on the telephone, and even, sometimes, about you.

I sometimes go for days without any contact with farangs or anyone who speaks English, but I am quite happy and can chat away in Thai to my staff, my Thai family, and the locals and tradesmen who I meet daily. Peversely, if i occasionally meet a Thai who insists on speaking English I try my hardest to get him or her to speak Thai. I feel more comfortable, and so do they.

Speaking Thai is not the only answer to a happy and contented life here, but it is a very important aspect that tends to get ignored by many farangs who become disenchanted with living in LOS.

Speaking Thai is not the only answer to a happy and contented life here, but it is a very important aspect that tends to get ignored by many farangs who become disenchanted with living in LOS.

100% agree with that, I only wish I'd made better efforts during my time. Considering the period I was there my Thai is lamentable, but there was always tomorrow when I would definately start the big effort . Not that I was/am disenchanted with living in Thailand it's just that it could've been better.

Not sure why you posted this here CB. This is the Games Forum.

Seriously, as someone in the throes of moving to Thailand when circumstances allow, is good to read this type of post here without the rubbish replies it inevitably attracts in General.

I feel the middle ground can work and would be the way I would proceed. Being able to speak the language is crucial to long term survival in any country, but denying all ties with your own culture shouldn't be an option.

Not sure why you posted this here CB. This is the Games Forum.

fun and games section

Seriously, as someone in the throes of moving to Thailand when circumstances allow, is good to read this type of post here without the rubbish replies it inevitably attracts in General.

I feel the middle ground can work and would be the way I would proceed. Being able to speak the language is crucial to long term survival in any country, but denying all ties with your own culture shouldn't be an option.

I speak Thai and spend almost all my time doing so, at home it is the only language my wife and I share. I agree that the ability to communicate is of utmost importance to long term survival. One of the most interesting, rewarding, and frustrating times was when I spent time in a village where NO ONE spoke any English except the kids I was then teaching. My thai was almost non existent but between alternatively going insane with frustration and laughing at it because it was so funny I learned a lot of lessons in living here.

I think that you have to have some sort of job, irrespective of what it is because the sitting in the bar talking to the other guys sitting in the bar while watching the premier league football has to be a killer. It worries me what will happen in five years time when I reach the mandatory Thai retirement age of 55.

We mix within the Thai community and everyone seems to know me because I have had things delivered to the house without having to go through the process of explaining to them where I live. I think I am just a bit down because it seems the people I really like and know are going for a variety of reasons. They are people who I would have thought were here for life but they just seem to have given up. I just don't understand why they are getting out.

I am following a middle path - it works for me and I am happy about it but I think I am the odd one out compared to the majority of farung living here.

oh I noticed a parallel thread in open forum and yes it only took about 7 posts before it developed into a <deleted> fight.

CB...from what u have said, you seem to already be practicing the middle ground

one other thing might be..why not try and make some simple farang dishes that can be adapted to a bit of thai taste? a possibility would be pasta...tomato based, add the things u like, and maybe some basil, but top with a sprinkle of red chili powder for your wife...see how she feels about it....

Im not a cook, but Im sure u will be able to think of other similarly easy to adapt food

also perhaps u just need a little break away from your usual routine? you know...sometime even I feel like I dont belong so perhaps its not all culture....might also be a lot to do with individual perspectives and circumstances we are going through.

best

MiG (is not 16)

oh I noticed a parallel thread in open forum and yes it only took about 7 posts before it developed into a <deleted> fight.

That is usually what happens .... bless 'em.

I have spent some time today thinking about this subject, and I spent some time farang watching .... I will post my view in the morning.

My view on assimilation attempts in Thailand.

1) Arrival survival. Getting your bearings, learning the delights and not so delights, the laws, the how-tos, discovering all the new things. This is all exciting and the freshness of the experience rejuvenates the spirit, love of life in general and the I am the luckiest person on earth thought waves.

2) You start falling into a daily pattern, meeting a few folks, feeling ecstatic when a Thai shopkeeper, neighbour or farang barkeep acknowledges you for the first time (triumph! I have arrived!).

3) If you are not working or otherwise occupied by say writing your opus, learning Thai, studying astronomy, exercising every day, even if it's just a long walk, etc, life can start getting a bit trickier. Like, why get up early; why not have a beer at lunch; why bother doing today what I can leave til manana? This is where you really have to take charge of making your life useful in some way. This is also when the Thais around you have decided what kind of farang you are: lazy, drunk, kind, clean, hard-working, easy mark, good-hearted and needs our protection, etc. This is also when you realise how petty some farang/Thai acquaintances can be.

4) You know many people and start to split them into groups: like or not like, trust or not, can depend on or not; enjoy or not...you become the wise farang guru who can dispense advice and guidance to the new newbies. Sometimes, you get an attitude, too.

3-4) At some point usually, but not limited to these stages, you experience the first crisis: bike accident, dog problems, spat with neighbour, immigration woes, theft from your property, spousal probs, etc. This is where you quickly learn that you are an outsider, especially if you do not have Thai in-laws. If you have a dispute, especially with a villager, whether it was your fault or not, your village "friends" will sympathise and commiserate with you, but they will not take sides with you against said villager, especially if the families have lived there for generations (many hate each other, but they will not break the "harmony" by supporting a farang). In other cases, Thai friends will help by providing a lawyer, etc, which you pay for. Whatever the event, even if you are a peaceful little mouse, one incident like this starts chins wagging and it is forever recorded in the oral history kept on you, even if some cannot remember exactly what it was. "She is a good girl, but..."

So, this is the point when you really start questioning why you are in Thailand, why you tried to assimilate and in the end, discovered you feel more alien than you did when you first arrived, because you realise you will always be outside of the group.

I also think many Thais, and Asians in general, do not open themselves so freely to farang in terms of close friendship, because they know in the back of their minds that the farang will leave one day, and the time spent will be a waste.

I know many long-timers will vehemently disagree with my views, but as a single farang living in Thailand long time, this is how I distilled the ten-plus year experience. I still love the country and people, but sometimes, you need to get away to discover again what is meaningful in your life.

Perhaps this is what happened to your friend, CB.

Between all of us on here, as Jet knows already, I may be forced to leave Thailand shortly. This is not due to disillusionment, but personal problems in my family. My really big problem is what happens to my son, as he is not legally mine & I can't adopt him, which means I can't take him out of Thailand. And the dogs, I don't know what will happen to them.

I can't answer your question, CB, as my life here has not been typical of most farang's that live here. I've had so many bad things happen, that if my life were a soap opera, no-one would watch it, as it would be too unbelievable. Having said that, living here has been a fantastic experience also, I've had experiences & times here, that I wouldn't have missed for the world, even with all the heartache. I'll keep anyone interested posted on what's going to happen when I find out (end of next week, probably). In the meantime, if anyone has any brilliant ideas about how I can keep my son, please feel more than free to pm me. Working on the article, Jet.

Jeez, good luck with all of that, I'm sure you have the best wishes of all on here.

Now I know I might not be able to afford it, but my idea of heaven is winter in Thailand, summer/early autumn in the UK.

I have lived in Asia for over twenty years, I have passable Cantonese and I am learnig Thai. I love Thailand and Government willing, I look forward to the day when I can bin HK and live by the lake.

However, I have never felt fully assimilated in Asia, and for as much as I love the place, I do yearn for walks on windswept beaches with a dog after the tourists have gone home, be it in Devon, South Wales or just about any coast in the UK.

Never quite found that inner peace anywhere else. Inside all of our hearts we know where home really is. You may not want to be there all the time, but every so often.............lovely.

Strategy 1: become a Thaiophile - immerse yourself in Thainess, start wearing thai clothes, learn to speak, read and write Thai. Become a Buddhist and observe the 5 path way. Eat Thai food exclusively, marry a Thai and never associate with forung.

Strategy 2: ignore everything around you and create your own sub universe where everything is from "home" wherever that may be. Purchase a 20' satelite dish and watch the local programs from back "there" Completely dissociate yourself from Thailand and only acknowledge the existence that it is cheaper and makes the pension/redundancy package last longer.

I have been here almost 20 years and I don't take either of these approaches and I am fine.

I've been here 18 years and don't take either of these two approaches either.

personally, I think it has less to do with how you live your life and more to do with how you accept the life around you.

I've always said there are three stages to life in Thailand:

1) everything is beautiful, the Thai people are wonderful, life is perfect

2) disillusionment: everything is dirty, the Thai people are terrible (liars, rip off merchants, whatever) and life sucks

and finally:

3) acceptance: everywhere has its pluses and minuses, Thai people are just people; some bad, some good, and life is what you make it.

Of course, many people leave because circumstances force them to leave (ie want a better education for their kids etc) but I think most people hit the wall on the 2nd stage and leave before ever becoming able to reach the 3rd stage.

I live my life as I see fit, I am not a Thai, never will be. I have adapted to local customs somewhat, it is only respectful, but I am still me and some things will never change. Take me or leave me but I won't change my most important values to please those around me. I think having a spouse who is willing to meet halfway is important, it shows the spouse values alternative customs and values as being important to someone they love.

1) everything is beautiful, the Thai people are wonderful, life is perfect

2) disillusionment: everything is dirty, the Thai people are terrible (liars, rip off merchants, whatever) and life sucks

and finally:

3) acceptance: everywhere has its pluses and minuses, Thai people are just people; some bad, some good, and life is what you make it.

Agreed, mostly.

I know some ex-pats here that are in stage two, they have been for years, but will probably never get to stage three.

They can't survive without air-con all year round, will only eat western food, can't speak a word of Thai, would be totally helpless without their partners and spend every evening drinking beer together, moaning about everything in sight. I sometimes wonder why they stay, cost of living is all it can be.

When I moved here, I spent the first three months living with the in-laws, that was an experience I would never like to repeat, but it did teach me a few valuable lessons. It was party season at the time, no rain so no work and it felt like there was always some young boy going off to the Wat, someone getting married or someone unexpectedly dropping down dead.

I was pretty much stranded in the village, no car, couldn't handle the bike then and naturally the only farang in the village had to attend these parties, I was drunk on Chang and Lao Khao by 11am most days. I now drink nothing but water and coffee during daylight hours unless it is a very special occasion and I am not planning on going anywhere later (if asked, I just tell them I am driving and that is an acceptable excuse) But it did mean that everyone in the village knows me now and I am Khun Corin to everybody (apart from one, read the Kookie thread for details)

A little later wifey managed to break her arm and the hospital managed to screw up setting it, she now has metal pins, but for reasons that would take too long to explain, I had a one armed wife for over a year..... this meant that she was completely reliant on me. More brownie points with the villagers.

I got around to buying a car six months ago and do the occasional favours for locals without transport (yes, it took that long to sell my house in the UK)

Four months ago I created a little business for On, which is going a little better than I expected and nearly as good as I hoped. It's very popular with all the kids from a wide area.... the parents thank us for keeping them off the street and getting into trouble.

I am not Thai, I will never be seen as Thai, but I am an 'acceptable farang' it's as good as anyone could hope for.

Because of her business venture, On doesn't have time to cook for me in the evenings and my cooking skills leave a lot to be desired. So now I go to the ex-pat bar every night (except Sunday) eat some Thai food, drink a couple of beers and listen to the old farts moaning, with an inward peaceful smile.

Oh, dear, please delete my last post! I lived in Thailand for only 10-plus years, only did a business by myself, and only tried to care for anybody or any living thing that needed help. Obviously, I know nothing about surviving in Thailand and my opinion is unworthy. Time for another door, I guess.

May I ask what caused that little outburst?

BTW..... It's our third wedding anniversary today and it still feels good both being here and being with her.

May I ask what caused that little outburst?

BTW..... It's our third wedding anniversary today and it still feels good both being here and being with her.

Awwww... I would send a bouquet of roses to the missus if I had paypal, but I don't, so there you go. Please give her a big hug for me.

What are you doing posting on TV if it's your anniversary, Thaddy? Geez.

Outburst? I'm getting f** tired of listening to holier than thous. I was not cossetted with a Thai family in Thailand. I saw my cute little farang female friends losing their lives to make their cute boyfriends happy and chill on the beach in fishermen fashion, trying to make their holiday friends from home envious when they visited; and then the Thai-resident farang girls got jealous of each other and started the competition to see who could have the first baby and "seal the deal". Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I think I seen it all Thaddy.

What are you doing posting on TV if it's your anniversary, Thaddy? Geez.

Well we did quite a bit of 'assimilating' in the early hours ....... early risers around here (pun intended)

Then she nipped to one of the small shops in the village to get some provisions, she came back a little flustered, didn't say why and said she had to go into town.

She came back about an hour ago and explained. Yesterday she thought that she had misplaced her mobile (a frequent occurrence, she's useless with keys too) she would normally ask me to call it from my mobile but I had gone back to sleep while she was in the shower, but when she went to the small shop, the shopkeeper tried to sell her her own mobile for 5k Baht. So, she went into town to get a copy of the receipt for the phone with the serial number on it and to file a report with the police.

Our anniversary is important, but getting your mobile back and having one of the locals, that she really can't stand, banged up for a couple of days is so much more fun don't you think.

She is now in the shop taking care of her entourage of small boys that turn up at this time everyday.

I can understand your sentiments about your life on Samui, but Isaan is nothing like that, not even close.

Congratulations Thaddeus to you and Om. Have a wonderful day.

May I ask what caused that little outburst?

BTW..... It's our third wedding anniversary today and it still feels good both being here and being with her.

Awwww... I would send a bouquet of roses to the missus if I had paypal, but I don't, so there you go. Please give her a big hug for me.

What are you doing posting on TV if it's your anniversary, Thaddy? Geez.

Outburst? I'm getting f** tired of listening to holier than thous. I was not cossetted with a Thai family in Thailand. I saw my cute little farang female friends losing their lives to make their cute boyfriends happy and chill on the beach in fishermen fashion, trying to make their holiday friends from home envious when they visited; and then the Thai-resident farang girls got jealous of each other and started the competition to see who could have the first baby and "seal the deal". Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I think I seen it all Thaddy.

Feeling a bit PMSy today Jet? Not sure who that outburst was aimed at but I doubt anyone aimed anything at you.

Mostly, it just appeared to me to be people relating their own experiences. Not sure where the problem lies since everybody has their own experience and is well within their right to relate it without you getting huffy.

Jet's post did unveil one universal truism. The little Peyton Place scenarios that happen in small communities increase exponentially in any resort area. Doesn't matter if it's Samui, Banff, or Majorca, the little interpersonal drams that go on, especially among the landed residents would make Jerry Springer drool.

I do not get huffy and I am well past PMS blues at 742. I stand by what I stated.

CV succinctly summarised my statements with his Peyton Place comparison. In my Thai realm, you fart in Haadrin and chinwaggers in Thongsala and Chaweng will know and embellish on the velocity and aroma of your poot before the songthaew or the ferry arrives there; a pity, not as funny or unbelievable as when it happened when there were no land lines and cell phones. That's always been the prob with farang and locals with nothing better to do with themselves -- idle malicious gossip.

I do not disagree with what you have to say but I cannot see how this has anything to do with what anyone has talked about on this thread. You have me completely lost except to see that you want this thread aimed at what you want to talk about.

wassup jet, cant see anyone has said your opinion is unworthy or even anyone disagreeing with your post? why the venom?

Tress fever.

A non-scientific guess at the threads I've witnessed over the years from people who have become frustrated and packed it in or come close has me thinking that the highest burnout rates are in the touristy areas. Not quite so high in the north, Isaan, or rural areas.

I'm not trying to bash the resort areas like Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, et al, but face it, sometimes these areas can bring out the worst in both Thai and visitor alike. Some thrive on the energy of these places, others get disillusioned once they see the reality behind sun, sand, or bright lights.

I'm one of those ones who can't handle the resort mentality. I love visiting these places, but would never live there. Even in Canada, though I live in a city that gets boatloads of tourists daily, I purposely avoid anything to do with the tourism industry.

You go into any tourist area, be it a small vendor on a Phuket street, or a million dollar store by Victoria harbour, there's always that same desperate starving dog look that a visitor gets when walking by. The boom-bust nature of the tourism industry just creates that need to grab all you can while you can because you never know how bad that bust period is going to be.

I don't think this mentality is one that you can put away after work, and for that reason resort areas seem to have a larger than normal share of the types who some would term "scheming" individuals who's entire outlook is based on getting one up on the other guy before he gets one up on them. It's how they compete for jobs, customers, girlfriends/boyfriends, social standing, etc. If you don't want to play these games you can either be a loner or leave.

It's true this same thing plays out on a smaller scale everywhere that tourists go. But I think it's less of an issue in places like Chiang Mai or Bangkok where tourism is just a part of the city's reason for being, rather than the major reason it exists. There's more opportunity to live there and avoid having to deal with these issues than there is in a place the depends on tourists.

Talk to people who chose to spend a season living and working at a beach resort, ski hill, or whatever and they'll likely speak glowingly about it. Talk to someone who tried it for five years and you will probably get a far different story.

Perspicacious view, CV.

True, I lived on the quiet side of KPG for a few years. Then the 24-hour techno craze hit my area and I left for the quiet side of Samui. As you noted in a previous post, the Peyton Place scenario is endemic in these areas. The farang residents, and I will be bashed for saying this but English women in particular, are often horrid gossipmongers armed with malicious intent. One example: When one of my dogs died, a "friend" stopped by, heard my news and passed it along the way to everyone she knew. By the time she passed this info and her view of my current state of affairs through the villages all along to the other side of the island, like a Chinese whisper, the news was that I was so depressed I had killed my own dog and was probably going to off myself soon.

I did enjoy meeting some tourists, because they brought in the freshness and vibrancy of new ideas, trends, thoughts, words. I found the long-term farang mired in a form of self-necrotising hatred, slagging each other off one week, only to be kissy face the next because there is no one else to talk to. Hypocrites.

A non-scientific guess at the threads I've witnessed over the years from people who have become frustrated and packed it in or come close has me thinking that the highest burnout rates are in the touristy areas. Not quite so high in the north, Isaan, or rural areas.

I'm not trying to bash the resort areas like Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, et al, but face it, sometimes these areas can bring out the worst in both Thai and visitor alike. Some thrive on the energy of these places, others get disillusioned once they see the reality behind sun, sand, or bright lights.

I'm one of those ones who can't handle the resort mentality. I love visiting these places, but would never live there. Even in Canada, though I live in a city that gets boatloads of tourists daily, I purposely avoid anything to do with the tourism industry.

You go into any tourist area, be it a small vendor on a Phuket street, or a million dollar store by Victoria harbour, there's always that same desperate starving dog look that a visitor gets when walking by. The boom-bust nature of the tourism industry just creates that need to grab all you can while you can because you never know how bad that bust period is going to be.

I don't think this mentality is one that you can put away after work, and for that reason resort areas seem to have a larger than normal share of the types who some would term "scheming" individuals who's entire outlook is based on getting one up on the other guy before he gets one up on them. It's how they compete for jobs, customers, girlfriends/boyfriends, social standing, etc. If you don't want to play these games you can either be a loner or leave.

It's true this same thing plays out on a smaller scale everywhere that tourists go. But I think it's less of an issue in places like Chiang Mai or Bangkok where tourism is just a part of the city's reason for being, rather than the major reason it exists. There's more opportunity to live there and avoid having to deal with these issues than there is in a place the depends on tourists.

Talk to people who chose to spend a season living and working at a beach resort, ski hill, or whatever and they'll likely speak glowingly about it. Talk to someone who tried it for five years and you will probably get a far different story.

I pretty much agree with the general sentiment you've expressed cdnvic & certainly agree with the last 2 sentences. I feel vastly different about HH today than I did 5 (or even 4) years ago. However, in my case, it's not the tourists or even the tourist infrastructure that bothers me, it's the resident expats. I believe that is for 2 reasons, one is that I "expect" something from them that none of them is willing to give & the second reason (which I feel is tied to the first) is golf. Basically we get a lot of 40 or older expats here, sure they come for the girls, but perhaps not as much as Pattaya or Phuket. Many come with their farang wives. They live in their huge houses in farang ghettos (not my wording, it's used a lot by the long term expats here - and scarily, after only 5 years I am virtually a long termer!) and do nothing apart from beach, golf, drink, spend, more golf. Oh, and, of course they socialise with the other expats. And, of course, running a non-profit org, I want something from them, namely money & help (oh and homes for dogs). Do I get it? Do I , hel_l!

In general, these have to be the laziest, most self centred, greediest, most blinkered people I have ever met in my life (the new settlers, not the old-timers) Getting money from them is like getting blood from a stone. This month I answered a call from a golfer about a dog with a snare biting into her foot. I went out to get her & had to sedate her to bring her in, she was so scared & in so much pain. While I was waiting for her to go "under", the golfer came across me & said he was glad I'd come out. Did he give me any money to help with her treatment? Nope. Turns out the dog was pregnant & had VG as well. We had to abort the pups, neuter her & are now giving her weekly chemo. She's a lovely dog & I'm glad we could help her, but a donation would have been nice. 3 weeks ago, a farang woman dumped 5 pups with mange on me, no donation. This week, a guy who adopted one of our dogs brought her back, as he "might" be leaving Thailand. Fine. Donation towards her upkeep? None. I can't get people to sit in our charity shop for 3 hours a week, so it can stay open & earn money for us, never mind get physical help with the dogs. I understand that many people don't like dogs, but they're happy enough to come to a cocktail party fundraiser or dinner dance if I organise it!

Again, I realise that my Thailand experience is different from most peoples', I'd sometimes really like to try a few weeks in a village somewhere. I'd probably like it.

You go into any tourist area, be it a small vendor on a Phuket street, or a million dollar store by Victoria harbour, there's always that same desperate starving dog look that a visitor gets when walking by. The boom-bust nature of the tourism industry just creates that need to grab all you can while you can because you never know how bad that bust period is going to be.

Dead right there vic. I lived in and around Pattaya for twelve years and the happiest of them were the last seven when I was about 5 kilometers inland. Just far enough to make a trip to town an effort but close enough to enjoy the benefits. It is, agreeing with your view, the impermanence of the place that unhinges people, that and the "get rich quick" attitude. Friendships with both expats and Thais tend to be short term affairs, the expats moving on and the Thais seemingly losing interest. The expats in particular in the tourist areas seem to be the most nomadic of types, if it don't work out in a couple of years time to move on and if it does work out it's time to sell up and try something new.

The farang residents, and I will be bashed for saying this but English women in particular, are often horrid gossipmongers armed with malicious intent.

Hypocrites.

JG, if I or any of the other guys on this forum had said that we'd be bashed for sure but you are absolutely correct, maybe not 100% but close. When I first moved to Thailand a lot of expat families stayed at a resort on Pattaya north road. The wives had nothing to do all day but sit around the pool singing the praises of their hard working, good man, husbands whilst slagging off the rest of us on single status as a bunch of no good, beer swilling, whoremongers (not so far from the truth in many cases ). What they didn't know was what their squeaky clean hubbys got up to in the 20th hole (Bar de Papillon) after their Sunday morning round of golf .

Hypocrisy sucks!

NR, the short-term tourists would probably donate more.