immigration department discriminating within the long stay expat community

[newnative]

    Makes absolutely no sense at all to require health insurance for THIS foreign retiree and not for THAT foreign retiree.  My Thai partner pointed out that O-A's are being punished for following the rules.  We knew we were going to be staying long-term in Thailand so we followed the Thai immigration rules and applied for our retirement visas in our home countries before we arrived in Thailand--which assigned us an O-A visa that now requires health insurance while not requiring it for other retirement visa types.

[pixelaoffy]

13 minutes ago, colinneil said:

What a load of cobblers, it clearly was not that bad, because you are still here, able to post.

How Do you about his service at the hospital? I seem to recall Mr Neil having his issues with Thai authorities.  We all have memories

[Old Croc]

21 hours ago, glegolo said:

The results showed that the majority of offenders were immigrants from neighboring Countries and short stay tourists. I don’t recall reading that long stay expats were even mentioned.

 

So why is a select group of long stay expats being financially penalized by the Immigration Department?

-----------------------------------------------------

What result??? I dont know where you get this "stuff" from?? So you seriously try to convience readers here that the thai gouverment has gone in, on each and every offender, and checked their passport (mind you that they are already gone from Thailand), to see what kind of VISA they have, short term or longstay????? I think this  is just "talk" and not true at all... 

 

I think personally that; O-A that you buy in your home-country only!! And extension longstay you buy locally only inside Thailand... And by that Thailand thinking was, that they had more control economicly over the guys that have bought their extensions inside Thailand, where they have been checked for having decent economy, than the ones where they have bought an O-A in a foreign country....

 

So no discrimination at all here, not more than it usually is here in Thiland.

 

glegolo 

In applying for my O-A visa in 2010 I had to prove I had sufficient finances before entry to Thailand by not only providing bank records of funds held, but by getting them officially certified at considerable expense. Also required was a costly Federal Police Clearance certificate to prove no criminal record anywhere in my home country, and a medical certificate from a real doctor. Compare this to an "O" who can just enter without any such checks. 

After entry when seeking extensions there is no difference in proving finances between the 2 categories. The only difference in conditions arose when the bogus insurance was instigated. (For the OP, this was not an Immigration policy, it was put to Cabinet by the Health Department.)

The pandemic has changed nearly everything on the planet to the detriment of many. Thailand has generally responded well, but wouldn't be Thailand if there weren't inconsistencies with some things. I don't understand why one category of long stay tourist is not treated the same as others when it comes to re-entry and insurance!

 

(Perhaps re-entry is allowed for one because O-As theoretically hold Thai insurance?)

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Old Croc

[colinneil]

33 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

How Do you about his service at the hospital? I seem to recall Mr Neil having his issues with Thai authorities.  We all have memories

Well your memory is wrong !!!

I have never had anything but praise for government hospitals here.

Please get your facts correct, before making false statements.

Why dont you check back through the threads, then post what i have said about government hospitals, you wont because it will prove you wrong.

Edited October 9, 2020 by colinneil

[userabcd]

55 minutes ago, newnative said:

    Makes absolutely no sense at all to require health insurance for THIS foreign retiree and not for THAT foreign retiree.  My Thai partner pointed out that O-A's are being punished for following the rules.  We knew we were going to be staying long-term in Thailand so we followed the Thai immigration rules and applied for our retirement visas in our home countries before we arrived in Thailand--which assigned us an O-A visa that now requires health insurance while not requiring it for other retirement visa types.

The govt should streamline retirement visas and its extensions and only issue non-oa visas and ext thereof for those based on retirement.

 

There are reasons, advantages and disadvantages between the OA and O visa, but it seems others are envious and have their beady eyes on having the benefits of both.

Edited October 9, 2020 by userabcd

[thonglorjimmy]

19 hours ago, mlkik said:

The discrimination works if favour of the O- A holder in that they are able to enter Thailand and Non O are not.

Swings and roundabouts !

Even if they have a Thai spouse?

[Solinvictus]

21 hours ago, finnsk said:

They can not take money out of all the poor migrant workers from the Asean countries.

 

So they try to take more milk/MONEY out of the milky/MONEY cows, as we are for them.

 

I do not believe the western retirement visa holders is any burden to the country, but I believe the migrant workers is running from the hospital bills, and that we had to pay for.

I agree with the the first two statements.

 

The ending smells of conservative, often republican 'logic.' Blame 'our' expenses on migrants. "Hey what is there over there?!"

 

A banker, a politician, an employer exploiting....

[WhatsNext]

35 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

(Perhaps re-entry is allowed for one because O-As theoretically hold Thai insurance?)

Time and time again we make the mistake of thinking that there is logic behind the government's policies here. There isn't

Just look at the total <deleted> that they made with the STV

 

Even in the US and the EU our governments are pretty good at making illogical decisions at great expenses, and this here is a 2nd world country with a bunch of corrupt army men at the top who select their government employee's based on nepotism and money, what do you expect ?

[SammyJ]

it's nonsense the idea of "discrimination"--non-O holders must have on deposit here 800,000 baht or prove 65,000 baht being transferred monthly--OA holders do NOT have this requirement--yes, they prove income in their home countries, but those funds may remain there and there is no check if the funds used, really do belong to the applicant.  So, if a non-O holder needs money for health care, he/she already has it in the bank or being transferred each and every month.

 

Yes, not perfect, but a key distinction between the two.

[Guderian]

22 hours ago, jingjo01 said:

So why is a select group of long stay expats being financially penalized by the Immigration Department?

Do you really need to ask that after living here for over 20 years?

Welcome to the Thai Immigration lottery.

[Henricus]

non-oa no money in the bank, non 0 800.000 in the bank

[Bangkok Barry]

22 hours ago, steven100 said:

wasn't someone else whining about this just yesterday on another topic.

It's what is required by immigration because it's the rules and the law.

You can moan about it till the cows come home Jingjo but that won't change a thing. It is what it is.  TIT

I love the way you bend over and support all things that the Thai government imposes upon foreigners. Doesn't matter what it is, the Thai way is the fair way and foreigners who don't like it, tough luck and suck it up. I can only assume that you've never lived in a country where foreigners are respected and have equal rights as those born there.

[ianezy0]

53 minutes ago, SammyJ said:

it's nonsense the idea of "discrimination"--non-O holders must have on deposit here 800,000 baht or prove 65,000 baht being transferred monthly--OA holders do NOT have this requirement--yes, they prove income in their home countries, but those funds may remain there and there is no check if the funds used, really do belong to the applicant.  So, if a non-O holder needs money for health care, he/she already has it in the bank or being transferred each and every month.

 

Yes, not perfect, but a key distinction between the two.

True Sammy, but when you extend your stay in Thailand based on your expiring  O-A. then the financial requirements are having the 800,000 in the bank (same as O visa holders plus HI.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by ianezy0

[dcms]

Thais visiting the EU must have Health Insurance. Its a no brainer that in the future farangs visiting or staying in Thailand must do likewise but expect some sort of scheme that allows older farangs to acquire Thai health cover (at a price) Maybe a refundable bond of some sort. It is not a big problem to solve if a group of powerful Thai's see a benefit for themselves.  That is how it works here. 

[Russell17au]

The big difference between the "O-A" visa and the Non "O" visa is that for the financials the "O-A" visa the money does not have to be in a Thai bank it is normally in the home countries bank whereas the Non "O" the financials MUST be in a Thai bank.

[pixelaoffy]

1 hour ago, colinneil said:

Well your memory is wrong !!!

I have never had anything but praise for government hospitals here.

Please get your facts correct, before making false statements.

Why dont you check back through the threads, then post what i have said about government hospitals, you wont because it will prove you wrong.

Never said hospitals. Other Thai " authorities" which you have criticised? Dont tell someone they are wrong when they have had bad service. because you have no 'facts' to say otherwise 

Edited October 9, 2020 by pixelaoffy

[Mansell]

If you are an O-A and married you don’t need the insurance. Just renewed and it was never mentioned.

[SammyJ]

3 minutes ago, ianezy0 said:

True Sammy, but when you extend your stay in Thailand based on your expiring  O-A. then the financial requirements are having the 800,000 in the bank (same as O visa holders plus HI.

 

if that's the path one chooses, then having the O, you would no longer be required to have the insurance,

 

However, some do not choose that path to convert the OA to an O in country.  I knew a few expats that got the multi year OA, went out of the country near end of year 1, came back and renewed it for one 

more year--then, near the end of year 2, they used time to take a trip back to their home country and 

obtain another 2 year OA--of course, that option now is off the table.

[TPI]

21 hours ago, sanuk711 said:

Unless you are Thai, your not paying for them finnsk. There has been plenty of news reports of Farangs who had accidents etc that did not pay.

Just the same in the UK where the Brit taxpayer has to pay for the NHS that provides help to anyone in an emergency.

Maybe it would be better to have any Thai traveller be required to have insurance of USD$100,000, THB500,000 in their bank account for 6 months and be accompanied by a health professional throughout their journey along with an ankle tag and only allowed to stay in a government mandated hotel!

 

That would solve the problem quick smart!

[SammyJ]

8 minutes ago, ianezy0 said:

True Sammy, but when you extend your stay in Thailand based on your expiring  O-A. then the financial requirements are having the 800,000 in the bank (same as O visa holders plus HI.

 

its my understanding that once you convert to the O, you no longer have to have the insurance--if you still did, then why convert?

[wwest5829]

22 hours ago, glegolo said:

The results showed that the majority of offenders were immigrants from neighboring Countries and short stay tourists. I don’t recall reading that long stay expats were even mentioned.

 

So why is a select group of long stay expats being financially penalized by the Immigration Department?

-----------------------------------------------------

What result??? I dont know where you get this "stuff" from?? So you seriously try to convience readers here that the thai gouverment has gone in, on each and every offender, and checked their passport (mind you that they are already gone from Thailand), to see what kind of VISA they have, short term or longstay????? I think this  is just "talk" and not true at all... 

 

I think personally that; O-A that you buy in your home-country only!! And extension longstay you buy locally only inside Thailand... And by that Thailand thinking was, that they had more control economicly over the guys that have bought their extensions inside Thailand, where they have been checked for having decent economy, than the ones where they have bought an O-A in a foreign country....

 

So no discrimination at all here, not more than it usually is here in Thiland.

 

glegolo 

I am only addressing one point here. I entered Thailand upon on an O-A Visa for retirement in 2011. That Visa was issued through the Royal Thai Consulate in Chicago, USA. In applying I had to submit the required health form from my Doctor, a police clearance showing I had no criminal record and my financial documentation confirming I had sufficient funds to support myself in Thailand. My point being, that I had to submit the same financials as an O Visa holder would need to demonstrate.

[ianezy0]

Just now, SammyJ said:

its my understanding that once you convert to the O, you no longer have to have the insurance--if you still did, then why convert?

I tried to convert my O-A to an O 2 weeks ago but was told by immigration and 4 agents that it was not possible unless I left the country and re-entered. So, not being able to leave and re-enter, I extended my expired O-A for 12 months (extension of stay). This was along with the 800k plus HI.

[wwest5829]

21 hours ago, jacko45k said:

The requirement came into force in October 2019, so you actually has some time prior to Covid  to go get the Exempt, TV or Non-Imm-O Entry and to take it from there. I am sure others who renewed just prior to the requirement coming into force have also been trapped by the situation...

Maybe an agent......

I just rationalized the 11,400 baht useless insurance for my O-A. Seemed to me I would have paid that much on my trip leaving the country, spending a few days on a beach and then returning to Thailand to go through the steps to get a new O Visa. Ha! Yes, the fact that I would not be allowed to re-enter Thailand did come into play.

[thasoss]

3 hours ago, DPKANKAN said:

Yes there is discrimination here. Rampant! But in a normal country you do not change laws retrospectively. Purely new laws should be implemented against new retirees who are aware of the requirements before they choose their final life style

exactly how it should have been dealt with.

[Dumbastheycome]

1 hour ago, colinneil said:

Well your memory is wrong !!!

I have never had anything but praise for government hospitals here.

Please get your facts correct, before making false statements.

Why dont you check back through the threads, then post what i have said about government hospitals, you wont because it will prove you wrong.

While certainly not on the same level as your own experience I have had one accident occasion which required hospitalization and then transfer from one public hospital to another for emergency surgery the first one had no capacity for ( at that time).

In both hospitals the level of care and intervention was excellent. (The food  was  bloody awful but legend is that is standard  for hospital food  anywhere ! )

Post hospital outpatient follow ups were tedious but ongoing consults with same Surgeon were thorough.

I have  visited others in Private Hospitals and apart from glossy  surroundings and food that looked more appealing could see no advantage for the cost. In fact in one  case of orthopedic surgery the following physiotherapy was inappropriate  and the victim had to have further major remedial surgery on return  to his home country.

 

[SammyJ]

1 hour ago, ianezy0 said:

I tried to convert my O-A to an O 2 weeks ago but was told by immigration and 4 agents that it was not possible unless I left the country and re-entered. So, not being able to leave and re-enter, I extended my expired O-A for 12 months (extension of stay). This was along with the 800k plus HI.

that's news to me--maybe it has always been this way, but most friends i know who kept the OA did not have to deposit funds--had you already used two years or one on the OA?

[The Theory]

On 10/8/2020 at 10:46 AM, jingjo01 said:

I retired to Thailand from Australia on a non immigrant O-A visa. Many of my retired long stay friends from Australia, New Zealand and America are here on non immigrant O visas. For some reason, these lucky individuals have not been targeted with the new health insurance requirement by the Immigration Department when they attend to extend their one year visa.

It s not only different type of visa. Americans with non-o are required to keep 800,000 in bank. You can change your visa type as you mentioned, but do you have 800,000 in bank ? You either buy an insurance or keep 800,000 as a self insured. Immigration did not do any favor to non-o extension holders. They were self insured, but O-A type ? Nothing, no money in bank. I hope you understand the difference. Many expats who live on monthly transfer claim that they transfer even more than monthly required by type of their visa, but unfortunately they have no 800,000 savings in their bank after years of living in Thailand. 

[Neeranam]

Why would a 70 year old man not want health insurance?

 

This is not discrimination, by the way. Speak to some workers from neighbouring countries if you want to hear what discrimination is. 

 

[Neeranam]

On 10/8/2020 at 10:46 AM, jingjo01 said:

I retired to Thailand from Australia on a non immigrant O-A visa. Many of my retired long stay friends from Australia, New Zealand and America are here on non immigrant O visas.

How many Thais do you know that can meet the requirements to retire in Australia, NZ, or USA? Perhaps you should direct your resentment towards your own government. 

[TSF]

2 hours ago, Henricus said:

non-oa no money in the bank, non 0 800.000 in the bank

That's my understanding of it too. Why the "O" don't need insurance because they have 800K thb in a Thai bank that will be sufficient to cover most hospital/medical costs.