U.S. President Trump and Melania test positive for COVID-19

[steelepulse]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

There is a very easy way to assess it: the number of excess deaths.

Quote from the linked article:

"Besides visualizing excess mortality as a percentage difference, we can also look at the raw death counts as shown here in this chart. The raw death counts help give us a rough sense of scale: for example, the US suffered some 260,000 more deaths than the five-year average between 1 March and 16 August, compared to 169,000 confirmed COVID-19 deaths during that period."

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

 

What does it show?

- There are excess deaths. More people died than expected, and there is no other reason than covid-19 to explain it (I.e. no particular increase of regular flu deaths during this period)

- the number of official covid-19 deaths is well below the number of excess deaths. It shows it is likely that the number of covid-19 deaths has been underestimated.

It would be interesting to know how many people that didn't get necessary cancer treatments will die within the next year or two that could have been prevented.  It will be good to know if the number of additional suicides is taken into consideration, or swept under the rug.  How deaths by despair.  Deaths by cardiac events at home and not being able to go to hospital.  The list goes on and on of extra deaths due to the draconian measures imposed.

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

- There are excess deaths. More people died than expected, and there is no other reason than covid-19 to explain it (I.e. no particular increase of regular flu deaths during this period)

- the number of official covid-19 deaths is well below the number of excess deaths. It shows that the number of covid-19 deaths has been underestimated.

It will be interesting to see if there are less than average deaths in the following years. Since it's mostly elderly that would die of other causes in the next few years.

[Opl]

17 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

It will be interesting to see if there are less than average deaths in the following years. Since it's mostly elderly that would die of other causes in the next few years.

it is interesting to measure how many lives are impacted by the losses due to COVID, how many children lost their financial support, can't afford to study, etc, etc.. 

It's not just "it is what it is"

Edited October 4, 2020 by Opl

[Kwaibill]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

What were you suggesting?  You posted:

 

"How do you know that any of those terminal cancer-sufferers would have lived longer?  When a cancer-sufferer dies as a result of having cancer, the cause of death is cancer regardless of whether they had contracted Covid-19 and for anyone to claim that Covid killed them when it didn't is just daft, or corrupt."

 

Are you now accepting that people who died with pre-existing conditions and Covid 19 would have lived longer without the virus?

It is up to the attending medical authority to determine if their patient would have lived longer.

Tired of those armchair "doctors" second guessing actual medical people who spent years developing their expertise. With the possible exception of the "alien sperm" doctor and the radiologist who has been quacking about "herd immunity".

[ChouDoufu]

7 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Interesting fact, the whitehouse currently has more active Covid cases than New Zealand.

and more new cases than all of china!

 

winning!

[Kwaibill]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

What were you suggesting?  You posted:

 

"How do you know that any of those terminal cancer-sufferers would have lived longer?  When a cancer-sufferer dies as a result of having cancer, the cause of death is cancer regardless of whether they had contracted Covid-19 and for anyone to claim that Covid killed them when it didn't is just daft, or corrupt."

 

Are you now accepting that people who died with pre-existing conditions and Covid 19 would have lived longer without the virus?

It is up to the attending medical authority to determine if their patient would have lived longer.

Tired of those armchair "doctors" second guessing actual medical people who spent years developing their expertise. With the possible exception of the "alien sperm" doctor and the radiologist who has been quacking about "herd immunity".

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

And to lighten the mood here are some news from the Twilight Zone:

 

'A Fox News host has cast Trump as a war hero who got the coronavirus because he 'put himself on the line'.

 

"Fox News host Greg Gutfeld painted President Donald Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis as a patriotic act, claiming the president was infected because he "put himself on the line" and "was doing it for us."

Juan Williams, one of Gutfeld's co-hosts on "The Five," countered that Trump had repeatedly broken public health guidelines and had downplayed the pandemic, calling Trump "a man who was very clear in saying that this was going to disappear magically."'

 

in that case he's not a war hero! 

the "invisible enemy®" got 'im!

 

just as trump likes heroes that don't get captured,

then we should like candidates who don't get infected.

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

I'm from England. Maybe I should have added marked a cross at home and then put the ballot paper in the post.

 

What I was commenting on was the idea of an electoral college interpreting a ballot.

they electors/electoral college doesn't interpret ballots.  that's made for teevee theatre recount antics following court cases.

 

the college is there for two reasons.  the first is to give the smaller states some say in the outcome, otherwise the election would be decided by the largest states with huge populations.  it's to prevent tyranny of the majority.

 

the other reason is to put some space between the people (the mob) and the actual choosing of the president, to have experts in governance who would vote based on the merits of the candidates rather than their social media scores, and could overrule the majority in case a narcissistic poophole managed to win the popular vote.  (back to the drawing board)

[candide]

2 hours ago, steelepulse said:

It would be interesting to know how many people that didn't get necessary cancer treatments will die within the next year or two that could have been prevented.  It will be good to know if the number of additional suicides is taken into consideration, or swept under the rug.  How deaths by despair.  Deaths by cardiac events at home and not being able to go to hospital.  The list goes on and on of extra deaths due to the draconian measures imposed.

It takes about two years to get the results of the analysis of deaths/cause from the CDC. We'll get them in December 2022. 

For the time being, we can only assume that they are part of the 25% of excess deaths which are not counted as covid-19 deaths yet.

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

And to lighten the mood here are some news from the Twilight Zone:

 

'A Fox News host has cast Trump as a war hero who got the coronavirus because he 'put himself on the line'.

 

"Fox News host Greg Gutfeld painted President Donald Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis as a patriotic act, claiming the president was infected because he "put himself on the line" and "was doing it for us."

Juan Williams, one of Gutfeld's co-hosts on "The Five," countered that Trump had repeatedly broken public health guidelines and had downplayed the pandemic, calling Trump "a man who was very clear in saying that this was going to disappear magically."'

So that makes him a loser.

[Dumbastheycome]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

Just to be clear:  Are you saying that the people who died with Covid 19 and pre-existing  conditions would have died at exactly the same time if they had not had Covid 19?

Given that  syphilis can be a terminal disease due to neurological impact after many years of untreated  sufferance it  might be simpler to be generous?

[watthong]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

9 hours ago, watthong said:

These white labcoats said how proud and honored it was to care for 45. Yeah, pride and honor to care for Trump Vs. complete indifference to the 200K deaths of their fellow countrymen and women and children, many of which occurred due to the duplicity of the one they are so honored to be caring for. It caused me nausea to hear this. Wake up Americans, see how your taxpayer dollars are used against you.

I'm not gonna diss the doctors. They would make the same effort for any President. Any President is extremely important. Doctors are supposed to be apolitical and thats a good thing for them to be. It's not their fault that they are caring for the worst president in American history and an awful human being as well.

 

I'm fine with them doing their job, that's all well and good; what I condemn is their "apolitical" words at the press conference.

 

Willful ignorance IS political, that's taking a stance alright. Do I think that they have never discussed among themselves why the American covid death tolls are so high, and god forbid - who's responsible for that? No, I don't. Do I think that they have not been aware that thousands of their colleagues across the land are fighting the same battle as they are for the well being of that one single individual? No, I don't. The only difference is that their colleagues fought - as well as perished - trying to save the 200K plus now deceased Americans; and why did many of these colleagues die, because that one individual who they are now trying mightily to save had declared that PPE and face masks along with ventilators and other critical equipment were not needed and therefore not provided adequately.

 

In this context, the words of those top officials at Walter Reed are repulsive, obscene and above all immoral. I'm fine with folks wanting to thank them from the bottom of their heart for a job well done in caring for this "Individual One" because I believe in democracy. As an aside, Marie Antoinette must have thought she was "apolitical" when she said "let them eat cake" as the unwashed peasants came to town with their pitch fork demanding bread to feed their starving families.

Most unfortunate words ever spoken for a queen as the hoi polloi didn't think so.

 

 

[smylee52]

7 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

in that case he's not a war hero! 

the "invisible enemy®" got 'im!

 

just as trump likes heroes that don't get captured,

then we should like candidates who don't get infected.

 Brilliant .

Edited October 4, 2020 by smylee52

[Jingthing]

9 hours ago, DrTuner said:

It will be interesting to see if there are less than average deaths in the following years. Since it's mostly elderly that would die of other causes in the next few years.

Yes is all very historic in a very bad way, and certainly in the U.S. it is probably closer to the beginning than the end. The magical thinkers think once a vaccine starts to get released, it's instantly back to normal. In that sense, such new will probably make things worse.

 

Biden has an interesting fate. I'm assuming he will be president if 45 didn't give him the virus at the debate and the main part of his job will be cleaning up after the mess the Covidiot in Chief left. He's wanted to be president forever, but president in this situation is a questionable prize.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Jingthing

[heybruce]

9 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Given that  syphilis can be a terminal disease due to neurological impact after many years of untreated  sufferance it  might be simpler to be generous?

What has that got to do with anything?

[Dumbastheycome]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

What has that got to do with anything?

Probably nothing except I was distracted  by random consideration of the possibility that an obsessive adherence to an opinion that has little valid  basis may have a neurological impairment cause such as neurosyphilis.

[cmarshall]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes is all very historic in a very bad way, and certainly in the U.S. it is probably closer to the beginning than the end. The magical thinkers think once a vaccine starts to get released, it's instantly back to normal. In that sense, such new will probably make things worse.

 

Biden has an interesting fate. I'm assuming he will be president if 45 didn't give him the virus at the debate and the main part of his job will be cleaning up after the mess the Covidiot in Chief left. He's wanted to be president forever, but president in this situation is a questionable prize.

CEOs often welcome the opportunity to take over a formerly successful company that's been having losses lately, since it establishes a low base against which the positive impact of the new leadership will stand out in sharp contrast.  The path for Biden is clear:  lockdown the whole country for eight to ten weeks or so.  During that time staff up and train a national contact-tracing effort employing hundreds of thousands of the ten million currently unemployed.  Order companies, like Microsoft and Amazon, which have not been negatively impacted by the pandemic, to produce test kits by the tens of millions along with PPE.  Get consultation from the South Koreans, Taiwanese, and Chinese, among others.  Congress will allocate the money to save the economy.

 

Three months later, the virus should be whipped, just like it was in Wuhan and the rest of China. Biden and the Democratic Party will be heroes and the Republicans should be locked out of power for a generation.  

[Sujo]

Biden will inherit a poisoned chalis, best he can do is take it on the chin and set it up for his successor.

 

I wish him good luck. But why anyone would vote republican is beyond me, after gwb and now trump its obvious what a mess they leave.

 

The only repub worth a thought is kasitch but he had no chance as he was far too reasonable.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

4 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Biden will inherit a poisoned chalis, best he can do is take it on the chin and set it up for his successor.

 

I wish him good luck. But why anyone would vote republican is beyond me, after gwb and now trump its obvious what a mess they leave.

 

The only repub worth a thought is kasitch but he had no chance as he was far too reasonable.

Two republicans to look out for in the future are Dan Crenshaw and Tim Scott

They both speak impressively and find that line of supporting Trump but sounding intelligent and not losing their soul

[AndyFoxy]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Two republicans to look out for in the future are Dan Crenshaw and Tim Scott

They both speak impressively and find that line of supporting Trump but sounding intelligent and not losing their soul

Definitely. Quite like Cruz also.

[phetchy]

On 10/5/2020 at 3:22 PM, Sujo said:

Biden will inherit a poisoned chalis, best he can do is take it on the chin and set it up for his successor.

 

I wish him good luck. But why anyone would vote republican is beyond me, after gwb and now trump its obvious what a mess they leave.

 

The only repub worth a thought is kasitch but he had no chance as he was far too reasonable.

Is POTUS Harris beyond the realms of possibility?  Joe wins, gets sick or otherwise deemed incapable of holding office, and Kamala steps in.  Maybe a fait accompli?

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, phetchy said:

Is POTUS Harris beyond the realms of possibility?  Joe wins, gets sick or otherwise deemed incapable of holding office, and Kamala steps in.  Maybe a fait accompli?

 

The same goes for Pence, and yet you don't see all that much harping on that as if it's really gonna happen.

[dastakantattaka]

On 10/2/2020 at 7:07 AM, Jingthing said:

Not 99 percent of obese people his age. 

He has recovered, with no problem.

What will you say now?

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by dastakantattaka

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, dastakantattaka said:

He has recovered, with no problem.

What will you say now?

 

You have no idea about the long term damage to his organs particularly his lungs. I've already posted numerous times that he will most likely survive the acute phase. Cheers.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, dastakantattaka said:

He has recovered, with no problem.

What will you say now?

 

 

Did he test negative? When was that, exactly? What were the results of previous checks between the alleged time of catching Covid and being 'free' of it?

 

As to 'no problem' - you've no idea whether he's got any lingering issues. His words, or his staff's words on this is less than solid, even if elections weren't around the corner.

 

By the way, how's Melania doing?

[placeholder]

On 10/5/2020 at 3:29 PM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Two republicans to look out for in the future are Dan Crenshaw and Tim Scott

They both speak impressively and find that line of supporting Trump but sounding intelligent and not losing their soul

The thing is, for all their fine optics, they are very much in alignment with the policies of the Trump administration. In favor of eliminating obamacare and meaningful protection for those with preexisting conditions,  in favor of lowering taxes on the wealthy and corporations, in favor of tearing down environmental protections, climate change denialism, etc. There should be a lot less focus on candidates personal qualities, and a lot more on where they stand on the issues.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Did he test negative? When was that, exactly? What were the results of previous checks between the alleged time of catching Covid and being 'free' of it?

 

As to 'no problem' - you've no idea whether he's got any lingering issues. His words, or his staff's words on this is less than solid, even if elections weren't around the corner.

 

By the way, how's Melania doing?

And don't forget when the last negative test was. I am convinced it was several days before the rose garden event.

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Did he test negative? When was that, exactly? What were the results of previous checks between the alleged time of catching Covid and being 'free' of it?

 

As to 'no problem' - you've no idea whether he's got any lingering issues. His words, or his staff's words on this is less than solid, even if elections weren't around the corner.

 

By the way, how's Melania doing?

Here's a sentiment everyone should share in Melania's case:

Be Wellest!

[Sujo]

21 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Did he test negative? When was that, exactly? What were the results of previous checks between the alleged time of catching Covid and being 'free' of it?

 

As to 'no problem' - you've no idea whether he's got any lingering issues. His words, or his staff's words on this is less than solid, even if elections weren't around the corner.

 

By the way, how's Melania doing?

Last week melania was seen doing a jig.

 

When news came of trump leaving hospital she was last seen taking depression pills

 

[DrTuner]

46 minutes ago, Morch said:

Did he test negative? When was that, exactly?

Seems so, at least antigen test. @PressSec on Twitter. Not allowed to link.