What percent of Thai vocab do you know?

[BananaBandit]

I suppose a corresponding question would be:   What percent do you want to (make the effort to) know?     Of course, this will vary based on our respective goals.  Some of mine are:    comfortably reading newspapers, mags, and books.  I'd also like to be able to discern a writer's level of eloquence, attempts at humor, irony, etc...

 

At this juncture, I typically get the gist of most newspaper articles, but some sentences send me to the dictionary. Often, when searching for a definition, I just start to feel like there's an ocean of words in this language. Seems like it would take many many years to acquire a working vocabulary of this size, even without the  ราชาศัพท์ and คำศัพท์พระสงฆ์

Geezer, Hicks, some of you other old sages...Do you guys even bother with all these words?   Or do you feel there's a certain percentage of the vocab that suffices?

[mfd101]

In my case I would guess around 0.01374%.

[ChipButty]

This is to serious for a Sunday morning

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

In my case I would guess around 0.01374%.

Can you show your working for how you arrived at such an accurate guess please?

[bert bloggs]

money ,food ,i can count when my family speak i can very often get the gist of the conversation ,get lost when strangers speak .

[DaLa]

I'm pretty useless at language skills. Even after 11 years out here I only have basic food, travel, numbers etc. words. I find sentences very difficult and console myself in knowing that it is of more use for my Thai wife to be able to speak English.

 

My limited Thai is quite useful for our business back in the UK when we want to communicate during negotiations.

 

I do try to learn a few extra words occasionally and a strange side effect was when we went to France last year. I could recall my schoolboy French from over 50 years ago. I presume it's from an area of my brain not too saturated from Chang.

[Peterphuket]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

In my case I would guess around 0.01374%.

I'm much better with my 0.01299%, I hardly dare to say it, after more than 20 years living in Thailand.

But Thanglish for 100% perfect.

[EricTh]

@BananaBandit

 

Thai is actually not a single language but a merger of Thai, Sanskrit, Khmer and even Chinese. That's why the vocabulary is huge.

 

Most of the words come from two languages ie. Thai and Sanskrit with a sprinkle from Khmer and Chinese.

 

Thai teachers usually teach ONLY the formal words which nobody use except for news reporters and government officials. That's why I don't go to Thai language school anymore.

 

http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.com/2017/08/origin-of-thai-language.html

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by EricTh

[rumak]

Like in any language:   Knowing vocabulary is one thing.  Being able to put the words together in

a way that people want to listen to you is completely different. 

 

IMO  those who have made the effort ( and i believe that the most important thing in learning anything is effort) ....  those that have succeeded in getting to a level where communication with average thais

in normal situations is fairly easy....  the level of satisfaction and comfort one feels living here is greatly enhanced.

 

(and ones self esteem is rewarded as well )

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by rumak

[Peterw42]

The problem I have with Thai, isn't learning more words, its the fact that for every Thai word I learn there are 3-4 other words that sound identical. Every new word I learn seems to reduce my ability to use the language. If there is an imperceptible tonal difference between 3-4 different Thai words, my Aussie drawl is saying the other one, and I cant hear the difference either.

[Don Mega]

Enough to communicate with staff at work but asking for something at the 7/11 has the staff looking at my like I have 2 heads !!

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

Thai is actually not a single language but a merger of Thai, Sanskrit, Khmer and even Chinese. That's why the vocabulary is huge.

Whilst Thai has adopted lexis from other languages, it is a single language.  To assert otherwise is as mistaken as stating that English is not a single language because it has borrowed lexis from French, Latin, German, Swahili, Greek, Arabic, Chinese, Italian, and Spanish, to mention just a few.

 

And Thai's vocabulary isn't "huge".  It's actually quite small.  The RID has 20,002 entries.  Websters (English) dictionary has 470,000 entries - more than 20 times as many.  And a Korean dictionary (Woori Mal Saem) has even more than that at 1,100,373 words.

[trucking]

15 hours ago, rumak said:

Like in any language:   Knowing vocabulary is one thing.  Being able to put the words together in

a way that people want to listen to you is completely different. 

 

I agree with this. I have friends who know lots of words and the correct tone but when they try to speak they get tongue twisted.

[Lacessit]

I can write my first name in Thai. I can communicate with Thais on a reasonable level, although I frequently get lost when a Thai responds to me on the assumption I am fluent in Thai. If I stick to simple phrases that only require a simple response, I'm usually OK. Yesterday, I was able to ask where the swimming goggles were in Big C, and take in aisle directions.

It gets more difficult the older one gets, but old farts like me should stick with it, because it's excellent mental exercise for warding off Alzheimer's.

Problem is, a lot of the words up here in Chiang Rai are not Thai, but Lao.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Lacessit

[mfd101]

When my friends back in Oz ask how my Thai's coming along, I tell them that - as for many decades - my French both spoken & reading remains excellent, and I'm making good progress on improving my German vocabulary (which I've always found difficult), and I'm working on my Italian & Spanish reading-only.

 

They seem to find that funny for some reason. "So how's your French amongst the peasants there, Muz?"

[Jack Hna]

I have about 10% I speak Thai and can form sentences but I have never tried to learn or read the language. I just pick it up. I can sit with Thai men and have a discussion if all parties are trying to communicate. Few beers and a chat once in a while. I speak Thai to my son when he is naughty, he answers back in english.

[BananaBandit]

4 hours ago, Oxx said:

And Thai's vocabulary isn't "huge".  It's actually quite small.  The RID has 20,002 entries. 

What percent of the 20,000 do you know?

 

And what percent do you feel is worth making the effort to learn?

[Exploring Thailand]

5 hours ago, Oxx said:

And Thai's vocabulary isn't "huge".  It's actually quite small.  The RID has 20,002 entries. 

A quick google search suggests that the average native English speaker has a vocabulary of around 20,000 words, so that is indeed surprisingly small.

[ColeBOzbourne]

14 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

And what percent do you feel is worth making the effort to learn?

I know your question wasn't directed at me, but my opinion is that it's worth making the effort to learn all of them. Reality tells me that will not happen, but setting goals high is good. So then it comes down to learning vocabulary in order of priority. I want to learns words first that are commonly used, and those most useful to me in my specific circumstances. Less common words and those not so useful to me can be moved down the priority list to be learned in the future when I get to them.

 

There is a commonality for basic communication, but then also each person has their own specific circumstances. One guy on here a while back said he can describe in Thai all the ratios of different gears for his motorcycle. I wouldn't need to do that, but it was helpful in his life. I can name over a hundred animals in Thai, because that's something that interests me personally. I rarely manage to fit that into a conversation, but occasionally a local is impressed that I know the name of some animal that they don't know.

 

I probably know 3,000-4,000 words right now, so whatever percentage that is of the whole I don't know. I can form basic sentences, read pretty well, write a little, and hold on conversations with some people. I am fluent in Spanish and used to use it frequently for my employment. So if faced with a new Thai word and I can't decide if it's a priority to learn or not, I often think about whether I know that word in Spanish or not, and how often it was useful to me. If I don't know it in Spanish, and never felt the need to know it, then it moves down my priority list.

 

Most importantly for me, is that I just enjoy learning the language and look forward to studying every day. I just have to keep reminding myself that learning Thai is a marathon, not a sprint.

[jak2002003]

I am disappointed with myself because I have let my Thai language skills slip the last few years. 

 

I put a lot of effort into learning the language and got to a stage that I was able to communicate well and easily. I could also read well, although not understand a lot of it...if I read it to a Thai they could understand me.

 

But my closest Thai friends have gradually moved away and I started to go out and socialise less. We were planning to go back to the UK, so I stopped learning more Thai. 

 

Now I was shocked with how much I have forgotten when I start up a conversation with a Thai person. 

[cmarshall]

22 hours ago, Oxx said:

And Thai's vocabulary isn't "huge".  It's actually quite small.  The RID has 20,002 entries.  Websters (English) dictionary has 470,000 entries - more than 20 times as many.  And a Korean dictionary (Woori Mal Saem) has even more than that at 1,100,373 words.

I think the Thai lexicon probably has more than 20,000 entries.  Longdo.com gives these stats among others, which are suggestive of a larger size:

 

Other Thai Dictionaries
NECTEC Lexitron2 EN-TH: 82,383
NECTEC Lexitron2 TH-EN: 40,852
HOPE Studio EN-TH: 37,018
Nontri EN-TH: 22,333
Saikam JP-TH: 2,534

 

https://dict.longdo.com/page/stats

 

I've got more than 14,000 entries in my Thai Anki deck including words, phrases, expressions, synonyms, slang, abbreviations, etc.  Nevertheless, I encounter new words on nearly every page I read.  My guess is the RID is only a subset of the Thai language.  

 

I can probably recognize 60% to 70% of my Anki deck.  

[cmarshall]

3 hours ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

I know your question wasn't directed at me, but my opinion is that it's worth making the effort to learn all of them. Reality tells me that will not happen, but setting goals high is good.

Yep, that's the right attitude.  The higher we aim, the more we will achieve, for sure.

[Grumpy one]

I have enough skill in Thai to get in trouble 

Why is it easy to learn to swear but hard to learn other things in any language ????

So being a smart man I let my wife do the talking

[Oxx]

6 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

My guess is the RID is only a subset of the Thai language.  

 

Uh, the RID is the definition of Thai vocabulary.  It is the official, authoritative dictionary.  There are three supplements of new words that I didn't count, but that's not going to bump the numbers up very much.

 

LEXiTRON gives higher numbers because it has separate Thai entries for each corresponding English definition.  So, for example, จด is counted three times, as "write", "reach" and "be continguous".

 

As for Anki, I'm not familiar with it, but when you write "Thai Anki deck including words, phrases, expressions, synonyms, slang, abbreviations, etc." I presume that each of those is counted as a single entry, so the total not a count of Thai words.

[Oxx]

"What percent of Thai vocab do you know?" is actually a pretty meaningless question.  There's an enormous difference between the number of words one can recognise upon hearing or reading, and the number of words one can use productively (and correctly), either in speaking or in writing.  In the case of writing, one has more time to think, so can delve into the recesses of one's grey matter for more elegant or precise words.

 

Also, is it sufficient to count recognising a word and knowing a single meaning of it, or should one know all possible meanings and nuances before declaring that one knows it? Does one "know" the English word "kick" if one knows it can mean "to strike with one's foot"? Or does one also need to know it means "to give up an addictive substance", "the recoil from a gun", "a pleasurable thrill (e.g. from champagne)", "the indentation in the base of a bottle of wine"? 

[Aforek]

True that the difference between tones is not big, but in the context , even wrong tone can be understood ( if it's evident, so, not always ) 

not so much vocabulary, many words are a composition of other words, when for instance English or French ( languages that I know ) have a specific word

[rumak]

On 10/4/2020 at 1:26 PM, Peterw42 said:

The problem I have with Thai, isn't learning more words, its the fact that for every Thai word I learn there are 3-4 other words that sound identical. Every new word I learn seems to reduce my ability to use the language. If there is an imperceptible tonal difference between 3-4 different Thai words, my Aussie drawl is saying the other one, and I cant hear the difference either.

I am sure Thais are really shocked when you inform them in your aussie thai that you are going to

buy a tiger.     

or,  maybe they will just get it from the context ?????

[cmarshall]

5 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Uh, the RID is the definition of Thai vocabulary.  It is the official, authoritative dictionary.  There are three supplements of new words that I didn't count, but that's not going to bump the numbers up very much.

 

LEXiTRON gives higher numbers because it has separate Thai entries for each corresponding English definition.  So, for example, จด is counted three times, as "write", "reach" and "be continguous".

 

As for Anki, I'm not familiar with it, but when you write "Thai Anki deck including words, phrases, expressions, synonyms, slang, abbreviations, etc." I presume that each of those is counted as a single entry, so the total not a count of Thai words.

There is no such thing as an authoritative dictionary for any language.  There are some that are widely accepted, but since no one is in charge of the language there is no one to annoint any dictionary as authoritative.  Even the Adademie Francaise, that great destroyer of synonyms, has no jurisdiction at all over the Francophone world outside of France.

 

Anki is not a dictionary, just a flashcard program for memorization.  So, my Thai Anki deck has the words and phrases that I have encountered and then entered into it.  I cannot believe that in the few years I have been studying Thai I have encountered anything approximating two-thirds of the vocabulary particularly since I continue to encounter unfamiliar words on nearly every page of text I read.  

 

One can quibble about exactly how to count words, but 20,000 is just too small no matter who is making that claim.  I can't believe that any language spoken by sixty million people has as few as  20,000 words.  Even Irish Gaelic spoken by fewer than 140,000 people has at least 50,000 words.

Edited October 5, 2020 by cmarshall

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

I am sure Thais are really shocked when you inform them in your aussie thai that you are going to

buy a tiger.     

or,  maybe they will just get it from the context ?????

There is an example right there, the word for tiger and the word for a shirt sound the same

 

Shirt เสื้อ S̄eụ̄̂x

Tiger เสือ S̄eụ̄x

 

It could explain why I keep getting an ice cold shirt when I order a beer

[1FinickyOne]

If you are reading books and newspapers, you are doing very well... I can make out text messages in Thai. I am conversational. Never had any schooling. I don't really know the tones but I do know the different sounds of the words and I speak in sentences so if I miss a tone, they still get it - mostly.. 

 

The odd thing is that some people I can speak with all day w/no issues and other people, we can barely make things out... but most people - ok.