'People must brace for new-normal lifestyle for at least two years before Covid-19 is contained'

[rabas]

9 minutes ago, Bluedan said:

 

yes exactly you beat me to it Peru is a classic example of this. Also consider the timing. Its not disputed that the virus is tramitted quickly and easily. So in the case of Thailand the lockdown occurred about 3 months after the virus first arrived here. So what happened during those 3 months? It waited in a corner for us to lockdown? And no one points this out when crediting the government policy for suppressing it. The imperial college model predicted 80,000 deaths for Sweden if they didn't lockdown. Why can't they admit they got it wrong.

Thailand did not wait 3 months. I bought the last masks available at Chaengwattana Complex B on Jan 16 the day I renewed my visa. People were already concerned and the govt and hospitals quickly responded.

 

More importantly, a point everyone skips over, Thailand and most of Asia was hit with a much less infective version of the virus compared to the fast moving 614G mutation that hit Europe and then the US. This is now well established.

[Jack Cook]

Just more nonsense from idiots pushing vaccines. They don't work for normal flue. What idiot would put a rushed shonky vaccine in their system. Ummmm no thanks

[Bluedan]

1 minute ago, rabas said:

Thailand did not wait 3 months. I bought the last masks available at Chaengwattana Complex B on Jan 16 the day I renewed my visa. People were already concerned and the govt and hospitals quickly responded.

 

More importantly, a point everyone skips over, Thailand and most of Asia was hit with a much less infective version of the virus compared to the fast moving 614G mutation that hit Europe and then the US. This is now well established.

there is debate as to how effective if at all face masks are. Lockdown is the main measure we are debating anyway. I consider masks an inconvenience not a an economic killer. Lockdown was at the end of march, 3 months after the virus came here 

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

... New cases of covid in Sweden are increasing.

 

 

That's correct, but 'cases' are simply 'tested positive' with no indication of severity. 

A positive test with no symptoms and not resulting in hospitalization is interesting from a herd-immunity point of view, but no reason for panic or scare-mongering. 

Why not post the companion graph with deaths?  That gives at least an indication whether there is something to worry about.

A simple google on 'Sweden covid' will allow to toggle the cases and deaths.

 

[fondue zoo]

I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!

                                                                                                                                 - Grandpa Simpson

[Gandtee]

5 hours ago, gunderhill said:

 

I  don't think things are as black and white as he says.

[Bluedan]

Just now, Peter Denis said:

That's correct, but 'cases' are simply 'tested positive' with no indication of severity. 

A positive test with no symptoms and not resulting in hospitalization is interesting from a herd-immunity point of view, but no reason for panic or scare-mongering. 

Why not post the companion graph with deaths?  That gives at least an indication whether there is something to worry about.

A simple google on 'Sweden covid' will allow to toggle the cases and deaths.

 

Thanks Peter! Ever since deaths fell from the initial spike more testing and more cases. The PCR tests are so sensitive that they will pick up dead fragments of virus and as you point out they dont show illness or degree of illness. Surely deaths and ICU hospitalizations are what we should be looking at. 

[Shammy]

Bs new normal <deleted>.

Get on with it..

Oh what's that???

Oh what he mean't to say was like lambs to the new world order slaughter..no thanks.. cashless society no thanks.. curfews no thanks... overbearing government rule and gestapo-esq police running amok like Victoria Australia, Wa Australia, QLD ..no thanks...

[RayongBudgie]

There is no new normal. There is only normal. Anything different to the normal is abnormal. 

[rabas]

2 minutes ago, Bluedan said:

there is debate as to how effective if at all face masks are. Lockdown is the main measure we are debating anyway. I consider masks an inconvenience not a an economic killer. Lockdown was at the end of march, 3 months after the virus came here 

My point was the date Jan 16 and that Thailand took action early. Not about masks.

 

To split hairs. Physics tells us exactly how well any mask will work when worn properly. And they work well. Whether people wear them, also protect their eyes and clean their hands, or protest and expose themselves to risk is a behavioural and regulatory issue.

 

Clearly both are issues. But I often object to the poorly thought out comment that "masks don't work". Such comments can harm many who otherwise desire to take reasonable precaution when needed.

 

[brucec64]

5 hours ago, phukettrader said:

People need to do some of their own research instead of being sheep

Start with infowars.com. You can also find about aliens and dogmen. Dont believe that MSM....

[Virt]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The 'scientists' can't even agree on masks, Fauci and WHO can't even make a decision and stick to it.

What should we do? pick one particular scientist, and follow him and every change of mind he has?

Which scientist would you like us to follow?

 

Ain't that the truth.

They are like chefs with 10 different recipes for the same dish. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Stick with Fauci, or one from the NIH, etc.  Hard to go wrong with Fauci.  45 years in infectious diseases.  And not political at all.  If someone bashes Fauci, they're a covid denier.

But as you previously suggested, Fauci is vulnerable to misrepresentation by Trump/media/alt-right/et al.

How can I follow him when he doesn't have the ability to speak directly to me?

[Bluedan]

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

My point was the date Jan 16 and that Thailand took action early. Not about masks.

 

To split hairs. Physics tells us exactly how well any mask will work when worn properly. And they work well. Whether people wear them, also protect their eyes and clean their hands, or protest and expose themselves to risk is a behavioural and regulatory issue.

 

Clearly both are issues. But I often object to the poorly thought out comment that "masks don't work". Such comments can harm many who otherwise desire to take reasonable precaution when needed.

 

read again

I didn't say they don't work 

I said there is debate and there is ...research it 

read my comment again Im not making a big deal about masks but about lockdowns that is what is killing the economies of the world and causing collateral deaths

do you dispute that the lockdown occurred in late March 3 months after the virus came? The was my main point ...its not splitting hairs its an important fact 

[Shaunduhpostman]

Utter nonsense, the virus was over with back in June. Anyone can get info from numerous peer reviewed papers, articles written by actual doctors, virologists, epidemiologists etc that uphold a conclusion that COVID19 is not a threat and never has been to anyone except a few unlucky 80+ year olds with other co-morbidities.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Shaunduhpostman

[Magenta408]

Another Billy Goats recipient of expeet advice. If the people have become immune, why do they need a vaccine??

[Throatwobbler]

As usual with any thread about this has just turned into covid deniers taking over. A bunch of scientific illiterate expats who because they have seen the odd youtube video and seen a couple of graphs consider themselves now to be world leading experts. In fact they now consider themselves to know more than people who have dedicated their whole lives guys.

 

So well done i will not be back on here. You can continure to congratulate yourselves on your knowledge and how the whole thing is a scam. Meanwhile people around the world continue to die from this disease. But hey I guess I should be listening to a couple of old guys posting on TV rather than listening to real scientists.

[Pancho]

This gentleman is a tool

CDC reduced the danger to that of the common flu. The whole world knows this.

99.98 survival rate, easily treated with existing medications.

 

the rate of false positives is up around 80%.
it picks up any protein from the flu family.

the drums from the villagers are getting louder.

[Chongalulu]

5 hours ago, simon43 said:

Yes I have.  But here in Laos there have been no deaths from Covid and only about 22 cases, most of which have recovered and left hospital.  Nothing in my lifestyle has changed at all, with the exception of postponing a shopping trip to Bangkok.  I always wore a mask when entering shops anyway (I don't to spread any kind of airborne pathogen and don't want those from others).  Many people in the shops do likewise.

 

So no consideration or understanding of the medium ,long term economic effects of shut borders,closed down tourist industries on both a local and global level. That WILL eventually effect your lifestyle.

[Peter Denis]

12 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

As usual with any thread about this has just turned into covid deniers taking over. A bunch of scientific illiterate expats who because they have seen the odd youtube video and seen a couple of graphs consider themselves now to be world leading experts. In fact they now consider themselves to know more than people who have dedicated their whole lives guys.

 

So well done i will not be back on here. You can continue to congratulate yourselves on your knowledge and how the whole thing is a scam. Meanwhile people around the world continue to die from this disease. But hey I guess I should be listening to a couple of old guys posting on TV rather than listening to real scientists.

Congrats, you are a Runner-Up in the Most Condescending Post of the Year contest.

[polpott]

1 minute ago, nchuckle said:

So no consideration or understanding of the medium ,long term economic effects of shut borders,closed down tourist industries on both a local and global level. That WILL eventually effect your lifestyle.

I really can't see how it would affect my lifestyle. I would say that my lifestyle is better now than before Covid. Cost of some things in my budget have reduced.

[Bluedan]

16 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

As usual with any thread about this has just turned into covid deniers taking over. A bunch of scientific illiterate expats who because they have seen the odd youtube video and seen a couple of graphs consider themselves now to be world leading experts. In fact they now consider themselves to know more than people who have dedicated their whole lives guys.

 

So well done i will not be back on here. You can continure to congratulate yourselves on your knowledge and how the whole thing is a scam. Meanwhile people around the world continue to die from this disease. But hey I guess I should be listening to a couple of old guys posting on TV rather than listening to real scientists.

in other words anyone who disagrees with you is a COVID denier 

in other words the news source you chose is the best one..keep watching CNN and MSNBC then notice who's paying since every second advert is by big Pharma 

in other words only the scientists advising Trump and Johnson are worthy 

in other words you have run out of arguments 

in other words Dr Hennegan, Gupta, Yeadon Nobel prize winner Levitt and others according to you are not real scientists

[Bluedan]

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

I really can't see how it would affect my lifestyle. I would say that my lifestyle is better now than before Covid. Cost of some things in my budget have reduced.

maybe not you personally although it may be an eyesore to see people begging or in charity food queues 

[polpott]

1 minute ago, Bluedan said:

maybe not you personally although it may be an eyesore to see people begging or in charity food queues 

i was helping out with the food queues during lockdown. Not a problem.

[KhunFred]

6 hours ago, mr mr said:

now that is quite the jump you made. maybe try again ? 

It's less a matter of Covid denial and more a matter of refusing to let them use Covid to control your life in perpetuity. That is the goal.

[Chongalulu]

3 minutes ago, polpott said:

I really can't see how it would affect my lifestyle. I would say that my lifestyle is better now than before Covid. Cost of some things in my budget have reduced.

Your understanding is akin to the guy who falls from a skyscraper and is heard to say as he passes each floor , 'so far so good'. ???? 

You May be insulated compared to say the unemployed hotel worker,but when you become surrounded by many more that have been effected ,directly or indirectly ,the wide ranging knock on effects of upsetting the delicate economic imbalance can be very wide ranging. 

[polpott]

1 minute ago, nchuckle said:

Your understanding is akin to the guy who falls from a skyscraper and is heard to say as he passes each floor , 'so far so good'. ???? 

You May be insulated compared to say the unemployed hotel worker,but when you become surrounded by many more that have been effected ,directly or indirectly ,the wide ranging knock on effects of upsetting the delicate economic imbalance can be very wide ranging. 

Trust me, not for me.

 

The poorer people around me get, the richer I get. Not that I would want or advocate that, its just a fact.

[Bluedan]

7 minutes ago, polpott said:

i was helping out with the food queues during lockdown. Not a problem.

well good for you. So I assume you are a compassionate person and despite being ok for now you empathize with the despair of others 

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, Miami007 said:

The concept of herd immunity is being debunked in the USA. 

 

Basically,  the 2 years timeline is the same as the Spanish Flu 100 years ago.  No vaccines back then and no border closures but masks recommended. 

The lockdowns reduced R, which means it'll take longer than Spanish Flu. As long as R>1, the virus will keep spreading. The effect of the measures is to lengthen the time it takes for the virus to play out. So, likely more than 2 years. The IFR seems to be dropping though.

[polpott]

1 minute ago, Bluedan said:

well good for you. So I assume you are a compassionate person and despite being ok for now you empathize with the despair of others 

Absolutely. My village had food giveaways during the lockdown. My wife instigated them.I gave around 1k baht each time (i suspect more). Now if I spend time with a girl in a bar, I will tip 200 as opposed to 100 before. Its good to give. Buddha likes me.