UK PM Johnson's Brexit 'brain' Cummings to leave Downing Street

[Rookiescot]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

How quickly do you think they could start using the Euro after leaving the UK? 

 

Changing currency is a huge undertaking. Not as easy as a trip to SuperRich I'm afraid. They'd be using the pound for years, and subject to the interest rates and monetary policy that the Bank of England set for them.

 

No way around it. 

How did every other country which left the empire manage it?

Or is Scotland unique in that it is incapable of either starting its own currency or using the Euro?

 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/euro/use-euro/euro-outside-euro-area_en

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

How did every other country which left the empire manage it?

Or is Scotland unique in that it is incapable of either starting its own currency or using the Euro?

 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/euro/use-euro/euro-outside-euro-area_en

 

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was difficult and can take many years.

 

I assume that as a fiercely proud Scots nationalist so keen on an Independent Scotland that you wouldn't entertain the idea of using the Euro and having your monetary policy dictated by the European Central Bank?

 

That would hardly be Independent now, would it?

[Rookiescot]

48 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was difficult and can take many years.

 

I assume that as a fiercely proud Scots nationalist so keen on an Independent Scotland that you wouldn't entertain the idea of using the Euro and having your monetary policy dictated by the European Central Bank?

 

That would hardly be Independent now, would it?

Its a lot more independence than we currently have what with being shackled to an extreme right wing government in Westminster hell bent on a Brexit Scotland does not want.

[Phulublub]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Many of these products are already available. Australian and Chilean wine for example. Japanese and Korean cars. Now the competition for these EU equivalent products will be higher due to the increased levy on EU goods. If UK citizens still want to pay the extra for French wine that's OK, more tax for the UK government to collect and subsidize other UK industries as we see fit.

 

I've never known a Lexus perish due to sea transportation. But hey, the Germans don't need to sell luxury cars to the UK do they?

 

In fact, not much of this is perishable? But hey, the EU doesn't need to sell this stuff.

 

 

I knew what I was voting for.

 

 

Brillaint cherry picking there.

 

EU exports of food to the UK total in the region of £40 billion, so if included as a single category in your table would be second.  That they are split into various others and thus none make your top ten is somewhat irrelevent.

 

I completely agree that a Lexus is unlikely to suffer from sea transportation.  Never said it would.  But then trying to divert from the original thrust is an all too common trait.  I much prefer to try and discuss using useful and relevent facts.

 

I wonder how many of the Japanese cars you mention are actually manufactured in the UK, alongside many others that the Japanese companies wish to export to Europe.   The volume and value of car parts transitting the Single Market without red tape is huge - introducing even tiny delays or costs will markedly change the landscape and could see several car plants relocate to the EU where these costs will contune to be zero - and the finished product will no be subject to any tariff.

 

It is also rather sad that you seem to think that in addition to increased prices becuase of red tape, delays etc, the UK consumer should be celebrating that the UK Exchequor can add even more to their shopping bills by increasing the tax take.  Still all the extra customs officials will have to be paid for somehow.

 

PH

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Brillaint cherry picking there.

 

EU exports of food to the UK total in the region of £40 billion, so if included as a single category in your table would be second.  That they are split into various others and thus none make your top ten is somewhat irrelevent.

 

I completely agree that a Lexus is unlikely to suffer from sea transportation.  Never said it would.  But then trying to divert from the original thrust is an all too common trait.  I much prefer to try and discuss using useful and relevent facts.

 

I wonder how many of the Japanese cars you mention are actually manufactured in the UK, alongside many others that the Japanese companies wish to export to Europe.   The volume and value of car parts transitting the Single Market without red tape is huge - introducing even tiny delays or costs will markedly change the landscape and could see several car plants relocate to the EU where these costs will contune to be zero - and the finished product will no be subject to any tariff.

 

It is also rather sad that you seem to think that in addition to increased prices becuase of red tape, delays etc, the UK consumer should be celebrating that the UK Exchequor can add even more to their shopping bills by increasing the tax take.  Still all the extra customs officials will have to be paid for somehow.

 

PH

 

The UK will easily be able to import food and drink from outside the EU. They already do. New Zealand lamb, Australian beef, Chilean wine, American fruit, veg and beverages etc. These transport and import procedures are already in place and working very well. Not to mention the foodstuffs that are currently produced in the UK and exported to the EU which could just as easily be consumed domestically instead if tariffs are in place. 

 

If the EU wants to make their products less competitive with tax levies on their huge trade surplus with the UK then let them fill their boots. UK consumers will buy elsewhere and European businesses will suffer. The EU knows this, which is why they were on the next flight over when the UK announced it was walking away from the talks.

 

The huge trade surplus that the EU enjoys means that the UK government will be collecting a lot more taxes than the EU will. If we don't sign up to state aid rules in the event of No Deal we can use that money to subsidize any industries that have teething problems from a No Deal scenario.

 

Like I said, the EU is not the only shop in the village and they know it.

[transam]

44 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Its a lot more independence than we currently have what with being shackled to an extreme right wing government in Westminster hell bent on a Brexit Scotland does not want.

You Scottish nationalists would complain whatever party was in control, and you even want to be controlled by the Germans, soooooo funny...????

[luckyluke]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

my point remains that it's not 2 Euros per head, it's 1666 Euros per man, woman and child. 

1666 Euros seems is a lot.

 

Belgium has since innumerable years a colossal debt, is  actually 460 billion, there are about 11.5 million inhabitants in Belgium, that must be a lot per head.

 

I just checked the U.K., the actual debt seems to be 2 trillion Pounds, I don't know how much that represent by head.

 

Pretty sure most country worldwide have such gigantic debt, but I don't know if those figures have a really impact on the daily life of the man in the street. 

 

 

 

[luckyluke]

24 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

UK consumers will buy elsewhere and European businesses will suffer. The EU knows this, which is why they were on the next flight over when the UK announced it was walking away from the talks.

I suppose the U.K., just like the E.U., still hope to get some satisfaction from a deal, and so prefer to continue the negotiations, or it will have said to Mr. Barnier :

 "no need to take a flight, we are done here".

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Its a lot more independence than we currently have what with being shackled to an extreme right wing government in Westminster hell bent on a Brexit Scotland does not want.

 

Why not create your own currency and go it alone? I thought you wanted to be Independent?

 

 

[JonnyF]

57 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

1666 Euros seems is a lot.

 

Belgium has since innumerable years a colossal debt, is  actually 460 billion, there are about 11.5 million inhabitants in Belgium, that must be a lot per head.

 

I just checked the U.K., the actual debt seems to be 2 trillion Pounds, I don't know how much that represent by head.

 

Pretty sure most country worldwide have such gigantic debt, but I don't know if those figures have a really impact on the daily life of the man in the street. 

 

 

 

 

It certainly is a lot in one go. Great news for the net recipients like Poland and Romania of course. They'll be rubbing their hands together.

 

Not so good for the net contributors like Netherlands and Belgium, but that's the rules of the wealth transfer scheme formally known as the EU. If you want the privilege of being ruled by the EU commission, you have to pay the price.

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

If you want the privilege of being ruled by the EU commission, you have to pay the price.

That's my  concern, and sure for others too, 

 

The E.U. has never concretely influenced my daily life;

 

will it now? or again not ?

 

One can speculate negatively or positively.

 

Sure is,

We will have to wait and see.

 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Why not create your own currency and go it alone? I thought you wanted to be Independent?

 

 

 

We might do. It will be up to us Scots.

Nothing you guys need to concern yourself with. 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

We might do. It will be up to us Scots.

Nothing you guys need to concern yourself with. 

 

You might do? ????

 

There's no need to keep up this pretense. We both know that's not what the Scottish Nationalists want. You'd rather be ruled by Brussels than Westminster. Simple as that. You'll be begging them to let you in. And beg you most certainly will, given their rules on government deficit (below 3% of GDP) and government debt below 60%, both of which you will fail by some distance.

 

It's ironic that you criticize Brexiteers for truly wanting Independence and sovereignty for the UK. At the same time you pretend to want the same for Scotland while secretly dreaming of being lorded over by the EU Commission. 

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

You might do? ????

 

There's no need to keep up this pretense. We both know that's not what the Scottish Nationalists want. You'd rather be ruled by Brussels than Westminster. Simple as that. You'll be begging them to let you in. And beg you most certainly will, given their rules on government deficit (below 3% of GDP) and government debt below 60%, both of which you will fail by some distance.

 

It's ironic that you criticize Brexiteers for truly wanting Independence and sovereignty for the UK. At the same time you pretend to want the same for Scotland while secretly dreaming of being lorded over by the EU Commission. 

So you're saying being controlled by the English is better than having a say in the EU, where many countries have a voice.

[transam]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

So you're saying being controlled by the English is better than having a say in the EU, where many countries have a voice.

"Controlled by the English", I thought parliament was controlled by MP's from the union countries, which can change at any election....

So you reckon, say Romainia, is really taken notice of.... ????

[CorpusChristie]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So you're saying being controlled by the English is better than having a say in the EU, where many countries have a voice.

 

   Westminster is the " the English" , Westminster is made up of Scottish, N.I. . Welsh and English Politicians 

 

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   Westminster is the " the English" , Westminster is made up of Scottish, N.I. . Welsh and English Politicians 

 

Look at the brexit results, a major factor in this renewed scottish push for independence.

 

I would say only the English say they are not dominating the UK.

Edited November 17, 2020 by stevenl

[transam]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Look at the brexit results, a major factor in this renewed scottish push for independence.

 

I would say only the English say they are not dominating the UK.

And you are Scot, Welsh, N.Irish or English...?

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

And you are Scot, Welsh, N.Irish or English...?

Totally irrelevant post.

[transam]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Totally irrelevant post.

Really, so me trying to look into your posts perspective is irrelevant....????

[evadgib]

15 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Look at the brexit results, a major factor in this renewed scottish push for independence.

 

I would say only the English say they are not dominating the UK.

The English or rather their constitution has been under attack for years. Why do you think they are the only country in Europe without a parliament and being targeted to being carved up into regions?

Thankfully many are waking up but it's taken time...

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The English or rather their constitution has been under attack for years. Why do you think they are the only country in Europe without a parliament and being targeted to being carved up into regions?

Thankfully many are waking up but it's taken time...

The English are being targeted to being carved up into regions?

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

Really, so me trying to look into your posts perspective is irrelevant....????

Yes, you got that right. 

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

So you're saying being controlled by the English is better than having a say in the EU, where many countries have a voice.

 

Um no that's not what I'm saying. That's what you are claiming I am saying in order to attack a point that I never actually made ????. A classic Strawman. None too subtle either.

 

You are aware that members of the SNP such as Ian BlackFord are members of the House of Commons?

 

If Scottish Nationalists wanted true Independence then I would respect that, even though I would argue it would be extremely harmful to Scotland. However, they don't actually want Independence, they want to be lorded over by the EU. I guarantee that if they ever leave the UK, before their feet even touched the ground they'd be begging the EU to take them under their protective wing as another net recipient. I just wish they would be more honest about it.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

The English are being targeted to being carved up into regions?

Yes, as explained by this map:

(Note the absence of ???????????????????????????? or a Parliament to fairly represent the population)

[fangless]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

So you're saying being controlled by the English is better than having a say in the EU, where many countries have a voice.

Having a voice and having a say are two different things.

 

Once the UK leaves the EU an "Independent" Scotland  if it ever is stupid enough to try it, will never be allowed to join the EU.  They can never meet the fiscal requirements as stated above and politically they will never be allowed in.  It needs a unanimous vote by all the present members to agree entry.  There are many EU countries in the EU who will never back a "breakaway country/region" being admitted to the EU due to their own internal "separatist regions".  Spain is a classic example of a veto country in waiting!

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Why not create your own currency and go it alone? I thought you wanted to be Independent?

 

 

It might be a good idea for you to read the history of the Scottish and their part in the ‘British Pound’.

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

 

If Scottish Nationalists wanted true Independence then I would respect that, even though I would argue it would be extremely harmful to Scotland. However, they don't actually want Independence, they want to be lorded over by the EU. I guarantee that if they ever leave the UK, before their feet even touched the ground they'd be begging the EU to take them under their protective wing as another net recipient. I just wish they would be more honest about it.

 

So you will only respect the democratic will of a group of people on the condition that you agree with what they wish for? That is not democracy. 

[RuamRudy]

16 minutes ago, fangless said:

Having a voice and having a say are two different things.

 

Once the UK leaves the EU an "Independent" Scotland  if it ever is stupid enough to try it, will never be allowed to join the EU.  They can never meet the fiscal requirements as stated above and politically they will never be allowed in.  It needs a unanimous vote by all the present members to agree entry.  There are many EU countries in the EU who will never back a "breakaway country/region" being admitted to the EU due to their own internal "separatist regions".  Spain is a classic example of a veto country in waiting!

 

Oh, so much misinformation dressed up as insight. 

Why would an independent Scotland fail to meet fiscal requirements?

Which countries would object to Scotland joining the EU? Note that the 'classic example' has been debunked so many times, you betray how little you know when you posit it. 

 

Tusk: EU would be enthusiastic if Scotland applied to rejoin

Spanish government confirms no EU veto for an independent Scotland

[stevenl]

23 minutes ago, fangless said:

Having a voice and having a say are two different things.

 

Once the UK leaves the EU an "Independent" Scotland  if it ever is stupid enough to try it, will never be allowed to join the EU.  They can never meet the fiscal requirements as stated above and politically they will never be allowed in.  It needs a unanimous vote by all the present members to agree entry.  There are many EU countries in the EU who will never back a "breakaway country/region" being admitted to the EU due to their own internal "separatist regions".  Spain is a classic example of a veto country in waiting!

That decision, and maybe rejection by the EU, should really be to the Scots, nobody else.