Unpopular Opinion: I appreciate the immigration policies here

[Bangkok Barry]

12 hours ago, fishtank said:

I grudge having to have 400,000 in the bank when a foreign woman married to a Thai man has to have zero in the bank.

Shear discrimination.

I begrudge having to have 400,000 in the bank when a Thai person doesn't. Sheer discrimination.

But that's just me.

[TKDfella]

Whoa, there OP. Let's get this clear. We are talking about expats aren't we...the yearly extension etc.? Yet you say you wouldn't like Thailand to become like other countries. What is that supposed to mean? That their policies have Thailand in mind? What kind of reflection is that upon expats here...you wouldn't like to see more of the same? Don't you think if immigration were to extend the 'hand of friendship', like instead of every year extension say every two or three. Even perhaps reward those who have stayed, for say ten years (or fifteen), without problems, with a five year extension with the same conditions as for one year, wouldn't that be an incentive to remain a law abiding expat? What possible harm could that do to Thailand.

[somtumwrong]

20 hours ago, 2009 said:

Yeah, basically as the title says.

 

People think it is too strict. Having to renew the visa every year. Employment limited to a few jobs.

 

But really, their immigration policy has Thailand in mind. They do it cos it is best for their own country.

 

I wouldn't want to see Thailand become like some western countries. Recent events in France spring to mind.

 

I like Thailand the way it is and wouldn't want it to be overrun and changed by migrants.

 

Not that those types of migrants would come here anyway cos there is no social security, but still....I think it is worthwhile having an immigration like Thailand's. 

 

If it means I need to do an extension every year, so be it.

Another highly unpopular opinion to extend yours: I have been to Germany and Sweden and looked at the same. Just insane how insecure and incoherent their countries have become, still we are lecturing them about how they should arrange immigration, how they should handle societies, yet we are becoming basket case countries (just look at the US election, the European terrorism, the insane accumulation of deb in the westt.) And why is that? Because we elect populist politicians (meaning the well established main stream parties that just promise money around for decades.) So even though I'm not very "excited" about the current form of Thai government, maybe I'm wrong, and semi-dictatorship is a better way of taking care of the country. Well, then you get all sorts of other issues like "disappearing people" and "people you need to bow to" and corruption, pollution. But in the end, in 50 years there is still a Thailand but in 20 years there is no UK, Germany or France anymore. So perhaps we should stop lecturing the Thais and let them decide on their own what is best.

[Bradmeister]

Im guessing the OP is an immigration officer?

 

The every year re-newal is a waste of time, effort and resources. 

 

Don't even get me started on the trees, and how much paper is needlessly printed and wasted.

 

We should be on par with e-filing/extensions many years ago.

 

Its the corruption, lack of transparency, and the allegation "that they don't have the tech" and yet every international Airport and land crossing (as well as sea) has a video camera, still camera and palm and finger scanner. 

 

I finally read (with relief) that 5 ambassadors finally said; enough is enough: Posted on The US State Department was the Ten for Ten Policy for Thailand to get with The World's economy and International system's from Harmonized Shipping Codes, to Standard E commerce and Immigration Practices.

 

Let's get on with our lives, without having to "check in", or even report back to base once a year. 

 

A Passport Scan,  PDF FILE .and a local bank debit card over a secured website. DONE

 

Were Retired or Working, pay taxes, pay rent, mortgages, and car payments just like everyone else who lives here.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by onthedarkside
King reference removed

[ItoroK]

A positive side effect of those immigration policies it that somehow thailand is protected, but its not what they are made for.

 

The main aim of those policies is to humiliate foreigners, spend your money enjoy yourself but don't dare to feel home. The whole thai-economic model is to milk boomers that worked hard and made good money trough the property market in the western world. 

 

Please dont feel flattered that you somehow fit the target audience of some economic elite in SEA that make billions on your back.

[somtumwrong]

6 minutes ago, ItoroK said:

A positive side effect of those immigration policies it that somehow thailand is protected, but its not what they are made for.

 

The main aim of those policies is to humiliate foreigners, spend your money enjoy yourself but don't dare to feel home. The whole thai-economic model is to milk boomers that worked hard and made good money trough the property market in the western world. 

 

Please dont feel flattered that you somehow fit the target audience of some economic elite in SEA that make billions on your back.

You tink too mutt. They don't plan that much, really.

[khunPer]

15 hours ago, fishtank said:

I grudge having to have 400,000 in the bank when a foreign woman married to a Thai man has to have zero in the bank.

Shear discrimination.

The man is considered as the provider, just like it was in old time in Western countries.

[AverageBloke]

5 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

It is basically a 4-6 year process to obtain the residency/citizenship for others. She might have been able to work but not the rest.

I've recently looked into permanent residency for my gf and I was also told that it would take 2 years. 

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

5 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

Bangkok would be a lot more fun with larger numbers of working expats, especially more Western women.  If this place was more like Hong Kong or Singapore in terms of expats everywhere it would be fabulous.

Many western expats are in Thailand precisely because they were rejected for copulating by breeding age western females because of their inferior genes and/or personality traits.  Don't be surprised if you get a lot of sad or confused reactions.

[ujayujay]

On 11/15/2020 at 11:12 PM, 2009 said:

Yeah, basically as the title says.

 

People think it is too strict. Having to renew the visa every year. Employment limited to a few jobs.

 

But really, their immigration policy has Thailand in mind. They do it cos it is best for their own country.

 

I wouldn't want to see Thailand become like some western countries. Recent events in France spring to mind.

 

I like Thailand the way it is and wouldn't want it to be overrun and changed by migrants.

 

Not that those types of migrants would come here anyway cos there is no social security, but still....I think it is worthwhile having an immigration like Thailand's. 

 

If it means I need to do an extension every year, so be it.

Dream on, little dreamer......

[fakser]

On 11/15/2020 at 6:54 PM, Airalee said:

I don’t mind the annual reporting...for me it’s pretty painless with the 800k in the bank method.  The 90 day reports are pretty lame but hey...it’s only a ฿1-2000 fine for forgetting to do it.  I save time, government gets paid.  Win-win.  The TM-28 (or was it TM30) was ridiculous.  Glad they got rid of that for in country travel.
 

That being said, I think that beyond having health insurance, the income approach to retirement visa renewals really shouldn’t have an income requirement that is any higher than the government schools are willing to pay foreign teachers.

The 90 days report is no issue. I do it by registered mail and it works flawlessly

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, fakser said:

The 90 days report is no issue. I do it by registered mail and it works flawlessly

Glad it works for you.  The ฿1000 fine worked flawlessly for me too when I recently extended my visa.  Saved me a trip to the post office too.  Horses for courses.

[fishtank]

8 hours ago, khunPer said:

The man is considered as the provider, just like it was in old time in Western countries.

Third world out dated thinking.

One of this countries problems.

[canuckamuck]

Saying Thailand's policies are good by comparing them to other countries that throw open the borders to folks who threw away their passport on the way in, is not a reasonable way of looking at things. There are some things Thailand does right, and then there are some things that seem designed only to generate paperwork and create jobs. Folks who have stayed out of trouble and have been married to the same woman for ten years, should by that time get some consideration for residency, or a five year visa at least, especially if there are children involved.

Most countries respect the marriages of their citizens. Why are Thai male's marriages considered genuine while Thai female's marriages are treated as a minor dalliance. Surely a case by case approach would be better than across the board discrimination.

Edited November 17, 2020 by canuckamuck

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

Saying Thailand's policies are good by comparing them to other countries that throw open the borders to folks who threw away their passport on the way in, is not a reasonable way of looking at things. There are some things Thailand does right, and then there are some things that seem designed only to generate paperwork and create jobs. Folks who have stayed out of trouble and have been married to the same woman for ten years, should by that time get some consideration for residency, or a five year visa at least, especially if there are children involved.

Most countries respect the marriages of their citizens. Why are Thai male's marriages considered genuine while Thai female's marriages are treated as a minor dalliance. Surely a case by case approach would be better than across the board discrimination.

I most certainly agree that married expats should get consideration...but what do they actually get? If they do extension via the marriage method it is more complicated than retirement. The incentive there is clear. Via marriage, 400K in the bank, more documentation, via retirement 800K in the bank less hassle. Shouldn't it be the other way round?That alone shows that all immigration thinks about more money in their banks.

[fishtank]

18 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

I most certainly agree that married expats should get consideration...but what do they actually get? If they do extension via the marriage method it is more complicated than retirement. The incentive there is clear. Via marriage, 400K in the bank, more documentation, via retirement 800K in the bank less hassle. Shouldn't it be the other way round?That alone shows that all immigration thinks about more money in their banks.

Married Female expats need very little paperwork and nothing in the bank.

Bizzare.

[TKDfella]

7 minutes ago, fishtank said:

Married Female expats need very little paperwork and nothing in the bank.

Bizzare.

Ha, I was not aware of that. Not mentioned in the requirements...or am I looking in the wrong place?

[ubonjoe]

30 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Ha, I was not aware of that. Not mentioned in the requirements...or am I looking in the wrong place?

The financial proof is not mentioned in the immigration order at all unless it is for the "alien husband".

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

[Wongkitlo]

15 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

It is basically a 4-6 year process to obtain the residency/citizenship for others. She might have been able to work but not the rest.

She applied late 2013. Had the PR by late 2015. Maybe it takes longer now.

[GreasyFingers]

42 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said:

She applied late 2013. Had the PR by late 2015. Maybe it takes longer now.

If you are interested have a look at times quoted at the Immigration website. Happy for you, but not the same for us.

[seancbk]

You all seem to forget that Thailand's immigration rules are not just defined to take into account Western expats, they are for all immigrants and that of course includes people from countries who once they get a foot in the door (so to speak) may very likely use that to get a lot of their family members in.

The Thai authorities may not be be worried about Bert Blogs from the UK retiring here and then having 20 of his extended family claim the right to live here because dear old Bert does, but I suspect they are concerned about that happening with people from certain neighboring countries. 

It's the same as work permits, the rules are not made to make it difficult for a handful of highly skilled, highly educated Western expats, but rather to stop thousand of cheap labour flooding in from over the border.

[canuckamuck]

47 minutes ago, seancbk said:

You all seem to forget that Thailand's immigration rules are not just defined to take into account Western expats, they are for all immigrants and that of course includes people from countries who once they get a foot in the door (so to speak) may very likely use that to get a lot of their family members in.

The Thai authorities may not be be worried about Bert Blogs from the UK retiring here and then having 20 of his extended family claim the right to live here because dear old Bert does, but I suspect they are concerned about that happening with people from certain neighboring countries. 

It's the same as work permits, the rules are not made to make it difficult for a handful of highly skilled, highly educated Western expats, but rather to stop thousand of cheap labour flooding in from over the border.

A little profiling would fix that right up, but that is racist of course.

[somtumwrong]

4 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Saying Thailand's policies are good by comparing them to other countries that throw open the borders to folks who threw away their passport on the way in, is not a reasonable way of looking at things. There are some things Thailand does right, and then there are some things that seem designed only to generate paperwork and create jobs. Folks who have stayed out of trouble and have been married to the same woman for ten years, should by that time get some consideration for residency, or a five year visa at least, especially if there are children involved.

Most countries respect the marriages of their citizens. Why are Thai male's marriages considered genuine while Thai female's marriages are treated as a minor dalliance. Surely a case by case approach would be better than across the board discrimination.

It's not that simple. Go to any country and tell you are married to a Thai, and guess what their first thought is? Yes, unfortunately they think that the woman is a bar girl, prostitute or some rice farmer from the jungle. Most (serious) Thai guys would not marry a bar girl, hence them looking at us (not me) doing exactly that waters down the concept of marriage to a foreigner in their eyes, no matter how lovely, serious or true the bride is. We also mostly prefer the "Thai" looking women, not the "Chinese" looking women, while the Thai prefer the opposite, making them think that we are not serious. Thais think very black and white in these matters.

[ChrisY1]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:30 AM, steve187 said:

yes i believe the both should be treated equally,  other than that i feel the immigration rules are ok, easy for the people they want and expensive and  rule bending for the people they don't really want here long term.

edit i do believe retirement yearly extension holders should be allowed to return.

2 Danish guys I know returned yesterday...now in quarantine for 2 weeks....so they're coming back now

 

[connda]

14 hours ago, Bradmeister said:

I finally read (with relief) that 5 ambassadors finally said; enough is enough: Posted on The US State Department was the Ten for Ten Policy for Thailand to get with The World's economy and International system's from Harmonized Shipping Codes, to Standard E commerce and Immigration Practices.

Can you provide the link for those statements by "5 ambassadors finally said enough is enough?"  A "Ten of Ten Policy for Thailand?"
I don't see anything like that on the State Dept website.

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:15 AM, fishtank said:

I grudge having to have 400,000 in the bank when a foreign woman married to a Thai man has to have zero in the bank.

Shear discrimination.

How many of them are there???? Consider the 400,000 as a saving for bad times....And don't complain too much; Many people cannot put 400,000 on a bank account.....

[Neeranam]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:15 AM, fishtank said:

I grudge having to have 400,000 in the bank when a foreign woman married to a Thai man has to have zero in the bank.

Shear discrimination.

There's a good reason for this. How many women find their Thai husbands in the Pink Pussy bar?

[TKDfella]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The financial proof is not mentioned in the immigration order at all unless it is for the "alien husband".

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

Oh, right.

[Neeranam]

20 hours ago, moogradod said:

Absolutely correct. My Thai wife got her Permanent Residency in Switzerland after 5 years. Took about 5 Minutes plus waiting some days for the plastic card. I think not even a bankbook should be required. Who cares how one makes a living as long as you are not breaking any laws - stealing, working etc.

I applied for Thai citizenship in Dec 2017 and took the oath of Allegiance in July this year. It's much easier for me to get citizenship in Thailand, after they changed the law in 2008 for sexual equality. Also, cost me 5000 baht, much cheaper than other countries. 

[jomtienisgood]

13 hours ago, AverageBloke said:

I've recently looked into permanent residency for my gf and I was also told that it would take 2 years. 

As far as I know it takes average 3-5 years ( mine 4 1/2 ) But you also have to realize you get a new ' under consideration extension' every 6 months free of cost during that period and no queues as separate counters.