UK PM Johnson appeals to party for support over controversial bill

[bannork]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

How can anyone answer that Mavideol, none of us are lawyers, but even lawyers are finding it a moot subject, no two lawyers say the same thing. That said, the UK is sick and tired of Barniers threats, he is certainly not negotiating in good faith, nor has he ever. He has to realise that the UK has left the EU and if he cannot accept that we do not want to be tied to EU regs and regulations, he has a very big problem. However he did concede that UK waters were sovereign but we didn't have a say who fishes them, the man is either a big bully or a fool, take your pick.

Boris is doing what is best for the UK and that is why the Euros and remainers don't like it, and by Boris standing up to the bullies it gives him more power to his elbow.

 

It's already been answered by many lawyers, yes the UK will break the law, just refer to the Vienna Convention, crystal clear, international law overrides national law.

Boris and Cummings are seriously damaging the UK's reputation and economic prospects, hopefully even the Tory party backers will have had enough of their nonsense.

[evadgib]

45 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

really ??? instead of your non sense why don't you proof me wrong, just answer yes or no nothing else, can you do that?

in regards to the UK intention to amended the EU agreement bill, is England trying to brake the law   YES or NO

No.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, bannork said:

It's already been answered by many lawyers, yes the UK will break the law, just refer to the Vienna Convention, crystal clear, international law overrides national law.

Boris and Cummings are seriously damaging the UK's reputation and economic prospects, hopefully even the Tory party backers will have had enough of their nonsense.

Boris and Cummings are not damaging anything, just because the EU are not getting all their own way, you don't like it. The UK is paramount in all of this, not the remainers pensions in Thailand. Boris is showing his metal and the remainers are throwing an iffy fit.????????????

[7by7]

There are several topics on this with many, many posts, so maybe this has already been asked and answered. If so, forgive me for asking it again.

 

The UK and EU signed an agreement based upon Johnson's 'oven ready' deal; which we all know was effectively May's deal with a few tweaks and the sell out of Northern Ireland.

 

Now Johnson is saying he's changed his mind and is not going to honour that agreement.

 

Yet, according to the Brexiteers, that is somehow the EU's fault! According to the Brexiteers it is the EU being bullies for expecting the UK to stick to the agreement!

 

So, my question is this; if Johnson didn't like the agreement, if that agreement is as bad for the UK as he now says it is; why did he sign it in the first place?

 

Also, as he is showing to the world how he and his government cannot be trusted, how will that help us achieve future trade agreements with others?

 

I know it was recently announced that we have signed a deal with Japan, but that still has to be approved by the Japanese parliament. Why should they approve it now that Johnson has shown the world that he and his government cannot be trusted?

Edited September 13, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[Mavideol]

15 minutes ago, evadgib said:

No.

truth hurts  555

[Mavideol]

35 minutes ago, vogie said:

How can anyone answer that Mavideol, none of us are lawyers, but even lawyers are finding it a moot subject, no two lawyers say the same thing. That said, the UK is sick and tired of Barniers threats, he is certainly not negotiating in good faith, nor has he ever. He has to realise that the UK has left the EU and if he cannot accept that we do not want to be tied to EU regs and regulations, he has a very big problem. However he did concede that UK waters were sovereign but we didn't have a say who fishes them, the man is either a big bully or a fool, take your pick.

Boris is doing what is best for the UK and that is why the Euros and remainers don't like it, and by Boris standing up to the bullies it gives him more power to his elbow.

 

Vogie, can you please take the time to careful read the articles of the Vienna Convention

Edited September 13, 2020 by Mavideol

[bannork]

24 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris and Cummings are not damaging anything, just because the EU are not getting all their own way, you don't like it. The UK is paramount in all of this, not the remainers pensions in Thailand. Boris is showing his metal and the remainers are throwing an iffy fit.????????????

You have no idea.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

You have no idea.

Right back atcha bannork. 

[Rookiescot]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

Right back atcha bannork. 

Vogie how can you defend the UK government breaking an agreement that Johnson himself said was a great deal. Why did he sign it if it was a bad deal? Why did he tell everyone in a general election that it was a great oven ready deal if it was not?

What happened to no deal is better than a bad deal?

[Rookiescot]

45 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris and Cummings are not damaging anything, just because the EU are not getting all their own way, you don't like it. The UK is paramount in all of this, not the remainers pensions in Thailand. Boris is showing his metal and the remainers are throwing an iffy fit.????????????

The falling pound has caused a great deal of strife for many UK pensioners here in Thailand.

Good to know you dont care about them.

Wait till January. When Brexit really hits the UK hard. 

But dont come on here expecting sympathy because of rampant inflation and a contracting economy.

[herfiehandbag]

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

I also do appreciate our discussion on this BTW, it is honest and without the usual vitriol. But what is the point I wonder, see the 2 + pages of vitriol after your post. See how people react to posts with which they disagree.

I think that you must bear in mind the depth of feeling, on both sides, within the UK at the moment. The decision to leave the EU has not been accepted by a vociferous alliance of interests within the UK.  Notwithstanding the results of the referendum and several subsequent elections, they continue (as is their right) to oppose the UK's departure from the EU. This at times visceral opposition leads to a deal of vitriol, from both sides of the argument. There are those from the continent who are always happy to add fire to the flames - indeed the last two or three hours have seen a number of posts (from one of your fellow countrymen as it happens) who with his usual mix of wild claims to interpret the motives behind peoples posts, and "wobbly logic" when challenged or engaged in an argument, has poured lots of vitriol into the thread!

 

To return to the matter of the division within the UK, how can it be healed? I confess I cannot see a way at present. The "democratic game" in a parliamentary democracy has always relied on the losing side accepting that the government has a mandate; however the anti Brexit camp in many cases will not accept the decision to leave the EU, either through the referendum or subsequent elections. The debate has been stalled, at an impasse for several years now. I cannot see a way out. That breeds a deal of bitterness on both sides, which is reflected in the "vitriol" we are speaking about.

 

Personally I am a (not uncritical) supporter of the UK leaving the EU. I am not a rabid Brexiteer, red white and blue in tooth and claw, as some would perhaps paint me, I can understand and have sympathy with some of the arguments for remaining within the EU, but I think on balance that it very much in the medium and long term interests of the UK to leave. My view has prevailed, through a variety of democratic exercises within the UK over the last four years, and I don't see how, or why, those decisions should be reversed in line with the views of those who lost the argument in the democratic process.

 

Impasse.

[3NUMBAS]

Trade war looms with Champagne caught in the crossfire

MAJOR European brands could find themselves targeted by the UK if Brexit talks turn into a trade war with the EU.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1334921/brexit-news-eu-trade-deal-european-brands-import

the Sunday Express can reveal the Government is looking at how to respond if Brussels goes through with threats to punish Britain over plans to override the Withdrawal Agreement. A Whitehall source has confirmed that "a trade war is a concern" and that ministers are "considering all options" - but only if the EU initiates the hostilities. This could mean that German carmakers BMW and Mercedes, Italian fashion house Gucci, French wine including Champagne and Irish beef could all have access to the British market impeded.

 

 

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

I think that you must bear in mind the depth of feeling, on both sides, within the UK at the moment. The decision to leave the EU has not been accepted by a vociferous alliance of interests within the UK.  Notwithstanding the results of the referendum and several subsequent elections, they continue (as is their right) to oppose the UK's departure from the EU. This at times visceral opposition leads to a deal of vitriol, from both sides of the argument. There are those from the continent who are always happy to add fire to the flames - indeed the last two or three hours have seen a number of posts (from one of your fellow countrymen as it happens) who with his usual mix of wild claims to interpret the motives behind peoples posts, and "wobbly logic" when challenged or engaged in an argument, has poured lots of vitriol into the thread!

 

To return to the matter of the division within the UK, how can it be healed? I confess I cannot see a way at present. The "democratic game" in a parliamentary democracy has always relied on the losing side accepting that the government has a mandate; however the anti Brexit camp in many cases will not accept the decision to leave the EU, either through the referendum or subsequent elections. The debate has been stalled, at an impasse for several years now. I cannot see a way out. That breeds a deal of bitterness on both sides, which is reflected in the "vitriol" we are speaking about.

 

Personally I am a (not uncritical) supporter of the UK leaving the EU. I am not a rabid Brexiteer, red white and blue in tooth and claw, as some would perhaps paint me, I can understand and have sympathy with some of the arguments for remaining within the EU, but I think on balance that it very much in the medium and long term interests of the UK to leave. My view has prevailed, through a variety of democratic exercises within the UK over the last four years, and I don't see how, or why, those decisions should be reversed in line with the views of those who lost the argument in the democratic process.

 

Impasse.

Yes, seems a stalemate.

 

Your arguments against one person here can easily be reversed against some of the brexiteers. Also there a stalemate.

Edited September 13, 2020 by stevenl

[vogie]

39 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Vogie how can you defend the UK government breaking an agreement that Johnson himself said was a great deal. Why did he sign it if it was a bad deal? Why did he tell everyone in a general election that it was a great oven ready deal if it was not?

What happened to no deal is better than a bad deal?

Quite easy, a remainer parliament painted Boris into a corner and now the paint has dried Boris can walk anywhere he wants, and is. He is putting the interest of the UK first and the remainers don't like it.

[vogie]

39 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The falling pound has caused a great deal of strife for many UK pensioners here in Thailand.

Good to know you dont care about them.

Wait till January. When Brexit really hits the UK hard. 

But dont come on here expecting sympathy because of rampant inflation and a contracting economy.

Don't try the sympathy vote with me rookie, I have been around the block too many times.

 

[Rookiescot]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

Quite easy, a remainer parliament painted Boris into a corner and now the paint has dried Boris can walk anywhere he wants, and is. He is putting the interest of the UK first and the remainers don't like it.

But Johnson was the one with the paintbrush. This was his deal.

You cannot ignore the fact he was claiming it was a great deal after he signed it.

[3NUMBAS]

dealing with the EU is like dealing with snakes so the PM needs every tool as his disposal to outwit them snakes

[Rookiescot]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Don't try the sympathy vote with me rookie, I have been around the block too many times.

 

And you will keep going round that block. Because of Brexit.

I am OK. I dont have a UK state pension. My money comes from elsewhere. So the fall in the pound has been manageable for me.

However there are a lot of guys here living only on their state pension and the actions of you guys voting for Brexit has had a massive impact on them.

You did that. You voted for that.

The hardships those guys face is because of you and the rest of your Brexiteer chums. 

Come January though. It will be you who is hit hard in the pocket. Lets see how well that sits with you. 

I will sit here in the shade. Take a swig of beer and say "Well you get what you vote for".

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And you will keep going round that block. Because of Brexit.

I am OK. I dont have a UK state pension. My money comes from elsewhere. So the fall in the pound has been manageable for me.

However there are a lot of guys here living only on their state pension and the actions of you guys voting for Brexit has had a massive impact on them.

You did that. You voted for that.

The hardships those guys face is because of you and the rest of your Brexiteer chums. 

Come January though. It will be you who is hit hard in the pocket. Lets see how well that sits with you. 

I will sit here in the shade. Take a swig of beer and say "Well you get what you vote for".

Or...pieces of 8.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

So you lied. Just like Johnson.

Pretty much, it got me a good price though and Boris will do the best for the UK. That's life, unless you live in Narnia of course.

[CorpusChristie]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

However there are a lot of guys here living only on their state pension and the actions of you guys voting for Brexit has had a massive impact on them.

You did that. You voted for that.

The Pound was over valued before Brexit and it needed to devalue , the Baht has also gained strength and that is nothing to do with Brexit .

  Are you saying the strong Baht is because the UK left the EU ? 

It was also the uncertainty that caused the Pound to fall , the 3 years of the Remainers trying to get the vote overturned 

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The Pound was over valued before Brexit and it needed to devalue , the Baht has also gained strength and that is nothing to do with Brexit .

  Are you saying the strong Baht is because the UK left the EU ? 

It was also the uncertainty that caused the Pound to fall , the 3 years of the Remainers trying to get the vote overturned 

The pound was overvalued? Where did you dream that up from? The pound is valued at what the money markets deem it to be worth. Oh wait yeah. Saying the pound was overvalued is a cute little way of saying the reason it fell like a stone after the brexit result was nothing to do with the Brexit result it was simply a market correction. ????

Seriously?

And do tell. Why has it been in freefall for the last week? Nothing to do with a no deal Brexit being almost certain. Nope. Nothing to see here. Just another re-calibration of the overvalued pound. Not just against the baht. Its fell against the euro too.

Now what does that tell you about how the money markets think Brexit is going to impact the pound and the euro?

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

The pound was overvalued? Where did you dream that up from? The pound is valued at what the money markets deem it to be worth. Oh wait yeah. Saying the pound was overvalued is a cute little way of saying the reason it fell like a stone after the brexit result was nothing to do with the Brexit result it was simply a market correction. ????

Seriously?

And do tell. Why has it been in freefall for the last week? Nothing to do with a no deal Brexit being almost certain. Nope. Nothing to see here. Just another re-calibration of the overvalued pound. Not just against the baht. Its fell against the euro too.

Now what does that tell you about how the money markets think Brexit is going to impact the pound and the euro?

No, there were reports from before Brexit saying the Pound was over valued , we discussed  that previously in threads and the report was posted  on these forums .

  The Pound /Baht rate is irrelevant to people living in the UK

[Rookiescot]

13 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

No, there were reports from before Brexit saying the Pound was over valued , we discussed  that previously in threads and the report was posted  on these forums .

  The Pound /Baht rate is irrelevant to people living in the UK

Care to post a link to those reports?

[nauseus]

21 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The pound was overvalued? Where did you dream that up from? The pound is valued at what the money markets deem it to be worth. Oh wait yeah. Saying the pound was overvalued is a cute little way of saying the reason it fell like a stone after the brexit result was nothing to do with the Brexit result it was simply a market correction. ????

Seriously?

And do tell. Why has it been in freefall for the last week? Nothing to do with a no deal Brexit being almost certain. Nope. Nothing to see here. Just another re-calibration of the overvalued pound. Not just against the baht. Its fell against the euro too.

Now what does that tell you about how the money markets think Brexit is going to impact the pound and the euro?

Freefall? No. Just the usual false sentiment and speculation. 

[puck2]

51 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

dealing with the EU is like dealing with snakes so the PM needs every tool as his disposal to outwit them snakes

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by puck2
from German magazine: SPON

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Freefall? No. Just the usual false sentiment and speculation. 

Yes thats it Nauseus mate. Its not really falling in value is it?

What do these money market speculators know? So called experts. 

Where were they at Agincourt? Or Dunkirk? Or Rorke's Drift?

Yes thats right mate. Brexiteers know the truth. These so called experts dont know anything. Which one of them saw corona coming?

TVF Brexiteers know the truth.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Quite easy, a remainer parliament painted Boris into a corner and now the paint has dried Boris can walk anywhere he wants, and is. He is putting the interest of the UK first and the remainers don't like it.

 It wasn't your so called Remainer Parliament which signed the withdrawal agreement on the 24th January 2020; it was Johnson with his 50 seat majority!

 

It wasn't your so called Remainer Parliament which went into the last GE saying they had an oven ready deal with the EU; it was Johnson.

 

Johnson and his puppet master lied to us in 2016; and they're still at it.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

I once claimed a Morris Marina was a great car to a guy I sold it to, when in actual fact it was a bag of knackers. 

 

But would you have been able to sell another car to him, or one to any of his mates after he told them how you screwed him?

 

Been very difficult for you.

 

Just as Johnson will find it difficult to get other countries to trust him enough to sign deals with him now that he's reneged on this one!

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, Susco said:

Now you know why has that avatar. They are cut out of the same wood lol

 

From his confession, maybe he should change his avatar to this: