Trump and Biden clash over Western wildfires as blazes become election issue

[webfact]

Trump and Biden clash over Western wildfires as blazes become election issue

By Trevor Hunnicutt and Jeff Mason

 

A fire damaged fire truck sits in the aftermath of the Beachie Creek fire in Detroit, Oregon, U.S., September 14, 2020. REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton

 

WILMINGTON, Del./MCLELLAN PARK, Calif. (Reuters) - Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden on Monday called President Donald Trump a "climate arsonist" for failing to acknowledge the role of global warming in the Western wildfires, while Trump said forest management was the key to controlling the blazes.

 

Wildfires across Oregon, California and Washington state have destroyed thousands of homes and a half-dozen small towns since August, scorching more than 4 million acres (1.6 million hectares) and killing more than two dozen people.

 

Biden, slammed by Republicans for not visiting disaster areas, spoke from his home state of Delaware on the threat of extreme weather that climate scientists have said is supercharging fires.

 

The Republican president, who trails Biden in national polls ahead of the Nov. 3 election, met with firefighters and officials in California after Democrats blasted the president for remaining mostly silent about the largest wildfires in state history.

 

"I think this is more of a management situation," Trump said, when asked by a reporter if climate change was a factor behind the fires, saying many other countries were not facing a similar problem. "They don't have problems like this. They have very explosive trees, but they don't have problems like this."

 

He said forest management changes were something that could be tackled quickly, whereas climate change would take more time.

 

"When you get into climate change, well is India going to change its ways? And is China going to change its ways? And Russia? Is Russia going to change its ways?" he said after landing in McLellan Park, California.

 

'IT'LL GET COOLER'

Trump has referred to climate change as a "hoax' and in 2017 pulled the United States out of the Paris accord that laid out an international approach to global warming, while Biden says climate change is on his list of major crises facing the United States.

 

Calling Trump a "climate arsonist," Biden said: "If we have four more years of Trump's climate denial, how many suburbs will be burned by wildfires? How many suburban neighborhoods will have been flooded out?"

 

Biden was referring to Trump's focus on suburban voters and his charge that the former vice president would bring chaos to their communities by changing policy on low-income housing. Trump has struck a "law-and-order" theme during a wave of anti-racism protests.

 

California Governor Gavin Newsom acknowledged that his state had not done enough to manage forests and has acknowledged that over 100 years of fire suppression has allowed fuel to build up.

 

But he said global warming was driving fires, reminding Trump that 57 percent of forests in the state were under federal management.

 

“We come from a perspective humbly where we submit the science is in and observed evidence is self-evident: that climate change is real, and that is exacerbating this,” the Democratic governor said during a meeting with the president.

 

Trump, who has authorized federal disaster aid for both California and Oregon, questioned that science.

 

“It’ll start getting cooler, you just watch,” he said. “I don’t think science knows.”

 

Trump's administration has waged a series of legal battles with Democratic-run California, the most-populous U.S. state, on a variety of issues including immigration and environmental policy. The state for its part has sued his administration more than 100 times. Trump lost badly in California in the 2016 election and is expected to fare poorly there in November.

 

The president and his administration have sought to pin the blame for the large wildfires on state officials, saying fuel-choked forests and scrub need to be thinned, fire breaks must be cut and flammable dead leaves cleared from forest floors.

 

ARSON ARREST

After four days of brutally hot, windy conditions in Oregon, the weekend brought calmer winds blowing inland from the Pacific Ocean, and cooler, moister weather that helped crews make headway against blazes that burned unchecked last week.

 

In Clackamas County south of Portland, Oregon relief crews dished out food to some of the tens of thousands of residents ordered to evacuate. Those residents faced the added challenge of gaining food and shelter during a pandemic.

 

Around Phoenix and Talent, some people set up food stations in parking lots, while others guarded homes from looters who tend to appear at dusk, according to a Reuters photographer.

 

A man was charged with arson on Friday for starting the blaze that burned towns and another man was arrested in Portland on Monday after he started six small fires that did not burn any structures, Portland police reported.

 

Police across Oregon have cautioned against "fake" posts blaming wildfires on left-wing anti-fascists or right-wing Proud Boy activists.

 

(Reporting by Jeff Mason and Trevor Hunnicutt; Additional reporting by Adrees Latif, Maria Caspani and Andrew Chung; Writing by Andrew Hay; Editing by Will Dunham, Grant McCool and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-09-15

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[twocatsmac]

Almost a new low for Biden calling Trump a climate arsonist but we all know the depths he can sink to.

I wonder if Biden was speaking from the basement again?

 

[RoadWarrior371]

1 minute ago, twocatsmac said:

Almost a new low for Biden calling Trump a climate arsonist but we all know the depths he can sink to.

I wonder if Biden was speaking from the basement again?

 

Of course it's Trumps fault.  Look at the liberal desperation just on this board, and multiply that nation-wide.  We are witnessing a liberal melt-down. ????

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

Of course it's Trumps fault.  Look at the liberal desperation just on this board, and multiply that nation-wide.  We are witnessing a liberal melt-down. ????

It is his fault for being a denialist and taking no action in response from it.

He also is really really bad at compassion to suffering Americans especially if they are not in red or swing states.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.  

[Mama Noodle]

It’s disturbing to me that the people living in the northwest and western USA continue to vote for politicians who let their states burn every year from wildfires even after its documented that they’ve drastically reduced their forest management practices. They’ll sit around blaming climate change while doing nothing substantial to stop the problem. 

[TopDeadSenter]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Trump has referred to climate change as a "hoax' and in 2017 pulled the United States out of the Paris accord that laid out an international approach to global warming

 As far as I'm aware, Trump's stance is that climate change that can be fixed with higher taxes and more socialism is a "hoax", and I agree with him. Everybody recognises there are natural cycles and rhythms at play. Super difficult to find accurate reporting on his actual words and thoughts, clearly more fun to run with hysterical hyperbole, but here is one. Wise words from the President, not someone you would want to try selling snake oil too.

 

“I don’t think it’s a hoax. I think there’s probably a difference. But I don’t know that it’s man-made. I will say this: I don’t want to give trillions and trillions of dollars. I don’t want to lose millions and millions of jobs.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/trump-climate-change-no-hoax-but-may-not-be-man-made-1.3663931

[Tug]

1 hour ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

Of course it's Trumps fault.  Look at the liberal desperation just on this board, and multiply that nation-wide.  We are witnessing a liberal melt-down. ????

Ha ha just chuckle at this lol anyway just so you know most of the fires are on federal lands and just who represents that branch at the moment?yup you guessed it mr climate denier himself Donald John trump he’s more worried about the short term economics than the wellbeing of the United States enough allready let’s get a TEAM of adults in charge preferably ones without mental illnesses 

[Mama Noodle]

15 minutes ago, Tug said:

Ha ha just chuckle at this lol anyway just so you know most of the fires are on federal lands and just who represents that branch at the moment?yup you guessed it mr climate denier himself Donald John trump he’s more worried about the short term economics than the wellbeing of the United States enough allready let’s get a TEAM of adults in charge preferably ones without mental illnesses 

 

Facts first:

 

Quote

States have legal authority to manage federal lands within their borders to the extent Congress has given them such authority.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44267.pdf

[meechai]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Calling Trump a "climate arsonist," Biden said:

 "If we have four more years of Trump's climate denial, how many suburbs will be burned by wildfires?

555

If you vote for Trump "you ain't black" & you are a "climate arsonist"

Keep them coming Joe ....your a laugh a minute ????????

[englishoak]

Its got nothing to do with climate change btw, thats just the political line. 

 

Bad or little to none forestry management for more than a decade is what is to blame.  If you dont do controlled burns in a fire prone  region there will be no natural firebreaks the resulting fires will spread far more and California is the worst of the worst at dumb green regulations that often make things much much worse..... 

 

Nature grows, nature dies and gets dry, unless someone clears away said tinder nature will do that too, with fire... better to manage with controlled fires than out of control ones. 

 

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, englishoak said:

Its got nothing to do with climate change btw, thats just the political line. 

 

Bad or little to none forestry management for more than a decade is what is to blame.  If you dont do controlled burns in a fire prone  region there will be no natural firebreaks the resulting fires will spread far more and California is the worst of the worst at dumb green regulations that often make things much much worse..... 

 

Nature grows, nature dies and gets dry, unless someone clears away said tinder nature will do that too, with fire... better to manage with controlled fires than out of control ones. 

 

It gets worse than that. They not only neglect the forests but make harvesting any of it illegal. Some of that dead fall is perfectly marketable timber. Then you have the cities in CA sucking the water from everywhere they can. They are using it now to douse the fires. 

 

Most of the species out west rely on fire to propagate. The cones do not open and release seeds in the absence of fire. 

 

If the thesis of the Californian is that it is climate change, they are right. They are the very people causing it. The Colorado river runs dry before it hits Baja CA, look at Oroville and the reservoirs they build for water, such projects have disastrous effects. 

 

Make having a swimming pool in CA illegal. You can put away the rakes (I am talking about responsible logging actually) at this point because it is too late for fire breaks. 

 

Californians do not want a single tree cut down but suck the water out of every crevice. Nature is indifferent, if Californians won't thin the forests there will sooner rather than later be no forests left. As the forests get smaller every year localized climate change will become more severe. 

 

The best time for forest management was decades ago the second best time is today. They simply don't get it.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Mama Noodle said:

It’s disturbing to me that the people living in the northwest and western USA continue to vote for politicians who let their states burn every year from wildfires even after its documented that they’ve drastically reduced their forest management practices. They’ll sit around blaming climate change while doing nothing substantial to stop the problem. 

The majority of forested land is owned by Federal government, what has the trump administration done to reduce risk of fires and increase resources for firefighting?

[Cryingdick]

5 minutes ago, simple1 said:

The majority of forested land is owned by Federal government, what has the trump administration done to reduce risk of fires and increase resources for firefighting?

Much of the land is state forest and has to be managed in conjunction. If you do not have access through state land you can not do anything. CA is notorious for not allowing access. These are remote valleys.

 

I don't understand your point unless you are suggesting more aggressive logging. Trump would be happy to oblige you.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cryingdick

[simple1]

 

14 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Much of the land is state forest and has to be managed in conjunction. If you do not have access through state land you can not do anything. CA is notorious for not allowing access. These are remote valleys.

 

I don't understand your point unless you are suggesting more aggressive logging. Trump would be happy to oblige you.

 

The point is trump takes no responsibility, blames others without empirical evidence. If there are issues with access, trump 'the deal maker' should have resolved the issues by negotiation.

Edited September 15, 2020 by simple1

[JCauto]

 

28 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

It gets worse than that. They not only neglect the forests but make harvesting any of it illegal. Some of that dead fall is perfectly marketable timber. Then you have the cities in CA sucking the water from everywhere they can. They are using it now to douse the fires. 

 

Most of the species out west rely on fire to propagate. The cones do not open and release seeds in the absence of fire. 

 

If the thesis of the Californian is that it is climate change, they are right. They are the very people causing it. The Colorado river runs dry before it hits Baja CA, look at Oroville and the reservoirs they build for water, such projects have disastrous effects. 

 

Make having a swimming pool in CA illegal. You can put away the rakes (I am talking about responsible logging actually) at this point because it is too late for fire breaks. 

 

Californians do not want a single tree cut down but suck the water out of every crevice. Nature is indifferent, if Californians won't thin the forests there will sooner rather than later be no forests left. As the forests get smaller every year localized climate change will become more severe. 

 

The best time for forest management was decades ago the second best time is today. They simply don't get it.

We don't agree on much I've noticed, but we're in accordance here.

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

The point is trump takes no responsibility, blames others without empirical evidence. If there are issues with access, trump 'the deal maker' should have resolved the issues by negotiation.

They wouldn't accept Trump's solution. The area should have been selectively logged providing billions of dollars and jobs. People in Cali are tree huggers and would say Trump raped the forests. The result is now nothing is left. Billions of trees have died and there is no value.

 

Wait until it begins to rain and the mud slides come.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cryingdick

[simple1]

4 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

They wouldn't accept Trump's solution. The area should have been selectively logged providing billions of dollars and jobs. People in Cali are tree huggers and would say Trump raped the forests. The result is now nothing is left. Billions of trees have died and there is no value.

 

Wait until it begins to rain and the mud slides come.

trump claims he's the best deal maker ever - why doesn't he prove the claim - deal makers view objections as opportunity - has trump even tried to negotiate / resolve the issues other than blaming?

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

trump claims he's the best deal maker ever - why doesn't he prove the claim - deal makers view objections as opportunity - has trump even tried to negotiate / resolve the issues other than blaming?

 

Trump doesn't personally rake the forests or oversee them. Want somebody to blame let's go with Gavin. Ask him why in drought conditions why swimming pools are allowed. Ask him if the Colorado river dries up in the desert. Ask him why he allows agriculture to destroy the environment. Ask him why he think expensive gasoline cancels this all out. 

 

95% of California's land area should be a national park. You think Trump could do that?

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cryingdick

[Fat is a type of crazy]

51 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Much of the land is state forest and has to be managed in conjunction. If you do not have access through state land you can not do anything. CA is notorious for not allowing access. These are remote valleys.

 

I don't understand your point unless you are suggesting more aggressive logging. Trump would be happy to oblige you.

I heard today that 97 per cent of forests in those states are federal land. So one would think it is fairly accessible but I don't know the details.  Don't have to log it all but take reasonable action rather than finding a way to blame democrats.

It's just demoralising when a president says 'It'll get cooler' just like 'The Coronavirus will go away'. He bases it on nothing but what he feels at that moment. What he thinks is best for him.

Surely the vast majority believe it's getting hotter.

Doing something doesn't have to mean destroying the economy or holding hands and singing  kumbaya. Denial isn't a solution.  

Edited September 15, 2020 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I heard today that 97 per cent of forest is federal land. So one would think it is fairly accessible but I don't know the details.  Don't have to log it all but take reasonable action rather than finding a way to blame democrats.

It's just demoralising when a president says 'It'll get cooler' just like 'The Coronavirus will go away'. He bases it on nothing but what he feels at that moment. What he thinks is best for him.

Surely the vast majority believe it's getting hotter.

Doing something doesn't have to mean destroying the economy or holding hands and singing  kumbaya. Denial isn't a solution.  

The percent that is normally ceded to the state though although a smaller percentage tends to have the roads and infrastructure. After that you reach the high Sierra. The federal government usually administers that. California passes laws that make logging by even helicopter illegal. 

 

I would also like to know 97% of what is federal land? I come from a county in Northern Minnesota that was/is 90% federalists forest. Land is expensive.. However before you get to the national forest there is a lot ceded to the state, county, municipality. When they fail to manage it they tend to blame the people that gave it to them.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed along with replies.  

 

[Scott]

States have legal authority to manage federal lands within their borders to the extent Congress has given them such authority.

[Credo]

Forest have been managing themselves for millennia.   Fires start and they burn themselves out.  Now, they not only burn themselves out, they can't be put out with upwards of 16,000 firefighters and countless air support.   The reason is Climate Change.   The onset of the dry season is earlier and lasts longer.   The rainy season is shorter.   The snowpack in the Sierra's is less.   

We have more active hurricane seasons, more storms and greater intensity.   Each year it gets a little worse.   

 

[Cryingdick]

7 minutes ago, Credo said:

Forest have been managing themselves for millennia.   Fires start and they burn themselves out.  Now, they not only burn themselves out, they can't be put out with upwards of 16,000 firefighters and countless air support.   The reason is Climate Change.   The onset of the dry season is earlier and lasts longer.   The rainy season is shorter.   The snowpack in the Sierra's is less.   

We have more active hurricane seasons, more storms and greater intensity.   Each year it gets a little worse.   

 

Exactly. It's the Californians that are/have a problem.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cryingdick

[Credo]

6 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Exactly. It's the Californians that are/have a problem.

It is well beyond California.  You might note that Washington state, Oregon and Arizona are also experiencing major fires.   

You might also not ignore what was said.  This is the worst fire season, ever.  It's the hottest summer ever.  It's also the driest year ever.   That's called Climate Change.   

 

[Cryingdick]

4 minutes ago, Credo said:

It is well beyond California.  You might note that Washington state, Oregon and Arizona are also experiencing major fires.   

You might also not ignore what was said.  This is the worst fire season, ever.  It's the hottest summer ever.  It's also the driest year ever.   That's called Climate Change.   

 

Maybe you don't remember Yellowstone, or th BWCA. This happens somewhere every year.It begins with a high wind. I know in Michigan, Minnesota, and all the way up to Maine, that this can happen anywhere on any given year.

 

We tend to manage our land a little better.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cryingdick

[Bluespunk]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

“It’ll start getting cooler, you just watch,” he said. “I don’t think science knows.”

 

trump’s statements  just get dumber and dumber. 
 

US West Coast fires: Trump fans flames of climate row in California https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54144651

Edited September 15, 2020 by Bluespunk
Link added

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

The guy’s statements  just get dumber and dumber. 

Let him dwell on his own stupidity. He mishandled climate change, pandemic, racial tension and the economy; issues most concerning to Americans. The hammer will fall on him this November. 

[spidermike007]

Trump will always be on the wrong side of history. That is just who and what he is. He is a relic and a dinosaur. 

 

Anyone who thinks that ten of the warmest years in recent history happening since 2005 is a coincidence, and is irrelevant, is burying their heads in the sand.

 

Trump is so completely sold out to corporate interests, there is nothing else that matters. Humanity? Quality of life in the future? Far less important than his corporate buddies making maximum profits now.