Many farang must leave their families, friends and Thailand

[khhainuui]

Anyone else had few 90days non imm b visas before covid?

 

Im in situation that i came back to thailand from malay, in the same day that they closed borders, got my 90days non b visa.

I was going to open bank accounts, but then they stated in every bank that no new account openings because of covid.

So im without bank account, insurance, because now have no valid visa to show for bank or workpermit.

 

Also this covid took my export business. No income to company yet, but i have my army pension aroun 20k / month.

lived here around 2years and feels like home, now it looks like that i need to say goodbye and leave my gf and pets here.

 

Yeah i know i should have try to do something about visas earlier but also lawyers and government has been saying that just wait wait we will give you news later, dont stress maipenraaai.

 

Basically this country is not for normal working guys who has normal salary/pension.

 

Planning to get married but not have 400k. 

 

Im only 26 and not really have anything back home, served my country and just wanna live in peace here in lovely Thailand.

 

I wish you all the best, i normally dont stress but first time in my life i feel im gonna lose something, not really care about my own life but the loved ones im supporting.

 

[john terry1001]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

That only applies to those who already have 1-year extensions.  All others only need to show 2 mo, according to the law.

There's no such law, both Ubonjoe and Reter Denis confirmed in a recent thread that it doesn't exist!!!!

 

Show us the law if you think it does. 

[Why Me]

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It is immigration creating that stereotype by forcing those who fully-qualify for an extension, per the law, to use agents. 

BS. Lots of reports of DIY extensions in this forum. If you fill the reqs then it's a bunch of paperwork and a few hrs. at the IO and no more. Only the ones who fall short are "forced" to use an agent.

 

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Don't try to turn their extortion-scams back on us.  We didn't create this system, and are not the "racists" in this equation. 

Repeat, you can deal with IO on your own without being extorted if your papers are in order. Sure, they would like you to use an agent for the kickback. The racism is in the presumption that the IO should give you a pass as a white guy even though you are under the reqs because, heck, they would take money and do that anyway.

 

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The resemblance of their behavior to those of undeveloped thug-run nations does contribute to the "3rd World" perception.  It's a shame, because the Thai people deserve better.

Hmm, methinks you are racist. Hopefully, Imm will see this and tell you to haul ass.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Why Me

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

Nobody's being kicked out based on money but based on not having the proper visa.

... which we don't have a way to obtain, from the MFA.
 

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

And, yes, certain long-stay visas have financial requirements which is perfectly sensible to see if you can make ends meet here

That is, unfortunately, not correct.  You can have multiples of the min-income, and be denied on made-up (explitive).

 

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

(Malaysia, from your list, has even higher regs for retirement than Thailand).

Not for spouses of citizens.  They don't use your family as leverage to extort you, like immigration do here.  A quick review of what is needed there:

 

There is about a $300 security-bond you pay immigration - fully-refundable on departure or getting PR.  Somewhat similar paperwork to here, but standardized .  I saw some references to agents, which cost about 10% of Thai costs - appears Immigration isn't getting much/any of that.  A "sponsor" can be your wife or anyone else with an income about what a working-class Thai earns, unless Cambodians/etc have been allowed to enter their labor-sector (agents likey provide this for the $125 USD). 

 

That's it - done for FIVE Years, and a straightforward path to PR.

 

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

This is not a problem for Einstein. Get your finances sorted before plonking down in a country where you aren't a citizen.

I'm set.  Did it all by the book.  Much more than the required-income.  Denied, mutliple times, at multiple offices. 

 

Others were set to live here, based on the local cost of living (well below 40K - Thais live on 1/4 that) - no problem with Visas.  This was a good financial-decision, since they can support a family much better here on a lower income than their passport-country.  They are now shafted, even if Immigration will recognize their incomes as "valid."

 

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

And accept that as non-citizen you are a guest subject to their laws, which can change. No, you aren't entitled to anything, even if you've lived here 20 years and fathered multiple children.

Break up long-standing families by changing the rules?  "Family-Values" - Thai Immigration style.

 

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

Agents, payoffs? Part of living here. You know that, I know that, every expat and every Thai knows that too. Like they say, When in Rome do as Romans.

What about us non-lawbreaker types, who used to use the MFA, to avoid the corruption?  Just participate in the crime - our only choice?  Let's hope another option becomes available soon.

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

 

Yes, it always amazes me we live in a country where those using Agents to get Immigration's Extensions are treated VIP, while honest-applicants often get shafted. 

I'm sure you weren't referring to all those using LEGAL MFA Visas, who were NOT breaking the law with payoffs, as Corrupt-Immigration prefers they do. Yes, Immigration HATED our avoiding committing a felony, by paying them off via their agent-partners.

 

There'd be no need to use "agents" if people qualified for the visas for which they were applying. Obtaining permission to stay by any means other than applying at one's local Immigration office and paying the 1900 baht fee is illegal.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[david555]

About the Phuket  solution ….read carefully ….and not with "wishful thinking reading glasses " !! As embassy's do not like to discredit their country's by saying your life is in danger by returning  home.... ????

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/tourists-to-get-unlimited-30-day-extensions-to-stay-after-visa-amnesty-ends-77201.php

 

Thai gov. give possibility's , but must be honest reasons who probably must survive I.O.'s approvals checking on credibility....

 

 

 

Gen Pornchai explained that any tourists unable to return home after Sept 26 due to illness are to apply for an extension to stay by applying at an Immigration office and presenting a medical certificate to prove they are unfit to fly.

However, those who are unable to return home due to lack of flights or other circumstances in their home country must present a letter from their home country’s embassy or consulate in Thailand requesting that the foreign be allowed to continue to temporarily stay in the Kingdom, Gen Pornchai added.

Foreigners will be granted 30 days’ stay each time, Gen Pornchai said.

However, if the tourist’s circumstances have not changed within the 30 days, they can apply for another 30 days’ stay, he added.

Edited September 3, 2020 by david555

[teacherclaire]

They where legal here before the covid, in this moment they only have one thing to do after the end of the amnesty, leave their families, friends and Thailand.

 

Did I miss something? 

 

I haven't yet seen anything that the Thai consulate in Savannakhet/Laos- once reopened- will stop issuing ME Non-O visas for married foreigners.

 

Are there any plans that they're planning to scratch this opportunity?

 

 Having friends here in Thailand can hardly be a reason to receive a visa. Or an extension of stay.

 

  No other country would issue such a visa to "stay with friends." 

 

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It may be legal...but it's certainly against the spirit of the visa laws and regulations. They are finding this out to their detriment now.

Where/how is this "spirit" defined?  Does it have an oracle we can consult? 

  

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Don't tell me...tell it to the immigration officer when you're hauled-up in front of them for having obtained permission to stay illegally.

We all saw what happened when they "investigated" the agent caught with everything down to the stamps.  Bosses and Bosses' Bosses - all on the take - shut that right down.  Would the Singapore Police, or similar, be called in to do this investigation?

 

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

you don't believe that the people in power are looking at that? This 'loophole' will become glaringly more obvious as things tighten up and one day may become embarrassing enough that someone will have to fix it (social media + loss of face have destroyed many plans here)

We Wish!!  They might stop "adding new requirements" if they didn't have an agent-money incentive to block legit-applications.  Without the ability to line their pockets with agent-money, most existing-staff would quit and go to work as ordinary-criminals - maybe steal cars, or something.  Thailand might end up with friendly, professional IOs, like the PI.

 

Immigration could at least limit their schemes to those faking ED, Volunteer, etc - fellow "scoundrels" who don't want to bother going out for visas, and don't mind playing a part in corruption.  Sadly, many good folks are being forced down those routes now, by covid-closed borders.

 

I'm hoping any embarrassment-forced-change would arise from the international-press reporting on family-breakups, if they don't back-off of this hard-line stance.  That's really the only leverage we have.  They don't care about our Thai families, much less us.

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, DaweiBeach said:

So almost all Thai fathers are irresponsible then? Or does this only apply to foreigners for some reason? 

Yes it does only apply to foreigners, due to that this thread is about visa for foreigners. Thai fathers are citizens of the country, and will have no need for a visa in their own country.

[jaiyenjohn]

Want to stay in Thailand 100% legally with your spouse, without having to show any income at all? Simply be a woman. Foreign women do not have to show any income to get a Non-O extension based on marriage. Foreign Men do.

 

That kind of shoots down the whole Thailand just doesn't want freeloaders reasoning. Thailand makes it very easy for their male citizens to have foreign wives, but puts up a monetary barrier to their female citizens that have foreign husbands. My guess is a combination of sexism and a little residual xenophobia are involved. But I hope this discrepancy gets addressed once same sex marriage is legalized in Thailand.

Edited September 3, 2020 by jaiyenjohn

[metisdead]

A post with an altered quote has been removed. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

There's no such law, both Ubonjoe and Reter Denis confirmed in a recent thread that it doesn't exist!!!!

 

Show us the law if you think it does. 

It's been "2 months for first application" since they changed the rules - widely cited here over and over, including post-covid.  I don't read for a few days, and everything changed again? 

 

THAT part would not surprise me.  I've followed the "conventional wisdom" before, and been the first of many to report a "new rule / requirement / policy-change."  It's a moving target, so tomorrow / next-month / next-year are pepetually-uncertain.

 

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, trucking said:

But , never in god-knows-how-many decades of the facility being available has it ever been suggested by the IB that continuous Non Immigrant multis were anything but official or that at some stage would be terminated.

That's because the IB have nothing to do with Visas issued by Thai Embassies/Consulates, which come under the jurisdiction of the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Certain Embassies don't offer the Non Imm O ME anymore, some not even the 90 day Non O for retirement.

 

Only HCMC and Savannakhet offer the Non Imm O ME without financial proof.

If the MFA roll out the 'online' application scheme to all the Thai Embassies, then the Non Imm O ME will become obsolete.

 

It's only 400K in a Thai bank for 3 months for an extension based on marriage.

(2 months prior to the date of application + advised to keep it for the 30 day under consideration period).

Get a 3 month Fixed Term account if your concerned about interest rates.

You can then withdraw the whole 400K and use for your living expenditures, saving on overseas transfer costs for the same thing.

[JackThompson]

30 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

There'd be no need to use "agents" if people qualified for the visas for which they were applying.

I qualified every time.  Had the proven-income, living with my Thai wife, etc.  It made NO Difference.  I am not the only one to report such issue.  That is not how it works for everyone. 

 

30 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Obtaining permission to stay by any means other than applying at one's local Immigration office and paying the 1900 baht fee is illegal.

That's why I haven't gone the agent-route - I'm not a criminal like them. They roll out the red-carpet for agent-applications - 30 seconds for a pic and bye - no home-visits, "sitting on the bed" picture, "new requirements" etc.  It's a sick-joke, pretending their games are about who "really" qualifies or not.

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, treetops said:

5 hours ago, Nout said:

Yes. Because plenty of people have more than the minimum monthly income requirement in terms of amount of money but not in the unreasonable form that IO requires.  Some people have multiple income streams not consistent with a regular monthly payment but often in excess of  it.

 

5 hours ago, treetops said:

Yet they don't have the brains to consolidate that income somewhere and bring it in to Thailand in a way that does satisfy IO requirements?

They may well be able to consolidate their various incomes into one monthly payment, but IOs are, none the less, are asking to see 'proof of sustainable income'.

 

Those of us with nice solid pensions have no problem. But others, whose incomes are more Fractious would have difficulty in satisfying that requirement.

[DrTuner]

The actual problem is the way Thais have set up the system. 

 

Permanent residence is what should be attainable for those that actually live here. Not temporary extensions of stay or visa runs, which have become the norm. From what I've understood, decades ago the system worked as it should: you'd enter with a visa, extend a few times and then get PR. Like in most countries. 

 

Thailand's immigration system with it's loopholes and desire to keep people as non-immigrants is a failure.

[ICELANDMAN]

5 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

If you are married, I would bet there are lots of countries in Asia that have no income requirement.  Philippines for one, I know has no income or proof of money requirement if you are married to a filipina.

Yes you have right for married Philippine I check now, and now for many I think is so later change wife

[trucking]

13 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

That's because the IB have nothing to do with Visas issued by Thai Embassies/Consulates, which come under the jurisdiction of the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Certain Embassies don't offer the Non Imm O ME anymore, some not even the 90 day Non O for retirement.

 Thanks for the information.

 

I see I have completely misunderstood things. I always assumed that when I entered the country by land or air I was dealing with immigration officers who would know the rules and regulations.

 

Obviously, if they were all from the ministry of foreign affairs it perfectly explains why not once in 20 years was it ever pointed out to me and the multitude of others that I was doing something wrong or illegal. Immigration officers would clearly have done this. Over the course of those decades immigration and the MOFA would have noticed things were not dove tailing and brought things into agreement.

 

Thanks again for the heads up. Its the great thing about this forum that we have lots of members to correct us when we get things wrong.

[JackThompson]

24 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

They where legal here before the covid, in this moment they only have one thing to do after the end of the amnesty, leave their families, friends and Thailand.

 

Did I miss something? 

That about sums it up.

 

24 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

I haven't yet seen anything that the Thai consulate in Savannakhet/Laos- once reopened- will stop issuing ME Non-O visas for married foreigners.

 

Are there any plans that they're planning to scratch this opportunity?

The Visa-haters have been rubbing their hands with glee for years - hoping for the day those Visas would end, so they could drink our families' tears.  But it is inaccessible, hence the "forced to leave" result, regardless of whatever future policy,

 

24 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

 Having friends here in Thailand can hardly be a reason to receive a visa. Or an extension of stay.
No other country would issue such a visa to "stay with friends." 

Those with Thai families usually have friends here. 

 

But actually, this really was a Non-O option, up until a few years ago.  Policy, until the past few years, was to maximize Thai-employment / income opportunities with as many spending foreign-capital into the country as possible.  Other countries still do this (visa runs no problem, etc).

 

More recently, policy shifted to shut down those opportunities ("keep the rabble on their subsistence-farms") - to push the remaining into a payoff-system - plus the large-groups who are taken by the bus-load to flood tourist-areas, and spend at "connected businesses." 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

6 hours ago, connda said:

Virtually every other nation in the world recognizes the value and sanctity of The Family and as such have laws in place allowing those who are married to their citizens to eventually gain at least residency.

They also have laws which prohibit residency as it's decided on a case by case basis as I found out.

[FarFlungFalang]

4 hours ago, Why Me said:

You are free to think they are the same. Except there is no restriction on extending as many years as you like and no official statements discouraging their use for long stay. Which is opposite the case for visa runners.

 

You deal with your situation, I'll deal with mine.

If you fall below the financial requirements you will be restricted.Money talks and no money walks. 

[treetops]

4 hours ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

Let's clarify something here. Being on a Non-immi O multi before they stopped and now single, leaving the country every 90days or getting an extension and then leaving is completely and utterly within the law and uses of this type of visa. I only thing that can be problematic is this very situation. How in the hell can anyone and did anyone foresee this situation???!!

It was never a permanent stay visa as you've just found out.  How you interpreted it is neither here nor there.

[treetops]

59 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Those of us with nice solid pensions have no problem. But others, whose incomes are more Fractious would have difficulty in satisfying that requirement.

Bank letters or statements do not prove sustainable income, just a snapshot of one's circumstances, and that is all that is required.  Those with variable income should manage it to satisfy Thailand's legal requirements.

[bangkokbonecollector]

14 minutes ago, treetops said:

It was never a permanent stay visa as you've just found out.  How you interpreted it is neither here nor there.

I was never really looking for that, I like to travel but surely a single father taking care of a thai child with a monthly income coming from abroad into a thai bank account should be e bloody nough to be giving some sort of permanent visa until the kid is 18 or 21. I just want to clarify a little more about myself, I've been here for frickin 18years, I've had a business here for a while and did the 1 year extensions, I get it, I understand what you are all saying. Pom chowjai naaaaaa 

Edited September 3, 2020 by bangkokbonecollector

[treetops]

23 minutes ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

I was never really looking for that, I like to travel but surely a single father taking care of a thai child with a monthly income coming from abroad into a thai bank account should be e bloody nough to be giving some sort of permanent visa until the kid is 18 or 21.

I tend to agree, but I've got a Western viewpoint.  When I'm away from home I know I have to stick by the local rules.  We Westerners might like to think we're always right but there's nothing to say our way of thinking is more appropriate than anyone else's.

Edited September 3, 2020 by treetops

[Phillip9]

1 hour ago, ICELANDMAN said:

Yes you have right for married Philippine I check now, and now for many I think is so later change wife

It's never too late to change your wife.  I've done it twice already.  ????

[david555]

32 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

It's never too late to change your wife.  I've done it twice already.  ????

And where  ….the "transfer costs" reasonable...? ????

[BritTim]

37 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

It's never too late to change your wife.  I've done it twice already.  ????

It is difficult to get a divorce from a Philippine lady, and recent law changes make it potentially very hazardous to try to abandon her.

[CANSIAM]

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Bear in mind that while there is no law against border runs, ME visas were not designed with the intention that they would be used in that manner; they are designed for people who make multiple separate trips here, with genuine gaps in between, and the "border run" approach is basically a loophole. 

 

So no reason for Immigration to view inability to do border runs as a legitimate problem; from their standpoint people living here full time should get annual extensions of stay.  "I can't afford to meet the financial requirement"  will get zero sympathy as the government does not want retirees here who lack the minimum required funds.

They should start looking at retirees who DO meet the financial requirements stuck abroad....

[Pattaya Spotter]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

5 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It may be legal...but it's certainly against the spirit of the visa laws and regulations. They are finding this out to their detriment now.

Where/how is this "spirit" defined?  Does it have an oracle we can consult? 

  

Commons sense and the ordinary meaning of the words in the regulations.