What is it with the low quality of LED bulbs?

[KannikaP]

On 11/7/2020 at 2:02 PM, moontang said:

is your system overloaded?  is it properly grounded?  

 

I replaced my can lamps with sealed Panasonic LED...great for the vision impaired..a bit to bright for me.

Light fittings are never earthed/grounded.

[sometimewoodworker]

22 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Light fittings are never earthed/grounded.

That is not true, some are.

[KannikaP]

Just now, sometimewoodworker said:

That is not true, some are.

Sorry, MOST light fittings, and possibly sockets and entire houses, are quite often not earthed.   LOL

[Susco]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

25 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Light fittings are never earthed/grounded.

That is not true, some are.

 

Yes I think light fitting which you can touch, like desk light or standing floor lamp. should be earthed.

 

I don't see why a ceiling light should be earthed

[KannikaP]

2 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

Yes I think light fitting which you can touch, like desk light or standing floor lamp. should be earthed.

 

I don't see why a ceiling light should be earthed

Desk light with a 3 pin plug....never seen.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

Yes I think light fitting which you can touch, like desk light or standing floor lamp. should be earthed.

 

I don't see why a ceiling light should be earthed

Certainly the U.K. disagrees with that. All lighting circuits are required to have an earth, though depending on the exact fitting it may not have an earth connection.

[Susco]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Certainly the U.K. disagrees with that. All lighting circuits are required to have an earth, though depending on the exact fitting it may not have an earth connection.

 

I suggest we don't consider UK requirements as a world standard for anything.

 

You know of any other countries that have this requirement?

[petermik]

7 hours ago, Susco said:

 

I suggest we don't consider UK requirements as a world standard for anything.

 

You know of any other countries that have this requirement?

All the sensible ones.....

[Susco]

1 minute ago, petermik said:

All the sensible ones.....

So you don't know any. Thanks

[sometimewoodworker]

28 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

I suggest we don't consider UK requirements as a world standard for anything.

Why not? You have a desire for less safety?

 

41 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Sorry, MOST light fittings, and possibly sockets and entire houses, are quite often not earthed.   LOL

So you would like to say that the way village Thai electrical fitter system is somehow better or any version of correct!?

[sometimewoodworker]

38 minutes ago, Susco said:

You know of any other countries that have this requirement?

Australia.

[sometimewoodworker]

46 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Desk light with a 3 pin plug....never seen.

Either double insulated or earthed, your lack of knowledge seems quite comprehensive ???? 

[3STTW]

There are two ways to drive LED arrays, the best uses a pulsed signal driver and the second simply chokes the current.

Plan A is good because even though the LED’s are being switched on and off at high(ish) frequency, it’s only the on time that counts against their overall lifetime.

Plan B is bad because the LED is on all the time and it creates a lot of heat dissipation such that the circuit will eventually cook itself to death (planned obsolescence).

Then there’s a part of the circuit that converts 220VAC to the working voltage of the LED array, there are good ways of doing it and cheap ways of doing it.
Here’s a thing, when 90% of LED lamps die it’s almost always the driver circuit at fault while the actual LED’s are fine.

Unfortunately, as a consumer, you can never know the difference and even a branded product may have a very limited lifetime, which is sh!tty value for money and bad news for the planet.

[impulse]

2 hours ago, The Theory said:

Use this type if it fits. 
It won't overheat and long life. 
 

 

 

 

A few years back, I installed a few of that style in my Asoke apartment, and over the next few months I kept finding half globes of plastic on my floor.  Then one day I was at home when one of them popped with a bang and bounced around the room.  I went back to the CFL's (which have their own known safety and reliability issues). I figured it was probably voltage surges in Thailand, but I'm not having any better luck back in Texas where I'm currently staying as a Covid refugee.  They just don't seem to hold up under temperature.  Though I haven't had one lose structural integrity in the 110V USA, they seem to burn out pretty sporadically.

 

There are several YouTube autopsies showing what components are at risk in that type of LED bulb.  Interesting to watch the teardowns and analysis...

 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Susco said:

1 hour ago, petermik said:

All the sensible ones.....

So you don't know any. Thanks

 

I've installed/replaced a dozen light fixtures here in the USA in the past 2 years and every one of them has had an earth wire.

 

[Onrai]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Sorry, MOST light fittings, and possibly sockets and entire houses, are quite often not earthed.   LOL

They are required to be grounded to comply UL guidelines in the USA. I have spent 25 years designing, and manufacturing lighting fixtures and you better have a ground wire when the UL inspector comes a knockin.

 

[The Theory]

48 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

 

A few years back, I installed a few of that style in my Asoke apartment, and over the next few months I kept finding half globes of plastic on my floor.  Then one day I was at home when one of them popped with a bang and bounced around the room.  I went back to the CFL's (which have their own known safety and reliability issues). I figured it was probably voltage surges in Thailand, but I'm not having any better luck back in Texas where I'm currently staying as a Covid refugee.  They just don't seem to hold up under temperature.  Though I haven't had one lose structural integrity in the 110V USA, they seem to burn out pretty sporadically.

 

There are several YouTube autopsies showing what components are at risk in that type of LED bulb.  Interesting to watch the teardowns and analysis...

 

 
We used about 100 of this type in a restaurant. A few were defective and dimmed after a few months, but majority of them are on from dusk till down since 3 years ago and still look good.
 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by The Theory

[impulse]

14 minutes ago, The Theory said:

 We used about 100 of this type in a restaurant. A few were defective and dimmed after a few months, but majority of them are on from dusk till down since 3 years ago and still look good.

 

If you're having good luck with them, please post up the brand you're using.

 

[Onrai]

2 hours ago, Susco said:

I suggest we don't consider UK requirements as a world standard for anything.

 

You know of any other countries that have this requirement?

Ceiling hung pendant fixtures are required to have a ground wire to be UL certified. The most common electrical wire In pendants is 18/3 SPT-3. That translates to 18 gauge 3 wire - hot (black) , neutral (white) and ground (green).

[The Theory]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

If you're having good luck with them, please post up the brand you're using.

 

It's EVE , but this is 5 years old. Perhaps this particular model has been discontinued by now. 

[dieter1]

sorry, most what was written is just wrong.
No engineer for electric helping?
f.e.
UK : if an electric light is only built with plastic material - how can you earth it? (????)
solly

it is no problem, if it is intended (!!), to built a led light lasting for years. There is no technical reason, why the lifespan should be limited. You just need to built it properly. (extremely simple! )
f.e. heat: LED themselves does not(!!!) produce much heat. That is the reason why it is efficient (most energy leaves as light, not like conventional light , where most energy is low frequency radiation ("heat").
Of course it is possible to built it the way it gets hot and so destroying itself. If you want to limit the lifespan it is an easy way to go...

In today times, the way products are viewed are not a result of the "quality" of a product but instead it is the result of the advertising (older word for it is "propaganda"). Today the companies invest much more money in propaganda then in technically developing their products to a higher level. Developing products is mostly intended to built them cheaper or change the design.

The former discussion shows, that the vast majority are not able to get the knowledge to choose a high quality products. even, if they are interested in it. One reason is, that , despite the nearly endless quantity of information available, even for a simple product there seems limited access to reliable and help full information available.

So in the end, you have mostly consumers, who are just do not care or on the other side consumers, who are just fabricating fantasies of "knowledge" , being in the fantasy world of imagination of knowledge.

of course, this principle does apply to most subjects today (political competence, "common sense", ...


does using a search engine helps ?
fe: an "EXpert"
About Sarah Levison

"Sarah is a lighting expert at The Lightbulb Company with a background in hospitality and a keen awareness of the important role lighting plays in our everyday lives. She has worn many hats with us over the years, developing an extensive knowledge of lighting and the lighting industry. She is passionate about working with customers, understanding their needs, and providing them with the best solutions. "
just reading her "self- discription" says it all: she is just a propagandist. no need to read her text. There is no technical expertise.(I did read it)
I looked at the first 5 (!) pages of my search engine results: all is advertisement (propaganda). no surprise: f.e. google earns billions for placing your "side" in the beginning of of the search results. and, most of the internet content is just propaganda made for manipulating people to buy products (old word:"propaganda).Millions of people are being paid to produce this content and publicate this.

[bluejets]

In my experience as a lecky, failure of these so called long life LED bulbs is, as Crossy says, insufficient cooling.

Each of these fittings to operate on 220v ac or whatever require a driver or controller to operate.

When broken down to find failure cause, it is 99.9% the driver from overheat.

Most bulbs, this is an integral part whereas in other designs where the LEDs may be in a ring arrangement such as in oyster fittings, the driver is a seperate unit.

Whatever, the result and cause is the same and replacing just the driver is not an option.

The driver itself, if one manages to track one down, costs more than the complete fitting.

This whole LED light thing is really a foo fee compared to the old tungsten filament bulb.

The amount of energy cost it saves the householder is a pittance and the bulb costs 10 times more than the old ones and last, maybe 2 years.

Then one gets a lecky in to change the fitting in many cases at another high cost.

These LED manufacturers have been claiming a 15,000 hour lifespan since day one, but how would they have known at that stage beats me.

Just sales hike.

Edited November 8, 2020 by bluejets

[bodga]

Something  not mentioned and relevant  to Thailand is spikes in the  supply, I  fitted  voltage regulators to both my  incoming  supplies. After this failures  have been zero, before this they were  popping  monthly, Id  fit those before changing back to other  types   https://www.lazada.co.th/products/svp-916-adjustable-voltage-surge-protector-relay-limit-current-protection-i654896482-s1268452089.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.7.565c5f6f3ht3xQ&search=1 

[Onrai]

On 11/7/2020 at 1:26 PM, Susco said:

I have put Osram energy savings warm white lamps in them since new, and they have been in there for 6-7 years, and my other identical fans throughout the house still have them.

 

I only replaced them to replace with more powerful daylight LED's

By process of elimination it sounds like you may have a wiring problem.

1. If you have access to the “guts” of the fan check and see if all wire connectors are secure. Better yet undo the wire connectors and make sure the wires are in good condition and not shorting out.

2. Check for any cracked wiring that may be shorting against metal.

3. If you have a volt meter check to see if the metal shell is (what the light bulb screws into) is neutral. If wired correctly the shell is neutral and the small contact tab at the base of the socket is hot.

 Sometimes fixtures  get wired incorrectly.

I hope this helps.

[hotchilli]

On 11/7/2020 at 10:53 AM, Susco said:

On my perimeter wall I have 12 dirt cheap LED's from Aliexpress for the past 2 years, active 6 hours every day, and none of them had to be replaced yet.

 

Am I missing something here?

A lot depends on location... LED's can overheat and that reduces lifespan.

They need a well ventilated area...

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, dieter1 said:

sorry, most what was written is just wrong.

So you decided to add your misinformation?

 

6 hours ago, dieter1 said:

f.e. heat: LED themselves does not(!!!) produce much heat.

A common idea and Totally wrong. LEDs do, as you say, produce much more light than heat compared to other types, but once you get to the higher power units that are anything over  about 1 W they are producing significant amounts of heat and need really good cooling. The cheap power supplies also provide quite a lot of heat and the designs and component choices let them fail quite quickly.

 

A good 30 W led floodlight will have a big heat radiator as part of its case and that will get hot. Try touching a 1W chip after it’s been on for a few seconds, it will be hot enough to burn and that is with good heat sinking.

 

I f you want the hundreds of thousands of hours life, under run the LEDs by a lot and cool them very well.

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/7/2020 at 10:53 AM, Susco said:

In the ceiling fan of my office and the kitchen I switched to LED bulbs about 2 years ago. There are 2 bulbs in there

 

I started with the Sylvania stik-Pro because they were slim and guaranteed for 15.000 hours or about 15 years, yeah right

 

 

They lasted about 6 months at most, and I replaced them THREE times, purchased from different reputable shops.

 

I then switched to Phillips about 6 months ago, as I was tired climbing the ladder every few months, and the first one just went dark.

 

The fan lights are on for about 6-7 hours a day.

 

In the rest of the house I have Osram energy saving lights for the last 8 years, I guess about 40 in total, and I have to rarely replace one

 

On my perimeter wall I have 12 dirt cheap LED's from Aliexpress for the past 2 years, active 6 hours every day, and none of them had to be replaced yet.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

How much are you making out of this publicity????? 55555

[jomtienisgood]

4 hours ago, Onrai said:

By process of elimination it sounds like you may have a wiring problem.

1. If you have access to the “guts” of the fan check and see if all wire connectors are secure. Better yet undo the wire connectors and make sure the wires are in good condition and not shorting out.

2. Check for any cracked wiring that may be shorting against metal.

3. If you have a volt meter check to see if the metal shell is (what the light bulb screws into) is neutral. If wired correctly the shell is neutral and the small contact tab at the base of the socket is hot.

 Sometimes fixtures  get wired incorrectly.

I hope this helps.

NO, it doesn't.... 

[jomtienisgood]

15 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I've installed/replaced a dozen light fixtures here in the USA in the past 2 years and every one of them has had an earth wire.

 

OK, but what does the fact of being earthed or not have to do with life duration of a bulb ???????  

[Scott Tracy]

My LED  lights were installed about 18 months ago. I've had to replace 8 or 9 over a short time period. 240 baht each. The led big ceiling ring lights too, 4 of them. Loads of money. The light is used a lot in the kitchen, not so much elsewhere.

I bought some Toshiba's not long ago to see how long they would last. I ordered some 28 baht led 13 watt ones. They have an excuse to fail so quickly.....

In the UK, had loads of LED lights. They rarely failed after 10-11 years of use. So far, disappointing here.