Re-Entry to Thailand - A beaurocratic nightmare

[Jen65]

I had thought that holders of Non Immigrant "O" visas and retirees on extension of stay were not yet permitted to return to Thailand ???

 

I am flying out on 17th October (by necessity ) to Europe and need to be back about 10th November .   I contacted the Thai Embassy/Consul in Lisbon (from where I will return ) and they gave me the requirements for applicationof CofE etc .  I am aware of all the additional requirements ( medical / fit to fly/Covid Test/flight booking/ASQ booking  etc etc ) which is not a problem - only the VISA Re-Entry Issue.

 

Thai Consul in Lisbon sent me the attached email which basically says I need to apply for new visa O-A with all the attached additional requirements .  I did the medical and after asking Chonburi Immigration where I get a Police criminal record clearance ,I was told to go to Police HQ Bangkok , Criminal Investigations dept !  I was there at 9am this morning and they told me I would need a letter from Immigration requesting this Police check !!!  Chonburi Immigration knew I would need a letter of request to provide to Police department but they did not mention this or issue one even though they instructed me to go to Bangkok .

So back to Chonburi Immigration where I produced the sample form from Police HQ and was directed to Senior Immigration Officer .   The Officer asked why I needed this and wanted to see my Passport .  I explained my situation in that I was going out of Thailand and needed to be sure I could return and showed the email from the Thai Consul. 

The Officer explained that was all unnecessary since I already had a retirement extension and valid re-entry .  I would not need another visa and definitely not an O-A .  All that was required was for the Thai Embassy to provide a letter of guarantee for my status .

 

So now, with 2 days to go and today seemingly totally a waste of my time and money ,  I am still not sure WHO is correct !!!!  Absolute shambles !!!     

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by blackcab
Image redacted

[Eff1n2ret]

4 minutes ago, Jen65 said:

The Officer explained that was all unnecessary since I already had a retirement extension and valid re-entry .  I would not need another visa and definitely not an O-A .  All that was required was for the Thai Embassy to provide a letter of guarantee for my status .

If only that commonsense attitude reflected the truth.

[Sheryl]

Ignore what Immigration told you, they are not aware of the COE requirements (COE is issued by embassies not Immigration).

 

Unless you are married to a Thai, you will not be able to get a COE with a non-O.

[stubuzz]

I am amazed that you got a reply from the consul!

[Starmocihc]

If you exit, most likely you're not getting back in without proof of marriage and the ensuing process. 

[baansgr]

18 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Ignore what Immigration told you, they are not aware of the COE requirements (COE is issued by embassies not Immigration).

 

Unless you are married to a Thai, you will not be able to get a COE with a non-O.

Are they not allowing property owners or those with long term rental contracts entry? Sure I read that a few days ago.

[DrTuner]

The only way to deal with Thai bureaucracy is not to, or if you have to, get every single paper ever made about you, in duplicates. Meaning better get that criminal check. Police HQ is opposite Central, about 1-1 1/2 weeks to get it. I did one a few months ago. You need to tell the cause for it, as it'll be printed on the certificate, that's why they asked for immigration paper requesting it.

 

Thai bureaucracy is world class, hubba hubba.

[from the home of CC]

rather there be bureaucratic nightmares than the out of control disease rates that are prevalent in most of the west..   

[alianware]

21 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

The only way to deal with Thai bureaucracy is not to, or if you have to, get every single paper ever made about you, in duplicates. Meaning better get that criminal check. Police HQ is opposite Central, about 1-1 1/2 weeks to get it. I did one a few months ago. You need to tell the cause for it, as it'll be printed on the certificate, that's why they asked for immigration paper requesting it.

 

Thai bureaucracy is world class, hubba hubba.

Why does police need paper from immigration for just criminal check ?? Why the police won't just ask direct to the person who require it  ?? That is so stupid.

People just need criminal check for many reasons ex. for job application . So, do people also need letter from the boss to get check criminal ???? 

Damm stupid.

Edited October 14, 2020 by alianware

[DrTuner]

13 minutes ago, alianware said:

Why does police need paper from immigration for just criminal check ?? Why the police won't just ask direct to the person who require it  ?? That is so stupid.

People just need criminal check for many reasons ex. for job application . So, do people also need letter from the boss to get check criminal ???? 

Damm stupid.

Why? TiT, that's why. Ain't a damn thing you can do about it, except comply or forget about it. Yes, it sucks.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Jen65 said:

I did the medical and after asking Chonburi Immigration where I get a Police criminal record clearance ,I was told to go to Police HQ Bangkok , Criminal Investigations dept ! 

The police clearance has to be done in your home country to apply for a OA visa. You are not a legal resident of Thailand.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Jen65 said:

 

I am flying out on 17th October (by necessity ) to Europe and need to be back about 10th November . 

There is a virtual certainty that if you fly out you will not be retuning 3 weeks later, possibly up to 3 months. 

 

The CoE alone takes a couple of weeks, that is if the embassy will accept your application, getting on a repatriation flight is also difficult, that is all subject to your getting an ASQ booking that will probably require a non refundable payment, probably of the full cost. All of that is dependant on not getting infected on your trip.
 

So unless you are significantly wealthy, are backed by a very large multi national or have high political connections you plan is unlikely to be successful.
 

You should do everything in your power to avoid the trip.

Edited October 14, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[Max69xl]

47 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There is a virtual certainty that if you fly out you will not be retuning 3 weeks later, possibly up to 3 months. 

 

The CoE alone takes a couple of weeks, that is if the embassy will accept your application, getting on a repatriation flight is also difficult, that is all subject to your getting an ASQ booking that will probably require a non refundable payment, probably of the full cost. All of that is dependant on not getting infected on your trip.
 

So unless you are significantly wealthy, are backed by a very large multi national or have high political connections you plan is unlikely to be successful.
 

You should do everything in your power to avoid the trip.

There are several airlines flying from Europe to BKK at the moment,and she is not actually a repat. Several ASQ-hotels are ok with changing the check-in date free of charge. I don't know how you define "significantly wealthy", but you don't have to pick the most expensive hotel and airline. 

[carlyai]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

The only way to deal with Thai bureaucracy is not to, or if you have to, get every single paper ever made about you, in duplicates. Meaning better get that criminal check. Police HQ is opposite Central, about 1-1 1/2 weeks to get it. I did one a few months ago. You need to tell the cause for it, as it'll be printed on the certificate, that's why they asked for immigration paper requesting it.

 

Thai bureaucracy is world class, hubba hubba.

Unless things have changed, I have heard from a friend's friend that you can get the report on the same day, just requires a bit of waiting and ...ingenuity. 

[hereforgood]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Ain't a damn thing you can do about it, except comply or forget about it.

yup 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, Jen65 said:

The Officer explained that was all unnecessary since I already had a retirement extension and valid re-entry .  I would not need another visa and definitely not an O-A .  All that was required was for the Thai Embassy to provide a letter of guarantee for my status .

The officer is giving you the correct answer in normal travel times. He is ignorant to the additional restrictions on obtaining a COE. 

A retirement non imm O generated permission of stay and its extensions are not eligible for a COE currently. If you can comply with obtaining a new OA visa (usually only possible in your home country and with the restrictions mentioned) you may be eligible for a COE. However simply being eligible for a COE does not mean you can always get one. Be aware that many places will not issue an OA while a current valid O or its extensions of stay sits in your passport and COEs can be hard to obtain in many locations simply due to poor responses from the embassy in that region, or poor travel connections. Being eligible for one and getting one are not guaranteed outcomes. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The CoE alone takes a couple of weeks, that is if the embassy will accept your application, getting on a repatriation flight is also difficult, that is all subject to your getting an ASQ booking that will probably require a non refundable payment, probably of the full cost. All of that is dependant on not getting infected on your trip.

 

Its become a lot quicker in some places.. The UK for example gave me a COE in under 2 days and only was not in one day as the ASQ hotel was slow to respond with bank info for the booking. If you have all your ducks in a row its fairly swift from the uk now and could easily be done in a week from start to flight. 

That is of course for someone eligible for a COE which the OP currently isnt. I have no idea on the UK embassy's policy on issuing a new non imm OA to someone already holding an O extension of stay and re-entry permit. 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, baansgr said:

Are they not allowing property owners or those with long term rental contracts entry? Sure I read that a few days ago.

Long term rental contracts no. You may be thinking of the clause that allows in people with permanent residency, a separate legal status altogether.

 

Property owners if they meet a daunting list of requirements including 3 million baht on deposit in a Thai bank plus the equivalent of 500,000 baht in a bank account in your home country for at least the past 6 months

[ChouDoufu]

2 hours ago, Jen65 said:

So back to Chonburi Immigration where I produced the sample form from Police HQ and was directed to Senior Immigration Officer .   The Officer asked why I needed this and wanted to see my Passport .  I explained my situation in that I was going out of Thailand and needed to be sure I could return and showed the email from the Thai Consul. 

The Officer explained that was all unnecessary

 

all that fuss and bother to avoid the supreme drudgery of having a staffer write a simple two sentence memorandum requesting a police report!!!

 

jeesus!  instead of wasting a half an hour "explaining" why something needed isn't needed, just write the damn memo!

 

amazing.

 

 

[Jen65]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The police clearance has to be done in your home country to apply for a OA visa. You are not a legal resident of Thailand.

my HOME country is Thailand and has been for 10years !!!   There would not be any record of me living there now !!!  That would be pointless and impossible .

Yes, The O-A visa applied for in ones home country BEFORE coming to live in Thailand is quite appropriate such that the Thai authorities then know if anyone wanting to enter the country has a criminal record .    I don't see how the logic of applying for that now in the country one lived in before residing in Thailand , especially after 10 years living here !!! 

 

Anyway , if you read the requirement , it says it can be from your country of "residence"  ie here !!! 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Jen65
additional important information

[DrTuner]

1 minute ago, Jen65 said:

I don't see how the logic of applying for that now in the country one lived in before residing in Thailand , especially after 10 years living here !!! 

Don't confuse logic with Thai bureaucracy, it'll only cause headache. The two have nothing to do with each other.

[Jen65]

Here is the latest on the saga of trying to get a Re-Entry to Thailand !!!   This should be quite informative to those in a similar position to myself .

 

Dear <redacted> ,

 

Please note that there are a number of holders of re-entry permit of Non-Immigrant O Retirement who were denied entry to

the Kingdom upon their arrival at Suvarnabhumi Airport.

 

We have been informed of the clear instruction from Bangkok that we can only issue the certificate of entry to the holders of Non-Immigrant O-A 

and O-X Long Stay Visa  or the holders of re-entry permit of these types of Visa.  

 

Non-Immigrant O-A and O-X Long Stay Visa can only issued by the Thai Embassies and Consulates worldwide.

 

The Royal Embassy in Lisbon needs to clarify with the  Immigration Office in Chonburi in this regard.

 

Kind regards,

 

<redacted>

Consular Section

Royal Thai Embassy 

Rua de Alcolena 12, Restelo 

1400-005 

Lisboa, Portugal 

Tel: (351) 21301 4848

 

 

Hide original message

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 12:03 PM <redacted> wrote:

Hello  <redacted>,

Chonburi Immigration now closed. I will go tomorrow morning and request the contact number and name as you have requested, 

Kind Regards 

<redacted>

 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 at 16:57, Thai Consul Lisbon

<[email protected]> wrote:

Dear <redacted>,

 

Can I have the contact number and name of the immigration officer at Chonburi Immigration?

 

Kind regards,

 

<redacted>
Consular Section

Royal Thai Embassy 

Rua de Alcolena 12, Restelo 

1400-005 

Lisboa, Portugal 

Tel: (351) 21301 4848

 

 

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:06 AM <redacted> wrote:

TOP URGENT

 

Bom dia / Good day

 

Since receiving your email advising that I am not able to return to Thailand on my present visa and need to obtain a new O-A visa ,  I have been arranging the documents you requested and today at 5.30 am travelled to Bangkok Police HW Criminal section for "criminal record clearance ".

I was told that I would need a letter from Immigration requesting this ,so I return to Pattaya and to Chonburi Immigration where I met with the Senior Immigration Officer .

After checking my Passport I was told that I did NOT need another visa ( and definitely not an O-A visa )   and that my present "retirement visa which is current and valid with valid re-entry permit was all that was need to come back into Thailand but also with a letter / guarantee from the Thai Embassy .

 

Therefore , somewhere there appears to be a misunderstanding between Immigration and yourselves .   As I am flying out on the Saturday 17th October I do not want to find myself stranded outside Thailand (my home ) unable to get back .   I have nowhere to stay outside of Thailand and I need to be back to receive my personal effects / furniture at the Customs when it arrives in Thailand .

 

I have only 2 days to rectify things if there is going to be any problems with my application to return and today was , according to Chonburi Immigration not necessary and so a waste of my time and money travelling to Bangkok and back ,

 

Best Regards

<redacted>

 

 

 

 

Tuesday, 13 October 2020, 04:17:58 GMT+7, Thai Consul Lisbon <[email protected]> wrote:

 

 

Dear <redacted>,    

 

Thank your for your kind understanding. As of now, only those who hold Non Immigrant OA visa or re-entry permit of Non OA are allowed to enter Thailand.   

 

The medical examination for showing no prohibitive diseases can be done upon physical examination.  Please find the attached completed medical certificate for your reference.

 

Please kindly note that to issue you the certificate of entry, we also need from you the following documents in due course: 

1. Declaration Form 

2. Confirmation for Alternative State Quarantine (ASQ) Reservation 
 

3. Health insurance policy which covers treatment and medical expenses in relation to COVID-19, with a minimum coverage of 100,000 USD or 92,000 Euros 

4. Flight Reservation
 
5.  Fit to Fly Medical Certificate in English issued by Portuguese doctor within 72 hours before flying

6. COVID-19 Free Medical Certificate in English with laboratory result indicating that COVID-19 is not detected through RT-PCR Test issued by Portuguese doctor within 72 hours before flying 

 

Kind regards,

 

<redacted>
Consular Section

Royal Thai Embassy 

Rua de Alcolena 12, Restelo 

1400-005 

Lisboa, Portugal 

Tel: (351) 21301 4848

 

Dear <redacted>,  

I am so sorry to inform you that the Royal Thai Embassy needs to verify your re-entry permit again. If it is not a re-entry permit for Non Immigrant visa code OA it is not valid to enter Thailand.

What we can do is to re-issue you a Non  Non Immigrant visa OA with validity of 1 year, but we need to require from you the following documents:

 

1. Visa application form  (attachment 1)

2. Passport or travel document with validity of not less than 6 months

3. 2 x recent passport-sized photograph (4 x 6 cm)

4. A medical certificate in English showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) which include Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Elephantiasis, drug addiction, third stage of Syphilis, and the certificate shall be valid for not more than three months. (please refer to  the attached form)

5. Certificate of criminal record clearance stating that the applicant has no criminal record issued from the country of his/her nationality or residence (the verification shall be valid for no more than 3 months).

6. Financial evidence showing monthly income of not less than 65,000 THB or having the current balance of 800,000 THB, e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, for at least 1 month

7. Visa Fee 170 Euros

 

The Royal Thai Embassy apologise for any inconvenience this may cause but we hope you understand that it is our intention to assist you to travel to Thailand.    

Kind regards,

 

<redacted>
Minister Counsellor

Consular Section

Royal Thai Embassy 

Rua de Alcolena 12, Restelo 

1400-005 

Lisboa, Portugal 

Tel: (351) 21301 4848

Edited October 15, 2020 by blackcab
Personal info redacted

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

There are several airlines flying from Europe to BKK at the moment,and she is not actually a repat. Several ASQ-hotels are ok with changing the check-in date free of charge. I don't know how you define "significantly wealthy", but you don't have to pick the most expensive hotel and airline. 

The significant wealth is to enable the OP to short circuit the delays, it is little to do with the costs involved. Many people could afford the 100,000 and up of a return but are unable to get clearance. Wealth or power can assist with a jump of the queues.

 

As the CAAT has not lifted the ban on regular passenger flights to Thailand the need for a designated “repatriation” flight is there. 

[Mike Teavee]

As things stand, the Embassy is correct & you will not be able to get a COE with a Non-O/Re-entry permit & as they are the ones that need to issue it to you I would put more faith in what they were telling me than Immigration within Thailand. 

 

Did the Thai Embassy confirm that they would issue you with a new Non-OA when you already have a valid Non-O Extension/Re-Entry Permit? - I've always understood that existing Visas/Permissions to stay can only be cancelled by Immigration which means in-country. (It's because of this that did not got a re-entry permit with my extension in August this year as if I need to visit the UK, my plan is to come back using a Thai Elite Visa which is another option to you, though you'll struggle to do it within your timelines). 

 

Good luck, hope you manage to get back sooner rather than later 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

40 minutes ago, Jen65 said:

my HOME country is Thailand and has been for 10years !!!   There would not be any record of me living there now !!!  That would be pointless and impossible .

Yes, The O-A visa applied for in ones home country BEFORE coming to live in Thailand is quite appropriate such that the Thai authorities then know if anyone wanting to enter the country has a criminal record .    I don't see how the logic of applying for that now in the country one lived in before residing in Thailand , especially after 10 years living here !!! 

 

Anyway , if you read the requirement , it says it can be from your country of "residence"  ie here !!! 

Unless you have permanent residence, you don’t, or have become a Thai citizen, you haven’t, you are not resident in Thailand according to the Thai government.
 

Just because you consider Thailand to be your country of residence doesn’t matter.

 

You can not apply while in Thailand as there is no Thai embassy in Thailand. Thailand is the exception to the ability to apply in your country of residence.
 

The ability to apply in your country of residence only applies to submitting the application in the Thai embassy that is in that country (or has responsibility for that country), no Thai embassy has responsibility for Thailand. You may still be able to apply in you country of nationality, but you may not qualify.

Edited October 14, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[Andrew Dwyer]

38 minutes ago, Jen65 said:

my HOME country is Thailand and has been for 10years !!!   There would not be any record of me living there now !!!  

I left the U.K. in 1995 and became non resident, in 2015 I moved to Thailand, in 2016 I visited the U.K. to get a police certificate ( ACRO ) and obtained an OA visa .

There was no problem in the fact I hadn’t lived there for 21 years.

The police clearance document is relevant to your home/passport country.

 

So, unless you have PR or are a Thai citizen it makes no difference that you have lived here for 10 years .

[Jen65]

34 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

As things stand, the Embassy is correct & you will not be able to get a COE with a Non-O/Re-entry permit & as they are the ones that need to issue it to you I would put more faith in what they were telling me than Immigration within Thailand. 

 

Did the Thai Embassy confirm that they would issue you with a new Non-OA when you already have a valid Non-O Extension/Re-Entry Permit? - I've always understood that existing Visas/Permissions to stay can only be cancelled by Immigration which means in-country. (It's because of this that did not got a re-entry permit with my extension in August this year as if I need to visit the UK, my plan is to come back using a Thai Elite Visa which is another option to you, though you'll struggle to do it within your timelines). 

 

Good luck, hope you manage to get back sooner rather than later 

 

Thai Consul in Lisbon has offered to give me new O-A visa ( I have posted copy of their email on here) but the business of having to have my existing visa / extension cancelled is another matter !!!  No mention of that by anybody !  I just paid 1000 baht for a re-entry stamp and looks like that was for nothing !

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, Jen65 said:

No mention of that by anybody !  I just paid 1000 baht for a re-entry stamp and looks like that was for nothing !

A reentry permit cannot be cancelled. You cannot apply for an non 0-A anywhere but your own country. 

Some researched would have been of great assistance. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by DrJack54

[Jen65]

36 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I left the U.K. in 1995 and became non resident, in 2015 I moved to Thailand, in 2016 I visited the U.K. to get a police certificate ( ACRO ) and obtained an OA visa .

There was no problem in the fact I hadn’t lived there for 21 years.

The police clearance document is relevant to your home/passport country.

 

So, unless you have PR or are a Thai citizen it makes no difference that you have lived here for 10 years .

That's really useful info - just googled ACRO and found the UK Police Criminal Records Office - it seems all can be done by email and even within 4 days at a cost of 95pds . Just need all the residence info for the last 10years and last UK residence info .  Now, where do we start - phew !!! 

[Jen65]

10 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

A reentry permit cannot be cancelled. You cannot apply for an non 0-A anywhere but your own country. 

Some researched would have been of great assistance. 

Well, the Thai Embassy / Consul in Lisbon have said they can issue me a new O-A visa and have already sent them copy of my Passport and current visa / re-entry permit !!!   Check the email from them which I posted here