New Zealand's Ardern storms to re-election with 'be strong, be kind' mantra

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Quite so.

 

But no government has shown willingness to accept merely "a high degree of control" or that this is just another "normal" threat to public health. NZ is a prime example of a government which believes it can "eliminate" this virus, which is absurd.

 

Governments worldwide have terrified their citizens over this virus as though it were a new plague, and have painted themselves into a corner as a result. Turning that round, and asking citizens to regard this as just another "normal" threat is going to take a lot of doing, and a lot of time.

I completely disagree with you! It's the countries such as New Zealand, Thailand, and perhaps Vietnam that are rare exceptions to the general situation globally where countries are largely opening up. trying to encourage or enforce mitigation measures such as masks, but accepting that getting the infection rate down to zero is not in any way realistic now. I would agree that governments are not really addressing the future yet when presumably there will be a somewhat effective vaccine, but I'm confident if great control is the best that can be realistically achieved, then that will be accepted by almost all countries globally. 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

"I agree. She's just another wishy washy, everything's awesome leftie. Easy to claim success when you're in the middle of the Pacific. Only a monkey could screw things up there on covid. They have not had any exposure and will have to remain closed for the duration or hope someone develops a vaccine before they can rejoin the human race."

 

It doesn't require any great level of optimism to expect that a vaccine will be available before long. Pfizer are due to file for approval of their vaccine by late November. Moderna and Astra Zeneca are probably not far behind.

 

Pfizer to file for vaccine approval late November at earliest

 

Then there are the other 200 or so candidate vaccines already in various stages of development, including 8 in phase 3 trials already (last time I checked). I'd be surprised if there isn't at least one vaccine approved and licensed by the middle of 2021.

You didn't credit the poster for that quote.

 

Go right ahead and take a rushed vaccine, but may of us will not. Luckily in NZ they can't force us to be injected.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I completely disagree with you! It's the countries such as New Zealand, Thailand, and perhaps Vietnam that are rare exceptions to the general situation globally where countries are largely opening up. trying to encourage or enforce mitigation measures such as masks, but accepting that getting the infection rate down to zero is not in any way realistic now. I would agree that governments are not really addressing the future yet when presumably there will be a somewhat effective vaccine, but I'm confident if great control is the best that can be realistically achieved, then that will be accepted by almost all countries globally. 

The NZ government is not mandating mask wearing- probably because they know it'll be "resisted". Even during level 4 lockdown it was not mandatory and where I live hardly anyone wore one in public.

Nowadays they don't even "encourage" it that I've seen/ heard.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Deerculler said:

Simon always came across as wimp. 

The only wimp, IMO, was Muller that gave up after 3 weeks in the job. I'm shocked that he was re elected.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, RickBradford said:

That's a fair assumption, even though there has never previously been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus.

 

By that time, the airline, tourist and hospitality industries will be dead and buried worldwide.

 

Also, previous vaccines for other respiratory viruses have proved to be only about 50% effective and fairly short-lived. Which still poses a problem for Covid-purity governments, since outbreaks will continue indefinitely, just as the common cold (another coronavirus illness) does.

 

So a vaccine essentially solves nothing; governments still have to admit that this virus is never going away.

 

 

The Greens should be celebrating the demise of airlines. Planes are polluting and don't fit on bicycle paths.

 

If Ardern brings the Greens into government, without Winston to say no, we are in even bigger doodooo than at present IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, RickBradford said:

It means exactly that; until there is a proven, tested, safe, 100% effective, long-lasting vaccine - something that has never been achieved before with a coronavirus - then governments are going to have to come to terms, sooner or later, with the fact that this virus cannot be eliminated and that we have to learn to live with it. 

 

The sooner they can bring themselves to admit that, the better.

How many politicians do you know of that admit they got it wrong on anything? Especially when it destroyed the economy and put the country into debt for possibly generations.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How many politicians do you know of that admit they got it wrong on anything? Especially when it destroyed the economy and put the country into debt for possibly generations.

If it was just about politicians you might have a point. But there is a thing called science. And unfortunately, there is also a thing called denialism of science. Which lots of politicians subscribe to.

[Bluetongue]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

If it was just about politicians you might have a point. But there is a thing called science. And unfortunately, there is also a thing called denialism of science. Which lots of politicians subscribe to.

I dont think he's denying science, just being realistic. Even if the various predictions on here from non scientists are correct, any control of the virus to satisfy Governments, let alone allay the fears of terrified people (the number one problem), cant occur until at least the second half of next year. That's assuming all goes pretty well with the end of the trials, the analysis of the success or otherwise, the approvals, the production, distribution and administering of the vaccine. So another year goes by, by that time the collateral damage will have really taken hold and the prediction about airlines, hospitality, tourism will have essentially come true. That is why I'm going back to Australia shortly to reorganise my life so that I may not go there again for a very long time, then get back here to my quiet and hopefully cheaper life. All the while recognising that my humble non scientific opinion is nothing compared to the power of the virus and whatever has been set up in response. I hope I'm wrong but as the good news doesn't get out I dont think the fear is going anywhere. 

[ncc1701d]

"So... apart from expertly dealing with volcanoes and an International pandemic virtually locking down the planet and an ongoing earthquake threat - she's just rubbish" [sic]

 

you guys are off your meds.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, ncc1701d said:

"So... apart from expertly dealing with volcanoes and an International pandemic virtually locking down the planet and an ongoing earthquake threat - she's just rubbish" [sic]

 

you guys are off your meds.

an ongoing earthquake threat

Do tell. Zero about it on the news/ google etc.

[Rimmer]

An off topic post attempting to hijack the topic has been removed

[ncc1701d]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

an ongoing earthquake threat

Do tell. Zero about it on the news/ google etc.

Right. So when you type in "New Zealand earthquakes" in google - literally nothing comes up. ????

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, ncc1701d said:

Right. So when you type in "New Zealand earthquakes" in google - literally nothing comes up. ????

The quote made it out to be something unusual going on re earthquakes, and there isn't, so what was the point of saying it?

NZ has earthquakes often, most of which cause no damage and are not even news.

Ardern hasn't made them an issue to my knowledge, so why post as though she has?

Edited October 22, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[ncc1701d]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The quote made it out to be something unusual going on re earthquakes, and there isn't, so what was the point of saying it?

NZ has earthquakes often, most of which cause no damage and are not even news.

Ardern hasn't made them an issue to my knowledge, so why post as though she has?

The point is she is rising to the challenges that have presented and done so incredibly well and the vast majority of New Zealanders obviously agree. I didn't say they were unusual or that she had made them issue. Whilst you lot are arguing "whataboutism" and what could have happened. "Well if things were all normal she would have done a terrible job" [sic] is the implication. Well they aren't and she didn't and you're still bad southing her. For what? Oh - and let's not forget a terrorist attack to add to the mix.

 

ongoing earthquake threat: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ourchangingworld/audio/2018762088/a-decade-of-earthquakes

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, ncc1701d said:

The point is she is rising to the challenges that have presented and done so incredibly well and the vast majority of New Zealanders obviously agree. I didn't say they were unusual or that she had made them issue. Whilst you lot are arguing "whataboutism" and what could have happened. "Well if things were all normal she would have done a terrible job" [sic] is the implication. Well they aren't and she didn't and you're still bad southing her. For what? Oh - and let's not forget a terrorist attack to add to the mix.

 

ongoing earthquake threat: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ourchangingworld/audio/2018762088/a-decade-of-earthquakes

I guess we'll have to disagree then, but I'm not going to get into a bickerfest about her. I'm just hoping the next 3 years go really fast.

[Bluetongue]

Jacinda Ardern is cautious and a nice person, but an airbag. Those parts of the job that require niceness she does well, hugging Muslim women while wearing headscarf etc. The caution was good at the start of the epidemic, but it will cost them big time from now on. The airbag part refers to unfulfilled promises. And for the record I have heard her state that NZ will not allow any border opening without quarantine until they have a vaccine. There is no Plan B.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Bluetongue
Added a phrase

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Bluetongue said:

Jacinda Ardern is cautious and a nice person, but an airbag. Those parts of the job that require niceness she does well, hugging Muslim women while wearing headscarf etc. The caution was good at the start of the epidemic, but it will cost them big time from now on. The airbag part refers to unfulfilled promises. And for the record I have heard her state that NZ will not allow any border opening without quarantine until they have a vaccine. There is no Plan B.

Agree.

 

Once they can't print more money to support all the unemployed the .

 

One hopes she won't give the greens any influence though, or we are screwed, IMO.

They are allowing loads of people in ( with quarantine ), but not workers to pick fruit. That's going to cost their reputation, IMO.

 

One hopes she manages to have some state houses built this time.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Bluetongue said:

Jacinda Ardern is cautious and a nice person, but an airbag. Those parts of the job that require niceness she does well, hugging Muslim women while wearing headscarf etc. The caution was good at the start of the epidemic, but it will cost them big time from now on. The airbag part refers to unfulfilled promises. And for the record I have heard her state that NZ will not allow any border opening without quarantine until they have a vaccine. There is no Plan B.

You mean the election was timed so perfectly that it is only a week later and it's already costing her support? That was fast.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

You mean the election was timed so perfectly that it is only a week later and it's already costing her support? That was fast.

Unless she delivers something of substance real fast expect the gloss to come off quite quickly. Some of us hold the opinion that National didn't try very hard to win as the next three years are going to be, IMO, horrible as the income support ends , unemployment rises and standard of living falls. I hope I'm wrong, but IMO the next few years are going to be disastrous for many.

If her policies stop pickers from the Pacific islands coming and the fruit crop fails, that's going to cost NZ perhaps billions in overseas income. Seems movie makers are more important than fruit pickers. Perhaps because movie producers make better publicity than mere workers.

[Bluetongue]

20 hours ago, placeholder said:

You mean the election was timed so perfectly that it is only a week later and it's already costing her support? That was fast.

No, I mean the only grounds for attack pre-election were failed promises from her first election. But fortunately for her Covid saved the day. Now she has to deliver with no tourists and not enough farm workers.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Bluetongue said:

No, I mean the only grounds for attack pre-election were failed promises from her first election. But fortunately for her Covid saved the day. Now she has to deliver with no tourists and not enough farm workers.

Their "plan" if it can be called a plan as they haven't told us about it, appears to be to make unemployed NZ people do the jobs that the overseas workers used to do. That'd be a good plan, except for a few flaws eg NZ people don't like working for low wages in bad conditions, and I don't blame them.

 

Be interesting when travel between NZ and Australia opens up, as nurses are apparently hoping to go over there for better wages. Perhaps NZ will have to start paying nurses what they are worth.

Edited October 23, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[Kiwiken]

On 10/18/2020 at 6:58 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd say it was more that National had been a shambles since they back stabbed Simon, and has been pathetic at standing up for farmers etc. A party that abandons its base is in trouble at the polls.

Seems from the conversations on talkback, many were going to support labour to get a majority so they could govern without the greens. If labour invites the greens into a coalition without Winston to stop the OTT green agenda, NZ is in trouble IMO.

Yes We will have to wait and see

[thaibeachlovers]

38 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

Yes We will have to wait and see

Seems the greens and ardern are in talks to be the government even though labour does not need them. Worst of all worlds if they do combine without Winston to stop the excess IMO.

[Kiwiken]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems the greens and ardern are in talks to be the government even though labour does not need them. Worst of all worlds if they do combine without Winston to stop the excess IMO.

For what it's worth I voted for Winnie